What should your focus for the rest of the Quest be?


  • Total voters
    280
Voting is open
Torpedo destroyers are a tried and true paradigm for WH40k space combat for a reason after all.

so the purpose of destroyers is to protect the larger ships in a fleet correct?

No, that's for Frigates. Destroyers in 40k tend to be attack ships with torpedoes or other heavy wea;pons meant to allow them to hit hard, but have low endurance.
 
Last edited:
Also, how do we get more Design Points in the future, or will it remain at 3, @HeroCooky ?
The simplest way is to get more Void Industry to build bigger ships. The more complicated way is to get either more Void or Heavy Industry to build bigger, better ships. The most complicated is to do both! :V
The bigger the ship, the more hurt it can take. Size does not restrict the placement of weapons. Shields stop damage from impacting the hull and regenerate after getting broken, and hull stops the enemy from just folding the ship in half like a folding chair once the shields go pop.
 
so the purpose of destroyers is to protect the larger ships in a fleet correct?

And to headhunt slow behemoths who get exposed, yes.

A Destroyer exists to bully weak shipping or to alpha strike much bigger things in ways that can't easily be reacted to (Like with stealth high speed pulsar lance fire like the Eldar like, or with massed torpedo spam from outside retaliation distance like the Imperium enjoys), which is why the doctrinal counter to Destroyers are Frigate gunships that can chase them down and beat them to death.
 
Last edited:
so the purpose of destroyers is to protect the larger ships in a fleet correct?
Depends on the fleets doctrine. At this point they're our capital ships equivalent but later on they can turn into cannon fodder for larger ships, perhaps point defense focused, or maybe they're used as a swarm of ships that increases the volume of fire the fleet they're in has at play.
 
The simplest way is to get more Void Industry to build bigger ships. The more complicated way is to get either more Void or Heavy Industry to build bigger, better ships. The most complicated is to do both! :V
The bigger the ship, the more hurt it can take. Size does not restrict the placement of weapons. Shields stop damage from impacting the hull and regenerate after getting broken, and hull stops the enemy from just folding the ship in half like a folding chair once the shields go pop.

Two questions!

One: Will we be able to unlock that Iconoclast Doctrine thing later as another add-on?
And
Two: How would my design stack up against the Cobra--the AK-47 of Voidships?

Actually, what would that even look like in this system?
 
Last edited:
Depends on the fleets doctrine. At this point they're our capital ships equivalent but later on they can turn into cannon fodder for larger ships, perhaps point defense focused, or maybe they're used as a swarm of ships that increases the volume of fire the fleet they're in has at play.
There's also orbital bombardement.

While you can't do the meme "win every war by throwing a rock from orbit" a Las equipped warship can dip into the upper atmo to strike a specific target.

Anyway, I kinda want to do a single demerit, just to see what they look like.
 
Last edited:
That's insanely glass-jawed holy hell. A light breeze could shatter it.

Sure, it's got a terrifying punch, but nothing is fast enough to just Never Get Hit Ever, not even Eldar ships, which even have their Holofields to further make hitting them a daunting task. This thing has zero room for error on the part of its crew, and I don't think we're at the place where we can afford that yet.
the thing is that Pure Lenses increase engagement ranges for Lances significantly above that of similarly-sized weapons systems. The entire point of the class is to hang out at or close to their maximum engagement range (which is beyond that of any non-pure lense lances) and make use of lasers firing at light speed to slowly wear down enemy fleets, and to pounce on any ship(s) that breaks off the enemy formation, i.e. from damage. It is entirely meant as a harassment tool to keep enemy fleets together and focused on a single strategic target at a time rather than splitting up and attacking multiple targets at once, and for wearing them down while they burn into the system, which is also why they have maximised deployment time. The Cleansing Light class would operate significantly further outside in the solar system than any other destroyer class to facilitate exactly that kind of operation.

edit: fwiw I don't even think it has a particularly big punch, it's only two lances, which as I understand it have a rather slow rate of fire, but the thing it's meant to do is deliver that damage consistently and from outside the enemy engagement range, with only minor accomodation in defence for those times when stray shots make it through despite that range differential.
 
Last edited:
[] Keeping on the Lance Train
-[] Starburst-class
-[] Length - 1.400 Meters
-[] Width - 300 Meters
-[] Acceleration - 8 Gravities (-2)
-[] Armor - Thin Single Hull (+1)
-[] Shields - Singular Emitter (+1)
-[] Weapons - (2x Turreted Light Lances) (-2)
-[] Equipment - (Gravimetric Engine Calculations, Pure Lenses) (-2)

So it can't stand up in a toe-to-toe fight, that's not really its purpose. It stays at range with its Lance turrets, and quickly moves away when it starts to get in the danger zone. I was inspired by the Imperium's Sword-class frigate, the workhorse escort. While obviously not able to tank as much as the Sword, this one is comparable in tonnage and outclasses it in speed.
 
[] Cleansing Light-Class Destroyer
-[] The Cleansing Light of the Star Child Conquers all Fear and Wards off all Interlopers-Class Lance Destroyers
-[] Length
- 1.300 Meters (+1)
-[] Width - 250 Meters (+1)
-[] Acceleration - 8 Gravities (-2)
-[] Armor - Thin Single Hull (+1)
-[] Shields - Singular Emitter (+1)
-[] Weapons - (2x Turreted Light Lances) (-2)
-[] Equipment - (Gravimetric Engine Calculations, Pure Lenses, On-Board Supply Generation) (-3)
[] Keeping on the Lance Train
-[] Starburst-class
-[] Length - 1.400 Meters
-[] Width - 300 Meters
-[] Acceleration - 8 Gravities (-2)
-[] Armor - Thin Single Hull (+1)
-[] Shields - Singular Emitter (+1)
-[] Weapons - (2x Turreted Light Lances) (-2)
-[] Equipment - (Gravimetric Engine Calculations, Pure Lenses) (-2)
so . . . we gonna kite?


[] Plan: Kite
-[] Lightyear Class Destroyer
-[] Length - 1.200/1.300/1.400/1.500/1.600 Meters (+2)
-[] Width - 200/250/300/350/400 Meters (+2)
-[] Acceleration - 6/6.5/7/7.5/8 Gravities (-2)
-[] Armor - Outer Coating/Thin Single Hull/Single Hull/Thick Single Hull/Thin Double Hull (+2)
-[] Shields - None/Singular Emitter/Two Emitters/Three Emitters/One Array (+2)
-[] Weapons - (4x Turreted Light Lances) (-4)
-[] Equipment - (2x Gravimetric Engine Calculations, 2x Pure Lenses, On-Board Supply Generation) (-5)

that should be enough lances to burn through 2 emitter shields
 
Last edited:
the thing is that Pure Lenses increase engagement ranges for Lances significantly above that of similarly-sized weapons systems. The entire point of the class is to hang out at or close to their maximum engagement range (which is beyond that of any non-pure lense lances) and make use of lasers firing at light speed to slowly wear down enemy fleets, and to pounce on any ship(s) that breaks off the enemy formation, i.e. from damage. It is entirely meant as a harassment tool to keep enemy fleets together and focused on a single strategic target at a time rather than splitting up and attacking multiple targets at once, and for wearing them down while they burn into the system, which is also why they have maximised deployment time. The Cleansing Light class would operate significantly further outside in the solar system than any other destroyer class to facilitate exactly that kind of operation.

edit: fwiw I don't even think it has a particularly big punch, it's only two lances, which as I understand it have a rather slow rate of fire, but the thing it's meant to do is deliver that damage consistently and from outside the enemy engagement range, with only minor accomodation in defence for those times when stray shots make it through despite that range differential.

Lances have good range, but it's not enough range to be completely immune to countermeasures, especially since Voidships can't turn 180 on a dime and immediately accelerate faster than something coming right at them.

Simply put, only Ordnance weapons can expect to kite, and a light Lance doesn't have the range to shoot and scoot while being immune to return fire, and a glass jaw is a very dangerous thing to have then. Even with the range bonus, that's not enough to take you out of effective range of a macrobattery, even Ork ones. Voidships turn very slowly after all--to the point of needing 10-15 minutes and hundreds of kilometers to complete a 90 degree turn--for a Destroyer. It's just not possible to outrange enemy weapons with a lance compliment, not at our mass and tech level.
 
Last edited:
I don't think we can double up on equipment like that? Or at least I assumed we couldn't.
so something like this instead?

[] Plan: Kite V2
-[] Lightyear Class Destroyer
-[] Length - 1.200/1.300/1.400/1.500/1.600 Meters (+2)
-[] Width - 200/250/300/350/400 Meters (+2)
-[] Acceleration - 6/6.5/7/7.5/8 Gravities (-2)
-[] Armor - Outer Coating/Thin Single Hull/Single Hull/Thick Single Hull/Thin Double Hull (+2)
-[] Shields - None/Singular Emitter/Two Emitters/Three Emitters/One Array (+2)
-[] Weapons - (6x Turreted Light Lances) (-6)
-[] Equipment - (Gravimetric Engine Calculations, Pure Lenses, On-Board Supply Generation) (-3)
 
so something like this instead?

[] Plan: Kite V2
-[] Lightyear Class Destroyer
-[] Length - 1.200/1.300/1.400/1.500/1.600 Meters (+2)
-[] Width - 200/250/300/350/400 Meters (+2)
-[] Acceleration - 6/6.5/7/7.5/8 Gravities (-2)
-[] Armor - Outer Coating/Thin Single Hull/Single Hull/Thick Single Hull/Thin Double Hull (+2)
-[] Shields - None/Singular Emitter/Two Emitters/Three Emitters/One Array (+2)
-[] Weapons - (6x Turreted Light Lances) (-6)
-[] Equipment - (Gravimetric Engine Calculations, Pure Lenses, On-Board Supply Generation) (-3)

Star-Child preserve me, this thing is useless. It'll die the instant a single macroweapon hits it, and nothing is fast enough to never get hit.

Can we please get a build that's actually well reasoned instead of one that assumes that the enemy has no agency and will just fall into whatever strategy we employ like lemmings? This game has shown itself to be quite hard.

Lance weapons Do Not Have The Range to shoot and scoot well enough to never take return fire. Their advantage is that they largely ignore armor at the cost of having too low a rate of fire to burn through shields effectively. That's it.
 
Last edited:
Lances have good range, but it's not enough range to be completely immune to countermeasures, especially since Voidships can't turn 180 on a dime and immediately accelerate faster than something coming right at them.

Simply put, only Ordnance weapons can expect to kite, and a light Lance doesn't have the range to shoot and scoot while being immune to return fire, and a glass jaw is a very dangerous thing to have then.
it's not meant to shoot and scoot. it's meant to match course and harrass at range. per word of OP the weapon systems all have comparable ranges, pure crystals add 50% on top of that, so I'd imagine that accuracy for macro cannons, missiles and torpedoes turns pretty shit at "maximum range + 50%" ranges, especially when combined with the Gravimetric Engine Calculations, which is why the class does still have defensive systems, just thin ones. Ideally the delta v between the ship and the enemy is exactly 0, because it's loitering at range.

so something like this instead?

[] Plan: Kite V2
-[] Lightyear Class Destroyer
-[] Length - 1.200/1.300/1.400/1.500/1.600 Meters (+2)
-[] Width - 200/250/300/350/400 Meters (+2)
-[] Acceleration - 6/6.5/7/7.5/8 Gravities (-2)
-[] Armor - Outer Coating/Thin Single Hull/Single Hull/Thick Single Hull/Thin Double Hull (+2)
-[] Shields - None/Singular Emitter/Two Emitters/Three Emitters/One Array (+2)
-[] Weapons - (6x Turreted Light Lances) (-6)
-[] Equipment - (Gravimetric Engine Calculations, Pure Lenses, On-Board Supply Generation) (-3)
Now we're cooking with gas! :V
 
it's not meant to shoot and scoot. it's meant to match course and harrass at range. per word of OP the weapon systems all have comparable ranges, pure crystals add 50% on top of that, so I'd imagine that accuracy for macro cannons, missiles and torpedoes turns pretty shit at "maximum range + 50%" ranges, especially when combined with the Gravimetric Engine Calculations, which is why the class does still have defensive systems, just thin ones. Ideally the delta v between the ship and the enemy is exactly 0, because it's loitering at range.


Now we're cooking with gas! :V

Macroweapons are inaccurate compared to the weight of fire they produce. It's still the Ideal Choice if you need to hose down a sector of space to figure out where--exactly--the Eldar ship actually is at this moment in time.

If a macroweapon shoots eight times and scores two hits. It has done its job adequately. Because it just stripped your shields and exposed you to subsequent attacks. If you get lucky and hit Four times in that same salvo, you might have just sunk an escort. That's the kind of logic we're playing with here.

In that same period, the Lance only fires once, but it will definitely do serious damage if Shields aren't there to stop it. But their base effective range is about the same. It's just that in the case of macroweapons, a slight improvement to accuracy from being up close makes them a lot more effective. Two hits is the Macroweapon Working To Specs. Four hits is potentially a crippling blow.
 
Last edited:
Also, the cool thing with the whatnot and the whosit is that because designing a ship is the same as building one, unless we get multiple Destroyers each turn with each action choice (which is possible with the double-speed, but I doubt it at this stage), we can just keep on experimenting for a while? Eventually the fleet will be big enough that we'll have to pick, but...
 
I mean, I'm biased to my design, But I am violently against meme builds like "Hey let's dumpstat everything but speed because lol nothing will hit us because extra range on our lances"

Nothing enters a void battle and gets out without ever taking a shot. Having the armor of a Leman Russ battle tank doesn't mean a thing when you're taking kiloton armor piercing rounds to the face--and no, you don't get to lol and go "But overpenetration means the force will be wasted".

There are lives at stake here, a lot of them. So I'm violently against any build that falls apart if the slightest thing goes wrong. And "As long as we have max acceleration and maneuverability and added range we'll never take a shot" is something that can go extremely wrong very quickly. Even the Eldar don't get to Never Get Shot At. We are not the Eldar.

Armor exists for a reason, shields exist for a reason. They're there to cover you if things don't go according to plan--and things never go according to plan.
 
Last edited:
it's not meant to shoot and scoot. it's meant to match course and harrass at range. per word of OP the weapon systems all have comparable ranges, pure crystals add 50% on top of that, so I'd imagine that accuracy for macro cannons, missiles and torpedoes turns pretty shit at "maximum range + 50%" ranges, especially when combined with the Gravimetric Engine Calculations, which is why the class does still have defensive systems, just thin ones. Ideally the delta v between the ship and the enemy is exactly 0, because it's loitering at range.
The big problem I fear is that there simply won't be enough time for meaningful attrition before the enemy taskforce reaches it's target.

Like, a ship like this is great if you can let it lose among the enemies supply lines, but in the most likely near term scenario (defense against immediate invasion) it lacks the ability to deter the enemy, and it's primary tactic relies on leaving the rest of the fleet to be obliterated.
 
Macroweapons are inaccurate compared to the weight of fire they produce. It's still the Ideal Choice if you need to hose down a sector of space to figure out where--exactly--the Eldar ship actually is at this moment in time.

If a macroweapon shoots eight times and scores two hits. It has done its job adequately. Because it just stripped your shields and exposed you to subsequent attacks. If you get lucky and hit Four times in that same salvo, you might have just sunk an escort. That's the kind of logic we're playing with here.

In that same period, the Lance only fires once, but it will definitely do serious damage if Shields aren't there to stop it.
There's zero indication that the accuracy of a macro weapon at 50% past it's effective range against a target with 8g acceleration and Gravimetric Engine Calculations is still 25% percent, and I doubt that the OP will model space battles at that level of detail anyway. The point of my design is long-range harassment with thin defences against those attacks that make it through. You can like that or dislike it, that's up to you, it's certainly a very specialised design, and in large part because we have our station to act as a strong point. It's certainly not meant as the only design for a destroyer we'll ever field, but I think in what it does do it's adequately statted.
 
[] Plan The Little Tank That Could
-[] Comet-class
-[] Length - 1.200 Meters (+2)
-[] Width - 200 Meters (+2)
-[] Acceleration - 7 Gravities
-[] Armor - Thick Single Hull (-1)
-[] Shields - One Array (-2)
-[] Weapons - Light Macro-Cannon Batteries (-1)
-[] Equipment - Armored Prow, Auto-Loaders, Internal Security Systems (-3)

Just a separate idea that popped into my head. Something small that can tank some damage while dishing out some. And if the enemy tries to board (which since we'll be facing more Orks soon, that if will turn into a when), they get met with some internal firepower.

I mean, I'm biased to my design, But I am violently against meme builds like "Hey let's dumpstat everything but speed because lol nothing will hit us because extra range on our lances"

Please don't discredit and put down our ship designs in such a way. Just because we're proposing designs you disagree with, doesn't mean we're just meming this whole thing. You're coming across as disingenuous at best, and down right insulting at worst.
 
The big problem I fear is that there simply won't be enough time for meaningful attrition before the enemy taskforce reaches it's target.
This will be a gamble in any case imo, the question of how much attrition these ships can inflict during, idk four days of the enemy burning hard (or however long it takes to get in-system), vs how much damage a similar tonnage in direct combat-statted ships will inflict during a few hours of head to head fighting is kind of impossible to accurately judge at the level of abstraction we're playing with here imo.
Going for the harassers would definitely tend to kinda leave the other planets out to dry until they develop enough ASB/void fortifications to act as hard points for our defence, because ultimately the harassers need a second element that meets the weakened enemy in a straight-up fight, and right now our station is the only element in the system that fits the bill.
 
There's zero indication that the accuracy of a macro weapon at 50% past it's effective range against a target with 8g acceleration and Gravimetric Engine Calculations is still 25% percent, and I doubt that the OP will model space battles at that level of detail anyway. The point of my design is long-range harassment with thin defences against those attacks that make it through. You can like that or dislike it, that's up to you, it's certainly a very specialised design, and in large part because we have our station to act as a strong point. It's certainly not meant as the only design for a destroyer we'll ever field, but I think in what it does do it's adequately statted.

Buddy, I'm a veteran of Rogue Trader and I've played Battlefleet Gothic in the past, I know how naval combat in 40K functions.

The mobility of a voidship only matters in its defense if you can permanently stay out of targeting range (Which is twice the battery's effective range, shooting past your effective range is just a modest penalty to your roll), because shots don't slow down in space. They keep going until they hit something or disperse too much to matter, the increased difficulty past effective range is because you need to lead your shots better.

But let's put that together for now.

Let's take a bog standard rando, untrained Imperial Civilian, skill 30, and have them fire a macroweapon at Long Range. They've still got a 20% chance of hitting you.

Now, you can nudge those odds, because Evasive Maneuvers are a thing (Just as teamwork, and Actually Being Trained For Your Job can on the part of the gunner)--and for That, your mobility does matter... But it comes at a cost--namely, that being that much harder to predict makes it that much harder for your gunnery crews to do the same. You can't exactly tell your gunnery crews to compensate for random maneuvers without them no longer being random (And thus, no different from standard operations), and being a degree off in naval combat means you just completely whiffed your barrage.

I don't even need to draw into Game Mechanics to understand that. Because that's basic physics. A direct fire weapon is not going to be just as easy to shoot when your firing surface is constantly moving in ways you have no power over.

You want to know what doesn't care about Evasive Maneuvers? Torpedoes--which once fired will continue to move and track their target until they run out of fuel or are destroyed. Nova Cannons which just need to get In The Same Country as the target. Strike Craft which operate entirely independently once launched.

Ordnance, in other words. Indirect Fire in simpler terms.

If you want to do dodgy, skirmish builds that count on never taking a hit, you load ordnance, fire from outside effective range, and proceed to book it, doing Evasive Maneuvers until you're ready to do another attack run. You don't do a direct, precision laser boat that will explode if it ever slows down to line up a barrage.
 
I am now confused on if my plan is good or bad

on one hand getting oneshot and being countered by shields is bad

the other hand is where out of range of most attacks?

so wait whats the goal of your destroyer here, cause it was first to defend a capital ship (or in this case our stationary HQ)

then someone said that their to hunt down isolated ships and be aggressive attackers

can someone tell me what we're looking for our destroyers?
 
I am now confused on if my plan is good or bad

on one hand getting oneshot and being countered by shields is bad

the other hand is where out of range of most attacks?

so wait whats the goal of your destroyer here, cause it was first to defend a capital ship (or in this case our stationary HQ)

then someone said that their to hunt down isolated ships and be aggressive attackers

can someone tell me what we're looking for our destroyers?

My explanation just now covers it, but TL;DR

"If you can shoot them, they can shoot you" Is a fundamental rule of how naval combat works. If you want to Never Get Hit, you need to have your attack move independently of your own vessel, which eliminates all direct fire options from consideration.

Even the Eldar can't get away with Never Getting Hit, they just cheat in such a way that they can only get hit if they're sloppy or outnumbered. Which is why the meme is that Eldar are either unbeatable gods of the stars or glass jawed space elves, based on how good their player is at micro.
 
Buddy, I'm a veteran of Rogue Trader and I've played Battlefleet Gothic in the past, I know how naval combat in 40K functions.
okay, and if we're running on Rogue Trader and Battlefleet Gothic rules then I apparently missed a lot of skill checks here so far.
Clearly you've worked out the ideal design for this, and anything else is just meme builds, thank you for the input.
 
Voting is open
Back
Top