Sterbelicht - One Sacrifice At A Time Against The Galaxy (40K)

What should your focus for the rest of the Quest be?

  • Mercy (Diplomacy and Expansion)

    Votes: 211 74.8%

  • Ruthlessness (Kick the Duchy in the Balls)

    Votes: 66 23.4%

  • Thule (Yeeni Handholding and Piscarian Cuddling)

    Votes: 108 38.3%
  • Total voters
    282
Voting is open
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The Laurent said:
They do not know about us! Heck, that conspiracy would be among the elites and paper pushers, not the Under-Hive!

...and to note, that conspiracy probably does exist, but they're not ours and so them being found out won't necessarily find us out?
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Does make me wonder what they want though?

Are they just corrupt, and ddin't want to spend money. Are they smart, and did they realize that those above them would immediatly start a "destructive" war if they found out other humans existed? Do they have some other goal?

Either way, we also have to take into account that they don't need to invade us to put a timer in action. If their own contradictions and internal conspiracies boil over into a civil war, we might have to invade or accept that the Hive becomes a tomb.
 
Decimus said:
Probably can't say the same for the people on Voxx Primus, but that's a moral quandary, not a practical one.
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That's absurd. Why do we even bother investing an action every three turns, then, if they essentially don't matter to us?

10ebbor10 said:
Does make me wonder what they want though?

Are they just corrupt, and ddin't want to spend money. Are they smart, and did they realize that those above them would immediatly start a "destructive" war if they found out other humans existed? Do they have some other goal?
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I think it's the Alpha Legion again.
 
Pempelune said:
They will look for it. Our gang is too big to go unnoticed, HeroCooky has already said this.
It boggles the mind that the threat is so clear yet people still want to procrastinate. Even if we're not sure that they'll start operations against the traitors in their Hives soon, we should still be preparing because there's a good chance they will.
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I'm not claiming I want to procrastinate. I'm disagreeing with the sense of total desperate urgency you have.

We have time. We should in fact be spending all of that time preparing. I do regret the Boarders now, tbh, as opposed to choosing, say, the Servo-Skulls: I thought they'd be useful for defense because I was worried about their coming attack, and because I didn't know that the Lamenters already had their own version because they got tired of waiting for us.

But I deny that I've been pushing actions I think are besides the point of the Voxx Primus mission.
 
More importantly, there are Inquisitorial Factions that will look at us and Join us.

The Inquisition getting called in is not necessarily the End of the Line for our ambitions in Voxx Primus, just the end of the Beginning.
 
Alectai said:
That's not going to happen until the threat expands beyond her fiefdom, I think.
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I want to double check. Are we taking the 3 agriworlds right next door or are we just taking the hiveworld? My worry is that once they attack, we don't have the forces to counter attack and give them time to build up their defenses.
 
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The Laurent said:
I'm not claiming I want to procrastinate. I'm disagreeing with the sense of total desperate urgency you have.

We have time. We should in fact be spending all of that time preparing. I do regret the Boarders now, tbh, as opposed to choosing, say, the Servo-Skulls: I thought they'd be useful for defense because I was worried about their coming attack, and because I didn't know that the Lamenters already had their own version because they got tired of waiting for us.

But I deny that I've been pushing actions I think are besides the point of the Voxx Primus mission.
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Look I'm not like, blaming you. But I'm seeing a lot of people propose actions that only make sense if we assume that we won't be at war anytime soon. This is a recipe for disaster. No, we cannot waste actions on fundamental research like Psy-tech. No, we cannot waste actions on declaring people Saints. No, we cannot waste actions on the Propaganda Bureau, that's something that should have been done 5 turns ago now it's too late.
 
Pempelune said:
Look I'm not like, blaming you. But I'm seeing a lot of people propose actions that only make sense if we assume that we won't be at war anytime soon. This is a recipe for disaster. No, we cannot waste actions on fundamental research like Psy-tech. No, we cannot waste actions on declaring people Saints. No, we cannot waste actions on the Propaganda Bureau, that's something that should have been done 5 turns ago now it's too late.
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So, you argue we'll be in total war within 2 or three turns, yes or no.
 
Pempelune said:
Something like that, yes. And if we're caught with our pants down, we will have to see Voxx Primus and all our people inside die a very painful death while we have to stand and watch.
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Okay, and we've argued otherwise, and you disagree because you're of the impression the Imperium is a surgical instrument that can sort through 700 billion people and correctly identify the sub-single percentile that are our allies within two or three turns, accurately identifying the needle in the haystack and crushing them before we can respond unless we act first.

Is that about right?
 
Alectai said:
Okay, and we've argued otherwise, and you disagree because you're of the impression the Imperium is a surgical instrument that can sort through 700 billion people and correctly identify the sub-single percentile that are our allies within two or three turns, accurately identifying the needle in the haystack and crushing them before we can respond unless we act first.

Is that about right?
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I dont know why you believe a 500 million people strong gang is hard to find. It's actually a pretty big target.

Like, there's saying the Imperium is incompetent, and then there's hoping that they might not notice the very well armed gang with 0.5 billion members.
And all that when the QM has already said that 300 million members is when our gang become impossible to hide.
 
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@Alectai , how's the Civ Ship design stuff? I know we wanted... maybe two Heavy Freighters, one for Supplies and one for Transportation, maybe a Light Freighter that's more general, and probably also the SS Rustbucket if that's allowed to count?
 
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Pempelune said:
I dont know why you believe a 500 million people strong gang is hard to find. It's actually a pretty big target.
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It's also less than 1 percent of the population of the Hive World.

It's only marginally better than 0.2% of the Hive World.

The sum of Chaos Cults there likely exceeds our own faction in volume.

You are arguing that the Imperium is efficient enough to accurately identify specifically where our faction is, when it would fall into the middle of the tiny "Other" category, within 10-20 years, when there are 700 Billion people living here.

And that they can do this without just brutishly picking a fight with the entire Underhive, which outnumbers anything they've got by an order of magnitude to the point where it's a war that'll break them as surely as it would break us to just jump in there without smoothing things over.

That's what you're arguing here. That they can find a needle in a fucking haystack the size of Mount Everest with contemptuous ease.
 
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The Laurent said:
@Alectai , how's the Civ Ship design stuff? I know we wanted... maybe two Heavy Freighters, one for Supplies and one for Transportation, maybe a Light Freighter that's more general, and probably also the SS Rustbucket if that's allowed to count?
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Oh yeah, basically, a Heavy Freighter rigged for transport can move 300 milion per trip, while one rigged for transport can supply 3 billion people for a month per trip (Or 12 billion for a week or so)
 
Alectai said:
And that they can do this without just brutishly picking a fight with the entire Underhive, which outnumbers anything they've got by an order of magnitude.
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They've already done that once, or have you forgot? It's how we got this big in the first place.
And again. We are NOT hard to find. We have the biggest gang in the Underhives, you can't hide that.
Also I laugh at your idea that they'll have to 'look' for us in the Underhives. They are perfectly willing to just shoot everything that moves down there, we know because they already done that once. We only survived because we fled into the Wastes between Hives, we cannot do that again. You have a short memory.
 
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The Laurent said:
...then I assume that the Light Freighter has all of the incredibly vital 5-DP Equipment, then?
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Yeah, Light Freighter has...

Medical Deployment/Guiding Hands/Large Mobile Civilian Manufactory/Large Emergency Relief Cargo Holds.

Pempelune said:
They've already done that once, or have you forgot? It's how we got this big in the first place.
And again. We are NOT hard to find. We have the biggest gang in the Underhives, you can't hide that.
Also I laugh at your idea that they'll have to 'look' for us in the Underhives. They are perfectly willing to just shoot everything that moves down there, we know because they already done that once. We only survived because we fled into the Wastes between Hives, we cannot do that again. You have a short memory.
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And they didn't even put a Dent in the place's population, I would point out, nor did they get any sign that we were there, despite expanding dramatically. Which clearly suggests that they spent a lot of manpower and didn't even exceed the standard attrition rate of Living In The Underhive.

They killed millions and it didn't exceed the usual murder rate going on down there. That's how fucked it is.
 
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Alectai said:
It's also less than 1 percent of the population of the Hive World.

It's only marginally better than 0.2% of the Hive World.

The sum of Chaos Cults there likely exceeds our own faction in volume.

You are arguing that the Imperium is efficient enough to accurately identify specifically where our faction is, when it would fall into the middle of the tiny "Other" category, within 10-20 years, when there are 700 Billion people living here.

And that they can do this without just brutishly picking a fight with the entire Underhive, which outnumbers anything they've got by an order of magnitude to the point where it's a war that'll break them as surely as it would break us to just jump in there without smoothing things over.

That's what you're arguing here. That they can find a needle in a fucking haystack the size of Mount Everest with contemptuous ease.
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While I doubt they'd invade in 2-3 turns as is suggested, they don't actually need to find our infiltration for that.

Just knowing we exist over yonder, and having a single peak that shows our decidedly non-human standard ships (and the Kil'drabi ones) should be enough for them to call for an invasion. Sure, cooler heads might prevail, but they don't seem to have that type in charge right now.
 
Alectai said:
And they didn't even put a Dent in the place's population, I would point out, nor did they get any sign that we were there. Which clearly suggests that they spent a lot of manpower and didn't even exceed the standard attrition rate of Living In The Underhive.
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There was 1 billion deaths. For a little psyker purge. They do that again, we have no gang anymore.
 
[] [Light Freighter] []-Class Mobile Relief and Conversion Freighter
-[] Sketch (Purely Optional)
-[] Length - 7.000
-[] Width - 1.400
-[] Acceleration - 0.8 (+1 DP)
-[] Armor - Single Hull
-[] Shields - Two Emitters/
-[] Weapons -N/A
-[] Equipment - Propaganda System (6 DP)/Medical Deployment (5 DP)/Guiding Hands (5 DP)/Large Mobile Civilian Manufactory (5 DP)/Chapels to the Five (3 DP)/Internal Security Systems (1 DP)/Spacious Crew Quarters (1 DP)

Here's my own idea. As you can see, this should not be put anywhere near active, ongoing space combat, obviously.
 
I think we've got a little bit of time. We seem to have landed on the overall defensive strategy because of how big the Van Zandt duchy is. It seems like our near-term aspirations are to take three systems, one of which is Voxx, and establish a new defensive line at Echish or Voxx Secundus.

To do that, we have time. They might poke us and even send some strong attacks, but it's not like they will mobilize for full war the instant we're discovered.

The 3-action propaganda/infiltration office seems like a fabulous thing for us, that will quickly save us actions and be invaluable in the long term.

I also think that the temple ship is going to be a pretty dramatic force multiplier on any front, including both fleet combat and ground combat.We've gotten werewolf to a point where we can complete it any turn we need it.

So I'd almost prefer to just knock out the propaganda office or do the civilian/temple ship design, agricultural research and one propaganda action.

Our military seems fine for the immediate future.
 
Pempelune said:
There was 1 billion deaths. For a little psyker purge. They do that again, we have no gang anymore.
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Only if they target our exact position.

That was still not even 1% of the entire population of the Hive.

You are arguing they'll find Exactly where we are, and target us Specifically, bypassing all of the other hazards there despite us keeping a low profile, or that they'll "Just kill everyone in the underhive"

The last time they did a purge, They didn't even exceed the usual attrition rate if they hadn't done anything, because it's still a hive World with 700 Billion People living there, even after a purge of that size. Which suggests that nothing they did actually got above the background level of people dying whether they acted or not

You're suggesting they have arbitrarily high surveillance of the Underhive, or that the fact we have X numbers means we are definitely going to be caught and them slaughtered in a turn or two without a chance of success. Rather than, you know, the reality that "This place is a borderline Blame Megastructure level labyrinth and you could pour the entire Imperial Guard of Van Zandt into this place and they'd be lost, presumed eaten by the natives"

For once, the insanity that is a Hive World is working in our favor. The fact they exist and somehow remain stable in defiance of all sanity is already the universe bending in favor of the Imperium. If they actually get to ignore the downsides of this too, I'm going to have a fit.
 
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Neablis said:
I also think that the temple ship is going to be a pretty dramatic force multiplier on any front, including both fleet combat and ground combat.We've gotten werewolf to a point where we can complete it any turn we need it.
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Read the action. There's nothing there that indicate that it's a military ship at all.

HeroCooky said:
[] [Faith] The Hallowed Armada
With the major Heresies of the Body of the Faith now mended as far as possible without veering into the territory of burning the fields to prevent a suspected blight, eyes, and minds turn from the halls of debate to the yards of construction. There, ships are built and maintained that have secured the safety and prosperity of the Glimmering Federation for generations, yet the faithful clamor for more to do their part where guns need to lay silent or where the death of a world must be signed. Both are equal in their burning need for those willing to pray and aid and those willing to consign billions to prevent fates worse than mere death.
(Gain: Sub-Turn to create, and get access to the template of, a unique Temple Ship.)
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This is a Faith ship. A civilian ship. It's there to bring peace, and to bring Sacraments, and possibly to fight Chaos cults or converts planets. How could it be a force multiplier?
 
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