The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

[Reynal]

Also, on the whole bringing wildlife off world front I'm chill with a blanket ban on taking anything to Trust worlds. I would argue for our ability to bring wildlife as part of military campaigns or to any colony worlds we make, at least on a case by case basis.

Honestly though, I see this proposal as working out as two issues pushed together, perhaps by accident. The first issue is exactly who needs to be notified/gets a say in what we're doing when we negotiate with sapient Avernite species. On that front, I'd be fine with the proposal as is, or we could throw the people who are worried a bone and offer them something like the option to have observers in system who can look over deals we make, with the option of flagging them for high council attention. Really, the issue here boils down to if we're willing to take a bit of a diplomatic hit to make others concede us the right to fully manage our relations with the other species on our planet, even though they're not human, as long as they aren't warp-capable. Personally, I don't think it's worth it, especially given our efforts to try and tie the Trust together, so I'm hoping to throw a bone to the groups that are against it.

The second issue to what extent Avernite species can be brought off world and who is responsible for them. The policy suggested is that we can decide, but will be held personally responsible for any outcomes. Honestly I'm not too big a fan of that--I just know that some idiot noble will decide that phase tiger kittens are cute, and that she must have one or something. I would argue that the standards for accountability should include that it's not our problem if they decide to let it in and something goes wrong, and I think that there should be a caveat for us taking all reasonable precautions. However, I think that most of the efforts should focus on making sure our internal controls are up to scratch so this never becomes an issue.

 

[Enjou]

@durin - Do we spay/neuter any Phase Tigers that are used in a regiment or as a psyker's familiar? The regiment by the same name has taken their own Phase Tigers off world a few times, but I was wondering if that basic precaution was taken. (and figured it might be needed so that males don't get aggressive with one another when made to work together)

 

[drewski346]

@durin - Do we spay/neuter any Phase Tigers that are used in a regiment or as a psyker's familiar? The regiment by the same name has taken their own Phase Tigers off world a few times, but I was wondering if that basic precaution was taken. (and figured it might be needed so that males don't get aggressive with one another when made to work together)

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Unless we take sperm samples before hand that seems like a major waste of potential. We really should be breeding a more domesticated breed of tiger from the ones we have already tamed. I'd suggest taling only one gender of tiger off world at any time instead.

 

[Enjou]

Unless we talk sperm samples before hand that seems like a major waste of potential. We really should be breeding a more domesticated breed of tiger from the ones we have already tamed. I'd suggest taling only one gender of tiger off world at any time instead.

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I was just asking regarding the ones in actual military service - those in the enclosures that aren't taken into service would serve as our breeding population. Also, as I pointed out, spaying/neutering may be necessary to use them as military animals - gelding has long been a common practice for male horses for both domestic and military use, as it makes them better behaved.

Also, I'll note it may not be particularly necessary to breed a more domesticated breed, as the current ones are already tameable to an incredibly high degree as long as they are exposed to humans from around birth. Also, as pointed out in the update, we don't want them to get too domesticated, as we require a degree of aggression for their use as military animals.

 

[Andres]

Latz Super Shield Generator​

The Latz Super Shield Generator is a prototype shield generator created by the humans of the Dark Age of Humanity designed to be fitted to ships. The Latz Super Shield Generator produces a shield far more powerful than a typical void shield generator, its single layer being the equivalent of 15 void shield layers. Through some unknown means, it can stop torpedoes and enemy strikecraft just as well as it can lances and macrocannons while somehow allowing friendly strikecraft through the shield. To top it all off, it draws very little power from the reactor and can be used in conjunction with conventional void shields without issue.

While the Latz Super Shield is incredibly powerful and there are no apparent weaknesses in its defence, it was a prototype still in development and thus comes with its fair share of flaws. Firstly, it can not be turned off as regular void shields could. The only way to take down the shield is by shooting at it from the outside. Secondly, the shield can only be activated once the generatorias fully charged. Thirdly, and most importantly, is the method for recharging the shield. Whereas a regular void shield generator draws from the power created by the ship's reactor, the generator for the Latz Super Shield is charged by gathering the raw power of the Warp. This power can only be gathered while the ship is inside the Warp itself and by weakening the Gellar fields to the point that minor Warp phenomena begins to occur, bringing with it some severe risks for multiple obvious reasons.

It's theorised that psykers could instead be used to charge the generator (a lack of psykers made this option unavailable to the humans of the Dark Age) but it would take a long time to determine the validity of the theory and the research would carry its own risks. The shields would also likely take a long time to recharge this way, considering they're meant to withstand many times the destructive capacity of what even an Alpha psyker could produce.

 

[Knightfall]

Latz Super Shield Generator​

The Latz Super Shield Generator is a prototype shield generator created by the humans of the Dark Age of Humanity designed to be fitted to ships. The Latz Super Shield Generator produces a shield far more powerful than a typical void shield generator, its single layer being the equivalent of 15 void shield layers. Through some unknown means, it can stop torpedoes and enemy strikecraft just as well as it can lances and macrocannons while somehow allowing friendly strikecraft through the shield. To top it all off, it draws very little power from the reactor and can be used in conjunction with conventional void shields without issue.

While the Latz Super Shield is incredibly powerful and there are no apparent weaknesses in its defence, it was a prototype still in development and thus comes with its fair share of flaws. Firstly, it can not be turned off as regular void shields could. The only way to take down the shield is by shooting at it from the outside. Secondly, the shield can only be activated once the generatorias fully charged. Thirdly, and most importantly, is the method for recharging the shield. Whereas a regular void shield generator draws from the power created by the ship's reactor, the generator for the Latz Super Shield is charged by gathering the raw power of the Warp. This power can only be gathered while the ship is inside the Warp itself and by weakening the Gellar fields to the point that minor Warp phenomena begins to occur, bringing with it some severe risks for multiple obvious reasons.

It's theorised that psykers could instead be used to charge the generator (a lack of psykers made this option unavailable to the humans of the Dark Age) but it would take a long time to determine the validity of the theory and the research would carry its own risks. The shields would also likely take a long time to recharge, considering they're meant to withstand many times the destructive capacity of what even an Alpha psyker could produce.

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Wow that is OP.

 

[Portec]

Wow that is OP.

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You do not ask for a nerf so your priorities are straight. Good work!

 

[Elder Haman]

Your thinking of the Thunderbolt. The Thunderhawk is the Astartes transport.

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Ah, right. Objections withdrawn.

 

[random_npc]

Latz Super Shield Generator​

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been playing a lot of FTL recently? though I like the bit of extra finagling you gave it, namely how you created a way to bring up the shield on some (only a few because you can't get your psykers out without lowering the shield) non warp capable vessels with enough warning.

 

[Enjou]

Ok, my thoughts...

1. Either support or abstain on the proposal by Olaf. If a secretive organization is to have oversight, then it's leaders have to be known to those who are supposed to give them oversight.

2. I would support the bill regarding our wildlife. I don't mind the Inquisition having some oversight, but we might want to propose some additional things regarding our wildlife. We might propose some kind of regulatory agency run by the Low Council to vet whether or not wildlife of a particular type should be taken off of a world, and what circumstances that is acceptable under - military use during an invasion, psyker familiars, domestic uses, etc. This would apply to all worlds, and not just Avernus, as potentially invasive species could be imported from a new colony or something along those lines if that isn't regulated. Vetting the use of Phase Tigers during offworld military campaigns would probably be the first subject they'd consider.

3. We need to propose the Quartok protectorate.

Aside from that, I don't think anything else needs to be dealt with at this time. Anyone else have any thoughts?

 

[Riggnarock]

I really want that shield

 

[Elder Haman]

The first proposal is by Governor Olaf and is that Inquisitor Lords should be required to make themselves known to the High Council but ordinary Inquisitors should not. This should add another layer of oversight to the Inquisition while allowing them to fulfil their tasks.

This suggestion is highly popular and will undoubtedly pass, despite the opposition by the Inquisition.

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Okay... so this measure is going to pass. Therefor I don't see this as a debate on the merits, but rather a debate on how to best position ourselves. Options are:

Support: Probably has no effect on our standing, we are going along with the crowd

Abstain: Might make the Inquisition slightly more favorable towards us, might cause the other governors to associate us with the Inquisition

Oppose: A symbolic vote. Will probably cause the other governors to view us as allied with the Inquisition. Might make the Inquisition slightly more favorable towards us.

Propose an alternative: Nothing really comes to mind. Perhaps having the Inquisition give a more detailed report to the High Council of their activities, but that's not going to go over well with the Inquisition either.

Based on that I think our reasonable choices narrow down to Support or Abstain.

Considering the next proposal, I'm leaning towards Abstain.

The second proposal, put forward by Lord Marshal Sigurd of Asgard, is to make all creatures native to Avernus purely the responsibility of the Governor of Avernus and the Inquisition as long as they remain in the Avernus system. This will allow you to legally interact with your wildlife to a greater extent but will also give the Inquisition greater influence over your actions.

Currently Asgard, Muspelheim, Midgard and the Adeptus Mechanicus are supporting this proposal.
Currently Vanaheim, Jotunheim, Alfheim and the Security Council are opposing this proposal.
Svartalfheim, Niflheim and the Inquisition are undecided.

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Okay, so on thinking this over, I think the problem here is that this has combined two different concerns into one proposal.

The first concern is over non-sentient wildlife escaping Avernus. Here we want more leeway regarding the taming of useful creatures, and want some method of approving deployment of Avernite Wildlife with our military. A lesser matter is the ability to export certain useful non threatening wildlife (such as the Calming Butcher Bird). We don't want to have to bother the High Council every time.

The second concern is over negotiations with sentient xenos like the Trolls and the Sirens. On this subject I think we want to go slow, but eventually we probably would like to establish some sort of protectorate relationship if possible to fully exploit them. So I'd like some leeway, but want to give the High Council some sort of consulting position so that they don't get blindsided, and so we can identify opposition to various actions without having to Sound Out everyone each time we try to make a treaty with a xenos.

Maybe a counseling committee made of a representative each of the Mechanicus (Biologus division), The Inquisition, and the Security Council. To be sent to Avernus to serve as observation and consulting group for the Avernite Governor in dealing with native sentient xenos. Understood that they can elevate concerns to the High Council if they feel concerns are not being properly addressed?

So not actually giving them control over what we do, but making sure they feel we aren't hiding anything from them. I think we want to do this pretty much above board.

So I think we make a counter proposal to split this into to two different issues. I have an idea how to write up the first one in detail, but want some more debate on the second before writing something up.

Second proposal, why don't we counter-offer allowing interested parties in the Trust to send us a representative, and run our ideas/data by them at the proposal stage (i.e. before we would select it from a list/the terms of a peace treaty). Give them the ability to force us to bring the issue to the rest of the trust for approval as well as address any issues at the bud. Basically the idea would be to give any of the worried parties a fair bit of oversight and keep them in the loop without us having to spend so much effort being proactive in handling that stuff or needing to bug everyone every time we want to scratch our nose.

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That's pretty much what I was thinking.

First I would propose the creation of a joint military academy in the Trust. The goal of this academy would be to familiarize higher officers with procedure and tactics for joint operations, as well as to increase ties between Trust worlds and spread tactics and expertise between different worlds.

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That's a nice idea...

Then, well, I guess this would be the time to bring up the Quartoks...

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Yup. I already wrote up an argument. I'll move that over into a proposal form. Maybe at lunch? Or maybe tonight. Depending on if the usual Friday crisis hits again.

How about we suggest that we modify the Avernian Wildlife Proposal such that we need to get the opinion of the entire High Council before we make any treaties and we require a majority of approval from them before making any treaty provides more than raw material?

Or something along those lines.

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I think that removes way too much of our control over the issue.

Example of how this would work: Those hundreds of thousands killed every year by Avernus Wildlife? Oh, they are suddenly the personal fault of the governor of Avernus and the members of the inquisition, legally speaking. A tourist goes petting strange wildlife, unarmed, and of course dies. With that proposal? Legally, our fault.

As it's written right now, that proposal is a setup to a political attack to neutralize or destroy against us and the inquisition.

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I doubt that is the intent. The point is that the High Council should butt out of what Avernus is doing with wildlife as long as it stays in Avernus.

What do Psyker Hunters do, again?

Cause, um, I don't think we're at the point where psyker hunters are at 'overcapacity'.

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Jane said six years ago that in ten years we would have enough Psyker Hunters to export them.

... @durin How will this interact with our phase tiger familiars?

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Yes, this needs to be addressed.

You will need permission from the High Council to take them offworld in the current format, you can try to suggest a new format

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Definitely need a counter proposal

Also, as I pointed out, spaying/neutering may be necessary to use them as military animals - gelding has long been a common practice for male horses for both domestic and military use, as it makes them better behaved.

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Maybe, though the opposite is possible. Warhorses actually were often required to be stallions for the additional aggressiveness and violence. It wasn't until they became primarily pack animals that geldings became more common.

 

[AvidFicReader]

While Trust oversight of our usage of native Avernite organisms is a sensible proposal, and vetting tamed Phase Tigers for military deployment off-world shouldn't be too difficult, there is still the matter of our weaponized Life-Eater Fungus Deathstrikes. Those will definitely be banned by everyone, especially if they somehow found that we considered deploying them on Fjol IV (rather than siege the DE fortress, I believe the proposal was). Should the other High Lords or Trust representatives find out about them without our disclosure, things would look very bad for us.

 

[Enjou]

Okay, so on thinking this over, I think the problem here is that this has combined two different concerns into one proposal.

The first concern is over non-sentient wildlife escaping Avernus. Here we want more leeway regarding the taming of useful creatures, and want some method of approving deployment of Avernite Wildlife with our military. A lesser matter is the ability to export certain useful non threatening wildlife (such as the Calming Butcher Bird). We don't want to have to bother the High Council every time.

The second concern is over negotiations with sentient xenos like the Trolls and the Sirens. On this subject I think we want to go slow, but eventually we probably would like to establish some sort of protectorate relationship if possible to fully exploit them. So I'd like some leeway, but want to give the High Council some sort of consulting position so that they don't get blindsided, and so we can identify opposition to various actions without having to Sound Out everyone each time we try to make a treaty with a xenos.

Maybe a counseling committee made of a representative each of the Mechanicus (Biologus division), The Inquisition, and the Security Council. To be sent to Avernus to serve as observation and consulting group for the Avernite Governor in dealing with native sentient xenos. Understood that they can elevate concerns to the High Council if they feel concerns are not being properly addressed?

So not actually giving them control over what we do, but making sure they feel we aren't hiding anything from them. I think we want to do this pretty much above board.

So I think we make a counter proposal to split this into to two different issues. I have an idea how to write up the first one in detail, but want some more debate on the second before writing something up.

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I like these ideas. I think both issues could be handled by one agency, with the sapient xenos being handled by a subset of the agency.

The overall board would be our own version of the Environmental Protection Agency, just with some extra functions. The subset would be what you propose, giving oversight for dealings with sapient natives.

I'll try writing something up.

 

[Nervos Belli]

I like these ideas. I think both issues could be handled by one agency, with the sapient xenos being handled by a subset of the agency.

The overall board would be our own version of the Environmental Protection Agency, just with some extra functions. The subset would be what you propose, giving oversight for dealings with sapient natives.

I'll try writing something up.

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I'm pretty sure the EPA is supposed to protect the environment from humans, not the other way around.

 

[Jexx]

Aside from that, I don't think anything else needs to be dealt with at this time. Anyone else have any thoughts?

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Alfheim. It's status as Agri-world is more of a problem than advantage, since Midgar is only significant food importer, and even they massively reduced their food deficit via hydroponics.

It is currently in the process of (slowly) becoming a civilized world (If one unusually agriculture-heavy). Personally, I am willing to provide resources and manpower to speed it up. Perhaps commission Saren to design a plant that produce useful chemicals? Starting with one optimized for bio-fuel processing.

 

[Elder Haman]

Alfheim. It's status as Agri-world is more of a problem than advantage, since Midgar is only significant food importer, and even they massively reduced their food deficit via hydroponics.

It is currently in the process of (slowly) becoming a civilized world (If one unusually agriculture-heavy). Personally, I am willing to provide resources and manpower to speed it up. Perhaps commission Saren to design a plant that produce useful chemicals? Starting with one optimized for bio-fuel processing.

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I agree with the sentiment, but I think that is better approached as a side deal between us and Alfheim, not as part of the Council meeting.

Maybe if we find warproot and investigate it and it's safe to do so, we can send it off world as a cash crop for Alfheim to grow.

 

[Elder Haman]

Actually... Exotics and to a lesser extent Advanced Materials are still our main bottleneck.

I'm sort of wondering if we should approach the Mechanicus about founding Forge Cities in various systems. Midgard, Vanaheim (orbital), Asgard, and Alfheim are the obvious candidates. (The rest of the Nine Worlds aren't such good fits.) Make the one on Alfheim Biologus focused.

It would be something for our Mechanicus Construction slot to work on. Negotiate with the various systems to pay the material costs, but we assign the manpower to do it. Just get the basic Forge Cities set up, that the other system can then expend resources on expanding.

It would also help further integrate the Mechanicus with the rest of the Nine Worlds.

@durin Is this possible?

 

[Elder Haman]

I like these ideas. I think both issues could be handled by one agency, with the sapient xenos being handled by a subset of the agency.

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I agree they should be the same body. Don't see why they need to be a whole agency. A simple board of three (one from the Mechanicus, one from the Inquisition, and one from the Security Council) ought to be enough.

They're just there to sign off on what we are doing, not actually doing anything themselves.

 

[Artemis1992]

Alfheim is already turning much of their harvest into bio-fuel. They are already on a good path and I don't think we need to start anything there, just wait and help if they ask for it.

 

[Jexx]

I agree with the sentiment, but I think that is better approached as a side deal between us and Alfheim, not as part of the Council meeting.

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I was thinking that involving at least Muspelheim (Surt almost certainly would like to help) and Midgar (to pay of some of their debt) would allow us to move much faster than doing it alone. Vanaheim could also export some if it's surplus workers.

That's five worlds already. On the other hand, if Alfheim reject it for some reason, that would look bad for us.

Leaving it for post-meeting negotiations suddenly starts looking better and better.

 

[Fanhunter696]

Guys, I need your help, I'm thinking of a new knight design with thrusters (similar to the Tau XV8 Crisis) But I am very bad thinking of names for anything, so do you have any suggestions for a name?

 

[Enjou]

I agree they should be the same body. Don't see why they need to be a whole agency. A simple board of three (one from the Mechanicus, one from the Inquisition, and one from the Security Council) ought to be enough.

They're just there to sign off on what we are doing, not actually doing anything themselves.

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For the committee that small of a group would be enough, but I think something larger needs to be established to deal with the issue of offworld use of wildlife in general. The heads of the agency would require staff and advisers to ensure they are doing their job appropriately. Further, I'm not viewing this as a solely Avernus measure - we will be expanding and colonizing other worlds. Some other worlds in the future might have native wildlife, which while not necessarily threatening like on Avernus, could be invasive if exported to a different world. Initially it wouldn't be a very big agency, having perhaps a few thousand people at most to start, but it would likely grow as we start colonizing worlds.

 

[Enjou]

Ok, here's my first draft write-up for the agency to regulate wildlife:

1. The native wildlife of a system is the responsibility of the system's government so long as it remains in the system.

2. The Departmento Biologis will be established as a branch of the Administratum in order to create regulations regarding the deployment and exportation of native wildlife from their worlds of origin. This will include uses both military and domestic. They will also be responsible for providing oversight to ensure that dangerous or invasive species are not exported by accident. This agency must have experts from related fields available for consultation, such as from the Biologis division of the Adeptus Mechanicus and the Security Council.

Examples to give the Council as it pertains to Avernus:
- Reviewing the measure taken to prevent Blink Spiders from escaping Avernus are adequate, and occasionally performing inspections to ensure that the measures are adhered to.
- Determining the regulations for use of Phase Tigers in off-world deployments, both as part of military regiments and as psyker familiars. Included in these regulations would be matters regarding who would be held responsible should undue harm be caused by one of these animals - the animal's handlers, for instance.
- Determining the circumstances in which it is acceptable to use weaponized Life Eater Fungus off of Avernus. Example rules for this might be free use against Tyranid invasions of sufficient scale (as the alternative could be loss of all life on the planet) or with the permission of the system government.
- (Pure hypothetical cases, as study still needs to be done) Export of Nogs as livestock animals. Export of Calming Butcher Birds as pets or for law enforcement use.

This agency will initially start fairly small, and while Avernus would be it's primary concern for the time being it will likely grow in the future when worlds with their own native biospheres are colonized.

3. A subset of the Departmento Biologis will be the Native Xeno Oversight Committee. This committee will be specifically responsible for oversight regarding sapient native species and the interactions a system government has with them. It will serve to advise the system government regarding these interactions and keep the High Council members appraised. In the event of the system taking what is considered a dangerous interaction (such as attempting to "uplift" a species) they shall have the authority to halt the interaction until it can be brought to a vote by the High Council. This committee will be made up of a representative from the Biologis division of the Adeptus Mechanicus, a representative from the Security Council, and a representative of the Inquisition.


Thoughts?

 

[Elder Haman]

For the committee that small of a group would be enough, but I think something larger needs to be established to deal with the issue of offworld use of wildlife in general. The heads of the agency would require staff and advisers to ensure they are doing their job appropriately. Further, I'm not viewing this as a solely Avernus measure - we will be expanding and colonizing other worlds. Some other worlds in the future might have native wildlife, which while not necessarily threatening like on Avernus, could be invasive if exported to a different world. Initially it wouldn't be a very big agency, having perhaps a few thousand people at most to start, but it would likely grow as we start colonizing worlds.

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Perhaps merely note that this can serve as a pattern for dealing with inter system transport of wildlife? And then expand into an agency in the future if such a need appears?