- Pronouns
- He/Him
You don't have the money on hand.
The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest
Evaunit02mark1
S-s-smell the Prey, S-s-start the Hunt.
The Second case is easiest to me, send him to the wall.
The third is trickier. Poaching is a crime but the reasons are at least understandable. At the same time he still did wrong. He clearly deserves punishment but if we do it too harshly it spills over killing folks who's only crime is being related to the man. I'm thinking a fine. The cost of a buck and a bit for a tax, to be paid out of his next few harvests. Leave enough for his family to live off of mind you, but the rest goes to Lord Stark as recompense.
They may still think us soft for letting him live, but having the tax man hunting you down personally should at least send some kind of a message.
The first... The King Solomon approach. Split the difference and let them sort it out.
The third is trickier. Poaching is a crime but the reasons are at least understandable. At the same time he still did wrong. He clearly deserves punishment but if we do it too harshly it spills over killing folks who's only crime is being related to the man. I'm thinking a fine. The cost of a buck and a bit for a tax, to be paid out of his next few harvests. Leave enough for his family to live off of mind you, but the rest goes to Lord Stark as recompense.
They may still think us soft for letting him live, but having the tax man hunting you down personally should at least send some kind of a message.
The first... The King Solomon approach. Split the difference and let them sort it out.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I would caution people a little bit on bringing modern understandings of poaching both ways. In the modern day, poaching is bad because it actually harms people and the environment often enough. Poachers, especially of endangered animals but also just generally, are actually legit kinda bad guys.
In a medieval setting, poaching is bad because actually it's the Lord's remit to hunt all the animals of the forest and if a bunch of stinky peasants do so it might reduce the game they have for their often-wasteful hunts. Poachers are mostly kinda at worst a little scuzzy (or bad for reasons that don't have to do with being poachers, like them being bandits or outlaws) and at best incredibly sympathetic.
Like, there's nuances, but poaching is significantly less morally fraught in this sort of time period... but significantly MORE politically fraught.
In a medieval setting, poaching is bad because actually it's the Lord's remit to hunt all the animals of the forest and if a bunch of stinky peasants do so it might reduce the game they have for their often-wasteful hunts. Poachers are mostly kinda at worst a little scuzzy (or bad for reasons that don't have to do with being poachers, like them being bandits or outlaws) and at best incredibly sympathetic.
Like, there's nuances, but poaching is significantly less morally fraught in this sort of time period... but significantly MORE politically fraught.
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[X] [First] Side with House Whitehill, Keep the Tolls in place
[X] [Second] Execute Him
[X] [Third] Write-In: Send him to the Gift, to farm the land in bond to the Watch
[X] [Second] Execute Him
[X] [Third] Write-In: Send him to the Gift, to farm the land in bond to the Watch
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- Location
- Europe
I feel like we're missing some vital information here:
1. How significant is the toll levied on the Forresters? Forrester claims that it's "robbery" but that might be biased. Does Rhaenyra know how big the toll is and would it be considered prohibitive? It's important for a realm to ensure that any tolls don't significantly inhibit trade since it would damage the overall state of the realm's finances and prosperity.
2. Who maintains the road in question? The Starks might've built the road but that was centuries ago and roads need regular maintenance. In my mind, the Whitehills would only be allowed to levy a toll if they're responsible for maintaining the road in question and only to cover the costs of maintenance along with a little extra for their troubles.
I'd suggest we send the merchant to the Wall or possibly into exile and donate his wealth to the families of the dead. I'm more unsure about the poacher but I don't like the option of cutting off his hand or sending him to the Wall for this, especially not since it'd leave his wife and daughter destitute.
[X] [First] Compromise: With no document proving if the road can be tolled or not, you find it reasonable that House Whitehill does so. However, you also find it reasonable that House Forrester is receiving recompense for the actions of the Whitehill armsman. House Whitehill will have to pay for the reconstruction of the dam.
Yeah, I was thinking something similar to this. Forrester gets some cash relief, and Whitehill gets their ownership of the road enshrined. Everyone wins and everyone is unhappy lol.
[X] [Second] Send him to the Wall for inciting the fight and have a wergild paid to the families of the dead from his possessions.
[X] [Third] Send him to the Wall
Yeah, I was thinking something similar to this. Forrester gets some cash relief, and Whitehill gets their ownership of the road enshrined. Everyone wins and everyone is unhappy lol.
[X] [Second] Send him to the Wall for inciting the fight and have a wergild paid to the families of the dead from his possessions.
[X] [Third] Send him to the Wall
- Location
- Australia
He is a head of a household and more or less owner of a farm(though it is more likely he just owns the lease) even if it is far out from Wintertown the the farm is worth something.
The real thing the farmer is trying to keep for his family is this level of class. Most likely if sent to the wall all that will happen to his family is either the farm will be given away and his family will work on it as farm hands or they will have to move to Wintertown and work as labourers.
I don't think we need to do anything else then sentence him to the wall.
[X] [First] Side with neither, Reduce the Tolls by half
[X] [Second] 5 lashes with a whip
[X] [Third] The father is sent to the night watch, the daughter can become a servant at Winterfell or another castle if her mother agrees. The mother can follow her daughter, or stay on the farm.
It is implied that in this case the daughter will have the opportunity to earn a living, and not die of hunger, left without a father. If her mother is stubborn enough to refuse this - well, they tried to help the child.
[X] [Second] 5 lashes with a whip
[X] [Third] The father is sent to the night watch, the daughter can become a servant at Winterfell or another castle if her mother agrees. The mother can follow her daughter, or stay on the farm.
It is implied that in this case the daughter will have the opportunity to earn a living, and not die of hunger, left without a father. If her mother is stubborn enough to refuse this - well, they tried to help the child.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
1: It's enough that House Forrester believes it's seriously eating into what they make from the Ironwood trade but it's not going to leave them broke.
2: House Bolton are the last people to put serious work into the road and House Whitehill are bolton vassals.
- Location
- Australia
This is the North. Poaching is stealing food from the Stark's just as winter comes. Over hunting will harm food security for years to come.
Evaunit02mark1
S-s-smell the Prey, S-s-start the Hunt.
You know it's embarrassing but that slipped my mind when I first made my suggestion of taxation.
This is the north, food, all food, is worth far more than money.
The wall is the lenient option in this case.
- Location
- The US
[X] [First] Compromise: With no document proving if the road can be tolled or not, you find it reasonable that House Whitehill does so. However, you also find it reasonable that House Forrester is receiving recompense for the actions of the Whitehill armsman. House Whitehill will have to pay for the reconstruction of the dam.
[X] [Second] Send him to the Wall for inciting the fight and have a wergild paid to the families of the dead from his possessions.
[X] [Third] Send him to the Wall
[X] [Second] Send him to the Wall for inciting the fight and have a wergild paid to the families of the dead from his possessions.
[X] [Third] Send him to the Wall
CharlieKing
Pure of Heart, Dumb of Ass
- Pronouns
- They/Them
if we order Whitehill to pay for the reconstruction of the dam, but Forrester needs to continue to pay road tolls until it is fixed, is there a worry that Whitehill may sabotage the reconstruction to squeeze more money out of the situation?
i only bring it up because an accusation of sabotage was already levied, so it doesn't seem out of the question.
if they pay for the reconstruction with currency or building materials, that's probably not an issue, i just wouldn't trust them to send any manpower.
i only bring it up because an accusation of sabotage was already levied, so it doesn't seem out of the question.
if they pay for the reconstruction with currency or building materials, that's probably not an issue, i just wouldn't trust them to send any manpower.
- Location
- Spain
@Teen Spirit if we let the third guy get away with lets say 10-20 lashes would still be considered "too soft"?
We are still punishing him and it will be quite painful, but he won't be crippled bound to the wall...
We are still punishing him and it will be quite painful, but he won't be crippled bound to the wall...
- Location
- Europe
That's... a little vague. Is Rhaenyra aware of any other tolls and how they compare to the toll levied by the Whitehills? I'm not asking for hard numbers here but surely Rheanyra is at least vaguely aware of what a reasonable toll on goods would be. I'm asking because your answer still builds on what the Forresters claim and believe rather than actual facts and concrete numbers.
Secondly, since the Boltons did maintenance on the road last they have the greatest claim on levying a toll though they can and probably do delegate that to their vassals. Therefore I'm inclined to believe that the Whitehills are allowed to levy a tax and it's only a matter of whether or not it's excessive and used as a punitive measure in their feud against the Forresters.
I think you're both blowing this out of proportion. The North is gigantic, including the forests, and no amount of poaching by the small population that are even capable of hunting is going to hurt the "food supply" of Stark or the North as a whole. In fact one might argue that poaching actually increases the food supply since a lot of deer die during the winter of natural causes.
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Imperious
Without the sun of my life
Well we do have a bunch of tournament winnings we were wondering what to do with. With the third why not send him to the wall, but claim that we will provide some reasonable stipend out of our pocket to make sure his wife and kid don't go hungry if he's really saying the truth. Make sure the payment isn't excessive to the point that it might be viewed as an incentive to commit crime, but otherwise it seems like a decent option to both do good and gain a reputation of someone who's charitable and cares for those in need, while still upholding the law.
- Location
- Germany
Trying to sabotage the reconstruction would be it's own separate crime. Though that's why I want to rule that they *pay* for it instead of ordering them to do it with their own peasant labor. Much fewer chances to cause issues that way and if they do, it will have to be so overt that Lord Stark can smack them for it.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Rhaenyra is unsure but she thinks it will be viewed as less soft at least. Though she'll have to be the one to do the lashing.
[X] [First] Compromise: With no document proving if the road can be tolled or not, you find it reasonable that House Whitehill does so. However, you also find it reasonable that House Forrester is receiving recompense for the actions of the Whitehill armsman. House Whitehill will have to pay for the reconstruction of the dam.
[X] [Second] Send him to the Wall for inciting the fight and have a wergild paid to the families of the dead from his possessions.
[X] [Third] Send him to the Wall
[X] [Second] Send him to the Wall for inciting the fight and have a wergild paid to the families of the dead from his possessions.
[X] [Third] Send him to the Wall
- Location
- Germany
I'd like to point out again that Lord Stark clarifies in the update that his family will be taken care of if they move to Wintertown. This is not an issue.
Imperious
Without the sun of my life
Lord Stark said his family would have been taken care of for the time it would take for his fields to recover from the blight. He said nothing about the much longer period of time they would have to do without his labor if he's walled or disarmed.
[X] [First] Compromise: With no document proving if the road can be tolled or not, you find it reasonable that House Whitehill does so. However, you also find it reasonable that House Forrester is receiving recompense for the actions of the Whitehill armsman. House Whitehill will have to pay for the reconstruction of the dam.
[X] [Second] Execute him and have a wergild paid to the families of the dead from his possessions.
[X] [Third] Send him to the Wall
The Law is clear and Realm must with Law be built
[X] [Second] Execute him and have a wergild paid to the families of the dead from his possessions.
[X] [Third] Send him to the Wall
The Law is clear and Realm must with Law be built
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Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
[X] [First] Side with neither, Reduce the Tolls by half
[X] [First] Side with House Whitehill, Keep the Tolls in place.
[X] [First] Side with the Whitehills and keep the tolls in place. Make it clear to the court that by torturing the sabotager to death the Forresters denied the court the ability to assess his testimony, thus both foiling the court's ability to examine potentially valuable evidence as well as leaving the foresters with no evidence to their claims, forcing you to rule against them.
[X] [Second] Execute Him
[X] [Third] Send him to the Wall
[X] [First] Side with House Whitehill, Keep the Tolls in place.
[X] [First] Side with the Whitehills and keep the tolls in place. Make it clear to the court that by torturing the sabotager to death the Forresters denied the court the ability to assess his testimony, thus both foiling the court's ability to examine potentially valuable evidence as well as leaving the foresters with no evidence to their claims, forcing you to rule against them.
[X] [Second] Execute Him
[X] [Third] Send him to the Wall
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