The Dawi in Arda (Hiatus)

So I did some research and tried to catalog the people of Middle Earth. This is what I have found, if someone who knows more Lotr lore than me notices any mistakes please let me know and I will correct it.

One thing that is unclear to me is whether Erebor has been founded yet since we last heard of Thrain in the Grey Mountains, maybe it has and we just don't know of it yet.

Erebor has been a colony of Durin's Folk for a long time but it's isolated position has left it small. The discovery of the Arkenstone is what causes it to become a significant hold.

So far you've heard of it as a colony when talking with Lord Elrond.

Edit: A great map can be found here: Interactive Map of Middle-Earth - LotrProject
Edit 2: To clarify, this is based upon the assumption that we are currently around TA 2005 with Scatha being killed in TA 2000 (end of turn 12) according to Lotr canon. I have not listed former or future settlements.

This should give us a better understanding of potential allies and trading partners. I was very surprised by the lack of dwarven holds at this time. From what I can tell there really aren't many to be found.

Lands of Men
Greater RegionPeopleNotable Cities
The Icebay of Forochel, the very nort of Eriador where Ered Luin (the blue mountains) meet the sea.Lossoth or Snowmen of ForochelNone. Nomadic people
Former kingdom of Arnor in the northern part of EriadorDúnedain, Middle Men, NúmenóreansBree, Cobe, Staddle, Archet
Enedwaith and Dunland in the south of Eriador, close to the Gap of Rohan at the southern edge of the Misty MountainsDunlandings (Wild Men) and some Middle Men (Bree Men)Tharbad
Calenardhon (Rohan), south east of the Misty MountainsDunlandings (Wild Men)None. Tribal people.
In the north where the Misty Mountains and the Grey Mountains meetÉothéodFramsburg
Rhovanion, east of MirkwoodNorthmen, Woodmen, BeorningsUnknown
The long lake, north east of the Mirkwood just south of EreborBoatmenSettlement on the long lake
Gondor, south of the White MountainsNúmenoriansMinas Tirith
Rhûn far east of MirkwoodEasterlingsUnknown
Lands of Hobbits
Greater RegionPeopleNotable Cities
ShireHobbitsHobbiton, Michel Delving
Gladden Fields, south-east of Imladris and the Misty MountainsHobbits (Stoors)Unknown (Gladden Fields)
Lands of Elves
Greater RegionPeopleNotable Cities
Middle Eriador just west of the Misty MountainsNoldorImladris (Rivendell)
Lindon, south of the Blue MountainsNoldor, SindarGrey Havens, Forlond, Harlond
MirkwoodWood-elvesHalls of Thranduil
Lothlorien, south-west of Mirkwood close to the Misty MountainsGaladhrim, Noldor, Sindar, TeleriCaras Galadhon
Lands of Dwarves
Greater RegionPeopleNotable Cities
South-east of the Grey Mountains, close to the MirkwoodDurin's FolkErebor (Currently known as a small settlement of dwarves)
Grey MountainsDurin's Folk, Uri's folkSilverplunge, Udrabax
Iron Hills, east of Mirkwood, north of RhûnDurin's FolkUnknown
 
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@Warkeymon is it possible to build hold defences before building a hold entrance? Baisically trying to avoid a period with an undefended entrance into the hold.

I would prefer to bring the Eotheod to show everyone how amenable we are to cooperation with other races and to make use of their horses for quick detours off the straight path.
I like this idea but at the same time I don't want to send the Eotheod off on a trade mission while their countrymen are being threatened. If it looks like we've saved everyone we reasonable can I'll be happier sending them off on other stuff. What's your thoughts on delaying the trade mission versus sending it this turn with just Dawi?
 
@Pancake33

Isn't Rohan, currently called Calenardhon currently part of Gondor? The Dunlendings haven't moved in as they did after the Watchful Peace.

I'd include the Iron Hills. They've been colonized since the First Age and were mentioned as inhabited here at the moment.
 
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@Pancake33

Isn't Rohan, currently called Calenardhon currently part of Gondor? The Dunlendings haven't moved in as they did after the Watchful Peace.

I'd include the Iron Hills. They've been colonized since the First Age and were mentioned as inhabited here at the moment.
Good point about the Iron Hills, I will add them.

Regarding the Dunlendings, I believe they are still in Rohan/Calenardhon (I wrote Rohan to make it easier to know where it is) and were not driven out of there until the Rohirrim settled there in TA 2510, it's just sort of wild lands at the moment, technically part of Gondor yes but not inhabited by them at the moment.
 
Maybe we should amend the vote? Impress upon Elrond what honor means to us, and what it means for the Beardlings to take up the slayers oath.

They are being shorn of their honor and sent to die. Literally. They would be as dead men to us. Their honor never to return to them until their deaths.
 
So I did some research and tried to catalog the people of Middle Earth. This is what I have found, if someone who knows more Lotr lore than me notices any mistakes please let me know and I will correct it. One thing that is unclear to me is whether Erebor has been founded yet since we last heard of Thrain in the Grey Mountains, maybe it has and we just don't know of it yet. @Warkeymon



Erebor has been a colony of Durin's Folk for a long time but it's isolated position has left it small. The discovery of the Arkenstone is what causes it to become a significant hold.

So far you've heard of it as a colony when talking with Lord Elrond.

@Warkeymon is it possible to build hold defences before building a hold entrance? Baisically trying to avoid a period with an undefended entrance into the hold.

You need the entrance hall first.
 
In ten or so years if we can get the kid to stabilize his realm then having a series of lightly fortified towns to the old forest road would be cool. If that's secure and a trading port can be created on the Anduin that potentially opens up a ton of opportunities for us (unless large sections of river are impassible).

Are there any cities along the Anduin in future Rohan that could grow with trade?

Edit: it appears there was a dwarven bridge at the old ford which crossed the Anduin. It has fallen or been destroyed but that area could be decent for a small town. At the very least a bridge would make travel and trade much easier.

Edit2: There are some massive rapids below Lorien (may be the part of the river down in the hills below the brown lands and the wold). The argonath are in that cluster just above the lake. So that puts a bit of a limit on it but Lorien, future Rohan, and the gladden fields would all be possible areas we could trade.
 
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I did make up a sistem to mobilize cargo quickly trougth the waterfall of the Anduin.
Woul require a lot of work to start and maybe a dedicated crew stationed there.
I will not enter into dettail until we need it.
 
Honour is all.
Gartrimm sat across from Elrond, gently tugging on his beard as he considered the matter of the foolish Greybeards. So insulted by the Noldor remarking upon their mountain homes that they took leave of their senses and violated Dawi hospitality. For anyone to feel unsafe in a Dawi hold of all places? Such a thing was nigh-unthinkable to the point of mandness. Yet such was the matter now before the Lord of the Noldor and Dawi respectively. For the Noldor and their families claimed that they were not safe in Karak Drekfut. Unspeakable! Unthinkable!

Dishonorable!

The Greybeards had clearly forgotten their histories, and would need to be taught anew. Yet there was still the stain upon Dawi honor. The Noldor did not know the Dawi. Not as Umgi and Elgi did from the Fated Place. Here in Middle Earth? They knew them only as Dwarves. Despite all claims to the contrary, it is quite likely that they be seen as Dwarves and not proper Dawi. Forgiving, flexible, greedy, uninterested and apathetic to the goings on. Content to wander where they will and take what they will. Uninterested in higher concepts such as grudges, oaths, and honor, such as the ones known as Nain and Thrain, King of the line of Durin. But we were not Dwarves, or so Gartrimm supposed. We were Dawi. To the Dawi, honor is life. To be without honor is to be without life. Without honor, there was no point to life but to seek to restore it.

Whatever reckoning Gartrimm gave, he knew that it would satisfy the Dawi. But the true question; would it satisfy the Noldor?

Gartrimm tugged at his beard a little harder. He must make them know, to understand, what awaited the Greybeards who had so foolishly bundled off the Noldor in the dead of night.

"Lord Elrond" Gartrimm began in the Sindar tongue. "Tell me, what do you know of honor?"

The Lord Eldrond leaned back in his chair, quirking a single eyebrow as he observed his Dawi counterpart.

"I suppose honor is in things that are good. That are just. There is honor in justice, and in oaths fulfilled"

Gartrimm nodded, pleased. "To a Dawi, honor is life. To be without honor, is to be without life. A proper Dawi shepherds is honor through life, protecting it from those who would slight it, and when it is slighted, righting that which has wronged him. Even if that thing be his own foolishness. The Dawi strive with every breath to right that which has been made wrong."

Lord Elrond frowned at these words, leaning forward has he considered Gartrimm's words. "I suppose you are referring to the... greybeards you called them?"

Gartrimm nodded. "I am."

"And what is to become of them, if I may ask?"

Gartrimm sat back in his seat, tugging at his beard. Reaching out he seized a mug of ale that had been set before the two Lords, though Elrond had refrained from touching his. Gartrimm tipped it back and took a swig of the sweet and bitter drink, thinking as he did. When he finally set it back down he tugged at his beard some more, grumbling as he thought. Eventually he spoke. "They have dishonored the hold, and myself, and themselves with their actions. Clearly their education is lacking. They will be given over to the Lorekeepers to be taught as beardlings on what the histories say about those who violate the guestright."

Elrond nodded. "And what do the histories say about the guestright?"

Gartrimm merely leaned back in his seat. "Lord Elrond" He began after a while. "For anyone, for anything, to feel unsafe in a Dawi hold? To claim that a Karaks walls cannot protect them? Nonsense! Madness! Yet here we are, for these greybeards have violated guestright. The histories say many things about those who violate guestright. Mostly about Umgi and Elgi and such and so forth. But there are Dawi who have violated guestright. Of them, they say one thing and one thing only." Gartrimms began tugging at his beard again as he considered Lord Elrond.

"It is a stain upon their honor that can only be righted with their deaths."

Elrond said nothing, but perhaps it was his lack of response that spoke to Gartrimm the most. Taking the silence as invitation to continue Gartrimm spoke once more. "If proper and true Dawi they be, when they learn of the histories they will learn of the magnitude of the stain they have brought upon their own honor and upon the hold and upon me. If proper and true Dawi, their hearts will ache at this dishonor, and their very beings will cry out to see it righted. They will be taken up to the Hall of Shrines to stand before the Ancestors. There they will swear the slayers oath." Gartrimm's tugging increased. "They will be shorn of their beards, the very manifestation of their honor, and cast from Karak Drekfut. Never again will they be given shelter under Dawi roofs and behind Dawi doors. They will come before me to beg me tell where my enemies lay, so that they might go there and kill them. Or die trying. In their deaths in combat against the enemies of the Dawi, their honor will return to them, and they can rest amongst the tombs of our ancestors at last."

Elrond's gaze was steady, and when it was clear Gartrimm had nothing more to say on the matter of honor, he finally spoke. "Do you not think this is... perhaps overly harsh?"

Gartrimm reached once more for the stone mug, half empty now. He stared into it, swirling the golden liquid about. "No. I do not." before tipping it back and finishing it off. He set the empty mug on the table before him.

"Lord Elrond." He said after silence descended once again upon the two. "We are few. We are not like your Dwarves. I have gone to them and spoken to them. They do not care for grudges or for honor. They act with greed unfitting of a proper Dawi. I had hope, when Glorifndel spoke to me of Kazad Dum, for in our tongue it means The Dark Hold, or The Dark City. But when I went to them I found their tongue as alien as yours. Their histories match with your telling of it. They cracked open Framburg and slew its king when he did not wish to gift them back their stolen treasures. Taking not only what was theirs, but what was not theirs. I see... hints of ourselves as though through a twisted mirror. But they are not us. We are alone in this world, we are few."

"I am King, Lord Elrond. It is my duty to uphold our honor, and when it is slighted, to see it made right again. To strike out the dishonors brought upon us. To render judgement. But even so, we are few. When they have told me what punishments they choose for themselves, they will be presented to the families of those they have wronged, as well as before your lordship. There they will beg for your judgement. Does their chosen punishment fit the wrong done to their honor? Will the families of those they have wronged understand what the Greybeards propose to do?"

Gartrimm leaned forward in his seat, tugging mightily at his beard.

"Lord Elrond." He said. His voice low and quiet. "You, they, must understand."
 
So I did some research and tried to catalog the people of Middle Earth. This is what I have found, if someone who knows more Lotr lore than me notices any mistakes please let me know and I will correct it.

Circa the 2000...

Tharbad is a city in southern Eriador that survived the fall of Arnor, much like Bree. Not much is known about who lived there after the fall of the kingdom, but the place remained settled for several centuries after the current timeframe of the quest.

Also, Rhovanion probably is still dealing with the aftermath of the Wainriders being finally defeated a couple generations ago. Dale may or may not exist and the same for Esgaroth upon the Long Lake.
 
Circa the 2000...

Tharbad is a city in southern Eriador that survived the fall of Arnor, much like Bree. Not much is known about who lived there after the fall of the kingdom, but the place remained settled for several centuries after the current timeframe of the quest.

Also, Rhovanion probably is still dealing with the aftermath of the Wainriders being finally defeated a couple generations ago. Dale may or may not exist and the same for Esgaroth upon the Long Lake.
I'll add in Tharbad, thanks!

Agreed regarding Dale, especially since Erebor has not yet reached it's glory days but since at least some dwarves have populated the lonely mountain it seemed reasonable to assume that at least some men might also gather there.
 
And beyond the Eryn Galen lived the boatmen of the River Celduin who had been driven north along that river by the collapse of their kingdom and settled now the Long Lake.

I'll add in Tharbad, thanks!

Agreed regarding Dale, especially since Erebor has not yet reached it's glory days but since at least some dwarves have populated the lonely mountain it seemed reasonable to assume that at least some men might also gather there.

For the people who live near Erebor you got this back in turn 14.
 
Those foolish berlings have dishonored themself, their clans, the hold and the entire dawikind (as we are the only representative). The only way is the dawi way, the Slayer Oath.

Nothing else matters.
 
15-20 Silver ingots. Decide their own punishment with veto and lesson. Writing Starting now.
Adhoc vote count started by Warkeymon on Feb 7, 2022 at 1:26 PM, finished with 102 posts and 18 votes.

  • [X] Write-In a Recompense: 15-20 Silver ingots (we are getting 10 a turn, this pays it off and gets it done as simply as possible. Half again shows we take it seriously without going too far into appeasement territory.)
    [X] Write-In a Reckoning: At the very least those that participated in the attempted kidnapping will be given over to the Loremasters to study the laws and traditions passed down by the Ancestor gods as to the treatment of guests, the seriousness of the dishonor and Shame of attempting to kidnap a guest of the hold, and are to be taught as very young beardlings if that is how they wish to behave. They are to choose their own punishment from amongst the records as to how such behavior was dealt with in the past, with Lord Elrond and the families of the harmed being able to weigh in and veto if the punishment is deemed insufficient no less than once each.
    [X] Write-In a Reckoning: At the very least those that participated in the attempted kidnapping will be given over to the Loremasters to study the laws and traditions passed down by the Ancestor gods as to the treatment of guests, the seriousness of the dishonor and Shame of attempting to kidnap a guest of the hold, and are to be taught as very young beardlings if that is how they wish to behave. They are to choose their own punishment from amongst the records as to how such behavior was dealt with in the past, with Lord Elrond and the families of the harmed being able to weigh in and veto if the punishment is deemed insufficient no less than once each. Should this be unacceptable, we can refer to the 'other shoes' ruling we provided before and offer to let those that attempted to kidnap provide labor to the families of the harmed and in their spare time receive education as to the laws and traditions of the Noldor as to how such actions are punished in their lands. The main thrust of our Reckoning should be that we take such violations of the guest rights and protections, as well as our hospitality very seriously and will not allow a precedent for future actions like this to be accepted.
    [X] Write-In a Recompense: 20 Silver ingots
    [X]Recompense: 20 silver ingots.
    [X] Write-In a Reckoning: the oath of redemption all members involved will be equipped with the blessing of the clan elder. weapons and armour then they will be sent east into the land of man for 5 years where they will redeem themselves for attempted kidnaping by doing the complete opposite deed by saving as many life as possible from the beings of the dark forces and offering help to those in need. The path will be long and hard but no path worth walking is every completely easy
    [X] Write-In a Reckoning: The only reason every one of those that broke Hospitality is not already taking the Slayer Oath is because the Noldor do not yet know our people and traditions. Instead they will make up for their shame in a manner the Noldor can recognize and respect. The Hold shall outfit these Dawi in fine Steel arms and armor so that the Noldor don't have that burden. They shall be handed over to Elrond as soldiers to use as he sees fit. Whether it's spending their lives attacking orks and goblin infestations, or the drudgery of guarding trade caravans, or any other task, they shall do them all without complaint and with the upmost skill and dedication until Elrond deems them no longer needed.
    [X] Write-In a Recompense: 15-20 Silver ingots
 
@Warkeymon
I would advise creating, if only in the privacy of your mind brought out when a fanwork is written, a policy for omakes. If nothing else than to keep a blanket "anything gets rewards" attitude from instilling itself, leading to crappy writing, negaverses, improbable stuff, crack writing, less than 500 words, etc.

And too easy and easily given rewards distills the concept of us really earning whatever we get in-quest.

@Professor Vesca
To avoid any misconceptions I am not saying yours was poor, but it's creation did bring to mind omakes in general, causing me to look up the omake policy, which led me to this.
 
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@Warkeymon
I would advise creating, if only in the privacy of your mind brought out when a fanwork is written, a policy for omakes. If nothing else than to keep a blanket "anything gets rewards" attitude from instilling itself, leading to crappy writing, negaverses, improbable stuff, crack writing, less than 500 words, etc.

And too easy and easily given rewards distills the concept of us really earning whatever we get in-quest.

@Professor Vesca
To avoid any misconceptions I am not saying yours was poor, but it's creation did bring to mind omakes in general, causing me to look up the omake policy, which led me to this.
@Warkeymon

To be clear. I am not interested in a reward, though I wont turn one away if offered. I wrote it because I was inspired by the plight of Gartrimm, who is praying for mercy even as he stonily carries out his duties and obligations. He would like nothing more than to be free to offer mercy, even has he gives none.
 
@Warkeymon

To be clear. I am not interested in a reward, though I wont turn one away if offered. I wrote it because I was inspired by the plight of Gartrimm, who is praying for mercy even as he stonily carries out his duties and obligations. He would like nothing more than to be free to offer mercy, even has he gives none.
Inspiration is the best motivator. Seriously I just, cannot write for shit without inspiration.
 
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