Ahhhh some of those are actually quite bad. I'm really not sure. Um weirdly enough I think I kind of like the vanilla ones.
[X] Carrier Battle Group Focus
[X] Battle Fleet Carrier
The voting for this is going to be a bit of a nightmare.
Sterbelicht - One Sacrifice At A Time Against The Galaxy (40K)
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[X] Carrier Battle Group Focus
[X] Battle Fleet Carrier
The voting for this is going to be a bit of a nightmare.
HC+ designs. Scorpio is a LC.
10ebbor10
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Oh, I missed that. Still have the same problem just a tier up.
A bunch of our essential low tech shit has no high tech replacement.
Anyway, Crusader seems straight up dysfunctional? It wants you to monofocus, spend all your DP on weaponry, but that just straight up doesn't work? If we're making a light cruiser, we'd have to spend 20 DP on weaponry, meaning we'd be mounting 5 super large lances, or 10 large lances, which seems very inadvisable.
It also clashes with our mandated 1 hangar per ship thing, so it'll always get hit by the penalty on all but the smallest ships.
And yeah, Skirmish seems terrible. It has 3 big penalties that apply to every ship, and 2 minor bonuses that are limited to one narrow weapon category.
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[X] There was an error in the wording...
-[x] Carrier Battle Group Focus
-[x] Carrier Battle Group Focus
It just means we have specialist HCs. We can keep making Leos, but now we can make a kick-ass artillery HC, as well as a killer mid-range brawler stuffed to the gills with plasma macros & fancy equipment.
If I remember right, this whole thing started because we need a new lance-based solution to the Flyssa's, preferably turreted to be able to hit them. So let's build an HC with something like this (making assumptions that the bonus is a -1 DP to lance stuff). This is a meme sketch, but just an idea.
[] [Heavy Cruiser] The Meme Lancer (28 DP)
-[] Length - 5.000 Meters (+0 DP)
-[] Width -800 Meters (+0 DP)
-[] Acceleration - 3 Gravities (+0 DP)
-[] Armor - Thin Bulwark Hull (+0 DP)
-[] Shields - Two Lattices (+0 DP)
-[] Weapons - Heavy Prow Lance (-3 DP), Turreted Super-Large Lance (-3 DP), Turreted Heavy Rad-Lance (-3 DP), Turreted Large Lances x2 (-4 DP), 2 Medium Lance Batteries (-2 DP)
-[] Equipment - Lense Cogitation Matrix Lattice (-3 DP), Pure Lenses (-1 DP), Elite Crews (-6 DP), Snapshot Pinpoint Targeting Solutions (-3 DP)
This thing could bullseye a mosquito in Michigan from Mars orbit with enough firepower to kill a light cruiser.
[X] There was an error in the wording...
-[x] Carrier Battle Group Focus
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Yeah... this is not what was intended. Penalty eats up most of the gain from weapons discount, huge design limit on the benefit, might lose discounts on the basic equipment we rely on. Mono weapon loadouts are not what specialist means, its ship role.
These doctrine changes look like they will mangle any incremental upgrades of our current ships, hard to tell without making ships from a updated list. Can we switch between Doctrines with a free action every time we want to design a ship or something? If not, this doesn't seem worth it just to get 1 slightly better Lance escort ship design we were thinking of. Switch Sagi-S Prow to Turret Lances, boom solved.
[X] The think-tanks of the Navy had not had their morning coffee, were a bit grumpy about the costs of some equipment and were hasty in wanting to change the highly successful Fleet Doctrine. No change to Expansion Fleet Carrier Focus.
[X] Battle Fleet Carrier
Least bad.
10ebbor10
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Anyway, one more proposal.
Enduring Carrier Focus
Focus on making ships more surviveable, with discounts for escspe pods, lattice hulls, and all that. Penalties to weapons and equipment considered self destructive (ramming?), and reduced gains for making ships smaller than standard.
Also, tragedy. This very serious proposal did not get a official writeup.
Enduring Carrier Focus
Focus on making ships more surviveable, with discounts for escspe pods, lattice hulls, and all that. Penalties to weapons and equipment considered self destructive (ramming?), and reduced gains for making ships smaller than standard.
Also, tragedy. This very serious proposal did not get a official writeup.
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HeroCooky
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Uh, the intention there is that you choose one weapon type as your Main Focus, then add equipment accordingly, with the penalty only applying to the second and following Weapons. The discount applies to all First Weapon DP cost combined, as written. (It also doesn't cares about the the hangar tax, because it, like all others, removes that need. Must have not written that out.)
Sure, as written.
10ebbor10
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Oh, so we don't lose the cost decrease if we install more than one weapon type?
HeroCooky
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No, the cost decrease stays for the first, and the penalties apply for the second, third, ect.
2x Medium Bomber Hangars/1x Medium Fighter Hangar/1x Medium Mixed Hangar/Anti-Voidcraft Defenses
The current libra armament is 4x1 for the hangars + 2 for the Anti-Voidcraft Defenses
Crusader - Weapons gain X (Base Cost) × .50 (Rounded Up) DP Cost Increase per Type of Weapon installed. Reduces mono-weapon type loadout costs by 50%. Can install one weapons one Weight Class higher than normal by paying the unchanged DP cost. Removes all Equipment DP cost increases, but adds a 3 DP Flat Tax (applied once) if any equipment is added. Remove Armor penalty for Carriers.
would become 4(base hangar costs) x 0.5 *2(2 weapon types(hangars + Anti-Voidcraf)* 0.5(hangars are the main weapon type + 2( Anti-Voidcraft) * x 0.5 *2(2 weapon types(hangars + Anti-Voidcraf) = 4
And for our HC if we give it Anti-Voidcraft Defenses
-Weapons - 1x Medium Boarding Hangar/3x Heavy Rotary Macrocannon Turrets/Anti-Voidcraft Defenses (Total: 36 Boarding Craft) = 15
would become 12(base cannon costs) x 0.5 *3(3 weapon types(hangars + Anti-Voidcraft+ cannons)* 0.5(cannons are the main weapon type(9) + 2( Anti-Voidcraft) * x 0.5 *3(3 weapon types)(3)+ 1 (Hangar) * x 0.5 *3(3 weapon types)(2) = 15
Added later if a HC no longer needs a hangar it becomes:
would become 12(base cannon costs) x 0.5 *2(3 weapon types(Anti-Voidcraft+ cannons)* 0.5(cannons are the main weapon type)(6) + 2( Anti-Voidcraft) * x 0.5 *2(2 weapon types)(2) = 8
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10ebbor10
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Ah.
What is a weapon type? Are all lances the same type, and all hangers, or is a fighter hangar different from a bomber one?
HeroCooky
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Please note that I changed that one to: All DP of First Weapon Type reduced by 50%, with penalties only applying to Weapon Type 2 and onward.
Lance, Missile, Cannon/Projectile, Artillery, Melee.
10ebbor10
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So, do strikecraft change according to their armament, with boarders being melee, bombers missile and figters projectile, or?
[X] There was an error in the wording...
-[X] Battle Fleet Carrier Focus
[X] There was an error in the wording...
-[X] Crusader Carrier Focus
Also, I noticed that in all of these, the bonus for exploration equipment wasn't removed when I was under the understanding that we were going to sacrifice that for a penalty
-[X] Battle Fleet Carrier Focus
[X] There was an error in the wording...
-[X] Crusader Carrier Focus
But it would be foolish to change our entire doctrine purely to try countering someone else's wunderwaffen, and one we know very likely can't be reproduced now and already can get a counter in the Sagittarius.
Also, I noticed that in all of these, the bonus for exploration equipment wasn't removed when I was under the understanding that we were going to sacrifice that for a penalty
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HeroCooky
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Knew I've forgotten something! Strikecraft are another category.
Well, the mechanics aren't final. I've written them up in my 15min break, so some jank is in there until the vote is over and I can write the winner without that/people notify me of stuff like that.
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Um... I kinda feel as if I'd rather make an informed decision based on actually knowing what mechanical decisions we're going to be making?
What would Mines and Torpedoes be classified as? Their own thing? Or would Torpedoes be counted as Missiles?
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Honestly, wouldn't it be better that we get an update with all the mentioned doctrines and their mechanical details and then vote on the one we want then voting now when we are not 100% sure on their effects?
HeroCooky
Unverified Monstergirl
All Doctrines remove the Armor Penalty for Carriers.
All Doctrines remove the Scouting Bonuses.
Carrier Battle Group - Heavy Cruisers and heavier Classes get discount on High Tech Equipment+Weapons (Artillery, Lance, Plasma, Teleportarium), penalties on Low Tech Equipment+Weapons (Macro-Cannons, Rams, Armor). Lenght/Width is One Step Cheaper.
Crusader - The First Weapon Type has its DP Cost halved (calculated by adding all together and then halving it), with the Second/Third/etc Weapons Type gaining a X (Base Cost) × .50 (Rounded Up) DP Cost Increase. Can install the First Weapon Type one Weight Class higher than normal by paying the unchanged DP cost. Removes all Equipment DP cost increases, but adds a 1 DP Flat Tax (applied once) if any equipment is added.
Battle Fleet Carrier - Remove increased DP cost for Lances and High Tech Equipment (Teleportarium, etc.)
Skirmish - Reduces cost of all Prow Lances/Artillery and enhances their effects. Removes DP Penalties of Lances. Increases cost to increase the lenght/width of ships by 100% each step.
Barrage - Reduces the cost of all Missile Equipments by 1 DP. Increase Non-Missile (Hangars excluded) DP costs by 1. Sharply reduces the Weapon Cramming penalties/point of application for Missiles. All Missile Weapons are now able to be mounted on one Weight Class lower than stated.
Cutting Edge - Removes all penalties. Ship classes older than 150 years cannot be built or copied without new Equipment/Weapons being added.
Thule Trouble : Geneline pilots and Yeeni engineers now mandatory equipment - Effect: Increases interspecies porn production within the Glimmering Federation by 143%.
All Doctrines remove the Scouting Bonuses.
Carrier Battle Group - Heavy Cruisers and heavier Classes get discount on High Tech Equipment+Weapons (Artillery, Lance, Plasma, Teleportarium), penalties on Low Tech Equipment+Weapons (Macro-Cannons, Rams, Armor). Lenght/Width is One Step Cheaper.
Crusader - The First Weapon Type has its DP Cost halved (calculated by adding all together and then halving it), with the Second/Third/etc Weapons Type gaining a X (Base Cost) × .50 (Rounded Up) DP Cost Increase. Can install the First Weapon Type one Weight Class higher than normal by paying the unchanged DP cost. Removes all Equipment DP cost increases, but adds a 1 DP Flat Tax (applied once) if any equipment is added.
Battle Fleet Carrier - Remove increased DP cost for Lances and High Tech Equipment (Teleportarium, etc.)
Skirmish - Reduces cost of all Prow Lances/Artillery and enhances their effects. Removes DP Penalties of Lances. Increases cost to increase the lenght/width of ships by 100% each step.
Barrage - Reduces the cost of all Missile Equipments by 1 DP. Increase Non-Missile (Hangars excluded) DP costs by 1. Sharply reduces the Weapon Cramming penalties/point of application for Missiles. All Missile Weapons are now able to be mounted on one Weight Class lower than stated.
Cutting Edge - Removes all penalties. Ship classes older than 150 years cannot be built or copied without new Equipment/Weapons being added.
Thule Trouble : Geneline pilots and Yeeni engineers now mandatory equipment - Effect: Increases interspecies porn production within the Glimmering Federation by 143%.
Please give me time to write?
Mines as Projectiles and Torpedos as Missiles.
Hrm. I'll think about it.
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All Doctrines remove the Armor Penalty for Carriers.
All Doctrines remove the Scouting Bonuses.
Carrier Battle Group - Heavy Cruisers and heavier Classes get discount on High Tech Equipment+Weapons (Artillery, Lance, Plasma, Teleportarium), penalties on Low Tech Equipment+Weapons (Macro-Cannons, Rams, Armor). Lenght/Width is One Step Cheaper.
Crusader - The First Weapon Type has its DP Cost halved (calculated by adding all together and then halving it), with the Second/Third/etc Weapons Type gaining a X (Base Cost) × .50 (Rounded Up) DP Cost Increase. Can install the First Weapon Type one Weight Class higher than normal by paying the unchanged DP cost. Removes all Equipment DP cost increases, but adds a 1 DP Flat Tax (applied once) if any equipment is added.
Battle Fleet Carrier - Remove increased DP cost for Lances and High Tech Equipment (Teleportarium, etc.)
Skirmish - Reduces cost of all Prow Lances/Artillery and enhances their effects. Removes DP Penalties of Lances. Increases cost to increase the lenght/width of ships by 100% each step.
Barrage - Reduces the cost of all Missile Equipments by 1 DP. Increase Non-Missile (Hangars excluded) DP costs by 1. Sharply reduces the Weapon Cramming penalties/point of application for Missiles. All Missile Weapons are now able to be mounted on one Weight Class lower than stated.
Cutting Edge - Removes all penalties. Ship classes older than 150 years cannot be built or copied without new Equipment/Weapons being added.
Thule Trouble : Geneline pilots and Yeeni engineers now mandatory equipment - Effect: Increases interspecies porn production within the Glimmering Federation by 143%.
Please give me time to write?
Mines as Projectiles and Torpedos as Missiles.
Hrm. I'll think about it.
What Equipment is covered under the "Scouting Bonus"?