No. They work by devouring people's souls for sustenance. These are soul devouring horrors that break minds like an otter breaks oysters. That they have a near human form only makes them more monstrous. Durin explicitly stated in the action that these aliens are probably the hardest possible sell to make to the Trust before it jumps to "kill it with fire, no questions asked".
Avernus already has a dubious reputation of Xenophilia, this will set it in stone no matter what we do. People *will* take issue with this, and assuming the consequences will be easily mitigated is absurd negligence.
You are adding "consorts with soul devouring horrors" onto the descriptors of Avernus: crazy, hell world, stupidly advanced, oh god why, Xenos lovers, badasses, tech progressives, psyker bonanza and expecting only minor relationship loss. Just look at that description and tell me you wouldn't be concerned. This is serious shit, the kind that can't be understated.
An embassy will likely have a minor hit with a given world - I would guess -2 at the most, -3 if being very pessimistic, but a lot of worlds will just trust our judgement. It would be doing additional things the different worlds disapprove of that would result in a larger hit I think. Giving them technology would definitely cause major problems, as we've been warned against that. Taking them off world without discussing it with the Trust would be another. (functionally, I would view this as being similar to the AdMech actions - certain actions we take with them would result in decreased opinion) As long as we're not stupid about additional actions, we should be able keep it from becoming too problematic. We can and should sound out those options, but we'll only know what those options are once we actually make the embassy.
Also you need to remember that the Trust explicitly voted on giving us leeway with dealing with Avernus xeno species, and we have an oversight group that would specifically stop us from doing this and bringing it to a High Council if they thought it was a major problem.
This seems to be a hangup for some people, so hearing opinions on it would be good, especially if it's the big clincher on why people want to vote on one plan over another. I'd like to have her in the Helltroopers for another five years, but I'm not married to it.
It'd kind of a big drawback to the current voting method that a single option can influence so much. This particular one might be fine if "continue helltroopers" was one of the education options when it came time to vote - would make things a lot easier.
The risk to her life here isn't as bad as before since she should be an officer rather than a grunt starting at the bottom, and getting a combat bonus so she can't be so easily killed by wildlife later on is invaluable. This will also cement her lessons from the Officer's Academy. I would say do this first, then go with the Naval Academy option next turn.
This was your very first argument on the topic last time we made the choice, and you argued consistently over the duration of the vote that it should be Helltroopers first, then Navy + Navy Tour of Duty. She's at Combat 35 now so that goal is done. Not following through on your own arguments feels a little dishonest.
This was your very first argument on the topic last time we made the choice. She's at Combat 35 now so that goal is done. What's changed since then that makes you not want to send her?
I didn't know that continuing her military career would actually be an option at the time - I was under the impression it would be five years and then would need to be something else. Her current rank gives her +1M and +2C, so I'm hoping that higher rank might increase both further. She should be able to get to either Major or Lieutenant Colonoel with another five years, I think. In particular I'm wanting more in the Martial because that's the hardest area for her to raise.
Like I said, I'm not married to another five years of it, so if enough people have a strong preference for going ahead and voting on it.
EDIT - I'll also note the flavor text on the option is different this turn. "While Syr is happy with her military career and is gaining valuable experience from it you could have her end it now that her initial period of service is up and send her to another educational institute." - she is apparently getting experience, and it's not the type Frederick was able to gain since he's always been at the top of Avernus's military.
I didn't know that continuing her military career would actually be an option at the time - I was under the impression it would be five years and then would need to be something else. Her current rank gives her +1M and +2C, so I'm hoping that higher rank might increase both further. She should be able to get to either Major or Lieutenant Colonoel with another five years, I think. In particular I'm wanting more in the Martial because that's the hardest area for her to raise.
Like I said, I'm not married to another five years of it, so if enough people have a strong preference for going ahead and voting on it.
EDIT - I'll also note the flavor text on the option is different this turn. "While Syr is happy with her military career and is gaining valuable experience from it you could have her end it now that her initial period of service is up and send her to another educational institute." - she is apparently getting experience, and it's not the type Frederick was able to gain since he's always been at the top of Avernus's military.
Alright, looking at the char sheets, General give this: General (+4M, +1A, +2C -1D, -1I) vs Admiral (+4M, +1A, +1C -1D, -1I, can command fleets), no Helltrooper General trait found.
So she's never going to gain more Combat from continued Helltrooper training, the Captain trait does level for an additional 3 over time, but it's completely equaled by Admiral, so if she's able to get that promotion in the Navy it's basically equal.
What I did find interesting that has nothing to do with the choice right now, is that her trait: Avernus Officers Academy Valedictorian (+2M, +3A, +3L, +2P, +2C)
is objectively inferior to the standard: Avernus Officers Academy Graduate (+3M, +3A, +2L, +2P, +3C)
She got +1L but -1M and -1C compared to the regular graduates, which feels wrong since Valedictorian is supposed to be better than usual, right? @durin was there a mistake there?
*tinykitty scrabblyclaws her way back into the thread* whaddimiss?
between work being an utter crapsack, having my computer break something vital on the motherboard, and general stress-induced dithering, I've only just recently gotten back up and running, on a brand new computer.
Needless to say, I was rather daunted when I found out how much had gone on since Saturday morning. o,o
I've done a bit of catching up, and while I like Enjou's plan better so far, I'd like clarification from Durin: can we continue Syr's helltrooper career later, should she like to return to it, and if so, what would the detriment be? I'm thinking a brief stint as a naval officer would give her a fresh perspective, something she could take to the ground war once she's done her time in the navy.
My opinion on the matter is to let her collect experiene. The Naval trait is defunct by now anyway and compareable to Fredericks.
If in the future she feels like going to the naval academy she my do so and have a tour of duty in it afterwards.
Hmmm, I wonder if Syr's Avernite trait should have been upgraded yet. It gives +1C, and I know that Avernite Elder is 50 years of surviving Avernus and gives +4C. I don't remember all the ranks between, but Avernite Survivor is +2C.
That said, could those who've voted but not given any feedback please do so? It helps immensely to hear why you guys are voting for a certain plan, even if it's just voting against something in one of the plans. Hearing suggestions helps too. The ultimate quality of plans goes up when all of you actually voice your opinions about things.
That said, could those who've voted but not given any feedback please do so? It helps immensely to hear why you guys are voting for a certain plan, even if it's just voting against something in one of the plans. Hearing suggestions helps too. The ultimate quality of plans goes up when all of you actually voice your opinions about things.
Just noticed this bit - if you want to do trade with Vanaheim this turn, then you could do the stealth ships too. We can pay to have some repaired, and then sell them to Muspelheim next turn, promising delivery once Vanaheim has finished them. We can make more on selling a completed ship than we can a wrecked ship, and we can even get some Vanaheim credits by buying them from Muspelheim.
[X] Plan Enjou T68
Mostly I'm just in agreement with your assessment of Syr's education. I think she should spend the next 5 years there, possibly more if Durin says it would give more benefit, but after that to switch her to a naval career, to round her off combat-wise. Maybe afterwards, send her to work as a liason between Henry and Drago? ^.~
Convinced by the arguments to put off investigating the Stealth ships and doing trade talks with Muspelheim. Our shipyards we be busy anyway throughout all of next turn anyway, so if we want to build ships for Muspelheim, best to spend the actions next year.
Instead, let's focus on Midgard's fleet (Cheap Generalists and Battleships), and at the end of this turn make a deal with Midgard and Vanaheim on ship construction. Including Vanaheim so we can make three party deals with Battleships.
Have a Double Down free that can not be spent on Psyker or Mechanicus, so added a Diplomatic Relations.
Improve Quarantine, get a Dedicated Spy Network on something that has been biting us. Have 4 Psyker Hunter actions. Positioning this way means all actions are free next year, and we still get a Psyker Hunting action every year except Y3.
Bonus Survey Slot (5 Yr):
Y1: Detailed Survey (Saint Class Battleship)
Y2: Detailed Survey (Champion Class Battleship)
Y3: Detailed Survey (Hero Class Battleship)
Y4: Detailed Survey (Bishop Class Carrier)
Y5: Detailed Survey (Knight Class Cruiser)
Delaying Stealth ship survey until next turn. This turn surveying the other Battleship types, the Bishop class Carrier (which both Midgard and us want a bunch of), and the Knight Class (which we want a bunch of). This should give us a good mix for talking about in trade talks with Midgard and Vanaheim.
Decided to do a lot of Starship Tech examination. Hopefully this will allow us to Expand the Collegia again to handle Starship tech too.
Next turn we can switch our free slot to doing primarily Britton stuff.
Slot 1 (5 yrs):
Y1: Those in the Shadows
Y2: Those in the Shadows
Y3: Those in the Shadows
Y4: Investigate Rituals for Taint: Part Three
Slot 2 (Locked): Theological Studies Seminaries
High numbers of Betas/Gammas and also lower major psykers the first three years.
Slot 2 (5 yrs):
Y1: Establish new Psyker City: The Azure Islands
Gives us Mentoring on 4 Gammas and 1 Beta. Get cheating on Examining tech.
Personal Attention Slot 1 (4 yrs):
Y2: Personal Attention: Long Term Planning
Y3: Personal Attention: Pilot Armour: Attack Craft Wings
Personal Attention Slot 2 (5 yrs):
Y1: Personal Attention: Phase Tanks: Helltroopers
General Slot 1 (4 yrs):
Y2: Spend Time With (Henry)
Y3: Spend Time With (Jane)
Y4: Spend Time With (Xavier)
Y5: Spend Time With (Ridcully)
General Slot 2 (5 yrs):
Y1: Further Education: Syr
Y2: Spend Time With Syr;
Y3: Spend Time With Syr;
Y4: Spend Time With Syr;
Y5: Spend Time With Syr
Spend Time with Syr, further her education. Let's reconnect with Henry first, he's family too. Then spending time with Jane, and our psyker leaders. Doing Void actions with one slot. Getting Long Term Planning which is essential, and then Pilot Armor so our pilots don't die. Doing Military actions with our other Personal Attention. Open to changing specifics.
Yr 1: Construct: Repair: Privateers
Yr 2: Construct: Upgrade Shipyards
Yr 3: Expand Shipyards
Yr 4: Expand Shipyards
Yr 5: Increase Juve-Nat: All
Yr 1: Diplomatic Relations (Svartalfhiem)
Yr 2: Examine: Graviton Weapons
Yr 3: Dedicated Spy Network (Vanaheim)
Yr 4: Astropathic Rituals
Yr 5: Examine: Kinetic Weapons
Overall I'm a bigger fan of your plan this turn than Enjou's. Thus,
[X] Plan Elder Haman T68
There are a few things I'd like to switch up if possible.
First, given that we've spent a LOT of time with Syr, I would like it if we could do a Spend Time With (Parnell). The way I see it, there are a couple significant benefits there. First, he's a major part of our government that we have spent very little time with, so I think we'd benefit from establishing more ties with him. Second, we might manage to improve his Martial and/or reduce the malus we have to naval command through that. Third, bonus admin for him (another possibility of our association) can reduce upkeep if he follows the guidelines for Military--and our void upkeep is going to get a lot higher soon.
Also, not as major in my mind but I bet Lin would appreciate some time with someone who views him as a person, and frankly speaking we could also afford to spend some time with someone who isn't really a subordinate.
On the reverse-engineering: Graviton Weapons, I honestly think we're better off doubling down on Ridcully's part. With Double Down and the assumption of an "average" success on Cheating, plus Grandmaster of Divination triggering on the weapon if we fail the first roll, we've got something like a 20% chance of figuring it out. Followed by a 25% the next time we try it with everything, followed by a 30%... And that's if everything goes fairly well. I'd rather reduce the chance we actually figure it out this turn in return for an ~6% boost to the base odds forever (the bonus increasing the roll on Cheating by 20 gives us), and keep doing that until we get its base probability high enough that we have a decent chance of figuring it out that turn.
Finally, I'd much rather use our PA to get the Juv-Nat upgrade out our first year than in making the phase tanks. Right now I feel like we're more limited in economy than in slots for upgrading our military--see the Helltrooper and Helguard rearms we basically can't afford.
@Elder Haman
What are your thoughts on switching out the Astropathic Rituals option with Mentoring (1yr) and Cheating:Kinetic Weapons (1yr) in your plan? It's my main objection to your plan (outside of including such low chance options at all that is).
@Enjou As I said before, my major point of of taking Elder´s plan is that I think we should send Syr either to the Naval Academy or to the University next turn, another thing I´m not really sure about your plan is to do Replace ODP instead of Build ODP, the difference is only one more year and the firepower difference is pretty significant.
