A proposal to consider would be combining the system defense fleets with the remaining Imperial Navy until either Vanheim or Midgard come out of the storm.
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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
[X] Propose that the matter of the Quartok Protectorate being delayed due to insufficient member representation in the High Council due to Warp Storms be put into writing as a formal resolution, so as to reassure the Quartok that their status is being taken seriously.
[X] Propose that a small shipyard be built at a tertiary location, with the construction being funded by the Imperial Trust. Suggest Asgard or Svartalfheim as possible locations. Until Vanaheim comes out of the Warp Storm, the shipyard would be dedicated to repair and refit for the Imperial Navy and system defense fleets.
[X] Propose that warp capable system defense fleets be placed under the command of the Imperial Navy, until such time as either Midgard or Vanaheim come out of the Warp storm.
[X] Propose that a small shipyard be built at a tertiary location, with the construction being funded by the Imperial Trust. Suggest Asgard or Svartalfheim as possible locations. Until Vanaheim comes out of the Warp Storm, the shipyard would be dedicated to repair and refit for the Imperial Navy and system defense fleets.
[X] Propose that warp capable system defense fleets be placed under the command of the Imperial Navy, until such time as either Midgard or Vanaheim come out of the Warp storm.
ebolasos
Hiiii please be my friend!
- Location
- Down under
but just having one will cause a sort of bottleneck if repairs for the fleet need to be done and there's not enough space for te damaged ships?
I'm not an expert but having just one might not be the best, a second or third built at the same time might be better *shrugs* that and when vanahiem comes out of the storm it gives them things to work on/upgrade up.
- Location
- Spain
@Elder Haman I don´t think your las propoasal is a good idea, If the Navy takes all Warp capable ships, it will leave some of the systems virtually defenceless...
With Vanaheim unavailable there's a limited amount of orbital construction teams available. It will probably take multiple worlds pooling their labor to get just the one shipyard built.
Avernus's shipyards are going to be dedicated towards building up the numbers of the Imperial Navy. While we'll gladly use our own shipyard as a repair facility if there are any major losses due to an invasion, what we're wanting to build here is a dedicated yard for maintenance, repair, and refit for the Imperial Navy and the other system defense fleets.
Longer for other systems, actually, according to durin. It takes five years (or four if expedited) for us and because we've got existing shipyards and enough trained labor to do it that quickly.
I don't think that's strictly necessary. They've got enough ships to handle their patrols, and I can't imagine the worlds not sending their ships to aid their neighbors. Also, the Imperial Navy does have command over all naval forces when they are present in a system that is being attacked.
- Location
- A Place Miserably Bereft of Cats
[X] Propose that the matter of the Quartok Protectorate being delayed due to insufficient member representation in the High Council due to Warp Storms be put into writing as a formal resolution, so as to reassure the Quartok that their status is being taken seriously.
[X] Propose that a small shipyard be built at a tertiary location, with the construction being funded by the Imperial Trust. Suggest Asgard or Svartalfheim as possible locations. Until Vanaheim comes out of the Warp Storm, the shipyard would be dedicated to repair and refit for the Imperial Navy and system defense fleets.
[X] Propose that a small shipyard be built at a tertiary location, with the construction being funded by the Imperial Trust. Suggest Asgard or Svartalfheim as possible locations. Until Vanaheim comes out of the Warp Storm, the shipyard would be dedicated to repair and refit for the Imperial Navy and system defense fleets.
While Navy situation is a major disaster, we also lost 2/3 of our Guard forces as well.
[X] Propose emergency draft to bring Trust Guard back to strength.
About the shipyard : Svartalfheim is the ideal, of course, combining large population with strong industrial base, but I'd go with Muspelheim over Asgard as second choice.
[X] Propose emergency draft to bring Trust Guard back to strength.
About the shipyard : Svartalfheim is the ideal, of course, combining large population with strong industrial base, but I'd go with Muspelheim over Asgard as second choice.
HanEmpire
Delicious
[X] Propose that the matter of the Quartok Protectorate being delayed due to insufficient member representation in the High Council due to Warp Storms be put into writing as a formal resolution, so as to reassure the Quartok that their status is being taken seriously.
[X] Propose that a small shipyard be built at a tertiary location, with the construction being funded by the Imperial Trust. Suggest Asgard or Svartalfheim as possible locations. Until Vanaheim comes out of the Warp Storm, the shipyard would be dedicated to repair and refit for theImperial Navy and system defense fleets.
[X] Propose that a small shipyard be built at a tertiary location, with the construction being funded by the Imperial Trust. Suggest Asgard or Svartalfheim as possible locations. Until Vanaheim comes out of the Warp Storm, the shipyard would be dedicated to repair and refit for theImperial Navy and system defense fleets.
Ok, just looking over the total Warp capable fleet strength we've got available in the Imperial Trust at the moment.
Imperial Navy: 1/4 of the fleet. Unspecified makeup, but likely composed of Cruisers and below given they were patrol groups. Assuming that, we can guess numbers of 4 Cruisers, 4-5 Light Cruisers, and 24-25 Escorts. Maybe a Battlecruiser if we're lucky.
Asgard: 2 Battlecruisers, 6 Cruisers, 4 Light Cruisers, 40 Escorts
Alfheim: 1 Cruisers, 1 Light Cruisers, 10 Escorts
Jotunheim: 2 Cruisers, 2 Light Cruisers, 20 Escorts
Svartalfheim: 6 Cruisers, 6 Light Cruisers, 30 Escorts
Muspelheim: 1 Cruisers, 5 Escorts
Avernus: 1 Heavy Cruiser, 3 Battlecruisers, 4 Cruisers, 2 (3?) Light Cruisers, 7 Escorts
Totals System Ships: 1 Heavy Cruiser, 5 Battlecruisers, 20 Cruisers, 15 (16?) Light Cruisers, 112 Escorts
Plus whatever the Navy has available.
For our own fleet, I'll note that we have insufficient Escorts. We can make up for that to a degree with Defense Monitors, but due to the slow speed at which they move they are limited in when and where they can be used as such. As I said before, the fifth and first escort types are probably the highest priority for getting built first, both due to the number of intact ships and their respective roles.
@durin - I've noticed a couple things.
1. In the Local Systems sheet Battlecruisers is misspelled as "Battlecuisers" in the Asgard, Vanaheim, and Imperial Trust sheets.
2. In the Turn 58 results it says we have three Light Cruisers, but the Space Sheet on the Datasheets page shows only two. Which is correct?
3. Also, just a question - was the Heavy Cruiser refit with the Well of Urd class armor, given how early during the refit we found the STC for that? Or did it get the Defense Cruiser level armor?
No draft could possibly get the Imperial Guard back to strength so long as both Midgard and Vanaheim are behind the Warp Storm. There simply isn't enough population to do it.
The Imperial Trust's total population is a bit over 157 billion people. 145.6 billion of those, or about 93%, are on Midgard and Vanaheim. There simply aren't enough people on the worlds we have access to in order to draft enough to bring the Imperial Guard to full strength - frankly it's pretty damn fortunate that we have even 1/3 of the Imperial Guard available to us.
Muspelheim is another possibility, yes, but while they have Heavy level defenses they don't have much in the way of a defense fleet. Svartalfheim is best in terms of available labor, while Asgard is best in terms of being well defended.
EDIT - On the other hand, it might be a good location. It's not a life-heavy world, so the Tyranids would have little reason to attack it.
Imperial Navy: 1/4 of the fleet. Unspecified makeup, but likely composed of Cruisers and below given they were patrol groups. Assuming that, we can guess numbers of 4 Cruisers, 4-5 Light Cruisers, and 24-25 Escorts. Maybe a Battlecruiser if we're lucky.
Asgard: 2 Battlecruisers, 6 Cruisers, 4 Light Cruisers, 40 Escorts
Alfheim: 1 Cruisers, 1 Light Cruisers, 10 Escorts
Jotunheim: 2 Cruisers, 2 Light Cruisers, 20 Escorts
Svartalfheim: 6 Cruisers, 6 Light Cruisers, 30 Escorts
Muspelheim: 1 Cruisers, 5 Escorts
Avernus: 1 Heavy Cruiser, 3 Battlecruisers, 4 Cruisers, 2 (3?) Light Cruisers, 7 Escorts
Totals System Ships: 1 Heavy Cruiser, 5 Battlecruisers, 20 Cruisers, 15 (16?) Light Cruisers, 112 Escorts
Plus whatever the Navy has available.
For our own fleet, I'll note that we have insufficient Escorts. We can make up for that to a degree with Defense Monitors, but due to the slow speed at which they move they are limited in when and where they can be used as such. As I said before, the fifth and first escort types are probably the highest priority for getting built first, both due to the number of intact ships and their respective roles.
@durin - I've noticed a couple things.
1. In the Local Systems sheet Battlecruisers is misspelled as "Battlecuisers" in the Asgard, Vanaheim, and Imperial Trust sheets.
2. In the Turn 58 results it says we have three Light Cruisers, but the Space Sheet on the Datasheets page shows only two. Which is correct?
3. Also, just a question - was the Heavy Cruiser refit with the Well of Urd class armor, given how early during the refit we found the STC for that? Or did it get the Defense Cruiser level armor?
No draft could possibly get the Imperial Guard back to strength so long as both Midgard and Vanaheim are behind the Warp Storm. There simply isn't enough population to do it.
The Imperial Trust's total population is a bit over 157 billion people. 145.6 billion of those, or about 93%, are on Midgard and Vanaheim. There simply aren't enough people on the worlds we have access to in order to draft enough to bring the Imperial Guard to full strength - frankly it's pretty damn fortunate that we have even 1/3 of the Imperial Guard available to us.
Muspelheim is another possibility, yes, but while they have Heavy level defenses they don't have much in the way of a defense fleet. Svartalfheim is best in terms of available labor, while Asgard is best in terms of being well defended.
EDIT - On the other hand, it might be a good location. It's not a life-heavy world, so the Tyranids would have little reason to attack it.
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I am proposing giving the navy control over their disposition and tasks now, not just during combat. For example, I would bet a large number of the Avernite fleet would be redeployed elsewhere.
This a bad idea as there are a lot of valuable assets in the system.
If a enemy fleet comes and we don't have the ships they could wrecks our hulks
Yes, that was perfectly clear.
I would bet against that, actually. Avernus is one of, if not the top strategic targets that need to be defended. The Well of Urd, the ship graveyard, and our orbital infrastructure make it a location that has to be defended. Loss of those assets is unacceptable. Honestly, I expect that the Imperial Navy will base itself out of Avernus and Asgard until Midgard or Vanaheim come out of the Warp Storm, so as to be able to react from both the northern and southern sides of the Imperial Trust.
So, some thoughts on the trade deals which will be upcoming. As I mentioned before, it's a good idea for metal to be stockpiled on Svartalfheim and Alfheim due to their proximity to Vanaheim, so that when Vanaheim is out of the Warp Storm the metal can be shipped there as quickly as possible.
Now, with Vanaheim and Midgard behind the Warp Storm, that means the majority of our Merchantmen are available for this. We had 38 last time, 35.5 of which was going to either of those planets. I'm not entirely sure how many we have this time - the Space sheet says we still have 38 of them, but we built another dozen that finished after the assault on Fjol IV. We might have lost some during that invasion, though. So @durin will need to clrarify how many we have.
Now, we've got tons of metal to sell to both those worlds, but what we buy in exchange will be different for each.
Svartalfheim we still need to buy both Exotic Material and Advanced Material from. In addition, we'll want regular Material this go around. We will probably have to sell them Merchantmen to pay off some of our debt as well, likely the dozen we planned to sell as well as the ten we will produce over the next year.
Alfheim on the other hand doesn't have anything we really want to buy aside from their extra Exotic Material. We're full up on food, and they don't produce enough of anything else to really export it. What we'll likely end up agreeing to is a trade-share deal - they basically store the metal, and then Vanheim buys it directly from them. We get something like 80-90% of the credits with Vanaheim that we can then spend when we have our deal with them. We can further edge this in our favor by committing to have the five Mass Conveyors we purchased, which would have been close to ready by the time Vanaheim got put into the Warp Storm, ship the metal directly from Alfheim to Vanaheim.
Now, while they don't necessarily have anything for us to sell to them, Muspelheim has a great deal of EM and AM that they don't necessarily have a client for what with Vanaheim behind the Warp Storm. We may want to consider what we should do to buy from them, like possibly selling some Merchantmen to them instead of to Svartalfheim, though they may wish to stockpile in order to ship it to Vanaheim once they're ready.
We owe them 2170 Cr worth of trade. We can pay that off by shipping them 20 Cargo worth of Metal based on the price from last time, though given we're also likely to continue buying AM and EM and also want to buy Material it may not be entirely paid off even if we sell them 22 Merchantmen. However, it may be the case that the price of AM and EM will be decreased due to there being no demand right now from Vanaheim.
Now, with Vanaheim and Midgard behind the Warp Storm, that means the majority of our Merchantmen are available for this. We had 38 last time, 35.5 of which was going to either of those planets. I'm not entirely sure how many we have this time - the Space sheet says we still have 38 of them, but we built another dozen that finished after the assault on Fjol IV. We might have lost some during that invasion, though. So @durin will need to clrarify how many we have.
Now, we've got tons of metal to sell to both those worlds, but what we buy in exchange will be different for each.
Svartalfheim we still need to buy both Exotic Material and Advanced Material from. In addition, we'll want regular Material this go around. We will probably have to sell them Merchantmen to pay off some of our debt as well, likely the dozen we planned to sell as well as the ten we will produce over the next year.
Alfheim on the other hand doesn't have anything we really want to buy aside from their extra Exotic Material. We're full up on food, and they don't produce enough of anything else to really export it. What we'll likely end up agreeing to is a trade-share deal - they basically store the metal, and then Vanheim buys it directly from them. We get something like 80-90% of the credits with Vanaheim that we can then spend when we have our deal with them. We can further edge this in our favor by committing to have the five Mass Conveyors we purchased, which would have been close to ready by the time Vanaheim got put into the Warp Storm, ship the metal directly from Alfheim to Vanaheim.
Now, while they don't necessarily have anything for us to sell to them, Muspelheim has a great deal of EM and AM that they don't necessarily have a client for what with Vanaheim behind the Warp Storm. We may want to consider what we should do to buy from them, like possibly selling some Merchantmen to them instead of to Svartalfheim, though they may wish to stockpile in order to ship it to Vanaheim once they're ready.
We owe them 2170 Cr worth of trade. We can pay that off by shipping them 20 Cargo worth of Metal based on the price from last time, though given we're also likely to continue buying AM and EM and also want to buy Material it may not be entirely paid off even if we sell them 22 Merchantmen. However, it may be the case that the price of AM and EM will be decreased due to there being no demand right now from Vanaheim.
- Location
- not telling
I'm not looking to make a coercive deal, just to have them give us a reason why the things they want should be prioritized over want the others will want. So lets take the Knight Forlorn. Asgard want's that so they can fight in space. On the other hand the Trust Guard want's Land Raiders and Land Speeders for their forces. Well the Navy would like it if we got around to figuring out those Super Lances. Then there's Jotunheim who is willing to give use a discount on trade for the blueprints for the new Automated Factory's. So why should spend our limited research time on the Knight Forlorn and not the Automated Factory's for Jotunheim?
- Location
- madison
[X] Propose that the matter of the Quartok Protectorate being delayed due to insufficient member representation in the High Council due to Warp Storms be put into writing as a formal resolution, so as to reassure the Quartok that their status is being taken seriously.
[X] Propose that a small shipyard be built at a tertiary location, with the construction being funded by the Imperial Trust. Suggest Asgard or Svartalfheim as possible locations. Until Vanaheim comes out of the Warp Storm, the shipyard would be dedicated to repair and refit for the Imperial Navy and system defense fleets.
Once the warpstorms clear up we might want to consider having a secondary naval base, so we don't risk the majority of our navy getting trapped in storms in the future.
[X] Propose that a small shipyard be built at a tertiary location, with the construction being funded by the Imperial Trust. Suggest Asgard or Svartalfheim as possible locations. Until Vanaheim comes out of the Warp Storm, the shipyard would be dedicated to repair and refit for the Imperial Navy and system defense fleets.
Once the warpstorms clear up we might want to consider having a secondary naval base, so we don't risk the majority of our navy getting trapped in storms in the future.
[X] Propose that the matter of the Quartok Protectorate being delayed due to insufficient member representation in the High Council due to Warp Storms be put into writing as a formal resolution, so as to reassure the Quartok that their status is being taken seriously.
It will be very costly to handle 3 naval centers. Maybe we should start with finishing a second (Avernus) first?
It will be very costly to handle 3 naval centers. Maybe we should start with finishing a second (Avernus) first?
- Location
- Australia
[X] Propose that the matter of the Quartok Protectorate being delayed due to insufficient member representation in the High Council due to Warp Storms be put into writing as a formal resolution, so as to reassure the Quartok that their status is being taken seriously.
[X] Propose that the matter of the Quartok Protectorate being delayed due to insufficient member representation in the High Council due to Warp Storms be put into writing as a formal resolution, so as to reassure the Quartok that their status is being taken seriously.
[X] Propose that a small shipyard be built at a tertiary location, with the construction being funded by the Imperial Trust. Suggest Asgard or Svartalfheim as possible locations. Until Vanaheim comes out of the Warp Storm, the shipyard would be dedicated to repair and refit for the Imperial Navy and system defense fleets.
[X] Propose that a small shipyard be built at a tertiary location, with the construction being funded by the Imperial Trust. Suggest Asgard or Svartalfheim as possible locations. Until Vanaheim comes out of the Warp Storm, the shipyard would be dedicated to repair and refit for the Imperial Navy and system defense fleets.
We're not proposing to build a major naval center, just a single small shipyard. If the other Councilors think it's a bad idea, they'll tell us.
- Location
- Australia
@durin
1. If we found an artifact that increased someone's psyker abilities by 100%, would Syr's Survival Instinct trait give her +2M and +4C? Is that how it works?
2. Do Syr's parents know about her minuscule psychic talent? Does she?
3. What are the principals of Avernus' schools called?
1. If we found an artifact that increased someone's psyker abilities by 100%, would Syr's Survival Instinct trait give her +2M and +4C? Is that how it works?
2. Do Syr's parents know about her minuscule psychic talent? Does she?
3. What are the principals of Avernus' schools called?
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- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
1. Thanks I will fix
2. There are three
3. No it has defence cruiser grade armour
[X] Propose that the matter of the Quartok Protectorate being delayed due to insufficient member representation in the High Council due to Warp Storms be put into writing as a formal resolution, so as to reassure the Quartok that their status is being taken seriously.
[X] Propose that a small shipyard be built at a tertiary location, with the construction being funded by the Imperial Trust. Suggest Asgard or Svartalfheim as possible locations. Until Vanaheim comes out of the Warp Storm, the shipyard would be dedicated to repair and refit for the Imperial Navy and system defense fleets.
[X] Propose that warp capable system defense fleets be placed under the command of the Imperial Navy, until such time as either Midgard or Vanaheim come out of the Warp storm.
I'm with Enjou on the potential trade plans, but we will undoubtedly need to fine tune everything once we get the updated price sheet.
While the small shipyard for the Imperial Navy is a good idea keep in mind that with all of our work crews tied up building our own infrastructure and the lower expertise of the other 5 worlds that, the distance, etc. We will be looking at around a decade for that yard to finish.
[X] Propose that a small shipyard be built at a tertiary location, with the construction being funded by the Imperial Trust. Suggest Asgard or Svartalfheim as possible locations. Until Vanaheim comes out of the Warp Storm, the shipyard would be dedicated to repair and refit for the Imperial Navy and system defense fleets.
[X] Propose that warp capable system defense fleets be placed under the command of the Imperial Navy, until such time as either Midgard or Vanaheim come out of the Warp storm.
I'm with Enjou on the potential trade plans, but we will undoubtedly need to fine tune everything once we get the updated price sheet.
While the small shipyard for the Imperial Navy is a good idea keep in mind that with all of our work crews tied up building our own infrastructure and the lower expertise of the other 5 worlds that, the distance, etc. We will be looking at around a decade for that yard to finish.
- Location
- Spain
[X] Propose that the matter of the Quartok Protectorate being delayed due to insufficient member representation in the High Council due to Warp Storms be put into writing as a formal resolution, so as to reassure the Quartok that their status is being taken seriously.
I will put aside the shipyard idea, at least for now...
I will put aside the shipyard idea, at least for now...
"He who defends everything defends nothing." Frederick the Great may have been a magnificent bastard, but he knew what he was talking about. Yes, there's the risk that all the rest of the fleet is then trapped behind the warp storm, yes, there's more risk of raids doing damage. But if we leave the fleet broken up in patrol pickets, then we are divided and the fleet can be picked off piecemeal and we will have nothing to counter a major invasion.
I think @Elder Haman is on the right track with the idea to concentrate the fleet.
fasquardon