I would say to do the Dutchy Ship wreck and Battle studies.
Sterbelicht - One Sacrifice At A Time Against The Galaxy (40K)
- Thread starter HeroCooky
- Start date
- Mature Sci-Fi
So we've currently got 31 SAG's and 17 Warpacks (ignoring that the 11th Warpack is missing which I assume is a typo). Given that veteran military forces are apparently 5 times more effective then normal troops, do we have any ideas for how to avoid churning through 20 units each decade of the Voxx uprising and losing that incredibly precious expertise?
It would be ludicrously useful if we could allocate enough units that they don't get churned through and instead gain experience possibly by pulling back after the attrition gets too.bad. I just have no idea what that would require.
It would be ludicrously useful if we could allocate enough units that they don't get churned through and instead gain experience possibly by pulling back after the attrition gets too.bad. I just have no idea what that would require.
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not any easy way to do that. Either go to town on Black Ash Clan or go swinging with another faction. Other then that only other way is to make More SAG's and cycle them out before they get destroyed in Combat. the only way for them to get experience would be to fight in war. Not unless we can get one node of it via training or war games. Given how effective they are I think that is the point, we don't have to pay in Actions or the like to replace any destroyed SAG's coming from the Planets but they lose all veterancy progress and start as green recruits again.
you learn by fighting essentially
I think we should do one or two more terraforming actions, then focus on other things. Unlike everything else the terraforming is now or never, and there are several more options that will give 30+ billion population accommodations. Also - populace on new planets is more productive than populace in other places (especially in the void). I'd push for 3x terraform actions next turn if possible to house another 100 billion, but I doubt anybody will seriously go for that.
We'll have probably about 60 units by that point between SAGs and knights, so ideally if we drop them all and provide support that'll be enough to avoid the worse of the churn. And one of the best ways to improve that would probably be better gear, not necessarily more units. It sounds like the
-[] Advanced Servo-Skull Militarization Initiative
Would especially be a great way to do that for the conditions of a hive world.
But if we did want more SAGs, the most effective actions to would probably be research actions:
-[] Logistical Infantry-Grade Weapons Development (0/3)
-[] Logicstical Infantry-Grade Armor Development (0/3)
The QM has said that those would increase the number of SAGs each planet supports, and with our research bonuses that's 4.3 total actions, which would probably get us another ~30ish SAGs and increase the number of SAGs produced by future worlds, instead of the 24 just spending 4 actions on SAGs would give.
Yet more reasons to get more research bonuses. They stack hard the longer you go. It's also a way to trade early actions for later actions, when you have more capability. A research action 20 turns ago got us less than it does now, so trading an action then for one now is actually better than it looks.
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- Location
- ?????????
[X] Plan: Buying More Time And Setting Goals, Maphara Version v2
I was busy today and it's frankly too late in the night but for the love of god get the melodies that actually upgrade existing songs. Unless the goal is to give the Choirs a Swiss Army knife of options
I was busy today and it's frankly too late in the night but for the love of god get the melodies that actually upgrade existing songs. Unless the goal is to give the Choirs a Swiss Army knife of options
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
I would make the argument that increasing the overall effectiveness of our SAGs could serve as a substitute for increasing numbers.
-[] Novel Infantry-Grade Weapons and Armor Development
(Gain: Infantry Weapons and Armor Upgrades.)
-[] Experimental Infantry-Grade Weapons and Armor Development
(Gain: New Infantry Weapons and Armors.)
We've already gone down the Quality route as opposed to the Quantity one, no reason to stop now. Plus the minimum number of SAGs we were told are needed each turn to take Voxx is based off the current equipment our SAGs are using. I'm sure upgrading their equipment would mean a few number might be needed, though Cooky can correct me if I'm wrong.
Maybe we will have enough slack to rotate off troops.
I hope the War-Packs auto-action will complete by the time we need it so thats 33? War-Packs. I thought war would start by 800.M42 with only 21 War-Packs, the extra will make things a lot easier without having to build. Also the QM said somewhere War-Packs are more effective than SAGs in the enclosed areas of the Hives and Agriworlds, I think it was
It would be so nice if Production Line research also brought that action cost down, although it'll still be hard to find the actions on top of everything else.
Between these and drones we might upgrade into basically Tau infantry, QM was asked what these will give us:
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I'm 100% in favor of researching better weapons, armor, and servo-skulls for our infantry - Voxx will be a gigantic hell of urban warfare for decades, like tens of thousands of Battles Of Stalingrad, and the Duchy can bury us in numbers if we don't beat them with quality. Plus, better-equipped troops are more likely to survive long enough to achieve veterancy.
But also need a couple research for void warfare, because, again, we aren't going to match the Duchy in sheer numbers.
(For those keeping track at home, we can, as things currently stand, get 3 research for 2 actions, and 7 research for 5 actions.)
But also need a couple research for void warfare, because, again, we aren't going to match the Duchy in sheer numbers.
(For those keeping track at home, we can, as things currently stand, get 3 research for 2 actions, and 7 research for 5 actions.)
HeroCooky
Unverified Monstergirl
In order;
You get a notification and vote when the Revolution happen without you triggering it. If you then decide not to send troops ASAP, the momentum will be lost. If you trigger the Revolution and not send troops alongside that trigger, the momentum will be lost.
A planet is also fuck-off huge, with far more space around it. You can drop down troops even if you do not have void superiority. Just means that taking the entire world will be more difficult.
They are doing very well, and have increased your military's morale by 7%.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
We should, probably, try to figure out what these reserves are at some point, if we can spare the action.
Because I had, kinda, assumed that what we were seeing now was the reserves :
But if they still have reserves they can pull away without endangering their other fronts, we are in a considerably worse position than I'd assumed.
(To be frank, I'd even assumed that enemy deployement in the area would decline slightly over the next few decades as the border settled down into a cold war with no sign of agression, while other fronts are doing active warfare).
I think boosting the navigator song is the way to go with our free Melodies, we have song already so only need 4 more and fire is one of those 4.
Once that is done we can boost our astropath song by getting one more melody.
[X] Plan: Buying More Time And Setting Goals, Maphara Version v2 Fire edition
-[X] [General] Propaganda For The Foreign Masses (1/3) x2
--[X] [Free] Direct them to continue the Voxx Primus Infiltration, but with a new concentration on infiltrating every sector of society, including the military, with secrecy and care as the watchword.
--[X] Ideally the Revolution should be ready in a hundred to a hundred-twenty years, so try to act to delay things if need be or speed them up, etc, etc.
-[X] [General] Terraform (Planet) Maphara - (Target Biosphere: Tepui and Cenote) - (Maximum Population: 101 Billion) - (Terraformation Time: ~200 Years)
-[X] Free Melody: Fire
Once that is done we can boost our astropath song by getting one more melody.
[X] Plan: Buying More Time And Setting Goals, Maphara Version v2 Fire edition
-[X] [General] Propaganda For The Foreign Masses (1/3) x2
--[X] [Free] Direct them to continue the Voxx Primus Infiltration, but with a new concentration on infiltrating every sector of society, including the military, with secrecy and care as the watchword.
--[X] Ideally the Revolution should be ready in a hundred to a hundred-twenty years, so try to act to delay things if need be or speed them up, etc, etc.
-[X] [General] Terraform (Planet) Maphara - (Target Biosphere: Tepui and Cenote) - (Maximum Population: 101 Billion) - (Terraformation Time: ~200 Years)
-[X] Free Melody: Fire
Five actions would also be enough to double our SAG's which might give us a useful reserve if we want to go that route instead. We could also go for a mix of the two.
- Location
- Belgium
We can create like 6x SAGs with one action, so if we ever do declare an emergency then we'll ramp up quickly, maybe have most of them be augmetic legions? The description mentions they're best for dangerous deployments, which a Hive definitely qualifies as.
Especially if we combine that with the Novel & Experimental Infantry-Grade Weapons and Armor Development research.
On another note, I think it's worth it to reach out to our neighbors and see if they're willing to help us with the whole Voxx Primus thing, we're doing everything by ourselves right now when we might not need to.
Especially if we combine that with the Novel & Experimental Infantry-Grade Weapons and Armor Development research.
On another note, I think it's worth it to reach out to our neighbors and see if they're willing to help us with the whole Voxx Primus thing, we're doing everything by ourselves right now when we might not need to.
I'm all for alliances, but I assume our neighbors have bigger concerns than us and the war of conquest we're preparing the stage for.
HeroCooky
Unverified Monstergirl
You can see on the map that that isn't the case. They have a total of 1~2 SBGs they could potentially move into a counterattack if you attacked right now.
But they will do a slow drawdown of forces in the coming decades.
We might be able to get them to take some of the Voxx refugees if we don't have enough room for them all though.
Personally, I think we should ally with the Black Ash Clan against the Croaf Hegemony. They're not ideal due to the misandry and general perpetual genocide against mutants and likely Xenos if they encounter them, but they are a good sight better than what we know of the Croafs who just seem to be assholes.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I wonder if slow absorbing them would let us use the techniques from our matriarchal heresy to clean things up? Once we can pivot the propaganda group away from Voxx Prime (after they've been finished)
I'm salivating at the idea of getting true Knights for the Order of the Blazing Sun and not just leaving them with Armigers. I guess it doesn't matter how we get the designs out of the Black Ash Clan, whether it's via diplomacy or conquest. Though personally I think conquest of the Black Ash Clan would be easier.
Hm. Assuming that "Plan: Buying More Time And Setting Goals, Maphara Version v2" wins (a fairly safe assumption with its huge lead), I'm trying to figure out what the future action economy looks like. Looking at the three aspects of the Voxx takeover - space, ground, and civilian aftermath.
Keep in mind this is all starting from next turn, and I'm treating the auto-tickers as having auto-ticked.
4 actions to build one more SBG OR finish the Lamenters fleet (autocompletes in 6 turns, completes in 4 turns if we spend 1 action) OR 2 research to upgrade our fleet (might require a 3rd action to refit our SBGs) OR 1 action to come up with void combat Song.
Probably enough:
Two of the above, OR 7 actions to build two SBGs.
Assured victory:
7 actions to build two SBGs + finish Lamenters fleet + 2 research actions to upgrade the fleet + Song = 10 actions if we have 6 turns for the Lamenters to autocomplete, 11 actions otherwise.
Bare minimum, we'll be slaughtered otherwise:
2 research to improve our infantry/ortillery OR 2 actions to create Augmetic SAGs/War-Packs (our War-Packs finish auto-replenishing 7 turns after the coming turn) OR 1 action to make a ground combat Song
Probably enough:
Two of the above, OR 4 research to improve our infanty/ortillery, OR 5 actions to create Augmetic SAGs/War-Packs
Assured victory:
4 research (3 actions) + Song + 4 actions to create troops = 9 actions.
Bare minimum, it'll make the Holodmor and Irish Potato Famine look harmless in comparison otherwise:
3 actions to build the evacuation fleet.
Not enough, but it'll avert absolute grimdark:
4 actions to build the evacuation fleet, 6 actions to build habitat stations
Might actually be enough:
6 actions to build the evacuation fleet, 12 actions to build habitat stations
Obviously, a lot of this is purely speculative on my part! I'm speculating that, between the Nutri-Paste and our research on Hive-City agriculture, Voxx will be able to feed a significant chunk of its population once we take it over. I'm speculating about how our space forces will be able to fight against the Duchy's space forces. But I like to think my speculations are reasonable.
With that in mind (and keeping in mind that we get extra research on our 2nd and 5th research actions)...
Bare minimum:
We take a single action for space combat, 1 action for ground combat, 3 actions to build up the evacuation fleet. 5 actions total... and, frankly, if we're stupid enough to do that, we deserve whatever we get.
Probably enough:
2 actions for space combat, 3 actions for ground combat, 10 actions for aftermath - about 5 turns' worth of actions, one or two of which can take place after the revolution starts. I honestly expect this would still be very, very painful, both on our military and the civilians, mind.
Recommended:
10-11 actions for space combat, 9 actions for ground combat, 18 actions for aftermath - basically need 7 turns for the military buildup and 6 turns for the civilian preparations (but it's worth noting that the civilian preparations in this case massively boost our Void Industry). Assuming World War Voxx takes three decades, that means we can theoretically pull this off if the revolution takes 10 turns to kick off. If we manage that, I strongly suspect we'll be be able to crush the Duchy on both land and space, and prevent a mass die-off once we're in control of the planet - while also being only 4 actions away from Void Industries XV.
Of course, we don't have full control of when the revolution will start, other factions also get a say, my speculative calculous could be way off, and there's a whole bunch of possible actions I haven't even addressed here (such as holy sigils, saints, raising Military Industry, The Hallowed Armada...).
Keep in mind this is all starting from next turn, and I'm treating the auto-tickers as having auto-ticked.
Space:
Bare minimum, we'll be slaughtered otherwise:4 actions to build one more SBG OR finish the Lamenters fleet (autocompletes in 6 turns, completes in 4 turns if we spend 1 action) OR 2 research to upgrade our fleet (might require a 3rd action to refit our SBGs) OR 1 action to come up with void combat Song.
Probably enough:
Two of the above, OR 7 actions to build two SBGs.
Assured victory:
7 actions to build two SBGs + finish Lamenters fleet + 2 research actions to upgrade the fleet + Song = 10 actions if we have 6 turns for the Lamenters to autocomplete, 11 actions otherwise.
Ground:
(Obviously, this only comes into play if we don't get slaughtered in space first.)Bare minimum, we'll be slaughtered otherwise:
2 research to improve our infantry/ortillery OR 2 actions to create Augmetic SAGs/War-Packs (our War-Packs finish auto-replenishing 7 turns after the coming turn) OR 1 action to make a ground combat Song
Probably enough:
Two of the above, OR 4 research to improve our infanty/ortillery, OR 5 actions to create Augmetic SAGs/War-Packs
Assured victory:
4 research (3 actions) + Song + 4 actions to create troops = 9 actions.
Aftermath:
(Obviously, this only comes into play if we win in space and on the ground, and we'll likely have more turns to complete it until the ground fighting finishes.)Bare minimum, it'll make the Holodmor and Irish Potato Famine look harmless in comparison otherwise:
3 actions to build the evacuation fleet.
Not enough, but it'll avert absolute grimdark:
4 actions to build the evacuation fleet, 6 actions to build habitat stations
Might actually be enough:
6 actions to build the evacuation fleet, 12 actions to build habitat stations
Obviously, a lot of this is purely speculative on my part! I'm speculating that, between the Nutri-Paste and our research on Hive-City agriculture, Voxx will be able to feed a significant chunk of its population once we take it over. I'm speculating about how our space forces will be able to fight against the Duchy's space forces. But I like to think my speculations are reasonable.
With that in mind (and keeping in mind that we get extra research on our 2nd and 5th research actions)...
Bare minimum:
We take a single action for space combat, 1 action for ground combat, 3 actions to build up the evacuation fleet. 5 actions total... and, frankly, if we're stupid enough to do that, we deserve whatever we get.
Probably enough:
2 actions for space combat, 3 actions for ground combat, 10 actions for aftermath - about 5 turns' worth of actions, one or two of which can take place after the revolution starts. I honestly expect this would still be very, very painful, both on our military and the civilians, mind.
Recommended:
10-11 actions for space combat, 9 actions for ground combat, 18 actions for aftermath - basically need 7 turns for the military buildup and 6 turns for the civilian preparations (but it's worth noting that the civilian preparations in this case massively boost our Void Industry). Assuming World War Voxx takes three decades, that means we can theoretically pull this off if the revolution takes 10 turns to kick off. If we manage that, I strongly suspect we'll be be able to crush the Duchy on both land and space, and prevent a mass die-off once we're in control of the planet - while also being only 4 actions away from Void Industries XV.
Of course, we don't have full control of when the revolution will start, other factions also get a say, my speculative calculous could be way off, and there's a whole bunch of possible actions I haven't even addressed here (such as holy sigils, saints, raising Military Industry, The Hallowed Armada...).
[X] Plan: Buying More Time And Setting Goals, Evac Version v2
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
They are wrong.
5 SBG's is also not assured victory, it's the minimum needed for "100% succesfull first strike, prepare to recieve counterattack".
Edit : Actually, I just realized that the bolded bit is a huge, huge problem.
We need the food from Voxx Secundus, which means merely ensuring that Voxx Primus space is contested is nowhere near good enough. We need to punch past Voxx Primus, and secure Secundus as well.
So, that's an extra SBG equivalent force we need to defeat.
Which would make the total we need, idk, 7?
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Conquest might be a tad easier since they are just like 5 worlds IIRC and they only have like 40 ships. Plus I have doubts they would be able to counterattack us due to the Irridanus Subsector laying dormant for hundreds of years despite literally being right next to them so they likely don't have Navigators of their own.
But if we do attack, we'll likely have to deal with the Black Cat Company as well, and they have a battleship. I think for us it would be best if we tried diplomacy so we could try allying and combine our forces to kick the shit out of the Croaf Hegemony who from what little we've gathered are the kind of assholes we're gonna fight based on principle alone.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Infiltrating the Agri-Worlds should be enough. I think 5 SBGs plus the Lamenters on board will be enough... and after the fight we can trigger the emergency and get another SBG each turn until we can lock it all down. But yeah, 5 SBGs is not really optional.