Ahahahahaholy Shit. This is some Perk incredible synergy.

From 30 units out, so there should be at least one turn between Marking the target and them reaching RS, meaning there should be enough time for an All Out Assault before the enemy can Charge unless they can fly.

Yes, this is definitely some good shit.


A -2 penalty is definitely more hefty than a -1, but All Out Assault would still be one heck of a Perk from a damage perspective. At worst, we'd need to switch focus from a mid-range Carbine/Rifle loadout to a Scatter/Carbine-focused one.

Marked For Death also doesn't have a time limit, so we can Mark a target as soon as they're within 30 units and just wait for a good moment an All out Assault. Marked For Death also doesn't specify the attack has to be Ranged, so Phenom can always intercept anyone trying to Charge in and Expose them to whatever Melee Weapons Shogun has, if he has the spare Advantage points.

I recommend a Georgius Blade on a Jaeger Sheath, if possible.
I don't think the Georgius Blade is a good idea. It would mean we would need to invest in Revolver's Dex Stat. Fists should be okay for now, and later we could maybe invest in a better built in weapon, since Revolver now has 2 in HtH.

Also here's a thought: If we remove the Laser Cannon, we could install another U-10 Autocannon. Later, we could also replace the missile tubes with the paired grenade launchers as well. That would be the 3 built-in weapons limit (strength of 3), since the revolver shotguns wouldn't count towards that strength limit. We could do 2 autocannon shots per turn (since the autocannons can fire twice) while the Kaiju close, then an All Out assault with 4 autocannon shots, 2 grenades, and the revolver pistols
 
I'll just link the doc that I had notes in. It wasn't exactly rigorous and scientific, I'll admit, but it should give an indication

docs.google.com

Jaeger Combat Test

Starting Distance: 60 units from each other (same as original fight against Viceroy) Revolver has paired kinetic Guillotines instead of its U-10 Autocannon SRSE-1 Kinetic Guillotine 2000 Resources Built-in Ranged Weapon (F) Attack Dice: 1d10 (pairs) Armour Penetration: 2 Damage Type: Edged Damag...
Okay, so I might've slightly overestimated how powerful its perks would be... at least short-term. On the other hand, it gets stronger with every gun we add.

Its planned loadout is two shoulder guns (currently slated as Kinetic Guillotines for barrier-cracking), two grenade launchers, and two hand-held shotguns, right? ...That sounds like some obscene overkill on whatever it's all pointed at to me. Of course, we don't have any shotguns statted yet, so that makes it a bit harder to get an accurate estimate...

I might do a test involving Guillotines, grenades, and an improvised shotgun design ripped from the IE-10 later. That would give a more accurate idea of how lethal it'll be when it's fully converted, right?
 
Last edited:
I don't think the Georgius Blade is a good idea. It would mean we would need to invest in Revolver's Dex Stat. Fists should be okay for now, and later we could maybe invest in a better built in weapon, since Revolver now has 2 in HtH.
The Georgius is not bad, as far as holdout or tertiary melee weapons go. It's exceptional, even. Dex helps with miscellanoues things such as (the closest equivalent there is in this system to) Spot checks and general improvisation rolls, while HtH helps Shogun to not die immediately in a Grapple. Considering RS shouldn't normally be in grapple of any kind, I think both are equally valuable though I concede thay HtH has an edge in that it is already one point higher than Dex.

The problem is that we don't really have any viable integrated melee weapons other than the Fangblades and the Destroyer Talons, and while the combat gauntlets are... serviceable, they're equal to the basic Fangblade at best, due to the advantages of Edged damage over Blunt damage. The Destroyer Talons are absolutely the better choice if we don't want to change the stat balance, but they take up an Arm slot each, and we can use those for more Ranged weapons.

A hand-held melee weapon can be stored on the spine or thighs with the Jaeger sheath, drawn as a Free Action and dropped with another Free Action. This is a niche weapon meant to be used in situations where Revolver Shogun's Ranged weapons aren't a good option, such as any situations where they can hit a clustered ally like a Grapple or close melee combat with a partner, and in that case the Georgius fills the role as a low-investment weapon that won't severely impact the build.

The Georgius Blade offers an off-the-shelf solution that requires little investment in both stats and Actions. I do concede that we can research more effective solutions in the future, and upon further thought equipping RS with Destroyer Talons is a good way to inprove ots melee and Grapple abilities, though at the cost of both Arm slots being taken up by weapons that aren't compatible with All Out Assault.
 
The Destroyer Talons are absolutely the better choice if we don't want to change the stat balance, but they take up an Arm slot each, and we can use those for more Ranged weapons.
Another issue with the Destroyer Talons: You can't use hand-held weapons very well while they're active. Melee weapons count as Improvised, while I doubt you can use guns at all. This, in turn, means that RS would need to drop whatever guns we put in its hands in order to use the Destroyers. Personally, I'd give it Georgius Bayonets for whatever guns it's holding.

Anyway, did a quick test of RS's All-Out Assault on Viceroy myself, this time using two Kinetic Guillotines, two grenade launchers (assumed Range 10/15/20 and Rifle-type, rolled damage results for Thunderspray and Frag), and two shotguns (basically IE-10 except Impact); I didn't do armor damage because I'm not 100% clear on the rules there, and I didn't check the Monty Python reference to make it easier on myself.

Pretty sure RS managed to do 6-7 Strikes (depending on whether it was using Frag or Thunderspray), and gave Viceroy -1 Agility and 4 Ongoing, in spite of being knocked off-balance before getting a chance to fire. The Guillotines (with 3 charge turns and successfully retaining the charge while Marking Viceroy) both got Minor Wounds, one to the torso and the other to the right thigh. The first grenade either gave 3 Temp Strikes and -1 to all rolls (Thunderspray) or a Glancing Wound (Frag); the second one missed. The shotguns, of course, bounced off, because Viceroy was almost immune to Impact (and I probably fired them too early to have any chance of doing damage anyway).

Without the Off-Balance penalty, I think it would've managed something completely ridiculous like 14 Strikes and 1d5 Ongoing with frags, or 11 Strikes plus a bunch of temp damage with Thunderspray, plus 1d10 Ongoing and -3 Agility either way, before Viceroy's damage mitigation abilities were factored in. Honestly, those're pretty close to a one-turn kill, and definitely crippling... and All-Out Assault, as it is now, doesn't seem to place any restrictions on reusage, so it'd probably just use another one next turn to finish Viceroy off (and damn the defensive penalties).

I think this still isn't a very good objective test of RS's perks, due to Viceroy's near-immunity to Impact damage and debuffing attack (and my own screw-ups in actually calculating everything, which I'm not sure I caught all of); however, after repeated revisions to include factors I forgot the first time (first range penalties, then Marked for Death), I at least managed to get something resembling an accurate result of RS vs. Viceroy. I'm not gonna go look for any other Kaiju to test RS on, though; I don't have the patience to sort through the stuff we've killed, find something that isn't seemingly purpose-built to screw RS over, run a test until RS gets off an All-Out Assault, triple-check to be sure I didn't forget any modifiers along the way, and then ask someone else to verify my results (a step which I've skipped for the test I did run, so I don't know if anyone will even consider this valid).
 
Ahahahahaholy Shit. This is some Perk incredible synergy.

From 30 units out, so there should be at least one turn between Marking the target and them reaching RS, meaning there should be enough time for an All Out Assault before the enemy can Charge unless they can fly.

Yes, this is definitely some good shit.


A -2 penalty is definitely more hefty than a -1, but All Out Assault would still be one heck of a Perk from a damage perspective. At worst, we'd need to switch focus from a mid-range Carbine/Rifle loadout to a Scatter/Carbine-focused one.

Marked For Death also doesn't have a time limit, so we can Mark a target as soon as they're within 30 units and just wait for a good moment an All out Assault. Marked For Death also doesn't specify the attack has to be Ranged, so Phenom can always intercept anyone trying to Charge in and Expose them to whatever Melee Weapons Shogun has, if he has the spare Advantage points.

I recommend a Georgius Blade on a Jaeger Sheath, if possible.
Stat-wise, a Built-in weapon would actually work much better (and give Revolver's points in HtH a purpose). That's why I kinda want to research combat-viable weaponized feet. Doesn't eat into our Built-in limit, while still giving us a Built-in Melee weapon. The hands Revolver currently has are pretty decent for combat, though not exceptional. They'll do for the moment as melee weapons, I think.
The Georgius is not bad, as far as holdout or tertiary melee weapons go. It's exceptional, even. Dex helps with miscellanoues things such as (the closest equivalent there is in this system to) Spot checks and general improvisation rolls, while HtH helps Shogun to not die immediately in a Grapple. Considering RS shouldn't normally be in grapple of any kind, I think both are equally valuable though I concede thay HtH has an edge in that it is already one point higher than Dex.

The problem is that we don't really have any viable integrated melee weapons other than the Fangblades and the Destroyer Talons, and while the combat gauntlets are... serviceable, they're equal to the basic Fangblade at best, due to the advantages of Edged damage over Blunt damage. The Destroyer Talons are absolutely the better choice if we don't want to change the stat balance, but they take up an Arm slot each, and we can use those for more Ranged weapons.

A hand-held melee weapon can be stored on the spine or thighs with the Jaeger sheath, drawn as a Free Action and dropped with another Free Action. This is a niche weapon meant to be used in situations where Revolver Shogun's Ranged weapons aren't a good option, such as any situations where they can hit a clustered ally like a Grapple or close melee combat with a partner, and in that case the Georgius fills the role as a low-investment weapon that won't severely impact the build.

The Georgius Blade offers an off-the-shelf solution that requires little investment in both stats and Actions. I do concede that we can research more effective solutions in the future, and upon further thought equipping RS with Destroyer Talons is a good way to inprove ots melee and Grapple abilities, though at the cost of both Arm slots being taken up by weapons that aren't compatible with All Out Assault.
While your points aren't wrong, due to using Elysium as the base, Revolver's already a few points off-design, including 2 points in what was previously a complete dump stat (HtH). Based on Jackal's example, we know combat-viable hands and feet (that aren't Bigger, Scarier Hands) are quite possible and would make quite a bit of sense for Revolver as built. While the Georgius Blade is nice and all, we'd still need to draw it and install a sheath for it. I think it would be better to give Revolver a Melee weapon it can utilize without dropping its shotguns and utilize those two "misplaced" points, rather than go with Dex as the Melee stat.

Also, even as originally written, Revolver would still have a +2 in Grapples. Even now, its 3 Str is doing more to keep it alive in Grapples than its 2 in HtH. People always seem to forget that HtH isn't the only stat at play once the Grapple has started.
 
I'm just gonna point out, Revolver doesn't need a melee weapon because scatter guns work just fine at point blank, and in the interim time between getting his pistols and now, hands and feet will do fine.
 
Stat-wise, a Built-in weapon would actually work much better (and give Revolver's points in HtH a purpose). That's why I kinda want to research combat-viable weaponized feet. Doesn't eat into our Built-in limit, while still giving us a Built-in Melee weapon. The hands Revolver currently has are pretty decent for combat, though not exceptional. They'll do for the moment as melee weapons, I think.

While your points aren't wrong, due to using Elysium as the base, Revolver's already a few points off-design, including 2 points in what was previously a complete dump stat (HtH). Based on Jackal's example, we know combat-viable hands and feet (that aren't Bigger, Scarier Hands) are quite possible and would make quite a bit of sense for Revolver as built. While the Georgius Blade is nice and all, we'd still need to draw it and install a sheath for it. I think it would be better to give Revolver a Melee weapon it can utilize without dropping its shotguns and utilize those two "misplaced" points, rather than go with Dex as the Melee stat.

Also, even as originally written, Revolver would still have a +2 in Grapples. Even now, its 3 Str is doing more to keep it alive in Grapples than its 2 in HtH. People always seem to forget that HtH isn't the only stat at play once the Grapple has started.
Guess we'll need to research those offensive feet, then.

I'm just gonna point out, Revolver doesn't need a melee weapon because scatter guns work just fine at point blank, and in the interim time between getting his pistols and now, hands and feet will do fine.
It's still good to have a melee weapon in case Revolver has to fight back-to-back with Phenom like Tacit and Jagdhund did last combat, and so they can exploit the Expose grapple action without risking friendly fire from Clustering.
 
Only real issue I have with the fact that people are talking about kicking feet right now is that they seem to be disregarding the possibility of bayonets. A Georgius Blade attached to the barrel would be a perfectly acceptable melee option, should one ever be required, and it would also be perfectly thematic for a gunslinger of pretty much any description.

I mean, yes, RS has higher HtH right now... but I'm pretty sure every hand-held gun we've seen so far has required at least 3 Dex to use, which means we'd probably have to focus on it pretty extensively to give it its full loadout. Yes, I know, we've only seen the stats for two hand-held guns, both of them built for generalists like Jagdhund. Doesn't make my concerns any less valid, and I'd like to get its Dex up at least one point by the time we research a shotgun just in case we need it to equip the thing.

Of course, if RS gets retooled so all its guns are built-in then that's a non-issue, but every time it's come up LDj has stated that he wants the shotguns to be handheld, which suggests a minimum required Dex value.
 
Only real issue I have with the fact that people are talking about kicking feet right now is that they seem to be disregarding the possibility of bayonets. A Georgius Blade attached to the barrel would be a perfectly acceptable melee option, should one ever be required, and it would also be perfectly thematic for a gunslinger of pretty much any description.
Y'ever seen a bayonet on a handgun that weren't part of a gag?
 
And then, suddenly, kaiju!

<WARNING! INCOMING KAIJU SIGNATURES DETECTED!>
<TRIPLE EVENT - CLASSIFICATIONS: CATEGORY IV, CATEGORY III, CATEGORY III>
<INBOUND FROM SOUTHEASTERN SECTOR, SOUTHWESTERN SECTOR>

For both cities!

<WARNING! INCOMING KAIJU SIGNATURES DETECTED!>
<DOUBLE EVENT - CLASSIFICATIONS: CATEGORY III, CATEGORY III>
<INBOUND FROM NORTHWESTERN SECTOR>

Roll your scanners for both cities! As I said last fight, we're gonna be resolving both battles simultaneously to save time!
 
Y'ever seen a bayonet on a handgun that weren't part of a gag?
Don't see any reason we couldn't stick a bayonet onto what amounts to a sawed-off shotgun.

Anyway, scanners.

...oops. Seattle's old issues are rearing their ugly head again, I see. Or we just found a bit of sabotage that didn't come up before and took time to actually take effect.
Sir Plusse threw 1 10-faced dice. Reason: Seattle Total: 1
1 1
Sir Plusse threw 1 10-faced dice. Reason: Everett Total: 6
6 6
 
Last edited:
Guess we'll need to research those offensive feet, then.


It's still good to have a melee weapon in case Revolver has to fight back-to-back with Phenom like Tacit and Jagdhund did last combat, and so they can exploit the Expose grapple action without risking friendly fire from Clustering.

Honestly Shogun bonking a Kaiju over the head with their fist will probably be fine for now, and with their Str and HtH its entirely possible for them to Grapple especially if they have help from Phenom.
 
I was actually serious about using Heartbreaker as the SimCom punching bag, btw. Anyone remember where his sheet went?
 
...I've forgotten too much of this system to do this myself, but unless I'm way off in my approximation Heartbreaker would not have fun.
 
...I've forgotten too much of this system to do this myself, but unless I'm way off in my approximation Heartbreaker would not have fun.
i'll try it, but have other stuff I need to do now.

also, @Fyrstorm
1. does the unbreakable base AV of 1/2 that cat 4 and cat 5s get apply even if their other armor isn't broken?
2. Is that base AV affected by AP, and is it reduced by Mark for Death
3. With layered armor, is AP only reduced by the amount it actually effected, IE
AP3 vs 2 layers of armor that each have AV 4/2: would the first layer reduce the AP by 2, since there is minimum AV of 2?
 
also, @Fyrstorm
1. does the unbreakable base AV of 1/2 that cat 4 and cat 5s get apply even if their other armor isn't broken?
2. Is that base AV affected by AP, and is it reduced by Mark for Death
3. With layered armor, is AP only reduced by the amount it actually effected, IE
AP3 vs 2 layers of armor that each have AV 4/2: would the first layer reduce the AP by 2, since there is minimum AV of 2?
1) Unbreakable AV only usually applies to locations that have had their armour broken. Something like the Safety Plate trait of the Sealed Piloting Chamber, meanwhile, would apply even if the armour's intact (also, I've now made note of that on your character sheets).
2) Unbreakable AV is assumed to have a Secondary AV equal to its Primary AV (since you can only have up to 2 Unbreakable AV at most), so AP weapons aren't any more effective against it than non-AP weapons. However, Mark for Death would work on Unbreakable AV, though it'd only really have a notable effect on Cat Vs (since half of Unbreakable AV 1 rounded up is still AV 1) or kaiju with Heavily Armoured (2+).
3) Given your example, AP 3 vs two layers of AV 4/2 wouldn't even penetrate the first layer. However, if it were AP 4, you'd penetrate the first layer (so it'd only provide AV 2), but you wouldn't have enough AP left over to affect the second layer. Thus, against AP 4, AV 4/2 + 4/2 results in AV -/2 + 4/2, or effective AV 6.
 
1) Unbreakable AV only usually applies to locations that have had their armour broken. Something like the Safety Plate trait of the Sealed Piloting Chamber, meanwhile, would apply even if the armour's intact (also, I've now made note of that on your character sheets).
2) Unbreakable AV is assumed to have a Secondary AV equal to its Primary AV (since you can only have up to 2 Unbreakable AV at most), so AP weapons aren't any more effective against it than non-AP weapons. However, Mark for Death would work on Unbreakable AV, though it'd only really have a notable effect on Cat Vs (since half of Unbreakable AV 1 rounded up is still AV 1) or kaiju with Heavily Armoured (2+).
3) Given your example, AP 3 vs two layers of AV 4/2 wouldn't even penetrate the first layer. However, if it were AP 4, you'd penetrate the first layer (so it'd only provide AV 2), but you wouldn't have enough AP left over to affect the second layer. Thus, against AP 4, AV 4/2 + 4/2 results in AV -/2 + 4/2, or effective AV 6.
Ok, thanks. I was applying AP incorrectly in my tests then.
 
Y'ever seen a bayonet on a handgun that weren't part of a gag?
Yes.
Not in person, but yes. I have a cousin who works for the US branch of CZ firearms. The bayonet is intended so someone can't manhandle your slide back to prevent firing, and presumably for having a bit of CQC capability.

Also per a product description I trawled across:
Accessory block with bayonet for the tactical variants of the 9 mm. CZ–75 pistol that have a Picatinny accessory rail.


Made by Česká Zbrojovka a. s. of Uherský Brod in the Czech Republic.


The tactical block (Průbojný Adaptér) serves to protect the muzzle and slide, enabling the user to break glass or other light materials while keeping the pistol pointed in the direction of a potential adversary. The block also prevents muzzle contact from moving the slide out of battery, which would prevent the pistol from firing. A steel bayonet blade may be attached, if desired.


The tactical block is very well made. The hilt is of aluminum alloy. The crosspiece and blade are steel.
 
@Fyrstorm new question, sorry:
what applies ongoing damage, aside from taking minor/major wounds to the neck or torso?
Any Minor Wound from a non-Blunt source automatically inflicts 1 Ongoing (Neck or Torso Wounds increase the amount), and any Major Wound from a non-Blunt source automatically inflicts 3 Ongoing (again, Neck or Torso Wounds add onto this). In addition, Vitals Damage can inflict additional ongoing.

That's about it.
 
Back
Top