Subsumption (PMMM Faux-Quest) (Witch MC)
Now I am wondering if eating Tira familiars stacks with eating Tiras.
BlackoutSampler
So Easily Forgotten
One thing about Witch Barriers that I've noticed is that they're often Cyclic. The Labyrinth falls into a pattern which neither the Witch nor the Labyrinth itself can escape from. So while "scenes" might play out like the escape of the Familiar, if nothing changes by the end of the day everything will be back to the status Quo.
So if we do nothing, the Tira-Familliar will get caught, and dragged back to make this act all over again.
So, I would like to break that cycle in a way. Forcing the Witches out of their "rut" has proven mostly beneficial for the previous 2 cases. The removal of Saar generally made her garden barrier a happier place. And giving Charlotte's barrier something other than sweets to work with seems to have calmed down both Charlotte and her Familiars.
While I don't think helping the Tira-Familliar escape will be the best for the short term, as it will probably send Candeloro into a fit for a while. I do think it's the first step in breaking her out of said rut.
That Said, I'd prefer to make sure we're at least somewhat subtle about our help.
[X] Help the familiar escape Candeloro. It is the attacked party here, and if it's this desperate to get away from its master, you can't help but wonder if that might just be justified.
-[X] Direct the Maid familiar to the tall grass of your own barrier. It's the perfect place for someone to escape pursuit.
Step two in breaking Candeloro's rut would be to invite her to a party outside of her barrier/house. We need to beat her over the head with the idea that:
A) just because people aren't in your house doesn't mean they stop to exist.
B) you can visit friends to have parties/not be lonely as well, you don't have to wait for people to stumble into your life/house and keep them their like some sort of stalker.
[X] Have Sayaka and Tira get out of sight. You don't want Candeloro forcing them back into her cottage the second she notices they left it.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that if they stick around, nothing is going to change, and we're going to have to Shawshank Redemption their way out this time around.
So if we do nothing, the Tira-Familliar will get caught, and dragged back to make this act all over again.
So, I would like to break that cycle in a way. Forcing the Witches out of their "rut" has proven mostly beneficial for the previous 2 cases. The removal of Saar generally made her garden barrier a happier place. And giving Charlotte's barrier something other than sweets to work with seems to have calmed down both Charlotte and her Familiars.
While I don't think helping the Tira-Familliar escape will be the best for the short term, as it will probably send Candeloro into a fit for a while. I do think it's the first step in breaking her out of said rut.
That Said, I'd prefer to make sure we're at least somewhat subtle about our help.
[X] Help the familiar escape Candeloro. It is the attacked party here, and if it's this desperate to get away from its master, you can't help but wonder if that might just be justified.
-[X] Direct the Maid familiar to the tall grass of your own barrier. It's the perfect place for someone to escape pursuit.
Step two in breaking Candeloro's rut would be to invite her to a party outside of her barrier/house. We need to beat her over the head with the idea that:
A) just because people aren't in your house doesn't mean they stop to exist.
B) you can visit friends to have parties/not be lonely as well, you don't have to wait for people to stumble into your life/house and keep them their like some sort of stalker.
[X] Have Sayaka and Tira get out of sight. You don't want Candeloro forcing them back into her cottage the second she notices they left it.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that if they stick around, nothing is going to change, and we're going to have to Shawshank Redemption their way out this time around.
Huh, thats a good idea...we could use the familiar to lure Candeloro out of her Barrier maybe?
[X] Lead the familiar into Charlotte's Barrier, good way to get Candeloro to meet a new friend who'd be happy with tea parties in the chase.
[X] Have Sayaka and Tira get out of sight. You don't want Candeloro forcing them back into her cottage the second she notices they left it.
Olivebirdy
mook.
Inviting her over to us for a party sounds like an excellent idea.
[X] Have Sayaka and Tira get out of sight. You don't want Candeloro forcing them back into her cottage the second she notices they left it.
-[X] Translate a message from Tira and Sayaka into Witch Runes, then Tira writes it down on the wrapping paper.
--[X] Thank her for the food and the gifts, they really enjoyed them. Unfortunately they need to go now, but they promise they'll be back.
An alternate attempt to therapize Candeloro. Promise to come back, and then keep that promise.
We could invite her to the Canvas, then set up a stage show.
-[X] Translate a message from Tira and Sayaka into Witch Runes, then Tira writes it down on the wrapping paper.
--[X] Thank her for the food and the gifts, they really enjoyed them. Unfortunately they need to go now, but they promise they'll be back.
An alternate attempt to therapize Candeloro. Promise to come back, and then keep that promise.
We could invite her to the Canvas, then set up a stage show.
Familiars can be intelligent and it was frowning before it ran off. Maybe it intentionally caused a distraction so that Sayaka and Tira would leave. Perhaps it was jealous of the attention they were getting.
The previous theory that it ran off because it wanted to escape also makes a lot of sense.
The previous theory that it ran off because it wanted to escape also makes a lot of sense.
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Alphaleph
The Firstiest of First
[X] Help the familiar escape Candeloro. It is the attacked party here, and if it's this desperate to get away from its master, you can't help but wonder if that might just be justified.
-[X] By using her as a distraction to Subsume Candeloro. You're curious whether you'll get Mami the Meguca or Candeloro the Witch.
-[X] By using her as a distraction to Subsume Candeloro. You're curious whether you'll get Mami the Meguca or Candeloro the Witch.
Flairina
Least Omnipotent Goddess
- Location
- The next infinity over
No, you're correct, at least by the way I'm writing things here. It's just that we've never really seen someone confront/encounter a witch or familiar in the series proper who wasn't either a) a magical girl, b) a magical girl potential, or c) witch kissed, and therefore too out of it to really serve as a good baseline. Walpurgisnacht makes it a little confusing since she has no barrier (supposedly) but normal people still can't see her, and there's an early claim that normal people can't see witches that comes before barriers are explained. Magia Record however has un-kissed civilians ending up in witch labyrinths in some of the side story missions, who can very clearly see the monsters attacking them. So yeah, assume that while inside of barriers, witches and familiars are perfectly visible to normal people.
No worries, I'm not that wasteful --- I've bought the guaranteed four-star packs and such, but as much as it feels like failing to not get the girl you were rolling for, it feels even more like failing to try and get them by just paying out oodles of money, not to mention there's still no guarantee of it even then. I wanted Madokami for my "Fancy Dress Party" team, but she'll almost certainly be back. Nagisa though, I wanted for... well, my "Subsumption" team actually. ^_^; It's meant to star the current and former inhabitants of the barrier, and presently consists of Sayaka, Mami, Kanoko (subbing in for Tira), and Konomi (subbing in for Saar), but without Nagisa to represent Charlotte, there's a rather glaring hole in the lineup. True, you can only have four of your own girls per team, but no one HAS Nagisa on support because of all the limited banners that came before her... plus, I just really would have liked to get her. Ah well.
The problem with making a wish solely for the purpose of keeping your sanity as a witch is that it basically just puts you in Ashtaroth's position --- sure, you're technically free of all prior responsibilities due to now being legally dead/missing, but where do you go from there? Most goals you may have wanted to achieve as a human are likely no longer attainable, and there will be magical girls coming after you no matter what you do, unless you decide to head into space, or settle in the middle of the ocean I suppose. I guess if the things you wanted to accomplish revolve around killing people, that's now a lot easier to do undetected, but... er, let's just not go there.
As for wishing to exist as a single entity with one's witch, swapping off who controls the body periodically... isn't there a quest revolving around that idea on spacebattles? :?
It's always been my assumption that Kyubey approaches girls that he specifically suspects will not think too deeply into what he's offering, as that makes them much more likely to contract, and therefore to not be a waste of his time. Of course, he doesn't understand emotions, and is certainly not all knowing, so this doesn't always pan out. Those with high enough potential seem to be reason enough for him to try anyways, even with people like, say, Isabeau.
Indeed.
Mind, this is just how Ashtaroth's description would look if she chose to leave a bunch of witches unsubsumed, but still living in the barrier. Her "development"/evolutionary path (so to speak) is dependent on the choices she makes, and could end up diverging even from something seemingly innocuous.Going by the previous "Scorch and Torch" naming, I imagine Ashtaroth's codename would just be Ash, and Candeloro's would be... Coal? Ember? Something along those lines. Either way, getting Renata into the barrier is seeming like more and more of a priority, hehe.
She has ribbons, you have ribbons, she's minuscule, you're enormous, she has abandonment issues, you can't leave the barrier... it's a natural fit!
Correct. Note however that the reason Charlotte so desires cheese is because Nagisa essentially began equating it with motherly love, something she could no longer get once her mother was hospitalized and turned bitter and hateful towards her. Which makes something that was largely "cute" before now all the sadder.
(And yes, now that I've seen it, Nagisa's backstory from Magia Record IS canon to this story. I actually found I quite liked it, all told --- there were some very interesting tidbits in it, and honestly, it was pretty appropriate for Madoka Magica. Much better than some of the other event plotlines we've had.)
Not necessarily true. Though some familiars do actively dislike or harass their witch (the Kotori with Shin, the Brandy with Saar), others are nothing but helpful, with witches that actively appreciate their presence, or even outright depend on them (the Holgers with Oktavia, the Josephs with Rebecca, the Bona with Paola). Others are simply ignorant of their witch's wants (the Anja with Albertine, the Gotz with Roberta), and may annoy them incidentally, while still more simply have no will of their own (the Mathieu with Patricia, the Bartels with Uhrmann). Generally, familiars don't seem directed towards making their witch miserable --- there's as much variety to them and their goals as there is with the witches themselves.
That's pretty high praise in and of itself, so no worries, I'm flattered regardless! 🥰
Heh... coincidentally, Fánrén Kāng, the Cherishment witch from the original version of this story (and who now only exists as an illusion in the "Too Convincing" Bad End) was actually based around an idea not too far from that. She wasn't using her gifts as bait exactly, but the theming was pretty similar.
I wouldn't say Candeloro is abusive so much as... possessive. Very, very possessive.
Something to be addressed another time, perhaps.
Quite, especially as Candeloro is giving Sayaka what could largely be considered the most valuable and precious things she has.
Unlike H.N. Elly/Kirsten, Candeloro is far more eager to UNbox memories than lock them up even tighter.
Note that the Du Polignacs' profile implies that running away from Candeloro is a very common thing for them, despite the witch considering them to be treasured friends.
The original wording of the line used "whispers", not "gasps", if that helps.
Heh, not untrue, but hopefully it didn't come off too poorly. Sometimes, just sitting around and waiting until an opportunity presents itself really is the best option, after all.
It may be worth noting that even though Kyoko cut ties with Mami as well, Mami at least understood why that happened, what with Kyoko suddenly losing her entire family. The breaking of their alliance was clear cut, and explicitly stated by Kyoko directly to Mami's face.
Tira, however, seemingly just disappeared. No notice, no warning, no explanation of any kind. It wasn't at all unreasonable for Mami to believe she had died... and the uncertainty of it made it hurt all the more.
Eating things/stuffing things inside of other things cannot be your solution to every problem! 😖
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- Location
- Madison, AL
No, you're correct, at least by the way I'm writing things here. It's just that we've never really seen someone confront/encounter a witch or familiar in the series proper who wasn't either a) a magical girl, b) a magical girl potential, or c) witch kissed, and therefore too out of it to really serve as a good baseline. Walpurgisnacht makes it a little confusing since she has no barrier (supposedly) but normal people still can't see her, and there's an early claim that normal people can't see witches that comes before barriers are explained. Magia Record however has un-kissed civilians ending up in witch labyrinths in some of the side story missions, who can very clearly see the monsters attacking them. So yeah, assume that while inside of barriers, witches and familiars are perfectly visible to normal people.
No worries, I'm not that wasteful --- I've bought the guaranteed four-star packs and such, but as much as it feels like failing to not get the girl you were rolling for, it feels even more like failing to try and get them by just paying out oodles of money, not to mention there's still no guarantee of it even then. I wanted Madokami for my "Fancy Dress Party" team, but she'll almost certainly be back. Nagisa though, I wanted for... well, my "Subsumption" team actually. ^_^; It's meant to star the current and former inhabitants of the barrier, and presently consists of Sayaka, Mami, Kanoko (subbing in for Tira), and Konomi (subbing in for Saar), but without Nagisa to represent Charlotte, there's a rather glaring hole in the lineup. True, you can only have four of your own girls per team, but no one HAS Nagisa on support because of all the limited banners that came before her... plus, I just really would have liked to get her. Ah well.
The problem with making a wish solely for the purpose of keeping your sanity as a witch is that it basically just puts you in Ashtaroth's position --- sure, you're technically free of all prior responsibilities due to now being legally dead/missing, but where do you go from there? Most goals you may have wanted to achieve as a human are likely no longer attainable, and there will be magical girls coming after you no matter what you do, unless you decide to head into space, or settle in the middle of the ocean I suppose. I guess if the things you wanted to accomplish revolve around killing people, that's now a lot easier to do undetected, but... er, let's just not go there.
As for wishing to exist as a single entity with one's witch, swapping off who controls the body periodically... isn't there a quest revolving around that idea on spacebattles? :?
It's always been my assumption that Kyubey approaches girls that he specifically suspects will not think too deeply into what he's offering, as that makes them much more likely to contract, and therefore to not be a waste of his time. Of course, he doesn't understand emotions, and is certainly not all knowing, so this doesn't always pan out, and a high enough potential is enough reason for him to try anyways, even with people like, say, Isabeau.
Indeed.
Going by the previous "Scorch and Torch" naming, I imagine Ashtaroth's codename would just be Ash, and Candeloro's would be... Coal? Ember? Something along those lines. Either way, getting Renata into the barrier is seeming like more and more of a priority, hehe.
She has ribbons, you have ribbons, she's minuscule, you're enormous, she has abandonment issues, you can't leave the barrier... it's a natural fit!
Correct. Note however that the reason Charlotte so desires cheese is because Nagisa essentially began equating it with motherly love, something she could no longer get once her mother was hospitalized and turned bitter and hateful towards her. Which makes something that was largely "cute" before now all the sadder.
(And yes, now that I've seen it, Nagisa's backstory from Magia Record IS canon to this story. I actually found I quite liked it, all told --- there were some very interesting tidbits in it, and honestly, it was pretty appropriate for Madoka Magica. Much better than some of the other event plotlines we've had.)
Not necessarily true. Though some familiars do actively dislike or harass their witch (the Kotori with Shin, the Brandy with Saar), others are nothing but helpful, with witches that actively appreciate their presence, or even outright depend on them (the Holgers with Oktavia, the Josephs with Rebecca, the Bona with Paola). Others are simply ignorant of their witch's wants (the Anja with Albertine, the Gotz with Roberta), and may annoy them incidentally, while still more simply have no will of their own (the Mathieu with Patricia, the Bartels with Uhrmann). Generally, familiars don't seem directed towards making their witch miserable --- there's as much variety to them and their goals as there is with the witches themselves.
That's pretty high praise in and of itself, so no worries, I'm flattered regardless! 🥰
Heh... coincidentally, Fánrén Kāng, the Cherishment witch from the original version of this story (and who now only exists as an illusion in the "Too Convincing" Bad End) was actually based around an idea not too far from that. She wasn't using her gifts as bait exactly, but the theming was pretty similar.
I wouldn't say Candeloro is abusive so much as... possessive. Very, very possessive.
Something to be addressed another time, perhaps.
Quite, especially as Candeloro is giving Sayaka what could largely be considered the most valuable and precious things she has.
Unlike H.N. Elly/Kirsten, Candeloro is far more eager to UNbox memories than lock them up even tighter.
Note that the Du Polignacs' profile implies that running away from Candeloro is a very common thing for them, despite Candeloro considering them to be treasured friends.
The original wording of the line used "whispers", not "gasps", if that helps.
Heh, not untrue, but hopefully it didn't come off too poorly. Sometimes, just sitting around and waiting until an opportunity presents itself really is the best option, after all.
It may be worth noting that even though Kyoko cut ties with Mami as well, Mami at least understood why that happened, what with Kyoko suddenly losing her entire family. The breaking of their alliance was clear cut, and explicitly stated by Kyoko directly to Mami's face.
Tira, however, seemingly just disappeared. No notice, no warning, no explanation of any kind. It wasn't at all unreasonable for Mami to believe she had died... and the uncertainty of it made it hurt all the more.
Eating things/stuffing things inside of other things cannot be your solution to every problem! 😖
I wouldn't mind those aspects of my new existence, I think I probably would go to space, hang around the ISS, learning about rockets.
BlackoutSampler
So Easily Forgotten
You clearly are in the wrong thread if you think Eating things is not the best answer for everything. Asteroth is the witch of Subsumtion after all. We're just staying in theme.
Also, I can imagine the Witch Radio broadcast to turn out like the Isabelle and Sans Podcast.
So we hope the party actually has an end. Preferably without Sayaka or Tira getting eaten.
On the other hand, Charlotte didn't get hostile or really react in any way. Seems like the Witch rune experiment has to wait a bit.
Tira and Sayaka should get her a mask to fix that lack of face. Maybe some Groucho glasses?
I wonder if this is a reaction to what happened with the Skull Witch or if she has some bad experience with letting someone else cook.
Huh, Ashy knows that fairy tale. But Nah, we already know Candeloro doesn't have an oven to cook them and she has maids for any chores. If this is a reference to the fairy tale though, then Candeloro should have a pile of treasure lying around.
Is Tiras appetite from being subsumed, her missing breakfast because of the meeting with Mami and Ashy, or is she a stereotypical Big Eater?
I wonder if they do deliveries...
Huh, I thought Candeloros' theme were holidays, with the "Happy Birthday" bush being a reference to her just hatching. Seems like she does all kinds of celebrations though.
Maybe even funerals?
It's interesting that these pictures are the only other thing we have seen, besides the Familiars, that have ribbons on them. Then there is the fact that Candeloro gave both Sayaka and Tira pictures that are associated with them, after pulling them out of literal mountains of presents.
I think this is how Mamis Wish manifests in Candeloro. Her Wish was "to connect to life" where life is defined by Mami as her friends due to her issues with loneliness. So her Wish preserved those connections, which is why she could give Tira and Sayaka pictures that show their interactions with Mami without mixing them up, but nothing else.
I think Candeloro has most of Mamis's memories, that concern her friends but not the context to understand them, and so they ended up as externalized pictures.
Huh, I wonder why the Tira-Familiar lacks the ribbons. Maybe because she left Mami? But Kyoko did that too and the Familiars based on her do have ribbons. Maybe it's because of how Tira refused any contact with Mami and how betrayed Mami felt about it, once she found out? Or maybe it's because she thought Tira was dead, unlike Sayaka or Kyoko?
That's presumably one of the changes compared to Canon. It looks like the Du Poligac's have more duties than just to guide visitors. I wonder what their Novella entries would say...
[X] You somehow need to get information about what's going on and Candeloro just left her cottage full of Familiars. Subsume a few to get at least a partial Novella entry about Candeloro. There will be holes in it but it should give you some idea about what she wants.
[X] Have Sayaka and Tira get out of sight. You don't want Candeloro forcing them back into her cottage the second she notices they left it.
This seems like a relatively safe way to learn more about Candeloro IC. At least while she is busy hunting her one unique Familiar.
[X] Lead the familiar into Charlotte's Barrier, good way to get Candeloro to meet a new friend who'd be happy with tea parties in the chase.
But this is also a good idea.
Even without Ashy intervening, there already are external factors. After all, normally the hunt would be limited to one Barrier, with the Familiar either being caught or escaping once Candeloro can't follow her anymore. But if the Familiar makes it to Charlotte's maze...
It's interesting that she even has a "development"/evolutionary path. Most Witches exist in a cycle of hatching, then eating people, then getting killed by magical girls, then being used to clean Soul Gems, then being "eaten" by Kyubey and then hatching again somewhere else.Indeed.
At least going by what happened to Charlotte.
That's depressing.
But we won't know that for sure until we try!
Olivebirdy
mook.
Haaave you read Voracity?
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hillo315
Intact but Tactless
- Location
- Somewhere. Somewhere else.
Candeloro: *PTSD intensifies, flashbacks galore*- [
Kirsten: mine mine mine
Candeloro: Stop! No swiping! Bad box! No memories for you!
Ah. I think Tira is starting to realize that she's the antagonist in Mami's life.
Nah, it's perfectly fine. Didn't even make a dent in my SoD. My only question is how the familiar showed up so suddenly, but it's probably just Atalanta running speeds.
Speaking of Atalanta...
[X] Distract Candeloro by tossing apples in her direction.
Yes, there is.
...Sorry, were you asking for a link?
Matchmaker, matchmaker, ship me a ship.
I do know of one problem it might solve, though.
- Eat Candeloro.
- Spit out Mami body.
But Ashy herself doesn't want to stay in theme...
If Ashy eats all the witches, she can get the Mephisto mask as a prize. Her way forward is clear.
So she might be expecting terrible cuisine from when they actually knew each other. Good to know.
You mean like the memory presents?If this is a reference to the fairy tale though, then Candeloro should have a pile of treasure lying around.
Memories are precious. Friends are precious. Everything else is replaceable.
There usually isn't much time or reason to evolve like that, both before and after hatching. It does happen, though.
Farseer Sen'Zabl
Accolyte of 'Common Sense'
- Location
- Dome of Crystal Seers, Ulthwe
[X] Help the familiar escape Candeloro. It is the attacked party here, and if it's this desperate to get away from its master, you can't help but wonder if that might just be justified.
-[X] Direct the Maid familiar to the tall grass of your own barrier. It's the perfect place for someone to escape pursuit.
If we can be subtle about this it seems like a good idea to me; I'm all for helping the rogue familiar (at least as long as it doesn't leave our barrier in search ofsouls snacks) but I'd rather be a tad more prepared to fight Candeloro before we have a crack at her.
Plus this is dangerously close to how this mess with Mami started in the first place, Us taking one of her 'friends' from her... I wouldn't be surprised if Candeloro just went utterly berserk if she realises that we're doing it again.
[X] Have Sayaka and Tira get out of sight. You don't want Candeloro forcing them back into her cottage the second she notices they left it.
Sounds like the best way to avoid an immediate conflict with Cande' and still get ourpuppets friends back.
-[X] Direct the Maid familiar to the tall grass of your own barrier. It's the perfect place for someone to escape pursuit.
If we can be subtle about this it seems like a good idea to me; I'm all for helping the rogue familiar (at least as long as it doesn't leave our barrier in search of
Plus this is dangerously close to how this mess with Mami started in the first place, Us taking one of her 'friends' from her... I wouldn't be surprised if Candeloro just went utterly berserk if she realises that we're doing it again.
[X] Have Sayaka and Tira get out of sight. You don't want Candeloro forcing them back into her cottage the second she notices they left it.
Sounds like the best way to avoid an immediate conflict with Cande' and still get our
Well it could be that she is invisible to normals outside her barrier, but given the way Ol'Wally rolls I suspect anybody who can see her isn't far enough away from her to not have a terminal encounter with the queen of witches.
I don't know, when you think about it most of our problems seem to have been indirectly caused by *not* eating everyone/thing we meet...
I can't help but think that "if all you have is a hammer, then everything looks like a nail" is somewhat of a defining trait for witches. Especially mentally.
One thing I would love to see is people's reactions to magically-generated dossiers. The idea of a (seemingly) independent description of someone is really interesting to me. "The universe thinks that you're an immature tomboy." Seems like a great conversation-starter...
- Location
- Somewhere up the tree
I have my own idea
In the end, everything candeloro does is for one simple reason
She doesn't want to be left alone. Doesn't want to be abandoned
I'm thinking that they can leave Mami's barrier. They just have to take her with them. Or at least invite her to come with
It should be enough go get the point across that they arent abandoning her. Don't want to abandon her
In the end, everything candeloro does is for one simple reason
She doesn't want to be left alone. Doesn't want to be abandoned
I'm thinking that they can leave Mami's barrier. They just have to take her with them. Or at least invite her to come with
It should be enough go get the point across that they arent abandoning her. Don't want to abandon her
Candeloro tagging along with Ashtaroth would be cute and all, but bear in mind Candeloro's following traits:
Gets to eat things with an actual mouth.
Can fit through doors.
Could be missed by a shotput from a blind ratel on a pogostick.
Can travel her own body-length in under a second.
Has a house.
Can eat actual food.
Actually wants the harem she is stuck with.
Has familiars that do what she asks.
Is not composed of kindling.
Can reach the soles of her feet with her ribbons.
Has feet.
Can convey emotion...
I am not sure that the story would survive so much jealousy.
Gets to eat things with an actual mouth.
Can fit through doors.
Could be missed by a shotput from a blind ratel on a pogostick.
Can travel her own body-length in under a second.
Has a house.
Can eat actual food.
Actually wants the harem she is stuck with.
Has familiars that do what she asks.
Is not composed of kindling.
Can reach the soles of her feet with her ribbons.
Has feet.
Can convey emotion...
I am not sure that the story would survive so much jealousy.
- Pronouns
- He
candeloro can at the most-be considered barely sapient Being what amount to a supporting character in a story non meta wise she has traits of a personality and a mentioned back story that it while Ash is a complete character with a above average chance to change not more or less stagnant like candeloro
1. The evidence does largely support your position, but I maintain that there exists space for Candeloro's personality to be expanded upon. It is easy to equate communication difficulties with mental simplicity, and I suspect that most witches have difficulty comprehending their own communication faculties, which would make correcting their efforts difficult.
2. Ashtaroth has her own problems. The occasional urge to eat people; losing all of her baseline human memories and identifiers; instinctual dislike for Shemesh; and her... well I recall some posts suggesting that she is failing to notice things that she really ought to... . Ashtatroth might not be entirely whole and may be unable to change that without external intervention, likewise Candeloro might gain in coherence by the grace of others.
Your assessment of Ashtaroth certainly seems accurate, but she has yet to make any successful strides in expanding her social presence beyond her barrier. That is likely just misfortune and Mami and Homura's peronsal issues, but it is possible that Ashtaroth is herself cursed to be confined to a world of her own, with no sustained influence beyond it.
If this does work I expect Mami to only talk in chirps, still miss most of her memories, and flail around at first because she now has arms instead of ribbons and has to walk instead of flying everywhere.
I mean if she successfully evolves into the Empress Witch, I guess she could get a weird crown-mask mix.If Ashy eats all the witches, she can get the Mephisto mask as a prize. Her way forward is clear.
If Mami just started to live on her own and tried to learn how to cook for herself, and then meets Tira...
Well, Tira did try to help her with baking cakes.
In the actual fairy tale, Hansel and Gretel either find some jewels inside of the witch house or got some pearls from birds. But I guess Candeloro would see those memories as a treasure.
The Familiar could leave Ashys' Barrier, it would just be a long way down.
lol.
Now I want even more, that Ashy uses Candeloros distraction to subsume a few Familiars and then reads the Novella entry in front of Sayaka and Tira.
Actually; have they read their own entries yet?
Nope, Candeloro doesn't have feet. She has legs made out of white cloth, which unravels as they narrow down. So Candeloro and Ashy can share the feeling of not having feet.
Hmm... I remember this author's note saying something about the anniversary before. Maybe that got edited... hold on. Search turned up something relevant from the last anniversary:
Did we ever see that animation? The only animation I remember seeing is the Dancetaroth gifs.
Flairina
Least Omnipotent Goddess
- Location
- The next infinity over
...but how would they stay on without ears?
I actually debated bringing that up specifically because I'm pretty sure Hansel and Gretel isn't exactly well known in Japan. Ultimately though I decided I wanted to make the comparison enough that it wasn't worth fussing about.
She's not usually a big eater, no. As for the specific cause... eh, you can probably extrapolate.
I know. It's easier to characterize Nagisa (and thus Charlotte) if I have a definitive backstory to go off of though, and having to come up with something else entirely when I actively liked the "canon" version of events (sad though they were) just seems counterproductive. Sorry!
I have! Cirrata would make a good witch, if she were so inclined to be.
Nah. I mentioned it earlier in the thread, I'm avoiding reading that so as to not accidentally steal ideas. Maybe when this fic is done... far, FAR in the future, most likely.
And since Mami actually did die, Sayaka's "zombie" pronouncement will finally have some actual ground to stand on!
I find it amusing that people are assuming Tira's hesitance with the food is because Mami used to be a terrible cook. PMMM is hardly the place for lethal chef jokes... that's more Magia Record's territory, what with Mitama "puts ketchup on her cheesecake" Yakumo and Konoha "I gave both myself and Hazuki food poisoning" Shizumi.
It's less "the universe", so much as... hmm, no, I suppose from a certain point of view that's not entirely incorrect, actually...
Ashtaroth finds out that unlike her, Candeloro can leave the barrier, and just up and dies on the spot.
This comment has just led me down a very interesting train of thought that I sadly cannot share right now, but which I CAN say may end up changing my plans concerning at least two major future events.
True, but familiars actually get to take their own mini barriers with them. As such, this would likely not be an issue for it, nor any other familiars for that matter.The Familiar could leave Ashys' Barrier, it would just be a long way down.
Sayaka saw hers when Ashtaroth was trying that battery of tests to extract her soul gem, but she can't read witch rune, and so didn't know what it said. Tira has not seen hers as of yet, beyond perhaps a glimpse or two just after she was taken out of Novella --- even if she noticed it though, it wasn't exactly her biggest question at the time.
It got discarded.
I was too overzealous, and ended up disliking the design of the witch in question more and more as time went on, to the point that I ended up having to rework it. I finished doing that much, but trying to animate it again when I would basically be starting completely from scratch seemed way too daunting (and depressing) to try at the time. In all honesty, the "offer" here is mostly just an excuse to maybe force myself to redo it (as this would technically be the same witch, if somewhat changed) --- I can't back out on it or just tell myself it's not that important if I put a promise in that regard in writing, and have definitive, tangible proof that people would actually care if I didn't bother. Frankly, if I manage to motivate myself to redo the animation without the extra incentive/guilt trip, it's probably happening regardless... but given that it's been like half a year since it was initially redone, I wouldn't count on it.(Hope that last AN doesn't come off as deceptive, given this context? I wasn't trying to be, but now that I'm putting this in writing, I realize it does kind of sound like I'm trying to make people pay me to do something I already did. Maybe I should just delete the AN and make it a mental promise? But that defeats the purpose of putting it in writing to begin with... argh. >.< )
EDIT: Didn't delete the AN entirely, but changed the target amount to $300, which at least feels a little less like I'm overselling myself.
EDIT 2: Annnnnd now it's just deleted. The idea wasn't meant with ill intentions, but now I've had time to think it over and put this all in words it just feels sort of scummy, and I need to figure out how to motivate myself without outside approval anyways (...though, that admittedly hasn't worked great with stuff like Stand-in thus far). Either way, just assume I'll be redoing that animation regardless.
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Brief description... affinities... special moves... I can't believe that it took me this long to realise that Novella is a pokedex! How annoyed will Ashtaroth be when she discovers that she can only have 6 magical girls out at once? Or that all of her pokemon only have one evolution? No, they are not already on their second evolution, they weren't pokemon at all prior to being magical girls, that is more like pokemon eggs. Speaking of which, Ashtaroth can't get her pokeballs out of her pokedex, which normally wouldn't be a problem given that she can still use them, but like this she can't trade, and Leila Ibuki has the sweetest little mareep, while Ashtaroth's Snorlax is going to be super-powerful, but once a third of Charlotte's barrier is gone, trading will look very tempting...
It occurs to me that magical girl weapons ought to be resistant to being subsumed, given that they are focused and hostile, but such seems likely to change if the weapons are damaged or discarded, which might be a way to gain pokedex entries on magical girls without capturing them?
Not just couldn't read them, but didn't think that there was anything to read. She might want to review that stance now that she knows otherwise.
Oh, right, Ashtaroth has that whole "world unto herself" thing going on. The extent of her being-turned-inside-out-ness when in close proximity to leaving her barrier might be exceptionally severe in comparison to most other witches.
hillo315
Intact but Tactless
- Location
- Somewhere. Somewhere else.
Eating people gives everyone bad first impressions and more reasons to fight, so Ashy can't easily make the situation any better by talking in that scenario. That's ultimately why her time in Mitakihara was an unstoppable roller coaster of suffering from beginning to end.
Chirping is for ribbon creatures without human bodies. Maybe she'll speak in garbled Italian.
Also, flailing is funnier than it has any right to be and I really shouldn't be giggling.
But they can't share the feeling of not having legs...
Gravity....but how would they stay on without ears?
Speaking of fairy tales, the Hirako encounter reminded me a bit of The Old Witch. (It's not particularly well-known, I understand. You can find it in this Grimm collection, page 596.)
Tira probably worked up an appetite fighting for her life, but didn't realize it until she got the chance to destress and stare at food. This is your brain on adrenaline.
Yep, the undead argument is totally valid in this case. Still better than the mad science that gave us Kazumi.
That's because Magia Record, by its very nature as a game, can tell us more about individual characters outside of the main story. Other media can tell us a lot about Mami whenever she is a major character, but the amount of backstory and daily life revealed to us is limited to what's relevant to the plot. In Magia Record, we get a lot more slice of life on top of the magical girl action and characterization.I find it amusing that people are assuming Tira's hesitance with the food is because Mami used to be a terrible cook. PMMM is hardly the place for lethal chef jokes... that's more Magia Record's territory, what with Mitama "puts ketchup on her cheesecake" Yakumo and Konoha "I gave both myself and Hazuki food poisoning" Shizumi.
"One name you might have for me is The World. Or you might call me The Universe. Or perhaps God. Or perhaps The Truth. I am all, and I am one. So, of course, this also means that I am you."