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The Dawi in Arda (Hiatus)

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I think it would take way more troops than we'd want to commit to clear everything out and at the end of the day Neath doesn't have the forces to really leverage a victory. As the whole Framsburg/visit/dream sequence demonstrate his King's a knob so while we might get a lot of soft influence with the common dwarf the King is ungrateful and greedy so an alliance wouldn't do much for us.

We can't really evac Udrabax unless they decide they want to leave (and even then that'll be difficult). But killing orcs and goblins and getting some light combat experience isn't nothing. If we had powder we could probably drop a pass on some of the orcs. Best case I see is getting whatever refugees are trying to flee and giving them someplace nearby to go to. Can't remember if thundercleft is close or like way the hell past Erebor.
 
We only really have one front.

The creatures of the depths are staying in the depths for now, so no worries there.

The Orcs besieging Urdabax are the same Orcs that threaten Framsburg and our future reclamation.

I was willing to wait before because I thought the Dwarves would fight them off and then we could mop up the retreating remains.

But if the Orcs take Urdabax and are left relatively intact, they will threaten us again, with a huge army.
Our defenses are better than Urdabax, but if we help them, we could bleed the Orcs badly. A stone fortress is still a stone fortress.

So yes Urdabax orcs are part of the Framsburg front, even if they are currently absent. They will become our problem sooner or later if the pass through the mountain is destroyed.
 
You're 100% right @EVA-Saiyajin

Neath would 100% be a great help to re-taking the Framsburg. But that's a big host. It's a three throngs(Some 600+ troops), multiple batteries, the Rhunrikki and probably clan volunteers to even think about going to skirmish with. It stretches for miles. That's thousands, with a limit of probably 20k, maybe 30k but no more than that.

(I base that assumption on Saruman's army of 'tens of thousands [of Uruk-Hai]' to breach Helm's Deep and there 'being no such force' a edit:thousand years from now. But in comparison, a Dwarfhall > Helm's Deep so the enemy host might be fuckhuge. Also military camps, even a walking horde like this, will take up a lot more space than you think, since it also has to function like a town/city while sieging)

But that also means it's very vulnerable to supply line disruption. They aren't Orks who bring their supplies with them via their crazy fungal thing, these Urki are more akin to twisted men. They eat. They'll kill, butcher, and eat each other. And none of them will go quietly. Their attrition rate would be significant and likely to impact morale.

If we marched to Urdabax we'd be best off looking to attack the enemy's supplies and their scouts. Hopefully, they'll basically fall to infighting, and then we can smash.

That's the safest thing we can do unless Glorfindel shows, and it leaves us with troops vulnerable to outflanking in the field since the grobi control much of it between the Karak and Urdabax.

We also have to consider where those Gundabad Urks will turn to next. We aren't so far south from them as to be considered safe from them. They're the same orcs that hold the Eotheod's lands as well.

The choice is definitely a hard one.
 
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Yep, we'll probably end up trying to clear them out of Udrabax and Gundabad in 15-20 years. That'll give us and our allies time to grow, equip, train, and recover. We might also be able to draw a lot of them out as they try to pressure Framsburg. The question is if they'll grow quicker or if we can afford to hit them now.

Supply line stuff can disrupt them. Since we're not in tunnels getting surrounded or flanked means they could make our casualties significant or wipe us out which is why I'm hesitant to push for a stand up fight.
 
If I understand Geography correctly.

The Orcs are on the other side of the Mountains.
Udrabax should have an non-besieged back entrance.

We control the pass through the mountains.
Could we not send a force to the back entrance of Urdrabax and fortify the hold without ever risking an open battle?
 
Huh. Didn't think about it like that. I figured since it's Udrabax and we entered Udrabax from the south and Udrabax is called the gateway to the Grey Mountains…but small to cover both sides of the mountain.
 
It really depends on whether other people are going to try to break the siege. Glorfindel has gone to Mirkwood and Gandalf is going to join him. Maybe they're trying to convince Thranduil to raise an army to fight the orcs.

These are the same orcs who destroyed Framsburg, so it's possible that they might turn on the Mirkwood elves once they've finished with the dwarves. Thranduil might be encouraged to fight if he knows that his army will have assistance from the Dawi.
 
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Moneris said:
Could we not send a force to the back entrance of Urdrabax and fortify the hold without ever risking an open battle?
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My understanding of the construction of Urdabax is that is has a 'low', main entrance, and a back dwarf entrace that goes to the high dwarf road.

Sorta like a Dawi hold and the under-road, but up and not tunnels.

The back entrance of Urdabax leads to Silverplunge, afaik. So we'd have to march weeks there, and then weeks back.

Which also means weeks of being vulnerable on the move, dealing with Thain, and the possibility that the way is shut now.
 
[x] Plan: Western ties
-[x] Fortified Charcoal Pits 94/100 - 1 Beardling Die
-[x] Fortified and Decorated Barracks 127/160 - 1 Miner Die
-[x] Extensive North Pass Fortification, 187/240. - 1 Brewer 1 Beardling Dice
-[x] Excavate an Entrance Hall into one of the Peaks. 0/100 - East Peak - 2 Farmer 1 Brewer 2 Beardling Dice
--[x] +Huge, +50 to target
--[x] +Fortified, +30 to target
--[x] +Decorated, +10 to target
-[x] The Long Riders - 1 Eotheod Die
-[x] Eotheod Apprenticeships - Warsmiths - 2 Eotheod Dice
-[x] Fortify Greatmantle Clan Residences 48/60 - 1 Warsmith Die
-[x] Greatmantle Clan Tombs 54/60 - 1 Warsmith Die
-[x] Expand Leadbeard Clan Residences 26/60 - 1 Stonemason Die
-[x] Huge, Fortified and Decorated Upper Stairs, 104/140. 3/5 Levels Completed. - 1 Stonemason Die
-[x] Huge, Fortified and Decorated Powder Storehall, 148/190.. - 1 Farmer Die
-[x] Huge, Fortified and Decorated Powder Hall, 141/190. - 1 Stonemason 1 Beardling Dice
-[x] Storehall. 0/100 - Charcoal, West peak lowest level - 2 Miner 1 Beardling Dice
--[x] +Huge, +50 to target
--[x] +Fortified, +30 to target
--[x] +Decorated, +10 to target
-[x] Train the Beardlings - Merchants - 1 Beardling Die
-[x] Field Batteries - Grudge Throwers - 1 Engineer Die
-[x] Field Batteries - Bolt Throwers - 1 Carpenter Die
-[x] A Feast for the Hold - Gartrimm & Daungrumm
-[x] King Gisilhari - Diplomacy with Neighbouring Kings
-[x] Range Out From the Valley - South, East, and North Throng to be seconded to Gazrik for the Uzkular clearing
-[x] Meet with a Neighbour - West throng to meet with the Beornings or Woodsmen, whoever the Eotheod have the best relations with. The Eothoed to accompany them.
-[x] Grand Stall – Change to 1 Warsmith 2 Noldor Wine 4 Ankor Grain 3 Fruit 3 Vegetables


[x] [Grazur] Erebor the Lonely Mountain

[x] [Gazric] Cardolan
[x] [Drindut] Yes
[x] [Korin] Yes
 
Spylobster said:
It really depends on whether other people are going to try to break the siege. Glorfindel has gone to Mirkwood and Gandalf is going to join him. Maybe they're trying to convince Thranduil to raise an army to fight the orcs.

These are the same orcs who destroyed Framsburg, so it's possible that they might turn on the Mirkwood elves once they've finished with the dwarves. Thranduil might be encouraged to fight if he knows that his army will have assistance from the Dawi.
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He's looking for Glorfindel because the King in Gondor is depressed and they were on campaign together against Angmar.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
He's looking for Glorfindel because the King in Gondor is depressed and they were on campaign together against Angmar.
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Well, I'd think Glorfindel could convince him that the orcs in the north are a more pressing concern at the moment.

Also, I'm pretty sure Earnur is still only the prince of Gondor. Earnil II should still be king for another 30-35 years.
 
Changing my mind on the Grazur vote. The iron hills are way the heck east. Getting started on diplomacy with the elves of mirkwood could be useful since they'd have a reason to help us clear out framsburg in a handful of turns after we've established a relationship. I suspect Erebor won't care since they've got a new city to build and are pulling a ton of riches out of their mountain. Once we've got some relationship with the wood elves that'd also make travel (and trade) with Erebor easier.

[X] [Grazur] The Woodland Realm
[x] [Gazric] The Depths
[x] [Drindut] Yes
[x] [Korin] Yes

[x] Plan: Artillery!
 
KarmaA said:
Changing my mind on the Grazur vote. The iron hills are way the heck east. Getting started on diplomacy with the elves of mirkwood could be useful since they'd have a reason to help us clear out framsburg in a handful of turns after we've established a relationship. I suspect Erebor won't care since they've got a new city to build and are pulling a ton of riches out of their mountain. Once we've got some relationship with the wood elves that'd also make travel (and trade) with Erebor easier.

[X] [Grazur] The Woodland Realm
[x] [Gazric] The Depths
[x] [Drindut] Yes
[x] [Korin] Yes

[x] Plan: Artillery!
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You're missing out on an important detail. Grazur wants to take a break from Magic and all of the Quendi kingdoms make use of it to some extent.

Besides, earlier is better for establishing relations with Erebor.
 
@EVA-Saiyajin Forgot about that. Guess in-character Erebor makes the most sense. But I've got very low expectations! :D

Depths because of surface scent as well.

[X] [Grazur] Erebor the Lonely Mountain
[x] [Gazric] The Depths
[x] [Drindut] Yes
[x] [Korin] Yes

[x] Plan: Artillery!
 
So the Udrabax situation is really awkward. With the king abandoning them there goes any hope of him supporting our attack. But at the same time the whole vision made me like the lord a lot more and I don't want to let him die. Plus it means the orcs will take much less losses taking the place meaning they will almost certainly continue to be a serious threat

What I'd really like to do next turn maybe would be try to arrange some kind of conference between all the local leaders to try and arrange an alliance to relive them. Not sure how well that would go though. We may just have to look to our own defenses and focus on getting grudge throwers up for all four passes.

Crazy thought, could we tunnel our way past the orcs to reinforce Udrabax and help them hold their walls? Obviously we couldn't tunnel all the way from Drekfut but maybe we could get close and tunnel the last little bit.
 
Jreengus said:
Crazy thought, could we tunnel our way past the orcs to reinforce Udrabax and help them hold their walls? Obviously we couldn't tunnel all the way from Drekfut but maybe we could get close and tunnel the last little bit.
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Their army is spread out over miles. I don't think Dawi can dig with any appreciable speed while also being stealthy.

Edit: also, we'd effectively be sapping their defences
 
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Adhoc vote count started by EVA-Saiyajin on Feb 24, 2022 at 9:45 AM, finished with 59 posts and 10 votes.
artillery [grazur] [gazric] [drindut] [korin] artillerymod westernties
  • 9
    [x] Plan: Artillery!
    -[x] Fortified Charcoal Pits 94/100 - 1 Beardling Die
    -[x] Fortified and Decorated Barracks 127/160 - 1 Miner Die
    -[x] Extensive North Pass Fortification, 187/240. - 1 Brewer 1 Beardling Dice
    -[x] Excavate an Entrance Hall into one of the Peaks. 0/100 - East Peak - 2 Farmer 1 Brewer 2 Beardling Dice
    --[x] +Huge, +50 to target
    --[x] +Fortified, +30 to target
    --[x] +Decorated, +10 to target
    -[x] The Long Riders - 1 Eotheod Die
    -[x] Eotheod Apprenticeships - Warsmiths - 2 Eotheod Dice
    -[x] Fortify Greatmantle Clan Residences 48/60 - 1 Warsmith Die
    -[x] Greatmantle Clan Tombs 54/60 - 1 Warsmith Die
    -[x] Expand Leadbeard Clan Residences 26/60 - 1 Stonemason Die
    -[x] Huge, Fortified and Decorated Upper Stairs, 104/140. 3/5 Levels Completed. - 1 Stonemason Die
    -[x] Huge, Fortified and Decorated Powder Storehall, 148/190.. - 1 Farmer Die
    -[x] Huge, Fortified and Decorated Powder Hall, 141/190. - 1 Stonemason 1 Beardling Dice
    -[x] Storehall. 0/100 - Charcoal, West peak lowest level - 2 Miner 1 Beardling Dice
    -[x] Train the Beardlings - Merchants - 1 Beardling Die
    -[x] Field Batteries - Grudge Throwers - 1 Engineer Die
    -[x] Field Batteries - Bolt Throwers - 1 Carpenter Die
    -[x] A Feast for the Hold - Gartrimm & Daungrumm
    -[x] King Gisilhari - Diplomacy with Neighbouring Kings
    -[x] Range Out From the Valley - South throng to send rangers to observe the army besieging Udrabax and harass them at Gromurd Stoneskin's discretion, trying to avoid casualties.
    -[x] A Kull is Called - North throng to support Gazric and his cult in their task.
    -[x] Meet with a Neighbour - West throng to meet with the shifters , East throng to meet with the woodsmen. Eotheod to accompany whichever throng is meeting with those they have the best relations with.
    -[x] Grand Stall – Change to 1 Warsmith 2 Noldor Wine 4 Ankor Grain 3 Fruit 3 Vegetables
  • 10
    [x] [Grazur] Erebor the Lonely Mountain
  • 10
    [x] [Gazric] Cardolan
    [x] [Gazric] The Depths
    [x] [Gazric] Rhudaur
  • 10
    [x] [Drindut] Yes
  • 10
    [x] [Drindut] Yes
  • 1
    [x] Plan: Artillery mod
    -[x] Fortified Charcoal Pits 94/100 - 1 Beardling Die
    -[x] Fortified and Decorated Barracks 127/160 - 1 Miner Die
    -[x] Extensive North Pass Fortification, 187/240. - 1 Brewer 1 Beardling Dice
    -[x] Excavate an Entrance Hall into one of the Peaks. 0/100 - East Peak - 2 Farmer 1 Brewer 2 Beardling Dice
    --[x] +Huge, +50 to target
    --[x] +Fortified, +30 to target
    --[x] +Decorated, +10 to target
    -[x] The Long Riders - 1 Eotheod Die
    -[x] Eotheod Apprenticeships - Warsmiths - 2 Eotheod Dice
    -[x] Fortify Greatmantle Clan Residences 48/60 - 1 Warsmith Die
    -[x] Greatmantle Clan Tombs 54/60 - 1 Warsmith Die
    -[x] Expand Leadbeard Clan Residences 26/60 - 1 Stonemason Die
    -[x] Huge, Fortified and Decorated Upper Stairs, 104/140. 3/5 Levels Completed. - 1 Stonemason Die
    -[x] Huge, Fortified and Decorated Powder Storehall, 148/190.. - 1 Farmer Die
    -[x] Huge, Fortified and Decorated Powder Hall, 141/190. - 1 Stonemason 1 Beardling Dice
    -[x] Storehall. 0/100 - Charcoal, West peak lowest level - 2 Miner 1 Beardling Dice
    -[x] Train the Beardlings - Merchants - 1 Beardling Die
    -[x] Field Batteries - Grudge Throwers - 1 Engineer Die
    -[x] Field Batteries - Bolt Throwers - 1 Carpenter Die
    -[x] A Feast for the Hold - Gartrimm & Daungrumm
    -[x] King Gisilhari - Diplomacy with Neighbouring Kings
    -[x] Range Out From the Valley - South and North Throng to be seconded to Gazrik for the Uzkular clearing
    -[x] Meet with a Neighbour - West throng to meet with the Beornings, East throng to meet with the woodsmen. Eotheod to accompany whichever throng is meeting with those they have the best relations with.
    -[x] Grand Stall – Change to 1 Warsmith 2 Noldor Wine 4 Ankor Grain 3 Fruit 3 Vegetables
  • 2
    [x] Plan: Western ties
    -[x] Fortified Charcoal Pits 94/100 - 1 Beardling Die
    -[x] Fortified and Decorated Barracks 127/160 - 1 Miner Die
    -[x] Extensive North Pass Fortification, 187/240. - 1 Brewer 1 Beardling Dice
    -[x] Excavate an Entrance Hall into one of the Peaks. 0/100 - East Peak - 2 Farmer 1 Brewer 2 Beardling Dice
    --[x] +Huge, +50 to target
    --[x] +Fortified, +30 to target
    --[x] +Decorated, +10 to target
    -[x] The Long Riders - 1 Eotheod Die
    -[x] Eotheod Apprenticeships - Warsmiths - 2 Eotheod Dice
    -[x] Fortify Greatmantle Clan Residences 48/60 - 1 Warsmith Die
    -[x] Greatmantle Clan Tombs 54/60 - 1 Warsmith Die
    -[x] Expand Leadbeard Clan Residences 26/60 - 1 Stonemason Die
    -[x] Huge, Fortified and Decorated Upper Stairs, 104/140. 3/5 Levels Completed. - 1 Stonemason Die
    -[x] Huge, Fortified and Decorated Powder Storehall, 148/190.. - 1 Farmer Die
    -[x] Huge, Fortified and Decorated Powder Hall, 141/190. - 1 Stonemason 1 Beardling Dice
    -[x] Storehall. 0/100 - Charcoal, West peak lowest level - 2 Miner 1 Beardling Dice
    -[x] Meet with a Neighbour - West throng to meet with the Beornings or Woodsmen, whoever the Eotheod have the best relations with. The Eothoed to accompany them.
    -[x] Grand Stall – Change to 1 Warsmith 2 Noldor Wine 4 Ankor Grain 3 Fruit 3 Vegetables
    -[x] Train the Beardlings - Merchants - 1 Beardling Die
    -[x] Field Batteries - Grudge Throwers - 1 Engineer Die
    -[x] Field Batteries - Bolt Throwers - 1 Carpenter Die
    -[x] A Feast for the Hold - Gartrimm & Daungrumm
    -[x] King Gisilhari - Diplomacy with Neighbouring Kings
    -[x] Range Out From the Valley - South, East, and North Throng to be seconded to Gazrik for the Uzkular clearing
Click to expand...


A tie in Gazrik's target.
 
I think we can just sweep the Eotheod lands with a large Kull, ignoring Framsburg for now, and we'd greatly disrupt the Urki horde. It'd go towards a Grudge, and help our erstwhile allies.

Of course, getting scouting information this turn will really help in planning. I still see turn 21-22 being the start of some war turns, unless we do decide to turtle.

We could start scouting for the Urki mountain holds to the North to scour. I bet they're tunneled in more than a few places. Close quarters gives us such an immense advantage with our superior armament. Tunnel fighting is really strong for us, after all. And we'll want to push North anyways, to better support the Eotheod.

And every Runic item we can get to the throng is a huge bonus. Given our struggle in improving already established items we might want to look into new build items while we have an apprentice. (Runes of Light(If they ever become an actual action), and Runes of Stone are activities I want Linn on since they've got low DC) King G should totally get a runic item to celebrate the reconquest. A lance/spear or banner is probably best.

But for our throngs: Elder Urtain has a terror helm (Rune of Dismay is a weapon rune though so maybe an oversight by @Warkeymon )that's new build so it should go pretty easy, do it for more Leadbeard and Throng approval; Banners of Slowness and Courage can be knocked out pretty quick if singular-two runes are used and seeded amongst the throng; A warhorn with just the Master Rune of Dismay would be ridiculously OP in tunnels, great everywhere, and a fairly low DC; And then since we tend to go with our Throngs when we make big moves, I'm thinking that armor might be a priority for Gatrim's panoply, with each of the three armor runes Gurfroy has, and one of our few Gromril (Or Mithril maybe) pieces, otherwise I'd like to think about an Axe with double cleaving and a fire rune for explosive blows, or that Hammer idea Gutfroy has since we can use it for war and the forge (Karstah should be trained as a Warsmith since we're a healer) and it can become a King/Queen's weapon in later generations.
 
There are hints that the Commissions that pop up on their own are ways of expanding his ability to do stuff with runes so the terror helm might be legit while keeping Rune of Dismay as a weapon rune.
 
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