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Super Robot Quest G

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Themarineguy said:
"It's not my fault they keep making me work with JUNK! I NEED QUALITY PARTS!"
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While amusing (and at least vaguely plausible), I find it more likely that they don't actually have a mad scientist, and have just been brute-forcing their advancements and calling it a success when their projects approach the stated goal because they aren't smart enough to figure out how to do it right. I mean, that's explicitly what they did for Warlord, and he was one of their commanders.

Now, I fully expect them to get a mad scientist at some point, to keep them relevant in the long term, but I doubt they have one right now. If they did, I'd expect them to have at least reverse-engineered the Jackal properly by now instead of that half-assed "shed at least half their mass when changing to robot mode" crap Ichiro dealt with.

Besides, remember our own origins: Our Super Robot designs were pretty much all built from scrapped vehicles (up to and including "salvaged enemy vehicles in various stages of destruction"). We'd only need to live in a cave to fulfill that Iron Man meme in full. Working with junk isn't exactly a problem to a sufficiently mad scientist; hell, it can even help him, because if it's junk he's not expected to give it back in the same condition he found it.
 
Sir Plusse said:
While amusing (and at least vaguely plausible), I find it more likely that they don't actually have a mad scientist, and have just been brute-forcing their advancements and calling it a success when their projects approach the stated goal because they aren't smart enough to figure out how to do it right. I mean, that's explicitly what they did for Warlord, and he was one of their commanders.

Now, I fully expect them to get a mad scientist at some point, to keep them relevant in the long term, but I doubt they have one right now. If they did, I'd expect them to have at least reverse-engineered the Jackal properly by now instead of that half-assed "shed at least half their mass when changing to robot mode" crap Ichiro dealt with.

Besides, remember our own origins: Our Super Robot designs were pretty much all built from scrapped vehicles (up to and including "salvaged enemy vehicles in various stages of destruction"). We'd only need to live in a cave to fulfill that Iron Man meme in full. Working with junk isn't exactly a problem to a sufficiently mad scientist; hell, it can even help him, because if it's junk he's not expected to give it back in the same condition he found it.
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Pak/PJH did mention a specific scientist/engineer on his payroll in one of his interludes. And the Westphalian design was noted to be all prototypes which suggests a wealth of money and a deficiency of common sense (or Pak/PJH half assing because he is a war profiteer at heart).
 
@Basarin A suggestion for the Perseus' initial combined form:

2x Sledders for the arms, customized model "Dobermans". Designed to reconfigure into two bulky arms with pneumatic engines to provide massively increased punching strength, and turning their tow cables into a grappling line to forcibly drag the opponent into melee range. The Psychic Theater enables an unearthly level of coordination and speed in unleashing the flurry of super heavyweight strikes.

After that it's just enhancing the payload of the punches themselves as an upgrade path
 
Shouldn't our new K-fang Spear provide Perseus with a frankly ridiculous offensive upgrade to begin with? Why not simply have the combined form armed with a finishing move grade K-Class weapon?

There's a part of me that wants Perseus combined form to be basically just Perseus but much larger. Heavy energy weapons and dispersion shield generators might just be most of what the scar loving machine spirt needs to go from soloing multiple basic kaiju to taking on larger encounters and winning.
 
Red_Knight25 said:
Shouldn't our new K-fang Spear provide Perseus with a frankly ridiculous offensive upgrade to begin with? Why not simply have the combined form armed with a finishing move grade K-Class weapon?
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Gotta agree with this. Doesn't invalidate the arm strength upgrades- swinging a weapon harder can't be a bad thing, after all; it's just that we don't really need to focus on punching when we've got a weapon to kill things with.

Admittedly, we might need backup weapons, in case we lose the spear too; however, there's nothing wrong with a Super Robot that focuses on weapons. I mean, just look at Super Robot Wars! Or Gun x Sword!
 
Sir Plusse said:
Admittedly, we might need backup weapons, in case we lose the spear too; however, there's nothing wrong with a Super Robot that focuses on weapons. I mean, just look at Super Robot Wars! Or Gun x Sword!
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we also have the Knife that the trio built as their first assignment. so the SR Teams technically have a Spear and a Knife as weapons. the blaster's don't count since they are guns and not melee weapons.
 
Fenrir Formation sounds Like an appropriately cool name for the beowulf new Tri-Combiner.

The New Halberd sounds like it will go great with Super rocket jumps. More Distance, More speed More impact on the Tip of a spear. A new age calvary charge one could say
 
Thors_Alumni said:
we also have the Knife that the trio built as their first assignment. so the SR Teams technically have a Spear and a Knife as weapons. the blaster's don't count since they are guns and not melee weapons.
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Maybe, but most Super Robots don't use knives; only one I know of is Genesic GaoGaiGar. Which means we should probably use a more... "super" backup.

Maybe some kind of axe? Axes are perfectly respectable Super Robot weapons, as frequently proven by Getter.
 
Sir Plusse said:
Gotta agree with this. Doesn't invalidate the arm strength upgrades- swinging a weapon harder can't be a bad thing, after all; it's just that we don't really need to focus on punching when we've got a weapon to kill things with.
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Didnt stop the Beowulf or Ichiro from taking advantage of fisticuff based weapons tho.

Sometimes you just need to turn something into a flattened smear against the closest flat surface, and as the most recent fight showed...We just dont make melee weapons tough enough to endure an entire battles worth of stresses

And frankly...If we're gonna want to be able to have one of our robots perform the legendary ORAORAORAORAORA rush?

Perseus would be the best fit imo
 
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TehChron said:
Didnt stop the Beowulf or Ichiro from taking advantage of fisticuff based weapons tho.

Sometimes you just need to turn something into a flattened smear against the closest flat surface, and as the most recent fight showed...We just dont make melee weapons tough enough to endure an entire battles worth of stresses

And frankly...If we're gonna want to be able to have one of our robots perform the legendary ORAORAORAORAORA rush?

Perseus would be the best fit imo
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Honestly, Ichiro strikes me as the most "punch things" Super Robot we've got, not Perseus. Perseus is more "keep enemies at a modicum of distance while tactically wearing them down for the killing blow" in my eyes, which means a spear is the best weapon it could possibly get.

...Where did you get "Perseus is the best for punching" from, when it's piloted by a commander and a skirmisher (neither of which is conducive to getting close enough to punch enemies)? Beowulf I can understand, since it's the "do everything" design (which includes punching), Ichiro makes sense because he's basically a berserker, the Thunderbolt makes sense because Jessica's almost as much of a berserker as Ichiro, but Perseus is too tactical to rely on punching as a first resort.
 
Sir Plusse said:
...Where did you get "Perseus is the best for punching" from, when it's piloted by a commander and a skirmisher (neither of which is conducive to getting close enough to punch enemies)
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Uhhhh..I'm sorry. But I'm going to have to stop you riiiight there.

A skirmisher, the combat role most suited to a hand to hand fighters necessary approach of rapid engagement and disengagement separate from a larger scrum. Is not suited for engaging opponents with its fists? In contrast to its debut showing which consisted of gunning, swording, and punching its opponents to death?

Okay, now with that off my chest.

The Perseus is going to be our biggest core unit by sheer mass up until we start converting gunships and carriers to fit the role. That's precisely the reason why a Timberwolf Formation style combination is redundant for it.

That means that it's also going to have the most mass to put behind those punches, which in turn means theyll be doing the most damage. And if you've ever tried throwing hands rapidly at someone fighting you before, the trick of it is coordinating your hits so that they go where they need to and having the leverage to actually do damage when they do.

The Perseus with a Sledder based combination can fulfill both those needs, and both pilots coordinating means theyll be able to keep up with the harsh demands of the maneuver.

Sir Plusse said:
Perseus is too tactical to rely on punching as a first resort.
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...Bro, boxing is insanely tactical

Bare handed combat has the highest skill ceiling of any classification of martial arts by virtue of how outrageously dangerous it is to do against someone with an actual weapon.

The margin for error is so much slimmer when blocking and parrying are so much more dangerous. It's all about managing distance and reading ahead of your opponent.
 
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TehChron said:
missing the point
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I don't care how "tactical" boxing is; a skirmisher's primary job, to my understanding, is to get in, hit something, and get out before the enemy kills them. I don't know about you, but I'd refuse to send a skirmisher out with anything less than a spear, so they have at least a modicum of a chance of getting out unstabbed.

And your statement on how much skill is required in unarmed combat is precisely why Perseus shouldn't do it. Unarmed combat is, quite literally, not their job. A commander should hang back so he has more room to assess the situation and give appropriate commands; a skirmisher is supposed to skirmish, i.e. hit-and-run tactics. How is boxing remotely compatible with either of those?!

If you're fistfighting someone, you can't afford to take even the slightest attention off them to even look at where you're going, never mind meddling in other fights. If you're punching someone, you're too close to avoid getting counterattacked. Thus, Perseus is not meant to punch things no matter how big he is because Tellison and Zhang aren't supposed to be punching things in the first place. It's basic logic: Don't just look at the robot, look at the people piloting the damn thing before deciding how to arm it.

If I wanted Perseus to punch things, I'd put Ichiro in there; he's our reckless, charge-in-and-punch-problems-until-they-go-away combatant.

edit: Think of it this way: You're charging a bear. Would you prefer to do so with a spear, or with your bare hands? Because if it's the latter, you're gonna die; if it's the former, you at least have a non-zero chance of survival.
 
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Sir Plusse said:
I don't care how "tactical" boxing
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Then dont presume to lecture anyone on anything related to it?

It's just that simple: Dont talk about things you have no clue about as if you were an authority on the subject.

When you're pulling your arguments out of the time honored sources of "I made it the fuck up" or "it came to me in a dream" then you cant complain when the points you raised based on them warrant the consideration that they rightfully deserve
 
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Unarmed combat has literally been a core component of all of our fights. It's literally a Super Robot staple.

Best to plan on it happening, and to gear towards supporting it.
 
TehChron said:
Then dont presume to lecture anyone on anything related to it?

It's just that simple: Dont talk about things you have no clue about as if you were an authority on the subject.

When you're pulling your arguments out of the time honored sources of "I made it the fuck up" or "it came to me in a dream" then you cant complain when the points you raised based on them warrant the consideration that they rightfully deserve
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Okay, then tell me: Exactly how many times have people gone to war unarmed (hint: never)? Because, as far as I can tell, that's what you're endorsing here: You're hyperfocusing on Perseus's punching power while neglecting how, ideally, its pilots will never need to throw a single punch for an entire battle because- guess what- that's what weapons are for.

Seriously, it's like you're not even reading what I'm posting here.

FallenTemplar86 said:
Unarmed combat has literally been a core component of all of our fights. It's literally a Super Robot staple.

Best to plan on it happening, and to gear towards supporting it.
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I don't have a problem with punching; it's TehChron's implication that Perseus would rely on punching to the exclusion of all other forms of melee that I have a problem with.

Punching things should be Perseus' last resort. Not its first, not its second, not its tenth; it should only punch things when it has literally no other form of attack available at the moment.

So while we gear towards supporting Perseus' punching ability, we should also gear towards postponing the necessity to punch as long as humanly possible.
 
Sir Plusse said:
Exactly how many times have people gone to war unarmed
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Pretty damn often in Guerrilla Warfare actually. Also going to Battle and Skirmishes historically people grab whatever on hand, which quite often can be literally nothing.

Also a Super Robot is a Weapon, and as Chron pointed out, our material tech hasn't provided a reliable weapon that can withstand the stresses of Super Robot combat. The heavily reinforced limbs of our Units can. Our new K-fang weapon hasn't passed the trial of combat, and even if it does, we have been disarmed of every melee weapon used thus far.
 
FallenTemplar86 said:
Guerrilla Warfare
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Also known as "you don't have access to weapons but are forced to fight anyway."

And while our Super Robots are weapons, they are weapons directly controlled by the pilots' minds. If the pilot doesn't know how to punch, the robot can't punch worth a damn. If the pilot would prefer a weapon of some sort between himself and an enemy, you should probably arm the robot with that weapon because that fighting style can and will transfer to whatever they're piloting.

tldr: I'm demanding weapons for Perseus because, like it or not, I can't see Tellison or Zhang fighting unarmed if they can possibly help it.
 
Okay, I would like to note that I'm not getting the implication here. TehChron wants Perseus to be good at punching yes. Thing is, Perseus kinda already is very good at punching. Like a significant percentage of the damage he dealt last fight was almost exclusively throwing hands. I didn't notice him saying anything about not giving Perseus the K-fang Spear.

Basically, you're talking about giving Perseus an offence beyond 'We cast Fist!' But we're apparently not good enough at casting fist? I don't know anymore, this argument is confusing.
 
Can't We just stick rocketlaunchers on the Hardpoints and call it a day?

Side note when are the Westphalians getting their own mad scientist @Basarin ?
Cause if they dont their performance just.... leaves a lot to be desired.
 
Red_Knight25 said:
Okay, I would like to note that I'm not getting the implication here.
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The implication was when TehChron specifically noted that he would prefer ORAORAORA (as in, JoJo punch-spam) from Perseus. If he'd just say that I was mistaken in the assumption that he is specifically endorsing Perseus as an unarmed specialist I'd shut up. But instead, he doubled down by specifically bringing boxing into things.
 
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