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The Dawi in Arda (Hiatus)

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argenten said:
[X] Write-In a Recompense: 15-20 Silver ingots (we are getting 10 a turn, this pays it off and gets it done as simply as possible. Half again shows we take it seriously without going too far into appeasement territory.)
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I have no issue at all with that amount, but you know that 1000 SC of silver is 5 silver ingots, so we're paying three times as much as the minimum, not half again.

Again, no issue at all, just trying to get clarity. If the math is in relation to our silver income I don't think we advertise that.

Edit: I didn't perceive the change in our silver values for this.
 
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
I have no issue at all with that amount, but you know that 1000 SC of silver is 5 silver ingots, so we're paying three times as much as the minimum, not half again.

Again, no issue at all, just trying to get clarity. If the math is in relation to our silver income I don't think we advertise that.
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I mean half again what they are asking for, not the amount we get.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
I have no issue at all with that amount, but you know that 1000 SC of silver is 5 silver ingots, so we're paying three times as much as the minimum, not half again.

Again, no issue at all, just trying to get clarity. If the math is in relation to our silver income I don't think we advertise that.
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The SC of silver went down to only 100. The Noldor are upset so they've dropped their valuation of Dawi goods.
 
I like how this is sort of being run through Elrond first. It was clever of you @Warkeymon , it shows he's offering us a way to work the compensation and punishment through him such that he can provide advice on too high or too low without making it seem like he's favoring the guilty. It is some real diplomatic acumen fitting of the Peredhel, who sees how valuable good relations with us are.

cageorks said:
yeap and thats why im mad and them asking for so much
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Well we're massively in the wrong. Please be mad at the perpetrators, not the ones wronged.

@argenten
I appreciate you answering all my queries, this is a delicate matter and I merry wish to cover the details.

I do like how it seems we'll be getting across that we've essentially allowing the Noldor to, if they wish, execute the perpetrators via shame-induced suicide. That's gotta show we take it seriously.

And while Elrond isn't exactly going to be thinking "no one died, so y'know…" he is going to appreciate that fact.
 
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
I like how this is sort of being run through Elrond first. It was clever of you @Warkeymon , it shows he's offering us a way to work the compensation and punishment through him such that he can provide advice on too high or too low without making it seem like he's favoring the guilty. It is some real diplomatic acumen fitting of the Peredhel, who sees how valuable good relations with us are.
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And my reckoning is trying to play into that as well so that it looks like both sides are having not only fair say, but treating this with all due respect.


@argenten
I appreciate you answering all my queries, this is a delicate matter and I merry wish to cover the details.

I do like how it seems we'll be getting across that were essentially allowing the Noldor to, if they wish, execute the perpetrators via shame-induced suicide. That's gotta show we take it seriously.

And Elrond isn't exactly going to be thinking "no one died, so y'know…" he is going to appreciate that fact.
[/QUOTE]

Yup, IC and OOC it's very important we handle this rightly.

We are presenting our own punishments, giving the guilty parties an integrity/honor test of their own, and ensuring that we are not just sweeping it under the rug.

With how important hospitality is in Arda as I've mentioned before, knowing that we take this as seriously that we will *Not* let it happen again will hopefully allow the workers to come again
 
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[X] Write-In a Recompense: 15-20 Silver ingots (we are getting 10 a turn, this pays it off and gets it done as simply as possible. Half again shows we take it seriously without going too far into appeasement territory.)

[X] Write-In a Reckoning: At the very least those that participated in the attempted kidnapping will be given over to the Loremasters to study the laws and traditions passed down by the Ancestor gods as to the treatment of guests, the seriousness of the dishonor and Shame of attempting to kidnap a guest of the hold, and are to be taught as very young beardlings if that is how they wish to behave. They are to choose their own punishment from amongst the records as to how such behavior was dealt with in the past, with Lord Elrond and the families of the harmed being able to weigh in and veto if the punishment is deemed insufficient no less than once each.

cageorks said:
sigh.. your right my bad.
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I understand being passionate in these quests, inserting yourself in the characters. You shoulda seen the depressed mess I could be years ago in some quests after some gut wrenching events.
 
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I'm not really a fan of the vote to send them back to the Loremasters to be retaught Dawi values. At least some of the Noldor will be thinking that those same Dawi values they were taught the first time was what made the kidnapping seem like a good idea.

As the QM said, if this was between two Dawi clans the immediate expectation on what would be needed to fix it would be the Slayers Oath. The fact the victims are Noldor instead of Dawi doesn't make the crime any less serious, so why should the punishment any less severe?
 
Bloodalchemy said:
I'm not really a fan of the vote to send them back to the Loremasters to be retaught Dawi values. At least some of the Noldor will be thinking that those same Dawi values they were taught the first time was what made the kidnapping seem like a good idea.

As the QM said, if this was between two Dawi clans the immediate expectation on what would be needed to fix it would be the Slayers Oath. The fact the victims are Noldor instead of Dawi doesn't make the crime any less serious, so why should the punishment any less severe?
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You make a good argument. But how long would your vote suggestion on the previous page last? Until the Noldor feel it has been enough?
 
[X] Write-In a Recompense: 15-20 Silver ingots (we are getting 10 a turn, this pays it off and gets it done as simply as possible. Half again shows we take it seriously without going too far into appeasement territory.)

[X] Write-In a Reckoning: At the very least those that participated in the attempted kidnapping will be given over to the Loremasters to study the laws and traditions passed down by the Ancestor gods as to the treatment of guests, the seriousness of the dishonor and Shame of attempting to kidnap a guest of the hold, and are to be taught as very young beardlings if that is how they wish to behave. They are to choose their own punishment from amongst the records as to how such behavior was dealt with in the past, with Lord Elrond and the families of the harmed being able to weigh in and veto if the punishment is deemed insufficient no less than once each.
 
[X] Write-In a Recompense: 15-20 Silver ingots (we are getting 10 a turn, this pays it off and gets it done as simply as possible. Half again shows we take it seriously without going too far into appeasement territory.)


[X] Write-In a Reckoning: At the very least those that participated in the attempted kidnapping will be given over to the Loremasters to study the laws and traditions passed down by the Ancestor gods as to the treatment of guests, the seriousness of the dishonor and Shame of attempting to kidnap a guest of the hold, and are to be taught as very young beardlings if that is how they wish to behave. They are to choose their own punishment from amongst the records as to how such behavior was dealt with in the past, with Lord Elrond and the families of the harmed being able to weigh in and veto if the punishment is deemed insufficient no less than once each.
 
Not to mention us sending them to the Loremasters and having them come back with the punishments will help show the Noldor that yes, there are reasons why the workers will be safe, because *this* will happen in the future.

We're basically setting precedent when it comes to how we handle such events between us and the Noldor, from here on out. Best to be thorough and show the work as it were.
 
l agree with the Recompense wright in but l have done a new Reckoning that l like more

[X] Write-In a Recompense: 15-20 Silver ingots (we are getting 10 a turn, this pays it off and gets it done as simply as possible. Half again shows we take it seriously without going too far into appeasement territory.)

[X] Write-In a Reckoning: the oath of redemption all members involved will be equipped with the blessing of the clan elder. weapons and armour then they will be sent east into the land of man for 5 years where they will redeem themselves for attempted kidnaping by doing the complete opposite deed by saving as many life as possible from the beings of the dark forces and offering help to those in need. The path will be long and hard but no path worth walking is every completely easy
 
Now I'm torn…

Although, this is like 8,000 years of history. There should be some punishments that come close to Slayerhood there, no?
 
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
You make a good argument. But how long would your vote suggestion on the previous page last? Until the Noldor feel it has been enough?
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That is a good question. Lore wise both Dawi and Noldor think in centuries so putting a time limit on it seems wrong. Gameplay wise I want those bodies back to use ourselves.

Grrrr... This is LotR, the king of lore and world building. I can't put a time limit on it.

Reposting the votes so it's all together and adding a line about being soldiers untill the Noldor are happy.

[X] Write-In a Recompense: 15-20 Silver ingots (we are getting 10 a turn, this pays it off and gets it done as simply as possible. Half again shows we take it seriously without going too far into appeasement territory.)

[X] Write-In a Reckoning: The only reason every one of those that broke Hospitality is not already taking the Slayer Oath is because the Noldor do not yet know our people and traditions. Instead they will make up for their shame in a manner the Noldor can recognize and respect. The Hold shall outfit these Dawi in fine Steel arms and armor so that the Noldor don't have that burden. They shall be handed over to Elrond as soldiers to use as he sees fit. Whether it's spending their lives attacking orks and goblin infestations, or the drudgery of guarding trade caravans, or any other task, they shall do them all without complaint and with the upmost skill and dedication until Elrond deems them no longer needed.
 
If the Kidnappers are honest with themselves after violating guest rights, they will be offering themselves up for Slayerhood.

Only way they do not become Slayers is if the Noldor spare them.

"I am a dwarf, my honor is my life and without it I am nothing. I shall become a Slayer, I shall seek redemption in the eyes of my ancestors. I shall become as death to my enemies untill I face he that takes my life and my shame"
Ancestral Honor by Gav Thorpe.
 
Not to detract from the current situation, but did anyone else realize the meaning of the malus on Eotheod dice?

It's not because they're subpar compared to their fellow man or exhausted and dispirited, it's because they're that lower a standard compared to Dawi and, notably, Noldor (well, average Noldor).
 
Pretty much, by having them look at the history with the loremasters, they'll be confronted by the fact there is no way out and that we'd be well within our rights to demand their slayerhood, and that if they are not required of it, it will be due to the mercy of others.
 
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