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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
Current tally. Unanimous and isn't likely to have any alternatives proposed, I think.
Oh, there is, it just runs off the Rule of Cool like all the rest of the physics. Probably has something to do with the Warp.
Vote Tally : Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) | Page 1402 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.6.0
[X] Arrange a meeting with Governor Olaf and Admiral Freyr. You will discuss a few different subjects.
-[X] Discuss the feedback we got from the other worlds and organizations regarding colonization and hear what they think about the concerns and ideas raised.
--[X] Further, discuss the ideas brought up here.
-[X] Ask if there is anything they think Avernus could help with regarding the colonization of Fjol IV. Given Avernus was able to build up itself as a colony very quickly, we feel that our experience may be relevant.
-[X] Give them details about what has been found out about the ship graveyard thus far and ask for their thoughts regarding possible deals for further collaboration on the repair of wrecks should be handled as well as asking what their thoughts on which ships should be considered high priority to make available for repair.
-[X] Mention that you have evaluated your air force and found it in need of retraining in some areas, and would like to see about getting some of their experts sent to Avernus to help with the retraining.
No. of Votes: 9
Total No. of Voters: 9
##### NetTally 1.6.0
[X] Arrange a meeting with Governor Olaf and Admiral Freyr. You will discuss a few different subjects.
-[X] Discuss the feedback we got from the other worlds and organizations regarding colonization and hear what they think about the concerns and ideas raised.
--[X] Further, discuss the ideas brought up here.
-[X] Ask if there is anything they think Avernus could help with regarding the colonization of Fjol IV. Given Avernus was able to build up itself as a colony very quickly, we feel that our experience may be relevant.
-[X] Give them details about what has been found out about the ship graveyard thus far and ask for their thoughts regarding possible deals for further collaboration on the repair of wrecks should be handled as well as asking what their thoughts on which ships should be considered high priority to make available for repair.
-[X] Mention that you have evaluated your air force and found it in need of retraining in some areas, and would like to see about getting some of their experts sent to Avernus to help with the retraining.
No. of Votes: 9
Total No. of Voters: 9
Oh, there is, it just runs off the Rule of Cool like all the rest of the physics. Probably has something to do with the Warp.
- Location
- Spain
And Double Down...
This way it looks more like a spiked dildo to shove up the enemy's ass. That counts as progress right?
- Location
- Spain
I think that it's just too impracticable for the DAoT to have made. The local branch has been depicted as being more pragmatic that many others, and the Viking is exactly the sort of crazy vanity project they'd shun on basic principle.
@durin, I'm fluffing that Helheim chewed through a comedicly large number of Land Raiders before more specialist tools and vehicles were made. Of a "numbers not seen again until the Horus Heresy" number. Is that alright?
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Hmm... Been thinking over what our trades will probably look like.
Reviewing the statistics for Local Systems when considering trade, looks like they have been updated.
Looking at them, I expect our Trade to be something like this:
Asgard: Sell them 100 Knights per a year for +1,300 credits. No ships required.
Alfhiem: Probably help them with their military again, and trade Thrones for a small amount of Exotic Material? No ships required.
Vanaheim: Assuming cargo spaces stay the same (1.6 Cr (0.1 Cargo)=1,000,000 Metal per year) then shipping 1 billion metal a year will require 6 Mass Conveyors and 4 merchantmen. I'm guessing prices will fall, but that should still give us a ton of credits that we can spend/save. Also, probably straight up give them any aid they need with their colony. Probably purchase some void teams if possible to build shipyards even faster. Or maybe to work on orbital defenses while we work on the shipyards. Trainers for the air force. Maybe purchase a battleship? We'll want to save as much as Vanaheim will let us though. Get ready for the Command Battleships.
Jotunheim: Maybe Thrones for Advanced Material? (No ships required) Or a little bit of Promethium for Advanced Material? (~2 merchantmen required)
Svartalfheim: Probably ship them 100 million Promethium a year, and 400 million metal a year (this will put us in a negative flow until the expansion finishes, but not a problem with our reserves). That will take 2 Mass Conveyors. Buy as much Exotics and Advanced Material as they will let us, even if that means entering debt. Can try to make up the difference in Thrones.
Midgard: Shipping them 5,000 units of food a year will mostly empty our stores by the end of the trade, and require 2 Mass Conveyors and 11 Merchantmen. We can get 20 million colonists a year, some Advanced Material, and take the rest in Thrones. (I've noticed our Throne income/reserves are a bit low. This should give us about 1.6 billion Thrones a year in trade income.)
Muspelheim: We probably trade them 50 million Promethium a year, with some additional Material to fill out the space on the merchantmen, for a total of 4 merchantmen. Hopefully they will be willing to trade us Exotics and Advanced Material this year.
That leaves us with 19 to 21 merchantmen not assigned. We could sell them (possibly to Svartalfheim/Jotunheim to help fund the Exotic and Advanced Materials purchase.) We could keep them idle for possible use in military action (if we need to ship men somewhere), or for more trade with Nilfheim if they come out of the Warp Storm. (Though Nilfheim probably needs less than 20 to send them the max metal and food, even 10 might be enough - and don't forget we have 10 more merchantmen being built, one a year).
Maybe we could also rent them out to Vanaheim for their colonization effort? They are gonna need to ship a crap ton of stuff to Fjol IV.
Reviewing the statistics for Local Systems when considering trade, looks like they have been updated.
Looking at them, I expect our Trade to be something like this:
Asgard: Sell them 100 Knights per a year for +1,300 credits. No ships required.
Alfhiem: Probably help them with their military again, and trade Thrones for a small amount of Exotic Material? No ships required.
Vanaheim: Assuming cargo spaces stay the same (1.6 Cr (0.1 Cargo)=1,000,000 Metal per year) then shipping 1 billion metal a year will require 6 Mass Conveyors and 4 merchantmen. I'm guessing prices will fall, but that should still give us a ton of credits that we can spend/save. Also, probably straight up give them any aid they need with their colony. Probably purchase some void teams if possible to build shipyards even faster. Or maybe to work on orbital defenses while we work on the shipyards. Trainers for the air force. Maybe purchase a battleship? We'll want to save as much as Vanaheim will let us though. Get ready for the Command Battleships.
Jotunheim: Maybe Thrones for Advanced Material? (No ships required) Or a little bit of Promethium for Advanced Material? (~2 merchantmen required)
Svartalfheim: Probably ship them 100 million Promethium a year, and 400 million metal a year (this will put us in a negative flow until the expansion finishes, but not a problem with our reserves). That will take 2 Mass Conveyors. Buy as much Exotics and Advanced Material as they will let us, even if that means entering debt. Can try to make up the difference in Thrones.
Midgard: Shipping them 5,000 units of food a year will mostly empty our stores by the end of the trade, and require 2 Mass Conveyors and 11 Merchantmen. We can get 20 million colonists a year, some Advanced Material, and take the rest in Thrones. (I've noticed our Throne income/reserves are a bit low. This should give us about 1.6 billion Thrones a year in trade income.)
Muspelheim: We probably trade them 50 million Promethium a year, with some additional Material to fill out the space on the merchantmen, for a total of 4 merchantmen. Hopefully they will be willing to trade us Exotics and Advanced Material this year.
That leaves us with 19 to 21 merchantmen not assigned. We could sell them (possibly to Svartalfheim/Jotunheim to help fund the Exotic and Advanced Materials purchase.) We could keep them idle for possible use in military action (if we need to ship men somewhere), or for more trade with Nilfheim if they come out of the Warp Storm. (Though Nilfheim probably needs less than 20 to send them the max metal and food, even 10 might be enough - and don't forget we have 10 more merchantmen being built, one a year).
Maybe we could also rent them out to Vanaheim for their colonization effort? They are gonna need to ship a crap ton of stuff to Fjol IV.
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- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
yes sounds about right
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
4 years, after that it will be five years
Helheim pattern Firehawk Assault Fighter - Fire Raptor
- Location
- his hidden lair
Viking really doesn't add anything though. Unless you're going for the transforming which is ridiculous even by 40k standards, it's not that special, if you do go for the transforming because you like to ruin nice things, it's still an over-engineered, expensive vehicle that requires absurd amounts of training and fails in both its roles in comparison to comparable platforms.
On that uplifting note I'm going to present a piece of my own;
Helheim pattern Firehawk Assault Fighter - Fire Raptor
The Hellheim pattern Firehawk is a variant of the Astartes CAS Fire Raptor, but given the notable amounts of differences, is commonly referred to as the 'Firehawk'. Mounting aHeavy Gatling Impaler as it's primary weapon, this fearsome gun is capable of engaging everything from superheavies to light infantry with effectiveness, with twin linked Gatling Impalers mounted on the left and right of the craft to engage secondary targets, alongside a fearsome missile payload. Utilizing improved plasma reactor tech to increase engine output alongside secondary control surfaces, forward mounted vectored thrusters, and the Pilot Interface Armor, Firehawks are incredibly agile and maneuverable. This agility alongside sophisticated augurs for the machine spirit ensure this craft is as lethal against opposing flyers as it is ground targets. These performance improvements are thanks to a lighter Silversteel hull utilizing low mass allows and using a two man crew. The smaller size of the Heavy Gatling Impaler, lessened bulk of impaler ammunition, and increased fuel efficiency all allow for a shorter fuselage and decreased weight.
Crew: Pilot, Co-Pilot
Weight: 40 tons
Length: 16m
Wingspan: 11m
Max Speed; 2,500 kph
Max Speed -Stratospheric Flight: 3,500 kph
Range: 15,000 kilometers
Main Armament: Heavy Gatling Impaler
Main Ammunition: 20,000 rounds
Secondary Armament: Side mounted twin linked Gatling Impalers
Secondary Ammunition: 15,000 rounds each
Tertiary Armament: 6 Missile/Bomb hardpoints
Armor-Superstructure: 50 mm
Armor-Hull: 75mm
This is for a high performance craft that basically obsoletes the Avenger gunship and Thunderbolt Heavy Fighter. It's all about throwing massive amounts of dakka out there, with the rear of the craft being the only safe place. CAS of the highest order equally as capable shredding flyers with tons of accurate fire from the front or the side. I'm not kidding on the whole 'engaging superheavies' thing, HGI are bullshit, and nothing short of a monolith is going to be armoring it's top near as much as it's front. It's basically a DAOT version of a Fire Raptor with a token nod to aerodynamics and an infusion of it's namesake.
with the forward wing tips of
On that uplifting note I'm going to present a piece of my own;
Helheim pattern Firehawk Assault Fighter - Fire Raptor
The Hellheim pattern Firehawk is a variant of the Astartes CAS Fire Raptor, but given the notable amounts of differences, is commonly referred to as the 'Firehawk'. Mounting aHeavy Gatling Impaler as it's primary weapon, this fearsome gun is capable of engaging everything from superheavies to light infantry with effectiveness, with twin linked Gatling Impalers mounted on the left and right of the craft to engage secondary targets, alongside a fearsome missile payload. Utilizing improved plasma reactor tech to increase engine output alongside secondary control surfaces, forward mounted vectored thrusters, and the Pilot Interface Armor, Firehawks are incredibly agile and maneuverable. This agility alongside sophisticated augurs for the machine spirit ensure this craft is as lethal against opposing flyers as it is ground targets. These performance improvements are thanks to a lighter Silversteel hull utilizing low mass allows and using a two man crew. The smaller size of the Heavy Gatling Impaler, lessened bulk of impaler ammunition, and increased fuel efficiency all allow for a shorter fuselage and decreased weight.
Crew: Pilot, Co-Pilot
Weight: 40 tons
Length: 16m
Wingspan: 11m
Max Speed; 2,500 kph
Max Speed -Stratospheric Flight: 3,500 kph
Range: 15,000 kilometers
Main Armament: Heavy Gatling Impaler
Main Ammunition: 20,000 rounds
Secondary Armament: Side mounted twin linked Gatling Impalers
Secondary Ammunition: 15,000 rounds each
Tertiary Armament: 6 Missile/Bomb hardpoints
Armor-Superstructure: 50 mm
Armor-Hull: 75mm
This is for a high performance craft that basically obsoletes the Avenger gunship and Thunderbolt Heavy Fighter. It's all about throwing massive amounts of dakka out there, with the rear of the craft being the only safe place. CAS of the highest order equally as capable shredding flyers with tons of accurate fire from the front or the side. I'm not kidding on the whole 'engaging superheavies' thing, HGI are bullshit, and nothing short of a monolith is going to be armoring it's top near as much as it's front. It's basically a DAOT version of a Fire Raptor with a token nod to aerodynamics and an infusion of it's namesake.
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Helheim pattern Land Raider Proteus
Here's my LR Proteus entry. It's based off the earliest models, with single lascannons and no frontal mount. The Land Raider Sleipnir is variant we found in the Well of Urd.
Helheim pattern Land Raider Proteus
The Helheim variant of the venerable Land Raider Proteus follows the general trends of it's peers. In the process of bringing the tracks in line with the hull, shifting to the magnetic motor system, and reorganizing the internal configuration, the vehicle has lost a full 8 tons. The Plasma Ioniser has been replaced with a more compact model, with the exhaust and cooling system now spread over the roof of the vehicle. The sponson and side door positions have been reversed. The vast majority of the internal components are now pressed against the rear half of the hull, with the majority of the freed up space being consumed by the Explorator Augury Web. Performance was more than adequate for it's tasked missions. Expect for Helheim.
Helheim proved to be the single largest graveyard of Land Raiders until the Dropsite Massacre. The brave explorers were caught by surprise and simply overwhelmed by the ludicrously hostile wildlife of the hellworld. While Land Raider's legendary durability did manage to save most of their crews, attrition slowly wore away at the available fleet. Eventually, exploration efforts were abandoned, with the remaining vehicles moving on to the other planets of the cluster. Once the Nine Worlds were fully colonized, the few remaining examples were given an honorable retirement to museums. In the exploration fleets, they would be replaced by the Land Raider Sleipnir.
Ultimately, the museum pieces would be reactivated and thrown into the fires of the Men of Iron rebellion. There they would finally perish, suffering one battlefield fate or another, dying on the planets they had one covered and the society that they had helped build. That none have been known to survive can be considered a mercy to the Machine Spirits they housed. Musphelheim's archives indicate that last few functional models were destroyed on Svartlheim. There is some possibility that their remains were interned in the earliest of the Crafter's Guild vaults, awaiting possible restoration.
Helheim Land Raider Proteus
Planet of Origin: Avernus (Helheim)
Known Patterns: I-III
Crew: Driver
Powerplant: Open-core Plasma ioniser
Weight: 63 tons
Length: 7.5m
Width: 4.2m with sponsons
Height: 4m
Ground Clearance: .5m
Max Speed -Road: 52 kph
Max Speed -Off Road: 44 kph
Main Armament: Sponson Lascannons
Traverse: 180
Elevation: -32 to 42
Armor
Superstructure: 95mm
Hull: 95mm
Helheim pattern Land Raider Proteus
The Helheim variant of the venerable Land Raider Proteus follows the general trends of it's peers. In the process of bringing the tracks in line with the hull, shifting to the magnetic motor system, and reorganizing the internal configuration, the vehicle has lost a full 8 tons. The Plasma Ioniser has been replaced with a more compact model, with the exhaust and cooling system now spread over the roof of the vehicle. The sponson and side door positions have been reversed. The vast majority of the internal components are now pressed against the rear half of the hull, with the majority of the freed up space being consumed by the Explorator Augury Web. Performance was more than adequate for it's tasked missions. Expect for Helheim.
Helheim proved to be the single largest graveyard of Land Raiders until the Dropsite Massacre. The brave explorers were caught by surprise and simply overwhelmed by the ludicrously hostile wildlife of the hellworld. While Land Raider's legendary durability did manage to save most of their crews, attrition slowly wore away at the available fleet. Eventually, exploration efforts were abandoned, with the remaining vehicles moving on to the other planets of the cluster. Once the Nine Worlds were fully colonized, the few remaining examples were given an honorable retirement to museums. In the exploration fleets, they would be replaced by the Land Raider Sleipnir.
Ultimately, the museum pieces would be reactivated and thrown into the fires of the Men of Iron rebellion. There they would finally perish, suffering one battlefield fate or another, dying on the planets they had one covered and the society that they had helped build. That none have been known to survive can be considered a mercy to the Machine Spirits they housed. Musphelheim's archives indicate that last few functional models were destroyed on Svartlheim. There is some possibility that their remains were interned in the earliest of the Crafter's Guild vaults, awaiting possible restoration.
Helheim Land Raider Proteus
Planet of Origin: Avernus (Helheim)
Known Patterns: I-III
Crew: Driver
Powerplant: Open-core Plasma ioniser
Weight: 63 tons
Length: 7.5m
Width: 4.2m with sponsons
Height: 4m
Ground Clearance: .5m
Max Speed -Road: 52 kph
Max Speed -Off Road: 44 kph
Main Armament: Sponson Lascannons
Traverse: 180
Elevation: -32 to 42
Armor
Superstructure: 95mm
Hull: 95mm
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1. Regarding the Knights, I think it might depend somewhat on our Exotic Material input. Recent projects have greatly increased our EM upkeep costs. We really need to increase local production.
2. Vanaheim's void teams will probably be busy with building up Niflheim's defenses, I would guess. (they don't know this yet, but we do) Also, they probably would prefer to use them for their own shipyards. (and maybe to accelerate the small one being built at Asgard)
3. For the Merchantmen we'll be producing over the next ten years, saving them for Niflheim is probably a good bet considering that they are producing 811 Exotic Material and they aren't using a single bit of it at this time. We could also sell them the piddling amount of food they need.
4. Don't forget that we need to continue importing Material to some degree to enable us to build up our city defenses. We may want to consider the next factory expansion so we don't have to rely on trade for that...
5. For Midgard, 5,000 units of food is probably too much, and we want to maintain our own stockpile on that for a variety of reasons. Further, they already owe us over a trillion credits worth of debt - I don't think they'll want to increase that too much. The ~1,500 excess we produce a year that we're just throwing out is probably the best way to go.
The Fourth Meeting of the High Council Part Four: A Meeting
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
The Fourth Meeting of the High Council Part Four: A Meeting
Once the High Council Meeting ended for the day you wasted no time in arranging a meeting with Governor Olaf and Admiral Freyr. The main purpose of the meeting is to discuss colonisation but you also plan to talk about the ship graveyard.
After a bit of small talk you begin by comparing notes about the general views on colonisation in the Imperial Trust. It seems both you and Vanaheim have received similar responses to your enquiries so you can immediately begin coming up with ideas.
Your initial basic framework and questions that must be debated are well received by both Governor Olaf and Admiral Freyr. They each oppose certain sections of your proposal but are otherwise happy with it.
Admiral Freyr opposes limiting each world to a single colony, instead suggesting that each colony after the first should require that all colonies have a higher level of defences. This, when combined with the fact that each new colony will require approval from the Security Council, will ensure that colonies do not become a defensive liability while allowing multiple to be founded by each world.
Governor Olaf's main concern is the cause proposing that each colony have a secondary sponsor. He tells you that this situation is likely to either lead to major economic burdens for the secondary sponsor or a confused chain of command for the colony. Governor Olaf suggests that instead the Imperial Trust take over the sponsorship of any colony cut off from its sponsor.
Once your discussion of colonisation is complete you start to talk about the ship graveyard and what is contained within. They are amazed by the sheer number of hulks and suggest attempting to begin repair work immediately. Governor Olaf tells you that he has recently had his shipyards begin work on repairing the Helheim Pattern Defence Cruiser hulks and that almost a third of his shipyards are free. He suggests that the best way to handle collaborating on the repair of hulks is for either Vanaheim to buy hulks for double the amount that it reduces build costs by or for Avernus to commission Vanaheim to repair hulks for double the repair costs.
Admiral Freyr tells you that it would be best to be able to repair ships of every size, with a mix of lance and guns boats along with at least one carrier being the best combination. He suggests that focusing on the cheaper standard designs, which should be quicker to repair, until your numbers have been built up a bit. He also tells you that being able to repair the Command Battleships would be amazing as while they will be very expensive to operate he believes that the fire-power that each of them represents is enough to turn the tide of a major naval engagement.
On your final topic, the fact that your air force needs retraining, Governor Olaf is willing to both send you some of his air instructors and have some of your own instructors spend some time on Vanaheim to teach them Vanaheim's methods of training. At a price of course.
The next day the meeting starts off with a request for you to provide your suggestion on colonization.
Once the High Council Meeting ended for the day you wasted no time in arranging a meeting with Governor Olaf and Admiral Freyr. The main purpose of the meeting is to discuss colonisation but you also plan to talk about the ship graveyard.
After a bit of small talk you begin by comparing notes about the general views on colonisation in the Imperial Trust. It seems both you and Vanaheim have received similar responses to your enquiries so you can immediately begin coming up with ideas.
1: Midgard, Mechanicus, and the Security Council are focused on defenses, requiring min lvl of defenses, with stages of defenses that need to be built up (Mech. want to tie STC availability to these levels, and Security Council wants colonizers to get their permission first). Nilfheim has a related concern that we should avoid claiming planets claimed by other powers and get drawn into fights.
2: Alfheim is worried that we will become overextended with too many colonies.
3: Muspelheim wants to ensure eventual independence and ability to advance to Low and even High Council. Prevent any abuses.
4: Vanaheim, Jotunheim, and the Inquisition feel that colonies should remain under their colonizer, but with safe guards to prevent abuses, and ensure a right to petition the High Council.
5: Asgard proposes full Feudal System with colonies sworn to colonizers in exchange for protection and aid.
6: Svartalfheim proposes two types of colonies: full colonies (which have a path to eventual independence and safe guards) vs resource colonies which are solely for the exploitation of the colonizer (probably on inhospitable worlds with lots of metal and promethium).
2: Alfheim is worried that we will become overextended with too many colonies.
3: Muspelheim wants to ensure eventual independence and ability to advance to Low and even High Council. Prevent any abuses.
4: Vanaheim, Jotunheim, and the Inquisition feel that colonies should remain under their colonizer, but with safe guards to prevent abuses, and ensure a right to petition the High Council.
5: Asgard proposes full Feudal System with colonies sworn to colonizers in exchange for protection and aid.
6: Svartalfheim proposes two types of colonies: full colonies (which have a path to eventual independence and safe guards) vs resource colonies which are solely for the exploitation of the colonizer (probably on inhospitable worlds with lots of metal and promethium).
Your initial basic framework and questions that must be debated are well received by both Governor Olaf and Admiral Freyr. They each oppose certain sections of your proposal but are otherwise happy with it.
1: Thank Svartalfheim for pointing out the possibility of a difference between full and resource colonies. Discuss the suggested differences. Propose that any system containing a human habitable planet must be established as a full colony. Propose that this Council only concern itself with establishing rules for full colonies as we have a series of questions to still answer on resource colonies. Rules for resource colonies (including if they are allowed) will be decided at a future Council after we have answers to the following questions:
a. What level of defenses are acceptable for a resource colony? Must the resource colony be setup so abandonment can occur easily? To what extent can we create resource colonies without overextending the Imperial Trust military? Propose the Security Council be given the task to evaluate these issues and present their findings and recommendations to the Council in ten years.
b. What STCs can be safely extended to a resource colony? Which ones cannot? How will this impact resource production? How viable will the resource colonies be? Propose that the Mechanics be given the task to evaluate these questions, with the assistance of Trust Administorum experts on efficiency. That the findings and recommendations be presented to the Council in ten years.
c. What would be required to protect resource colonies from rebellion threats and Chaotic infiltration? Propose the Inquisition, Ministorum, and representatives from the various Arbites organizations form a committee to review this question, and present their findings and recommendations to the Council in ten years.
d. What if resource colonies want to become full colonies? Some inhospitable and resource extraction planets can become major systems. Look at Nilfheim and Muspelheim. Will there be a method for resource colonies to advance if they prove themselves viable? Will they have the right to petition? Propose that the Governors consider these questions and that we discuss it again in ten years.
e. Point out that we need to know more about the density and distribution of resources in the surrounding systems to help us in evaluating this idea. Method to gain this knowledge to be addressed in a different proposal.
2: Propose that when a system wishes to establish a full colony they must seek initial approval from the Security Council, which shall evaluate both the extent to which it would extend the military resources of the Imperial Trust, and if there are any competing claims by outside powers that could entangle us in conflicts. Security Council decisions are preliminary until the next High Council meeting which will either approve or overrule the Security Council decision. The High Council must always approve the settlement of a system claimed by an outside power prior to colonization efforts beginning. (Point out Fjol IV as an instance where we would support colonization despite being claimed by an outside power - the Dark Eldar - because we'd be fighting them anyway.)
3: Propose that full colonies must have a minimum level of defenses, with STC availability tied to those defense levels. That there are required defense improvements that must happen by a certain number of years after colonization.
4: Propose that each system in the Imperial Trust can sponsor no more than one full colony at a time. However, systems that are uninterested in colonization may trade their sponsorship slot to another system. Or cooperate with another system in a joint settlement of their colony. This will prevent us from becoming overextended and limit us to nine full colonies at most at one time. It also provides incentives for colonizers to help their colonies achieve independence. The High Council can approve exceptions to this policy.
5: Propose that full colonies have protections: maximum taxation rate, a minimum portion of a colony's taxes that must be spent on it, a local government drawn from local residents, and right to petition the High Council (by the local government).
6: Propose that full colonies shall be established with the expectation of independence within one hundred years, at which point they will gain a seat on the Low Council. However, a favorable long term trade agreement may be established between the colony and colonizer, that can extend for no longer than 100 years after independence. If a colony has not achieved independence within one hundred years of its founding, it may petition the High Council to be moved from the colonizer's control and be directly administered by the Imperial Trust instead. In such cases the Trust will act to improve the colony to full independence as soon as possible.
7: Propose that full colonies must have at least one secondary sponsor (selected by the primary sponsor with agreement by the secondary), who, if the primary sponsor is cut off by warp storm, will take on responsibility for the defense and maintenance of the colony. If all the sponsors are cut off, then the Imperial Trust shall appoint a temporary sponsor until such time as the original sponsors are available.
8: Propose that over the next ten years, each system begin an initial exploration of their nearby systems for an assessment of resources and ease of colonization. And to establish Imperial Trust claims prior to the collapse of the Warp Storm. With aid by the Imperial Trust Navy to systems proportionate to the size of their system navy (offering more help to those with smaller fleets). Information gained to be shared at the next Council in ten years, when we assess the feasibility of resource colonies. Any current information (based on old records or more recent Navy scouting) to be shared with all Trust members at the conclusion of this Council so as to allow more efficient exploration over the next ten years.
a. What level of defenses are acceptable for a resource colony? Must the resource colony be setup so abandonment can occur easily? To what extent can we create resource colonies without overextending the Imperial Trust military? Propose the Security Council be given the task to evaluate these issues and present their findings and recommendations to the Council in ten years.
b. What STCs can be safely extended to a resource colony? Which ones cannot? How will this impact resource production? How viable will the resource colonies be? Propose that the Mechanics be given the task to evaluate these questions, with the assistance of Trust Administorum experts on efficiency. That the findings and recommendations be presented to the Council in ten years.
c. What would be required to protect resource colonies from rebellion threats and Chaotic infiltration? Propose the Inquisition, Ministorum, and representatives from the various Arbites organizations form a committee to review this question, and present their findings and recommendations to the Council in ten years.
d. What if resource colonies want to become full colonies? Some inhospitable and resource extraction planets can become major systems. Look at Nilfheim and Muspelheim. Will there be a method for resource colonies to advance if they prove themselves viable? Will they have the right to petition? Propose that the Governors consider these questions and that we discuss it again in ten years.
e. Point out that we need to know more about the density and distribution of resources in the surrounding systems to help us in evaluating this idea. Method to gain this knowledge to be addressed in a different proposal.
2: Propose that when a system wishes to establish a full colony they must seek initial approval from the Security Council, which shall evaluate both the extent to which it would extend the military resources of the Imperial Trust, and if there are any competing claims by outside powers that could entangle us in conflicts. Security Council decisions are preliminary until the next High Council meeting which will either approve or overrule the Security Council decision. The High Council must always approve the settlement of a system claimed by an outside power prior to colonization efforts beginning. (Point out Fjol IV as an instance where we would support colonization despite being claimed by an outside power - the Dark Eldar - because we'd be fighting them anyway.)
3: Propose that full colonies must have a minimum level of defenses, with STC availability tied to those defense levels. That there are required defense improvements that must happen by a certain number of years after colonization.
4: Propose that each system in the Imperial Trust can sponsor no more than one full colony at a time. However, systems that are uninterested in colonization may trade their sponsorship slot to another system. Or cooperate with another system in a joint settlement of their colony. This will prevent us from becoming overextended and limit us to nine full colonies at most at one time. It also provides incentives for colonizers to help their colonies achieve independence. The High Council can approve exceptions to this policy.
5: Propose that full colonies have protections: maximum taxation rate, a minimum portion of a colony's taxes that must be spent on it, a local government drawn from local residents, and right to petition the High Council (by the local government).
6: Propose that full colonies shall be established with the expectation of independence within one hundred years, at which point they will gain a seat on the Low Council. However, a favorable long term trade agreement may be established between the colony and colonizer, that can extend for no longer than 100 years after independence. If a colony has not achieved independence within one hundred years of its founding, it may petition the High Council to be moved from the colonizer's control and be directly administered by the Imperial Trust instead. In such cases the Trust will act to improve the colony to full independence as soon as possible.
7: Propose that full colonies must have at least one secondary sponsor (selected by the primary sponsor with agreement by the secondary), who, if the primary sponsor is cut off by warp storm, will take on responsibility for the defense and maintenance of the colony. If all the sponsors are cut off, then the Imperial Trust shall appoint a temporary sponsor until such time as the original sponsors are available.
8: Propose that over the next ten years, each system begin an initial exploration of their nearby systems for an assessment of resources and ease of colonization. And to establish Imperial Trust claims prior to the collapse of the Warp Storm. With aid by the Imperial Trust Navy to systems proportionate to the size of their system navy (offering more help to those with smaller fleets). Information gained to be shared at the next Council in ten years, when we assess the feasibility of resource colonies. Any current information (based on old records or more recent Navy scouting) to be shared with all Trust members at the conclusion of this Council so as to allow more efficient exploration over the next ten years.
Admiral Freyr opposes limiting each world to a single colony, instead suggesting that each colony after the first should require that all colonies have a higher level of defences. This, when combined with the fact that each new colony will require approval from the Security Council, will ensure that colonies do not become a defensive liability while allowing multiple to be founded by each world.
Governor Olaf's main concern is the cause proposing that each colony have a secondary sponsor. He tells you that this situation is likely to either lead to major economic burdens for the secondary sponsor or a confused chain of command for the colony. Governor Olaf suggests that instead the Imperial Trust take over the sponsorship of any colony cut off from its sponsor.
Once your discussion of colonisation is complete you start to talk about the ship graveyard and what is contained within. They are amazed by the sheer number of hulks and suggest attempting to begin repair work immediately. Governor Olaf tells you that he has recently had his shipyards begin work on repairing the Helheim Pattern Defence Cruiser hulks and that almost a third of his shipyards are free. He suggests that the best way to handle collaborating on the repair of hulks is for either Vanaheim to buy hulks for double the amount that it reduces build costs by or for Avernus to commission Vanaheim to repair hulks for double the repair costs.
Admiral Freyr tells you that it would be best to be able to repair ships of every size, with a mix of lance and guns boats along with at least one carrier being the best combination. He suggests that focusing on the cheaper standard designs, which should be quicker to repair, until your numbers have been built up a bit. He also tells you that being able to repair the Command Battleships would be amazing as while they will be very expensive to operate he believes that the fire-power that each of them represents is enough to turn the tide of a major naval engagement.
On your final topic, the fact that your air force needs retraining, Governor Olaf is willing to both send you some of his air instructors and have some of your own instructors spend some time on Vanaheim to teach them Vanaheim's methods of training. At a price of course.
The next day the meeting starts off with a request for you to provide your suggestion on colonization.
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Well I'd be happy to increase local production, but as long as we can afford to import the Exotic Material we need I think we should continue building the Knights. They are a huge force multiplier for the Imperial Trust.
Unlikely that they will be available for Nilfhiem, as I'm sure Vanaheim will dedicate most of them other duties, if not with us, then with other places. Can't hurt to ask anyway.
We'll probably also want to sell them a bunch of Defense Monitors. It's the quickest way to get their orbital defenses up to snuff.
Not anymore. Remember that we already expanded our factories? We are now producing a surplus of over 800 million material a year, and even with expanding defenses we still added ~4 billion to our reserves. Now our reserves are a bit low, but we can totally trade a little material away (under 50 million), and we don't need to trade for it.
I'm not suggesting that we increase their debt at all. I suggest trading for Thrones, it won't even make a dent in thier Throne reserves. Also, I thought we cashed in most of that trade debt already? Anyway, even shipping them 5,000 food a year, that leaves us with 7,000 to 8,000 food in our reserves. We'll be full again within 20 years.
What other reason do we have to maintain our stockpile beyond that amount? I mainly picked 5,000 a year because it divides evenly into shipping.
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Sirrocco
Pedantic
Wait...
He's suggesting that we sell the hulks at a rate equal to twice the repair savings? So, let's say that building one fresh costs 1000 whatevers. You have a hulk that's half-busted, so rebuilding it is only going to cost 500 whatevers, saving 500 whatevers in the process. The suggestion is that we should sell this hulk for twice the savings, or 1000 whatevers? Does that make sense? Did you mean half?
He's suggesting that we sell the hulks at a rate equal to twice the repair savings? So, let's say that building one fresh costs 1000 whatevers. You have a hulk that's half-busted, so rebuilding it is only going to cost 500 whatevers, saving 500 whatevers in the process. The suggestion is that we should sell this hulk for twice the savings, or 1000 whatevers? Does that make sense? Did you mean half?
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
givent that he will then sell it for 2000 whatevers yes
I have no problem with any of these changes. Does anyone else?
I'll just change my draft to incorporate it, and present it as the proposals.
Sounds reasonable...
Okay... not a lot of help, but okay.
No, because at the end of the repair, Vanaheim would own the resulting ship and could then sell it.
Compared to the alternative, (commissioning at double the repair cost), which would result in Avernus owning the ship.
[X] Avenite-Vanaheim Colonization Proposals
@durin Did I correctly capture what we agreed on in the meeting? (Mainly #4 which I adjusted to match Admiral Freyr's proposal, and #7 which I adjusted to match Governor Oalf's.)
1: Thank Svartalfheim for pointing out the possibility of a difference between full and resource colonies. Discuss the suggested differences. Propose that any system containing a human habitable planet must be established as a full colony. Propose that this Council only concern itself with establishing rules for full colonies as we have a series of questions to still answer on resource colonies. Rules for resource colonies (including if they are allowed) will be decided at a future Council after we have answers to the following questions:
2: Propose that when a system wishes to establish a full colony they must seek initial approval from the Security Council, which shall evaluate both the extent to which it would extend the military resources of the Imperial Trust, and if there are any competing claims by outside powers that could entangle us in conflicts. Security Council decisions are preliminary until the next High Council meeting which will either approve or overrule the Security Council decision. The High Council must always approve the settlement of a system claimed by an outside power prior to colonization efforts beginning. (Point out Fjol IV as an instance where we would support colonization despite being claimed by an outside power - the Dark Eldar - because we'd be fighting them anyway.)
3: Propose that full colonies must have a minimum level of defenses, with STC availability tied to those defense levels. That there are required defense improvements that must happen by a certain number of years after colonization.
4: Propose that if a colonizing planet wishes to establish additional full colonies, that the level of defenses required for all colonies of that colonizer shall be increased. (To reduce the burden on the rest of the Imperial Trust). (Essentially Admiral Freyr's proposal).
5: Propose that full colonies have protections: maximum taxation rate, a minimum portion of a colony's taxes that must be spent on it, a local government drawn from local residents, and right to petition the High Council (by the local government).
6: Propose that full colonies shall be established with the expectation of independence within one hundred years, at which point they will gain a seat on the Low Council. However, a favorable long term trade agreement may be established between the colony and colonizer, that can extend for no longer than 100 years after independence. If a colony has not achieved independence within one hundred years of its founding, it may petition the High Council to be moved from the colonizer's control and be directly administered by the Imperial Trust instead. In such cases the Trust will act to improve the colony to full independence as soon as possible.
7: Propose that if the sponsor of a full colony is cut off by Warp Storm from being able to support it's colonies, then the Imperial Trust will take over sponsorship until the original sponsor returns.
8: Propose that over the next ten years, each system begin an initial exploration of their nearby systems for an assessment of resources and ease of colonization. And to establish Imperial Trust claims prior to the collapse of the Warp Storm. With aid by the Imperial Trust Navy to systems proportionate to the size of their system navy (offering more help to those with smaller fleets). Information gained to be shared at the next Council in ten years, when we assess the feasibility of resource colonies. Any current information (based on old records or more recent Navy scouting) to be shared with all Trust members at the conclusion of this Council so as to allow more efficient exploration over the next ten years.
@durin Did I correctly capture what we agreed on in the meeting? (Mainly #4 which I adjusted to match Admiral Freyr's proposal, and #7 which I adjusted to match Governor Oalf's.)
1: Thank Svartalfheim for pointing out the possibility of a difference between full and resource colonies. Discuss the suggested differences. Propose that any system containing a human habitable planet must be established as a full colony. Propose that this Council only concern itself with establishing rules for full colonies as we have a series of questions to still answer on resource colonies. Rules for resource colonies (including if they are allowed) will be decided at a future Council after we have answers to the following questions:
a. What level of defenses are acceptable for a resource colony? Must the resource colony be setup so abandonment can occur easily? To what extent can we create resource colonies without overextending the Imperial Trust military? Propose the Security Council be given the task to evaluate these issues and present their findings and recommendations to the Council in ten years.
b. What STCs can be safely extended to a resource colony? Which ones cannot? How will this impact resource production? How viable will the resource colonies be? Propose that the Mechanics be given the task to evaluate these questions, with the assistance of Trust Administorum experts on efficiency. That the findings and recommendations be presented to the Council in ten years.
c. What would be required to protect resource colonies from rebellion threats and Chaotic infiltration? Propose the Inquisition, Ministorum, and representatives from the various Arbites organizations form a committee to review this question, and present their findings and recommendations to the Council in ten years.
d. What if resource colonies want to become full colonies? Some inhospitable and resource extraction planets can become major systems. Look at Nilfheim and Muspelheim. Will there be a method for resource colonies to advance if they prove themselves viable? Will they have the right to petition? Propose that the Governors consider these questions and that we discuss it again in ten years.
e. Point out that we need to know more about the density and distribution of resources in the surrounding systems to help us in evaluating this idea. Method to gain this knowledge to be addressed in a different proposal.
b. What STCs can be safely extended to a resource colony? Which ones cannot? How will this impact resource production? How viable will the resource colonies be? Propose that the Mechanics be given the task to evaluate these questions, with the assistance of Trust Administorum experts on efficiency. That the findings and recommendations be presented to the Council in ten years.
c. What would be required to protect resource colonies from rebellion threats and Chaotic infiltration? Propose the Inquisition, Ministorum, and representatives from the various Arbites organizations form a committee to review this question, and present their findings and recommendations to the Council in ten years.
d. What if resource colonies want to become full colonies? Some inhospitable and resource extraction planets can become major systems. Look at Nilfheim and Muspelheim. Will there be a method for resource colonies to advance if they prove themselves viable? Will they have the right to petition? Propose that the Governors consider these questions and that we discuss it again in ten years.
e. Point out that we need to know more about the density and distribution of resources in the surrounding systems to help us in evaluating this idea. Method to gain this knowledge to be addressed in a different proposal.
2: Propose that when a system wishes to establish a full colony they must seek initial approval from the Security Council, which shall evaluate both the extent to which it would extend the military resources of the Imperial Trust, and if there are any competing claims by outside powers that could entangle us in conflicts. Security Council decisions are preliminary until the next High Council meeting which will either approve or overrule the Security Council decision. The High Council must always approve the settlement of a system claimed by an outside power prior to colonization efforts beginning. (Point out Fjol IV as an instance where we would support colonization despite being claimed by an outside power - the Dark Eldar - because we'd be fighting them anyway.)
3: Propose that full colonies must have a minimum level of defenses, with STC availability tied to those defense levels. That there are required defense improvements that must happen by a certain number of years after colonization.
4: Propose that if a colonizing planet wishes to establish additional full colonies, that the level of defenses required for all colonies of that colonizer shall be increased. (To reduce the burden on the rest of the Imperial Trust). (Essentially Admiral Freyr's proposal).
5: Propose that full colonies have protections: maximum taxation rate, a minimum portion of a colony's taxes that must be spent on it, a local government drawn from local residents, and right to petition the High Council (by the local government).
6: Propose that full colonies shall be established with the expectation of independence within one hundred years, at which point they will gain a seat on the Low Council. However, a favorable long term trade agreement may be established between the colony and colonizer, that can extend for no longer than 100 years after independence. If a colony has not achieved independence within one hundred years of its founding, it may petition the High Council to be moved from the colonizer's control and be directly administered by the Imperial Trust instead. In such cases the Trust will act to improve the colony to full independence as soon as possible.
7: Propose that if the sponsor of a full colony is cut off by Warp Storm from being able to support it's colonies, then the Imperial Trust will take over sponsorship until the original sponsor returns.
8: Propose that over the next ten years, each system begin an initial exploration of their nearby systems for an assessment of resources and ease of colonization. And to establish Imperial Trust claims prior to the collapse of the Warp Storm. With aid by the Imperial Trust Navy to systems proportionate to the size of their system navy (offering more help to those with smaller fleets). Information gained to be shared at the next Council in ten years, when we assess the feasibility of resource colonies. Any current information (based on old records or more recent Navy scouting) to be shared with all Trust members at the conclusion of this Council so as to allow more efficient exploration over the next ten years.
@durin, can I get a retcon on the width of the Magni Transporter? 15 meters is just too thin for something that's supposed to have internal bunkers. It would also have problems carrying 10K people. 30 meter would be much more reasonable, and give me more room to work with for my profiles. While we're on this subject, how high to the tracks go? I need to know where the upper platform begins.
- Location
- USA
nice thing about it is that it basically balances out, if we give them 10 ships they repair them and give us back 5, keeping 5 for themselves
although... maybe it would be better to have the trust pay vanaheim to repair ships that we sell it? or maybe a mix? say, 20% vanaheim, 40% trust, 40% us?
- Location
- USA
I believe he is suggesting at 2x savings.
So, let's say we have a hulk that is at 300/500. they will buy it for 600, twice the cost it would take them to build it from scratch, but saving many many years of labor
Alternatively, we could commission them to repair it for us for the same price.
That is doable, but the colonizer should be responsible for paying the trust back in such a case
I guess that is ok
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I think you mean that we can sell them ten ships, and with the gain pay for the repair of ten ships.
That results in Vanaheim getting five ships, we get five ships, and the Imperial Trust gets ten ships (50%).
Not sure why you are proposing trying to renegotiate those percentages, as it would require a 3/4 vote in the High Council.
[X] Avenite-Vanaheim Colonization Proposals
Works for me.
I was more just thinking 100 a year might be cut down to 50, depending on how much EM we can trade for this go around.
I'm fairly certain they'd be made available for Niflheim ASAP to build them orbital defenses - they have none, so that's a major weakness for the Trust.
We'd have to build some more if we're going to do that, unless we're willing to decrease the amount we have for our own defenses. Our yards are going to be busy with other ships, though. I suspect they'll buy from Vanaheim instead.
Henry mentioned that another expansion may be worth it. Actually, our net is much higher than it was before the last trade - I think the admin reorg and the educational upgrade resulted in a great increase in our net. IIRC it was ~650,000,000 a year with the trade from Svartalfheim, and now it's 827,525,650 a year. So yeah, maybe we don't need it. Though the expansion of the Major Cities might be a rather costly endeavor...
They still owe us 1112 Credits, a bit over a trillion credits worth by the relevant trade at the time.
Anyways, maintaining our own stockpile is for the event of a siege where production may be disrupted, or for an emergency where we need to send mass quantities of food somewhere. Shipping them most of our excess should be sufficient.
Nope, works for me.
No, it's a fair amount of help. For the Cruisers we'll want to open up the Line Cruisers and/or some of its variants. For the carrier we could do either the Line Cruiser's Carrier variant or the Light Cruiser one that isn't meant for raiding. The Hunter Destroyer might also be worthwhile as our short range slugger to open up.
Yes, it's a pretty fair deal in either direction, and we can do both. Sell them a bunch of smaller ships, and then
Works for me.
I was more just thinking 100 a year might be cut down to 50, depending on how much EM we can trade for this go around.
I'm fairly certain they'd be made available for Niflheim ASAP to build them orbital defenses - they have none, so that's a major weakness for the Trust.
We'd have to build some more if we're going to do that, unless we're willing to decrease the amount we have for our own defenses. Our yards are going to be busy with other ships, though. I suspect they'll buy from Vanaheim instead.
Henry mentioned that another expansion may be worth it. Actually, our net is much higher than it was before the last trade - I think the admin reorg and the educational upgrade resulted in a great increase in our net. IIRC it was ~650,000,000 a year with the trade from Svartalfheim, and now it's 827,525,650 a year. So yeah, maybe we don't need it. Though the expansion of the Major Cities might be a rather costly endeavor...
They still owe us 1112 Credits, a bit over a trillion credits worth by the relevant trade at the time.
Anyways, maintaining our own stockpile is for the event of a siege where production may be disrupted, or for an emergency where we need to send mass quantities of food somewhere. Shipping them most of our excess should be sufficient.
Nope, works for me.
No, it's a fair amount of help. For the Cruisers we'll want to open up the Line Cruisers and/or some of its variants. For the carrier we could do either the Line Cruiser's Carrier variant or the Light Cruiser one that isn't meant for raiding. The Hunter Destroyer might also be worthwhile as our short range slugger to open up.
Yes, it's a pretty fair deal in either direction, and we can do both. Sell them a bunch of smaller ships, and then
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- Location
- USA
You misread. I said we give them 0 thrones and 10 ships to fix and of those 10 they give us back 5 while keeping 5.
I wasn't trying to negotiate any percentages. I was merely pointing out that at the price they are offering we could perform this as a cashless transaction with that ratio.
I then made an unrelated suggestion which I separated, this suggestion was that instead of all the ships being split between the two of us, we should use cash transaction after all, and for that I suggested
40% of ships are to be repaired in a cashless transaction as per their suggestion split of half and half. (giving each of us 20% of the total output)
20% of ships are to be repaired for us, we will pay them cash for this
40% of ships are to be sold to the imperial trust, who would pay us cash for it, and then pay them cash to repair them.
And the above figure was just a rough idea.
Although I guess it does come off as snubbing them a bit. Maybe a straight 3 way split is better with each of us getting 1/3rd and the last 1/3rd sold to the trust for cash that will be split between the two of us
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