- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
-
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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
They are still paying several times what anyone else is paying for metal
- Location
- Australia
No-one wants us to purchase any more mass conveyors?
edit: just checked, the only one that did so last time was Vanaheim.
edit: just checked, the only one that did so last time was Vanaheim.
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Yeah, they're the only ones who can build them, and unfortunately they're behind the Warp Storm. We should have five of them once they come out of it, though.
@durin - is Svartalfheim willing to go into a small amount of debt to us for selling them the maximum amount of metal we can send them plus the 10 merchantmen we'll produce over the next 10 years? (48.5 credits after the trade)
EDIT - looking at their other needs it might be higher as we also might sell them some Promethium.
EDIT - looking at their other needs it might be higher as we also might sell them some Promethium.
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- Location
- Australia
Looking at how much it costs to make one merchantman per year (22EM), it doesn't seem like the kinda thing we'd go bankrupt over. Even the refitting fits well within what we make natively. Even with our non-shipbuilding projects, our stockpiles are large enough that we can afford to not buy some for now.
The profits we'll get from building them will help buy more EM as well as pay off some of our debt, not to mention that arming the Knight World with more Knight Titans strengthens the military strength of the Imperial Trust.
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
yes they are willing to go into debt with you
Going over the math of what we can buy and sell as I'm setting up our plan, we can still
I'm not arguing against that - I was arguing due to you not having realized the per year buy thing. With us continuing to buy EM we have plenty left over.
Yes it is, but Asgard generally has little we want to buy. Most likely we'll want to buy credits with Vanaheim through them with the debt, or political favors by forgiving the debt, or something like that.
- Location
- Australia
Fair enough.
Alternatively, we could buy the Metal they're offering and sell it to Svartalfheim for four times the profit. That's roughly 10% of our debt gone.
Also, it might not be a good idea to buy Vanaheim credits considering we might find the planet in need of Exterminatus when the Warp Storm dies down. The very low morale they had will only get worse now that they're not getting any Metal whatsoever. Maybe if we stationed some Avernite troops there beforehand it would've helped but I'm not sure how it can survive as-is without resorting to massive amounts of orbital bombardment. Hopefully it doesn't turn into a Daemon World before we can send in reinforcements.
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That's inefficient regarding use of Cargo, though. Better to just put them in debt.
It's incredibly unlikely that they will be at the level requiring Exterminatus, as that would require them to make some insanely bad mistakes - given the amount of Thrones their economy produces and they have saved up, it's quite possible they'll just set up a dole to keep the out of work factory workers financially afloat. (and not everyone on the planet is actually a factory worker)
The Navy will also remain loyal most likely, so the shipyards there should be kept secure.
Also remember that an extremely large amount of Vanaheim's population lives in orbital habitats.
- Location
- USA
@durin for Jotunheim is buying advanced material and selling thrones supposed to be a per year or is it a one time deal
So looking at this for trading I have:
Alfheim-
Buy EM(10 per year) x5 =2 CR
Sell Training (15 regiments sent) x1 = 2 CR
So 50 EM for the price of sending regiments to train, always a good thing as we can always use more EM.
Asgard-
Sell Knight Titans (don't know how many)
Not sure if we want to buy metal since that would use cargo and keeping Asgard Knight forces fully equipped is good for the trust.
Jotunheim
Buy AM(1,000) x10 =5CR
Sell Thrones (920,000) x 5 =5 CR
Is this a one time purchase or are these supposed to be per year? Either way more AM for a resource we have a lot of is good. Plus once again no cargo used so keeping merchants.
Muspelheim-
Can't think of anything we want to buy, maybe the credit with Vanheim since I think we have a debt to them and send them thrones if they are short
Svartalfheim-
Owe 2170 CR
Buy AM(1k per yr) .5 CR
Buy EM (10 per yr) .6 CR
Sell 20 merchants (the 12 from the build order and the one from the constant production) 1312 CR
Sell Metal (1mil per year) x 468= 936
Sell Promethium (1 mil per year) 2.9 CR (more efficient than metal at 2 CR)
=2248-2170=78
So this pays off our debt, also we keep 30 merchants and pump 468 million to them a turn which still would have had us at a positive amount last turn. We have 78 credits to buy, EM and AM, more if we wish to go into debt. We can buy 60 credits worth of EM and 100 credits worth of AM, which would leave us with a debt of only 82, more if we chose to bring in some material as well which is 2.5 per 1 mil per year to a max of 300 mil at 750 credit.
EM net is 496
AM net is 105,906
EM-gain 50 per year from Alfheim
AM-gain 10,000 from Jotunheim (maybe per year, maybe not)
We do have to account for however many knight titants we produce for Asgard but
So looking at this for trading I have:
Alfheim-
Buy EM(10 per year) x5 =2 CR
Sell Training (15 regiments sent) x1 = 2 CR
So 50 EM for the price of sending regiments to train, always a good thing as we can always use more EM.
Asgard-
Sell Knight Titans (don't know how many)
Not sure if we want to buy metal since that would use cargo and keeping Asgard Knight forces fully equipped is good for the trust.
Jotunheim
Buy AM(1,000) x10 =5CR
Sell Thrones (920,000) x 5 =5 CR
Is this a one time purchase or are these supposed to be per year? Either way more AM for a resource we have a lot of is good. Plus once again no cargo used so keeping merchants.
Muspelheim-
Can't think of anything we want to buy, maybe the credit with Vanheim since I think we have a debt to them and send them thrones if they are short
Svartalfheim-
Owe 2170 CR
Buy AM(1k per yr) .5 CR
Buy EM (10 per yr) .6 CR
Sell 20 merchants (the 12 from the build order and the one from the constant production) 1312 CR
Sell Metal (1mil per year) x 468= 936
Sell Promethium (1 mil per year) 2.9 CR (more efficient than metal at 2 CR)
=2248-2170=78
So this pays off our debt, also we keep 30 merchants and pump 468 million to them a turn which still would have had us at a positive amount last turn. We have 78 credits to buy, EM and AM, more if we wish to go into debt. We can buy 60 credits worth of EM and 100 credits worth of AM, which would leave us with a debt of only 82, more if we chose to bring in some material as well which is 2.5 per 1 mil per year to a max of 300 mil at 750 credit.
EM net is 496
AM net is 105,906
EM-gain 50 per year from Alfheim
AM-gain 10,000 from Jotunheim (maybe per year, maybe not)
We do have to account for however many knight titants we produce for Asgard but
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- Location
- Australia
Considering how in debt we are with Svartalfheim already, it might be best to not make the Knights at all if we can't use them to pay what we owe.
Better to send them as many regiments as we can and put them into debt. It costs us practically nothing and it strengthens the Trust's military.
We're pretty low on Material so we need to buy some.
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- Location
- USA
We can only send the regiments once so it works out perfectly. Also both cost no cargo space which lets us save on merchants
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
per year
- Location
- Australia
Read it as sending 1 regiment. My bad.
Ok, I've come up with a plan based on a number of things I see on the sheet as well as future costs. This is what it looks like right now, but changes may be made based on feedback.
[X] Plan Enjou
Ok, reasoning:
1. We want to sell Knights to Asgard because that increases the military power available to the Imperial Trust as a whole. Knights are tough sons of bitches, after all, and with both Midgard and Vanaheim behind the Warp Storm more Knights will make a big difference.
2. Just a trade of EM for training with Alfheim, as it's not very efficient for us to ship there at the moment.
3. Jotunheim gets no trade, as they have nothing we need or want at the prices they are offering and they don't need anything from us either, really.
4. Ok, having looked at the datasheets (both theirs and ours) as well as future project costs, I came up with this plan.
- Selling a crapton of metal to them, as well as most of their needs in regards to Promethium (they'll be able to buy the rest from Jotunheim). Also selling a good deal of Thrones because we have plenty and it cuts off our debt. Selling 10 Merchantmen from the next decade's automatic production as well. I'm not selling so much Promethium that we run a deficit as a number of projects coming up and in the pipeline will be expensive for it or increase our upkeep.
- Buying all the types of Material at maximum. We need regular Material for the projects that will be upcoming to build up our defenses more, and they are selling both AM and EM for cheap (likely due to Vanaheim not being present to increase demand) so why not buy as much as we can now while the prices are low?
5. To Muspelheim I'm selling some Promethium to give them not only the amount they need to not run a deficit but also enough to build up some more reserves, and selling some Thrones as again we have a fair amount of those. We get some Vanaheim credits in return to use later. The Promethium being sold ensures
Now, the alternative version of this plan could have us selling 10 more Merchantmen to Svartalfheim, but sending less Metal, and getting entirely out of debt now rather than later. Thought on this are appreciated.
Actually though, @durin - could we sell an additional 10 Merchantmen to Svartalfheim with this plan, but have them use them as part of the trade deal above? (basically, they come to own them, but they use them to buy metal from us as agreed upon here)
[X] Plan Enjou
Asgard (0 Cargo, Debt to Avernus increased to 1,511)
BUY
N/A
SELL
100 Knight Titans - 1,300 Cr, N/A Cargo
Alfheim (0 Cargo)
SELL
Training - 2 Cr, N/A Cargo
BUY
50 Exotic Material per year - 2 Cr, N/A Cargo
Jotunheim (0 Cargo)
SELL
4,600,000 Thrones - 5 Cr, 0 Cargo0
BUY
10,000 Advanced Material per year - 5 Cr, 0 Cargo
Svartalfheim (49.785 Cargo, 56 Cr owed to Avernus)
SELL - 2480 Cr
702,890,000 Metal per year - 1405.78 Cr, 44.985 Cargo
75,000,000 Promethium per year - 217.5, 4.8 Cargo
436,159,600 Thrones per year - 200.72 Cr, 0 Cargo
10 Merchantmen (from next decade's production) - 656 Cr, 0 Cargo
10 Merchantmen (currently owned, traded to Svartalfheim but required to be used to ship goods from Avernus this trade) - 656 Cr, 0 Cargo
BUY - 910 Cr
300,000,000 Material per year - 750 Cr, 19.2 Cargo
200,000 Advanced Material per year - 100 Cr
1,000 Exotic Material per year - 60 Cr
Muspelheim (0.215 Cargo)
SELL
5,000,000 Promethium per year - 14 Cr, 0.215 Cargo
52,500,000 Thrones per year - 50 Cr, 0 Cargo
BUY
32 Cr with Vanaheim - 64 Cr, 0 Cargo
BUY
N/A
SELL
100 Knight Titans - 1,300 Cr, N/A Cargo
Alfheim (0 Cargo)
SELL
Training - 2 Cr, N/A Cargo
BUY
50 Exotic Material per year - 2 Cr, N/A Cargo
Jotunheim (0 Cargo)
SELL
4,600,000 Thrones - 5 Cr, 0 Cargo0
BUY
10,000 Advanced Material per year - 5 Cr, 0 Cargo
Svartalfheim (49.785 Cargo, 56 Cr owed to Avernus)
SELL - 2480 Cr
702,890,000 Metal per year - 1405.78 Cr, 44.985 Cargo
75,000,000 Promethium per year - 217.5, 4.8 Cargo
436,159,600 Thrones per year - 200.72 Cr, 0 Cargo
10 Merchantmen (from next decade's production) - 656 Cr, 0 Cargo
10 Merchantmen (currently owned, traded to Svartalfheim but required to be used to ship goods from Avernus this trade) - 656 Cr, 0 Cargo
BUY - 910 Cr
300,000,000 Material per year - 750 Cr, 19.2 Cargo
200,000 Advanced Material per year - 100 Cr
1,000 Exotic Material per year - 60 Cr
Muspelheim (0.215 Cargo)
SELL
5,000,000 Promethium per year - 14 Cr, 0.215 Cargo
52,500,000 Thrones per year - 50 Cr, 0 Cargo
BUY
32 Cr with Vanaheim - 64 Cr, 0 Cargo
Ok, reasoning:
1. We want to sell Knights to Asgard because that increases the military power available to the Imperial Trust as a whole. Knights are tough sons of bitches, after all, and with both Midgard and Vanaheim behind the Warp Storm more Knights will make a big difference.
2. Just a trade of EM for training with Alfheim, as it's not very efficient for us to ship there at the moment.
3. Jotunheim gets no trade, as they have nothing we need or want at the prices they are offering and they don't need anything from us either, really.
4. Ok, having looked at the datasheets (both theirs and ours) as well as future project costs, I came up with this plan.
- Selling a crapton of metal to them, as well as most of their needs in regards to Promethium (they'll be able to buy the rest from Jotunheim). Also selling a good deal of Thrones because we have plenty and it cuts off our debt. Selling 10 Merchantmen from the next decade's automatic production as well. I'm not selling so much Promethium that we run a deficit as a number of projects coming up and in the pipeline will be expensive for it or increase our upkeep.
- Buying all the types of Material at maximum. We need regular Material for the projects that will be upcoming to build up our defenses more, and they are selling both AM and EM for cheap (likely due to Vanaheim not being present to increase demand) so why not buy as much as we can now while the prices are low?
5. To Muspelheim I'm selling some Promethium to give them not only the amount they need to not run a deficit but also enough to build up some more reserves, and selling some Thrones as again we have a fair amount of those. We get some Vanaheim credits in return to use later. The Promethium being sold ensures
Now, the alternative version of this plan could have us selling 10 more Merchantmen to Svartalfheim, but sending less Metal, and getting entirely out of debt now rather than later. Thought on this are appreciated.
Actually though, @durin - could we sell an additional 10 Merchantmen to Svartalfheim with this plan, but have them use them as part of the trade deal above? (basically, they come to own them, but they use them to buy metal from us as agreed upon here)
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- Location
- USA
So prelim plan
[X] Void's Trade Plan
Asgard-0 merchants
Knight Titan 1 per year x 5 (maybe gift these)
Alfheim- 0 merchants
Buy 10 EM per year x 5 -2 CR
Sell Training (15 Regiments)- 2 CR
Jotunheim-0 merchants
Buy 1000 AM per year x 10-5 CR
Sell 920k Thrones per year x 5- 5 CR
Svartalfheim-20 merchant
Owe 2,170 CR
Buy 10 EM per year x 100-60 Credit
1000 AM per year x200- 100 Credit
1 mil Mat per year x 300- 750 Credit
Total owed 3,080 credit
Sell-Metal 1 mil per yr x 312- 624 credit
Merchantmen x 20 - 1312 credit
1936 Cr in sale
Owed 1,144
Still have ten merchants left for trading, we could send more metal, maybe a small amount of promethium to Svartalfheim though for promethium our net income without trades is 131 mil while metal is 1.9 bil. Using the remaining 10 merchants to trade more metal would pay down the debt by another 312 leaving only 832 owed to them.
[X] Void's Trade Plan
Asgard-0 merchants
Knight Titan 1 per year x 5 (maybe gift these)
Alfheim- 0 merchants
Buy 10 EM per year x 5 -2 CR
Sell Training (15 Regiments)- 2 CR
Jotunheim-0 merchants
Buy 1000 AM per year x 10-5 CR
Sell 920k Thrones per year x 5- 5 CR
Svartalfheim-20 merchant
Owe 2,170 CR
Buy 10 EM per year x 100-60 Credit
1000 AM per year x200- 100 Credit
1 mil Mat per year x 300- 750 Credit
Total owed 3,080 credit
Sell-Metal 1 mil per yr x 312- 624 credit
Merchantmen x 20 - 1312 credit
1936 Cr in sale
Owed 1,144
Still have ten merchants left for trading, we could send more metal, maybe a small amount of promethium to Svartalfheim though for promethium our net income without trades is 131 mil while metal is 1.9 bil. Using the remaining 10 merchants to trade more metal would pay down the debt by another 312 leaving only 832 owed to them.
Keeping some of our debt is fine - we have until Vanaheim's metal crisis is resolved to pay it back. Increasing the number of Knights in the Imperial Trust by 1,000 over the next decade is significantly more valuable for the polity as a whole.
- Location
- USA
Jotunheim we can give thrones for advanced material and take no cargo space. Also if we sell more merchants we can get out of debt and reduce the metal and thrones we need to pay off the debt while allowing us to send metal direct to Vanheim once we get the mass conveyors (I think we have a debt to them built up)
- Location
- Australia
Right, forgot about that factor.
Merchantmen have too much long-term value to trade so many of them away. If we had more, we could buy Asgard's or Jotunheim's metal and sell it to Svartalfheim without issue.
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- Location
- The Void
[X] Plan Enjou
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- Location
- USA
The thing is Svartalfheim is simply stockpiling to ship to Vanheim as they are closer than us so each merchant can make more trips in a year. Also once Vanheim comes out of the storm they have some mass conveyors they were building for us that we can use and are equal to several merchants each ( I think it was over 10 but not sure where the ratio is listed). So by selling merchants to Svartalfheim it both pays down our debt and increases their ability to trade.
