Bit of an inconsistency in your semantics there. If we go with the naval option now she'll get a malus to both. (both are technically net bonuses with a malus applied to them) If we don't she'll get a smaller net naval bonus due to a malus. Sorry, just felt that it was necessary to clarify that as I'm in an OCD grammar nazi mood.
Those seem like good criteria, however I think "vs Tyranids" ought to be added in between Bombardment and "vs Orks." Also, switch the order of Necrons and Eldar.
That mallus can dissappear with experience (good thing we can send Syr with her Uncle) and given that Avernus strong point is, and will be its ground forces, Syr should became as proficient as possible leading them...
Are the criteria asked till now. Reducing them to 3 or 4 is doable. I would prioritize:
EM Cost
Planetary Assault
Landing
Bombardment
Notable difference to other proposals
How good it is against generalized other species fleets would be nice but not needed. Would a reduction to these 4 be agreeable on a 1 to 100 scale, with "Notable" as anything you feel you want to say about it instead of some numbers?
Given how complicated the entire fleet thing is it would be best if you choose. It is your decision to either work out wich you prefer or to do the work to give us something to decide upon. Both are choices that include work.
What would you prefer?
Please. A lack of multiculturalism is not a crippling flaw in a future head of state. Olaf's heir is not going to appreciate Avernite's culture, etc. Not seeing the need to explore Europe for ten fucking years does not a bad president make. It's an incredibly pedantic argument that's absurd by modern standards, let alone by 40k's.
It's a shitty argument, and it's a shitty thing to do to force your child to leave her home world for ten years for petty reasons.
Please. A lack of multiculturalism is not a crippling flaw in a future head of state. Olaf's heir is not going to appreciate Avernite's culture, etc. Not seeing the need to explore Europe for ten fucking years does not a bad president make. It's an incredibly pedantic argument that's absurd by modern standards, let alone by 40k's.
It's a shitty argument, and it's a shitty thing to do to force your child to leave her home world for ten years for petty reasons.
And that's fine. But insisting catering to the other Trust worlds before we ensure our heir is the necessary head of state for Avernus in some claim of multiculturalism is crazy.
Are the criteria asked till now. Reducing them to 3 or 4 is doable. I would prioritize:
EM Cost
Planetary Assault
Landing
Bombardment
Notable difference to other proposals
How good it is against generalized other species fleets would be nice but not needed. Would a reduction to these 4 be agreeable on a 1 to 100 scale, with "Notable" as anything you feel you want to say about it instead of some numbers?
Given how complicated the entire fleet thing is it would be best if you choose. It is your decision to either work out wich you prefer or to do the work to give us something to decide upon. Both are choices that include work.
What would you prefer?
I actually think getting AM cost is more important than EM Cost at this point. Most plans are ~1,750 EM, +/- 150ish. That's a fairly fixed range that everyone is working in, but we've never gotten an AM assessment, and that's the biggest bottleneck for upgrading everything right now. Looking at the few construction & Upkeep costs we can see, we could probably get a decent approximation by multiplying EM by 125, but getting Durin's more precise numbers is worth it IMO.
I am going to revise my plan a little, as I'm too underweight on regular Cruisers and those are very cheap (2 EM per year for a Warrior).
Previous Version:
1 Einherjar Class Command Battleship
1 Hero Class Battleship
1 Champion Class Battleship
2 Pope Class Grand Carriers
1 Scots Class Grand Cruiser
1 Gurkha Class Grand Cruiser
5 Paladin Class Heavy Cruisers
5 Chevalier Class Heavy Cruisers
2 Teutonic Class Heavy Cruiser
4 Templar Class Heavy Carriers
8 Warrior Class Cruiser
12 Knight Class Cruiser
8 Bishop Class Carrier
4 Bolas Class Cruiser
6 Corsair Class Cruiser
2 Poacher Class Cruiser
2 Acolyte Class Carrier
20 Youxia Class Escort Cruiser
8 Monk Class Escort Carrier
300 Soldier Class Destroyer
150 Squire Class Frigate
100 Page Class Frigate
125 Legionnaire Class Destroyer
30 Descent Class Destroyer
1 Night Class Battlecruiser
6 Fog Class Light Cruiser
24 Shadow Class Destroyer
Only changed Cruiser Weight ships & Under
+ 4 Knight Class Cruiser
+ 6 Cataphract Class Cruiser
+ 4 Warrior Class Cruiser
+ 6 Hoplite Class Cruisers
+ 4 Bishop Class Carrier
+ 2 Bolas Class Cruiser
- 150 Soldier Class Destroyer
+ 50 Squire Class Frigate
+ 100 Page Class Frigate
+ 25 Legionnaire Class Destroyer
+ 10 Descent Class Destroyer
- 2 Fog Class Light Cruiser
- 8 Shadow Class Destroyer
Which gives this:
1 Einherjar Class Command Battleship
1 Hero Class Battleship
1 Champion Class Battleship
2 Pope Class Grand Carriers
1 Scots Class Grand Cruiser
1 Gurkha Class Grand Cruiser
5 Paladin Class Heavy Cruisers
5 Chevalier Class Heavy Cruisers
2 Teutonic Class Heavy Cruiser
4 Templar Class Heavy Carriers
16 Knight Class Cruiser
6 Cataphract Class Cruiser
12 Warrior Class Cruiser
6 Hoplite Class Cruisers
12 Bishop Class Carrier
6 Bolas Class Cruiser
6 Corsair Class Cruiser
2 Poacher Class Cruiser
2 Acolyte Class Carrier
20 Youxia Class Escort Cruiser
8 Monk Class Escort Carrier
150 Soldier Class Destroyer
200 Squire Class Frigate
200 Page Class Frigate
150 Legionnaire Class Destroyer
40 Descent Class Destroyer
1 Night Class Battlecruiser
4 Fog Class Light Cruiser
16 Shadow Class Destroyer
EM Upkeep of the previous plan was ~1750 EM, and this one should be ~1850 EM.
Ship Weighting: 62% Armored 22% Cheap 6% Fast 10% Medium
Escort Weighting: 54% Armored 40% Cheap 6% Medium
Escort : Cruiser ratio is 6:1
Weighting is ignoring Stealth ships. Not certain they're even necessary, since any fight that needs special insertion of stealth ships before the main battle is probably one that will involve Muspelheim at which point our stealth troops could just hitch a ride with them anyway.
I actually think getting AM cost is more important than EM Cost at this point. Most plans are ~1,750 EM, +/- 150ish. That's a fairly fixed range that everyone is working in, but we've never gotten an AM assessment, and that's the biggest bottleneck for upgrading everything right now. Looking at the few construction & Upkeep costs we can see, we could probably get a decent approximation by multiplying EM by 125, but getting Durin's more precise numbers is worth it IMO.
You are right and wrong. EM is moe limited than AM and ships, big ones especially, need compareable more EM than AM. We want to build a fleet so we need both but it is easier to handle AM then EM.
I only cut AM out because durin found it to much and EM is more important. In AM the proposed fleets do not differ much as well.
You are right and wrong. EM is moe limited than AM and ships, big ones especially, need compareable more EM than AM. We want to build a fleet so we need both but it is easier to handle AM then EM.
I only cut AM out because durin found it to much and EM is more important. In AM the proposed fleets do not differ much as well.
AM is less as a comparison, more so we actually know how much the plans will cost since we've never done AM tests before, but if Durin doesn't want to do that work then OK.
And you're actually wrong about the AM:EM ratio on bigger ships. For Command BSs, they have an AM : EM Ratio of 140:1 on the low end and 150:1 on the high end (Einherjar), while the Warrior class Cruiser is 110 AM:1 EM, so the biggest ship takes nearly 1.5x the amount of AM for how much EM it eats compared a common cruiser, and the ratio gets worse as we go down in size.
Page & Squires are at 80 AM:1 EM and Soldier Class destroyers use 62.5 AM : 1 EM.
AM is less as a comparison, more so we actually know how much the plans will cost since we've never done AM tests before, but if Durin doesn't want to do that work then OK.
And you're actually wrong about the AM:EM ratio on bigger ships. For Command BSs, they have an AM : EM Ratio of 140:1 on the low end and 150:1 on the high end (Einherjar), while the Warrior class Cruiser is 110 AM:1 EM, so the biggest ship takes nearly 1.5x the amount of AM for how much EM it eats compared a common cruiser, and the ratio gets worse as we go down in size.
Page & Squires are at 80 AM:1 EM and Soldier Class destroyers use 62.5 AM : 1 EM.
EDIT: Removed the rage, left the arguments. Really though, it was very rude to assign a strawman position to me that I do not hold, and do not agree with, and then tell me it's a shitty argument.
Please. A lack of multiculturalism is not a crippling flaw in a future head of state. Olaf's heir is not going to appreciate Avernite's culture, etc. Not seeing the need to explore Europe for ten fucking years does not a bad president make. It's an incredibly pedantic argument that's absurd by modern standards, let alone by 40k's.
It's a shitty argument, and it's a shitty thing to do to force your child to leave her home world for ten years for petty reasons.
It's not about multi-culturalism. It's about making sure that you know the people that you have to make deals with to keep us from breaking up in a civil war.
This is not some petty reason, this is basic duty. Syr is a grown woman, and not a child. She can shut the hell up about her preferences, man up, and do her duty!
The job of the planetary governor is to make deals with other planetary governors. A planetary governor can afford to delegate administrative duties, diplomatic duties, and yes.. even military duties.
The one thing a governor cannot delegate is strategic thinking - and in a confederacy like this that is utterly dependent on being able to understand and assess the needs and wants of our erstwhile allies.
Where the do you get off sticking words in my mouth and then telling me that I'm making a shitty argument?
And that's fine. But insisting catering to the other Trust worlds before we ensure our heir is the necessary head of state for Avernus in some claim of multiculturalism is crazy.
This is about basic understanding of your allies. There is a reason that medieval kings sent their heirs on a grand tour of Europe, and wasn't because they were concerned about 20th Century multiculturism political correctness!
This is about basic understanding of your allies. There is a reason that medieval kings sent their heirs on a grand tour of Europe, and wasn't because they were concerned about 20th Century multiculturism political correctness bullshit!
Don't you ever do this again. Don't you ever try to tell me what I think or make up your strawman argument and try and say that I'm making that argument.
I agree that the Grand Tour isn't about multi-culturalism, but I don't think it's a necessity to prevent civil war - Frederick never did it and by and large he gets along with them.
