The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%
  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%

  • Total voters
    738
I agree that the Grand Tour isn't about multi-culturalism, but I don't think it's a necessity to prevent civil war - Frederick never did it and by and large he gets along with them.
That's not entirely related though. Frederick was a bureaucrat who dealt with tons of different worlds on a daily basis before he became governor. Syr has no such experience to draw from.
I agree that it's not too big of a deal though. We can do without it, just as is the case for any of the education options.
 
Last edited:
I agree that the Grand Tour isn't about multi-culturalism, but I don't think it's a necessity to prevent civil war - Frederick never did it and by and large he gets along with them.
Indeed.

It would be multiculturalism if we sent here there specifically to become more like the planets she would visit, but if she's just going to learn the basic culture and make contacts in the governments, then that is not multiculturalism and is a good thing for any leader.
 
That's not entirely related though. Frederick was a bureaucrat who dealt with tons of different worlds on a daily basis before he became governor. Syr has no such experience to draw from.
I agree that it's not too big of a deal though. We can do without it, just as is the case for any of the education options.

Frederick dealt with other worlds as an Administratum guy, which is a very different experience. He was basically the tax man. Also, remember his Diplomacy score used to be quite low.
 
It's a decent thing, but at the end of the day the Imperial Trust is a stable enough institution that it actively doesn't need a diplomancer to actively maintain it. Avernus has decent ties, and is a quirky but valued member of it. How does the Grand Tour change that? How does wining and dining with the Aesir help Avernus? How does watching Knight Tourneys on Asgard help with that? Networking? Contacts? This may surprise you- but we don't necessarily need to know what all the other members in this confederacy are thinking- because every single Confederacy member has a vested interest in making this work. There's a lot of inertia behind the Trust at this point, it's been tried and tested, and it's been made evident that things would have gone a lot worse had it not been extant. The Trust as a political entity has had it's existence vindicated. No one is looking to walk away or dismantle it at this point. The fact that you're referring to them as allies is also sort of meh- they aren't. Allies don't have a common military, nor do they have common laws- the Trust is quite a bit more closely tied than that.

This isn't pre-civil war US where you have too heavily diverging parties at odds with each other- no one can afford to walk away. It also isn't medieval Europe where flash points can erupt over any sorts of things and foreign policy is simply the whims of the Heads of State. - Like seriously, comparing coherent and complex nation-states to feudal societies when it comes to foreign policy? That's insane. Vanaheim is more than Governor Olaf, shooting the shit with him isn't a bad idea, but the kind of networking the Grand Tour is all about is obsolete to a large extent.

I mean, you know how we keep a pulse on foreign agendas nowadays? It's through ambassadors, and foreign ministers- people who are trained to do this shit and devote all their time to such. It's almost like that's the exact sort of reason why we have the lower council.

The whole multi-culturalism thing was retarded on my end, and I have no excuse. But your ravings about feudalism and the need to prevent civil war do zero to assuage my concerns with that choice. Not even Asgard is feudal in the real sense of the word. No one would dare to assume you could subvert one of Sigurd's banner men, and they sure as hell are going to answer any such call. I'm just going to flat out admit I made a massive ass out of myself in my last few posts, that being said I still think the merits of the grand Tour are in question and bear discussion.

You seem to be of the opinion it's the obligation of Avernus to know the capabilities, limitations, and agenda of each of the Trust Worlds. Am I correct? I'm firmly of the opinion a facet of the Trust itself is to serve as a quorum where those things are brought up and discussed by all members as needed. I feel confident in saying that to most other Trust members- Avernus' capabilities are relatively nebulous on the ground (besides a lot), our limitations are at best "they need to protect their cities, their ship graveyard, and possibly further colonize Avernus". I'm sure they have dedicated officials who know a hell of a lot more but that's what I imagine the gist of it is for most heads of state. And that's okay. The only true wildcards IMO are Niflheim and Muspelheim and good luck getting them to open up.
 
Last edited:
It's a decent thing, but at the end of the day the Imperial Trust is a stable enough institution that it actively doesn't need a diplomancer to actively maintain it. Avernus has decent ties, and is a quirky but valued member of it. How does the Grand Tour change that? How does wining and dining with the Aesir help Avernus? How does watching Knight Tourneys on Asgard help with that? Networking? Contacts? This may surprise you- but we don't necessarily need to know what all the other members in this confederacy are thinking- because every single Confederacy member has a vested interest in making this work. There's a lot of inertia behind the Trust at this point, it's been tried and tested, and it's been made evident that things would have gone a lot worse had it not been extant. The Trust as a political entity has had it's existence vindicated. No one is looking to walk away or dismantle it at this point. The fact that you're referring to them as allies is also sort of meh- they aren't. Allies don't have a common military, nor do they have common laws- the Trust is quite a bit more closely tied than that.

This isn't pre-civil war US where you have too heavily diverging parties at odds with each other- no one can afford to walk away. It also isn't medieval Europe where flash points can erupt over any sorts of things and foreign policy is simply the whims of the Heads of State. - Like seriously, comparing coherent and complex nation-states to feudal societies when it comes to foreign policy? That's insane. Vanaheim is more than Governor Olaf, shooting the shit with him isn't a bad idea, but the kind of networking the Grand Tour is all about is obsolete to a large extent.

I mean, you know how we keep a pulse on foreign agendas nowadays? It's through ambassadors, and foreign ministers- people who are trained to do this shit and devote all their time to such. It's almost like that's the exact sort of reason why we have the lower council.

The whole multi-culturalism thing was retarded on my end, and I have no excuse. But your ravings about feudalism and the need to prevent civil war do zero to assuage my concerns with that choice. Not even Asgard is feudal in the real sense of the word. No one would dare to assume you could subvert one of Sigurd's banner men, and they sure as hell are going to answer any such call. I'm just going to flat out admit I made a massive ass out of myself in my last few posts, that being said I still think the merits of the grand Tour are in question and bear discussion.

You seem to be of the opinion it's the obligation of Avernus to know the capabilities, limitations, and agenda of each of the Trust Worlds. Am I correct? I'm firmly of the opinion a facet of the Trust itself is to serve as a quorum where those things are brought up and discussed by all members as needed. I feel confident in saying that to most other Trust members- Avernus' capabilities are relatively nebulous on the ground (besides a lot), our limitations are at best "they need to protect their cities, their ship graveyard, and possibly further colonize Avernus". I'm sure they have dedicated officials who know a hell of a lot more but that's what I imagine the gist of it is for most heads of state. And that's okay. The only true wildcards IMO are Niflheim and Muspelheim and good luck getting them to open up.
For what it is worth I just want Syr to get useful contacts so things that need to get done get done quickly, and to help encourage a certain sense of camaraderie, kinda hard when everyone is separated by light years but meh.

As for Surt, I really just want to ask him into a private meeting, just us and him and simply ask him "hey we know you are hiding the majority of your skills we know your ordering Niflehiem around and that you have something the conservative admech would probably consider tech heresy, please tell us so we can lend a hand."
 
For what it is worth I just want Syr to get useful contacts so things that need to get done get done quickly, and to help encourage a certain sense of camaraderie, kinda hard when everyone is separated by light years but meh.

As for Surt, I really just want to ask him into a private meeting, just us and him and simply ask him "hey we know you are hiding the majority of your skills we know your ordering Niflehiem around and that you have something the conservative admech would probably consider tech heresy, please tell us so we can lend a hand."
Muspelheim and Niflheim have been doing fine on their own since the Great Crusade at least. I dont think they don't particularly need our help.
If we are to do that we need a leverage to work with. As of right now we've got nothing.
 
Muspelheim and Niflheim have been doing fine on their own since the Great Crusade at least. I dont think they don't particularly need our help.
Not actually phrase it that way, please...

Seriously I hope it would be phrased by someone who... ya know understands people.

In any case they seem pragmatic and not overly prideful... I hope.

The only real instance is when Surt was against giving up his stuff cause ya know, Cargo Cult and all that, which makes sense as Brittons changes hadn't gone through yet.
 
I agree that the Grand Tour isn't about multi-culturalism, but I don't think it's a necessity to prevent civil war - Frederick never did it and by and large he gets along with them.

True that civil war is an extreme outcome. I'd point out though that Fredrick is a galactic, and has a much broader world view than just Avernus, and that has aided him.

I'm concerned about some of Syr's attitude that seems to be "Avernus is the best, and I want to be a great general like my father."

It's rather... provincial. Understanding more of the universe and the breadth of experience even just inside the Trust can only be a good thing.

That's not entirely related though. Frederick was a bureaucrat who dealt with tons of different worlds on a daily basis before he became governor. Syr has no such experience to draw from.
I agree that it's not too big of a deal though. We can do without it, just as is the case for any of the education options.

We can do without it. I over-reacted to the charge of doing it just for multiculturalism benefits.

This isn't pre-civil war US where you have too heavily diverging parties at odds with each other- no one can afford to walk away. It also isn't medieval Europe where flash points can erupt over any sorts of things and foreign policy is simply the whims of the Heads of State. - Like seriously, comparing coherent and complex nation-states to feudal societies when it comes to foreign policy? That's insane. Vanaheim is more than Governor Olaf, shooting the shit with him isn't a bad idea, but the kind of networking the Grand Tour is all about is obsolete to a large extent.

Actually... to be fair, the whims of the Heads of State are quite powerful. Asgard, Midgard, Alfheim, Avernus, and Jotunheim are all essentially dictatorships. Even Vanaheim and Svartalfheim are ruled by oligarchies in which networking is actually more important in some ways. 40K can easily be medieval in many ways politically, and our part of the universe is more so than most. (Part of the anachronism stew).

Granted, networking with Nilfheim is likely pointless, and Muspelheim less effective.

And I would point out that the main reason the Trust formed as strongly as it did is because Avernus and Muspelheim made extreme efforts to tie it together. We had to trade in something like three favors with Asgard, and favors with Vanaheim, Midgard, and Alfheim.

Those natural divisions are slowly being buried by the continued integration of the Trust, but certain events could reopen those fault lines. It's important that Syr be positioned to be able to smooth over any such divisions that arise. Understanding the perspective of the various systems, and having networked some relationships through out the trust will be invaluable for that.

Remember that the US antebellum era developed in many ways because the political class stoked regional divisions instead of encouraging unity. This was because the political class was regionally divided themselves.

Also, I accept your apology, and I apologize myself for lashing back so harshly. I shouldn't have done that. You just managed to hit one of my berserk points. (I'm actually descended from Lakaota Indians, and I find all the multiculturalism to be so much pretentious white liberalism. They say how much they admire the "Native American way of life" but in reality they wouldn't want to live it. I know I wouldn't. Besides, what does that even mean anyway? American Indian tribes all had extremely different lifestyles and imagined commonalities are so much hokism.)

You seem to be of the opinion it's the obligation of Avernus to know the capabilities, limitations, and agenda of each of the Trust Worlds. Am I correct?

I am of the opinion that it is extremely advantageous to Avernus to know the capabilities, limitations, and agenda of each of the Trust Worlds.

And that therefor it is Syr's obligation to advance that understanding even if it means spending a decade away from Avernus. Since it is Syr's duty to improve Avernite position and strengths.
 
EDIT: I suppose I should vote.

[X] Avernite Naval Academy

Because I think that avoiding overspecialization is the best way to buttress the Avernite specialization in awesome grunts.

This is not some petty reason, this is basic duty. Syr is a grown woman, and not a child. She can shut the hell up about her preferences, man up, and do her duty!

I have to say, this particular point is one that I strongly agree with.

And I also get similarly annoyed when people strawman me. Given how effective you being sharp about it has been in this case, you have me wondering if I shouldn't have been sharper with people the times I've been misrepresented in this thread.

Still, expressing anger in a constructive way is one of many things that is particularly tricky in internet communication.

40K can easily be medieval in many ways politically, and our part of the universe is more so than most.

Mmm. Well, in essence of the Imperium of Man is the Holy Roman Empire of early medieval Europe. Many of the oddities of the setting basically exist to make a medieval system and medieval mindset believable.

Gradual refit was, to the best of my knowledge, for the general gear that we already replaced for everyone PDF and up. It's strictly the higher-quality versions of the same things, without new weapons, vehicle types, aircraft, etc. So while we should eventually grab the gradual refit to finish out our militia, we're better off kitting out our front-line troops.

I thought Gradual refit included all the new weapons except for the ones that involve changing doctrine to use (like phase tanks, land speeders and flying fortresses).

@durin:

1. What exactly does the Gradual refit do at this point? Does it just bring our militia up to a level already reached by the rest of our forces?
2. Did you have any thoughts on my post here? Is an airforce with skill levels equivalent to our militia possible?

fasquardon
 
Last edited:
I have to say, this particular point is one that I strongly agree with.

And I also get similarly annoyed when people strawman me. Given how effective you being sharp about it has been in this case, you have me wondering if I shouldn't have been sharper with people the times I've been misrepresented in this thread.



Mmm. Well, in essence of the Imperium of Man is the Holy Roman Empire of early medieval Europe. Many of the oddities of the setting basically exist to make a medieval system and medieval mindset believable.



I thought Gradual refit included all the new weapons except for the ones that involve changing doctrine to use (like phase tanks, land speeders and flying fortresses).

@durin:

1. What exactly does the Gradual refit do at this point? Does it just bring our militia up to a level already reached by the rest of our forces?
2. Did you have any thoughts on my post here? Is an airforce with skill levels equivalent to our militia possible?

fasquardon
1. yes
2. yes, but not for a while given that you have more important projects, and need to let your airforce get used to their new planes
 
Daemonic Incursion Part One: Pink Skies
Daemonic Incursion Part One: Pink Skies
Ninety-four years since the Founding of Avernus.

You were conducting an inspection of Dis' starport defences when it happens.

Suddenly the world seems to shudder for a second with entirely mental force, you hear many of the soldiers around you, including some of the Governor's Own cry out in pain as they develop nosebleeds from the sheer psychic pressure. Then the skies change, in a second they go from clear, calm blue to a unnatural pink and purple lit up by an eerie light. Several shuttles that were coming down to land exploded seconds later, with no obvious cause. In reaction to these events the Void Shields are immediately raised to full strength.

At that point Odysseus tells you that the daemons of the Dark Prince are assaulting Avernus and that his presence blankets the land. As you are hurried back to the Gubernatorial Palace, Odysseus continues to explain what he can sense and what will most likely happen. He tells you that the forces of Chaos are coming from the Warp Rifts on the northern pole, which have been expanded significantly and that several massive psychic presences are opposing them. He also mentions that sheer weight of the Dark Princes presence that he can feel will result in a massive rise in cultist numbers, he expects millions, and a rise in the number and power of Chaos Psykers while the incursion lasts.

As you approach the Gubernatorial Palace a massive earthquake hits, with the entire mountain that Dis is dug into shaking and several buildings within city collapsing. Once you get into your palace you immediately hurry to the War Room, where you find your senior staff have already fully mobilised the militia and attempted to make contact with the rest of Avernus. It is then that you are informed that a massive amount of interference has made long distance broadcasts impossible and that the recent earthquake has cut off all of the landlines. Given that attempting to communicate using psyker in this situation would be foolhardy and as you have already seen the skies are currently to dangerous for flight this has effectively reduced the area that you can command to Dis itself. Hopefully your local commanders in the rest of Avernus will be able to contact each other better, and maybe even shift troops though the underground railways. You will have to trust that you men are as skilled as you know they are and focus on the current situation.

As you are thinking this you begin to coordinate setting up watch and mobilisation schedules for and extended siege along with fully mobilising the cult hunting units and seconding several of your best forces to assist them.

The coming period will most likely be the greatness threat that Avernus has faced and there is little that you can do to influence the results. Much to your relief Syr, is currently not on Avernus due to her naval schooling.

It will be a few days before the next update and in that time you can write Omakes about the daemonic attack, how your heroes cope with it and the rogue psykers. Remember that most travel and communication is cut off leading to almost everyone being isolated to some level. Also the daemons are coming from the north and having to fight past the main resistance, the wildlife which is going all out (the earthquake are not the results of daemons). The following list shows the locations of all of your heroes ad elite units, those under wild could be anywhere.

Note I will be rolling for how well every hero does and if he/she survives, Omakes provide bonuses.

Dis
Governor Rotbart
Primaris Odysseus (Biomancer)
The Governor's Own
Lieutenant-General Eichel
Other
Lieutenant-General Khol (Helm's Deep)
Lieutenant-General Donovan (Stomr's End)
The Black Irons
Archmagos Biologis Saren (with Island Turtle)
Primaris Xavier (in new Psyker city)
Henry (in new Psyker city)
Inquisitor Klovis-Ultan (with Sirens)
Dorthonion
Fabricator-General Britton
Archmagos Tranth

Unseen University
Headmaster Ridcully
Saint Lin

Other
Lieutenant-General Agani (Mirkwood)
Primaris Hobbs (Pyromancer, G) (Mirkwood)
The Phase-Tigers
Lieutenant-General Richards (Hollin)
Lieutenant-General Paulson
Malea
First Councillor Aryz

Other
Lieutenant-General Schwarz
General Drago (Garden Grove)
Lieutenant-General Christianson
Primaris Jameson (Pyromancer/Telapath, B)
Jane
Primaris Zhokov (Pyromancer)
Primaris Aria (Telapath)
Primaris Jameson (Pyromancer/Telapath, B)
 
Last edited:
@durin, I have a few questions about this situation that I think might be useful.

1. The title of the update and the multiple Dark Prince references makes me think that this attack is primarily Slaannesh's doing, that is, we will mostly be seeing Slaanneshi Demons, as opposed to Khornate, Tzeenchien, or Nurglish Demons. Is this line of though correct?

2. Has this attack been planned by Chaos' forces? Or is it just a spur-of-the-moment thing brought about by a combination of bad dice rolls and Chaos pouncing on the opportunity?

Anyone else have any questions?
 
Last edited:
Lin, Tranth, and Ridcully are our highest priorities, especially Lin. We should focus on making sure they live.
 
Last edited:
so Slaannesh just stuck it into a meat grinder. Any other world would be beyond screwed at this point, but the wildlife will proalby attrition the demons enough that we have better than even odds of pulling through. If nothing else at least a few hosts of demons will proably be obliterated before the commands of "leave the penguins the fuck alone" really sinks in.
 
Back
Top