Black Cat Company could become another too.
Sterbelicht - One Sacrifice At A Time Against The Galaxy (40K)
- Thread starter HeroCooky
- Start date
- Mature Sci-Fi
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Nice, thanks!
Is there anything on my previous list that shouldn't be in there?
Because I see Song and go "Work Songs, that's normal, right?" Machinery because that's a lot of the work involved with advanced machines, and Progress because we're going forward. Maybe Hope in there too for a better future?
The point is, Songcrafting is kind of hard without input, and I appreciate that you're giving advice to me on this!
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Oh. This makes collective a lot less attractive. Hmm.
And it appears there are two other ways to get infrastructure discounts than taking the ISC bonus. Specifically, songs and starting new ISCs for 2 actions.
And then there's cross-species. Which is great now and will only get better. Not just the shipbuilding but also:
I could still vote for both ISCs and cross-pollination, but cross-pollination helps solve our ship building problems and buttresses us from shocks.
- Location
- Belgium
Do the traits have any effect beyond the mechanics stated in their descriptions?
For example, the description of Collective Action seems like it would also counter some of the corruption or graft that comes with having large corporations if that makes sense.
Maybe I'm just seeing things.
For example, the description of Collective Action seems like it would also counter some of the corruption or graft that comes with having large corporations if that makes sense.
Maybe I'm just seeing things.
HeroCooky
Unverified Monstergirl
Nope.
Machinery.
Every trait has fluff and lore implications and effects. They aren't all stated because I fully expect people to have at least a grasp on the surface level stuff that will change within the Federation when you pick one trait over the other.
- Location
- ?????????
I am not too sure about Collective action. The upgrade to it is really good and the current one is fine but getting the first one is harder to justify than I initially thought...which is something I guess. At least our Civ infra is rock solid if we take it. And All X probably also has the same mechanics as Slumbering Titan...probably
- Location
- Poland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
C'mon. Cross-polination means we are even more fanatically xenophile.
Also, any new race we will encounter will have an additional argument to join us.
Also, any new race we will encounter will have an additional argument to join us.
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Well, new information has certainly shifted my opinion.
I'm leaning heavily towards Trader Armadas now, with the Cross-Polination bonus as a close second which could overtake.
Knowing that we can potentially get new ISCs by absorbing the Mashan Families is interesting, and another factor to consider. If we get new ISCs and that new Active Slot, and then integrate the Families, then we might get overlap in functions, which might be 'wasteful'.
Hey @HeroCooky, if we did take Trade Armadas and make, say, an ISC that reduces the cost of improving Heavy Industry, then integrated the Families and (presumably) also got their ISCs, and they also had an ISC that reduced the cost of improving Heavy Industry, would those two Corps remain separate, fuse of boost the effect, or are you just gonna guarantee that the Manshan won't have any Corps that duplicate ones we have?
I'm leaning heavily towards Trader Armadas now, with the Cross-Polination bonus as a close second which could overtake.
Knowing that we can potentially get new ISCs by absorbing the Mashan Families is interesting, and another factor to consider. If we get new ISCs and that new Active Slot, and then integrate the Families, then we might get overlap in functions, which might be 'wasteful'.
Hey @HeroCooky, if we did take Trade Armadas and make, say, an ISC that reduces the cost of improving Heavy Industry, then integrated the Families and (presumably) also got their ISCs, and they also had an ISC that reduced the cost of improving Heavy Industry, would those two Corps remain separate, fuse of boost the effect, or are you just gonna guarantee that the Manshan won't have any Corps that duplicate ones we have?
While true, Slumbering Titan won't help us get to all X which will take us 40~ish actions of development, not to mention what happens after all X which either will cost us 3 actions for each level or worse 4. My friend we are planing three crusades against imperial remnants (not to mention fucking Vox), we really need it.
Also, a question @HeroCooky: does "Slowly raises the level of Development to the Highest Rating Achieved" apply to each individual type of dev or the whole dev?
As in if we lose one level in 2 different types does it take Y turn to fix or 2Y turns to fix
HeroCooky
Unverified Monstergirl
The latter. As long as you manage to get one that would match the Ashan ISC.
3 Turns per 1 Level of Dev, per category.
So QM said a bit back that Iconoclast type of civs like ours have a really powerful "when shit hits the fan" type of mechanics, where we can mobilize and forget about weekends and vacations and luxuries and deal with the shit and the fan and the guy who threw the shit on the fan in one go.
It seems to me that Collective action is a bit of surfacing that trait during good weather, but it may also amplify our trump card?
It seems to me that Collective action is a bit of surfacing that trait during good weather, but it may also amplify our trump card?
- Location
- ?????????
Man other polities would be malding so hard at the thought. Imagine being dogmatic as fuck and fighting Iconoclasts not realizing that the person on the other side is fighting to get to use his vacation days. I'd be tweaking out tbh.
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Collective action would have been better if we'd gotten it later, but as-is, with 2 of our 6 categories being 'locked' at the same level as our Sleeping Giant ability (Tier 5) I'd rather grab more ISCs so that we can make quicker progress bolstering our categories to a higher level. It's been ages since we got Sleeping Giant and boosting development categories started costing 2 actions, and how many times have we invested in them since? Once, just now, because we had some cool synergies that would let us get a boatload of levels all at once.
Sure, keeping things topped up would be nice since it costs more to restore levels now, but you know what else would help with that? ISCs which reduce the cost of gaining Dev abilities, which will remain useful long after Level 1 of Collective Action would be an afterthought at best.
Sure, if we got the second level then the 'highest' threshold would update, but I'm not a huge fan of picking an option that practically requires us to choose it again in the future to remain competitive.
Trade Armada or Cross-Species, IMO, are both much better choices than Collective Action for actually moving forward, because they provide new benefits to us as opposed to just letting us hold something that we already have a stable floor for in Sleeping Titan. Collective Action is, essentially, a minor update to the status of Sleeping Titan with our current stat distribution, which IMO isn't worth the opportunity cost of 3 new ISCs or Species-specific bonus abilities for each Kin and Protectorate we already have or will gain in the future.
Sure, keeping things topped up would be nice since it costs more to restore levels now, but you know what else would help with that? ISCs which reduce the cost of gaining Dev abilities, which will remain useful long after Level 1 of Collective Action would be an afterthought at best.
Sure, if we got the second level then the 'highest' threshold would update, but I'm not a huge fan of picking an option that practically requires us to choose it again in the future to remain competitive.
Trade Armada or Cross-Species, IMO, are both much better choices than Collective Action for actually moving forward, because they provide new benefits to us as opposed to just letting us hold something that we already have a stable floor for in Sleeping Titan. Collective Action is, essentially, a minor update to the status of Sleeping Titan with our current stat distribution, which IMO isn't worth the opportunity cost of 3 new ISCs or Species-specific bonus abilities for each Kin and Protectorate we already have or will gain in the future.
Imagine, the perspective of our not evil neighbours when we go full Aweaken giant on some assholes
- Location
- ?????????
Getting two cost reduction ISCs and one passive ISCs(research passive, building passive etc) would be good.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I don't any Civilian Advancement is going to have majorly negative effects, but:
[] Civilian Warp Armadas
Prosperity attracts prosperity. In the wake of extended peace and willful investment into the civilian sectors of the Glimmering Federation, new companies rise from the ashes of the wastelands that the Imperium left behind whenever it came to gather its bounty of materials, souls, and flesh. With the advancement of industry focused on raising the people, wealth begins to flow, and people start looking for places to spend that money. The void is a natural place for thrifty investors and those seeking exotic luxuries and experiences, with stations and intra-system ships slowly popping up everywhere to ply their trade. And as the systems grow ever more industrialized and filled with infrastructure, so do the interstellar warp fleets belonging to the Glimmerlings, their manifold ships filled with all goods and services.
(You can now designate a [Civilian Transport Fleet] to move your forces, totaling 30% of your controlled systems. Doing so will negatively impact your economy. The systems of the Candle Keepers grow stronger through closer cultural and economic ties. Three more ISCs are unlocked, and you can now patronage two ISCs at the same time. Can be Upgraded/Chosen Again.)
This feels like it might be more likely to have minor negative effects WRT corporations doing corporation stuff than some of the other options, vibes-wise.
[] Civilian Warp Armadas
Prosperity attracts prosperity. In the wake of extended peace and willful investment into the civilian sectors of the Glimmering Federation, new companies rise from the ashes of the wastelands that the Imperium left behind whenever it came to gather its bounty of materials, souls, and flesh. With the advancement of industry focused on raising the people, wealth begins to flow, and people start looking for places to spend that money. The void is a natural place for thrifty investors and those seeking exotic luxuries and experiences, with stations and intra-system ships slowly popping up everywhere to ply their trade. And as the systems grow ever more industrialized and filled with infrastructure, so do the interstellar warp fleets belonging to the Glimmerlings, their manifold ships filled with all goods and services.
(You can now designate a [Civilian Transport Fleet] to move your forces, totaling 30% of your controlled systems. Doing so will negatively impact your economy. The systems of the Candle Keepers grow stronger through closer cultural and economic ties. Three more ISCs are unlocked, and you can now patronage two ISCs at the same time. Can be Upgraded/Chosen Again.)
This feels like it might be more likely to have minor negative effects WRT corporations doing corporation stuff than some of the other options, vibes-wise.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Honestly, the main reason I want to avoid civilian warp armadas, is because of what the ISC choices turned out to be last time.
It's a write-in option with a huge range of possibility, we can literally pick anything ,and last time we picked some of the most generic bonusses possible; and now the argument seems to be to do that again.
It's a write-in option with a huge range of possibility, we can literally pick anything ,and last time we picked some of the most generic bonusses possible; and now the argument seems to be to do that again.
- Location
- United States of America, Michigan
Personally fluff wise civilian Warp fleets sounds just amazing of making our systems even more connected to each other which I imagine will have great effects moving forward given how united we already are. It also gives us a nuke option of letting us flood a place with troops which I imagine will be super helpful for the hive world
Personally, while I find a better civilian fleet interesting, the sheer amount of actions saved by Collective Action is too good to pass, especially with 3 crusade targets.
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's only an action save if we don't upgrade any of our development levels between now and when we conquer any new planets. Collective Action locks our 'passively restore to X number' at the highest ranks our levels have been at up until now, of which 2 are rank 5, which is the same as Sleeping Giant. If we increase any of our development categories above those numbers (of which, none are more than 1 or 2 ranks above where we're at now) the we can still lose ranks and have them not restore passively.
Then write more 'interesting' options then? We picked options that will provide a benefit, and I'd argue the Anomaly Generation Science ISC isn't exactly 'generic
The more I think about it the more I'm in favor of warp armadas - especially if we can pick up more ISCs from the Ashan. It's a flexible way to improve the efficiency of our actions and gives us a ton of room to optimize - just look at what happened over the last few turns with getting Civ XII, colonizing 6 new systems and our new research options. It's great
Cross-pollination is also amazing, and in my opinion leans into Iconoclast the hardest. Xenophile, good vibes, lots of reasons to integrate more Xenos. The general vibes behind it are lovely and will make our society more resilient and productive.
Meanwhile, what's the effect of collective action? Well, it incentivizes us to not do any more infrastructure development until we've done the next couple of wars and integrated everybody nearby. That's a decision we can make if we want to. It also doesn't benefit most of the infastructure types because of the overlap with Slumbering Titan.
Cross-pollination is also amazing, and in my opinion leans into Iconoclast the hardest. Xenophile, good vibes, lots of reasons to integrate more Xenos. The general vibes behind it are lovely and will make our society more resilient and productive.
Meanwhile, what's the effect of collective action? Well, it incentivizes us to not do any more infrastructure development until we've done the next couple of wars and integrated everybody nearby. That's a decision we can make if we want to. It also doesn't benefit most of the infastructure types because of the overlap with Slumbering Titan.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I really like cross pollination, it should help with aliens that are familiar with the imperium to see we're legit. Also it's basically bonus traits for managing to absorb people, which would synergize well if we grab the propaganda growth options
