Scrambled Eggs. A Sonic X Sega All Star Villains CK2 Quest

[UltimateBlackAce]

We're not going to be able to defeat the Empire without our second actions. I am pretty sure there won't be third actions too. Most CK2 quests do not use them because they become too much work for the QMs.

I also doubt the Empire has a second action. They didn't have territory in the Green Hills at the beginning of the game. They spent the first turn conquering a foothold in the Green Hills. Other than that, it would thematic sense for the second actions to all be attached to Sonic factions in the first place. The second actions are specifically locked behind factions in the Green Hills. There are three open factions and two secret factions left.

It is is practically impossible to have a long-term alliance with GUN and the Restoration as you propose. They would object to Eggman conquering any territory. There is nothing to be gained for Eggman keeping them around, it would just be inviting them to strike us when we are vulnerable. Trying to fight other Kings without second actions, around the entire world, is just going to go horrifically wrong.

Belle is not going to take the whole roster with her. She certainly won't take the most important heroes. Personally, I'm not to fussed if Belle, or other good-aligned heroes, quit once we win the Green Hills. That's the training wheels coming off. We're Eggman.

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I was under the impression that each faction Eggman kicks out of or destroys in Green Hill grants him an action, with each being in a different category. So, I was under no belief that beating Zavok would give a third Power action, for instance. Beating Zavok is Eggman's second action unlocked in a new category, while Max would have been the third category's second action. If Max doesn't give an action because he was originally an outsider, he doesn't give an action. My understanding was that he's like Eggman, a King level character stuck in Prince tier because he's been cut off from the resources that let him properly leverage everything (wider Empire and the supply lines) plus being technologically behind for now.
If you are correct, I would still see making sure that he loses that foothold a bigger priority than the other Green Hill Factions: giving a King more space to build up is nothing but bad news, he would need to get that foothold again before he can channel the power of a full King faction, and he should have other fronts that are more pressing.

I'm framing the alliance as a chance to subvert them and until the Black Arms are gone. Not once have I said that I expect it to be a permanent arrangement. And, as I said before when we spoke about this, it's all about where we place priorities and opportunity cost.

Belle leaving with the roster was a joke. That's why I put it after my more detailed analysis and posed it as an 'alternatively.'

More seriously, I also think that the "we're Eggman" might be too rigid thinking. I don't think that we're going to get everyone on our side, we are a villain, even if it should be possible to make him more benevolent. But there has been a lot of narrative emphasis on his developing bonds with her and Sage, in addition to there being achievements around developing a family unit. I don't think that Eggman is supposed to be static or only develop as a more effective conqueror. That's not just me projecting, that's also us having had an early interlude about it early on. And it's also, ultimately, something that is up to us.

 

[Alatie]

Personally I'm with Black Ace on this.

Zeti and then Empire, though we might hunt down a hidden faction as well.

Restoration/Gun are not currently a problem so let's worry about them later.


We get our stuff back first and then make sure the Empire doesn't send their wave-motion canon or personal sized nukes at us.

 

[Fleightfire]

Look we probably can't keep Belle forever, sooner or later she'll leave with Canaan and goes who knows where.

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The Qms confirmed at high enough loyalty she won't just go up and just leave like that. She probably be like Nephtys and try to limit or guide our Eggman from causing too much harm.

So unless we start taking the path of Archie Eggman then the most we can expect from her would be a drop in loyalty every now and then if we go too far.

 

[MrHobbit]

I was under the impression that each faction Eggman kicks out of or destroys in Green Hill grants him an action, with each being in a different category. So, I was under no belief that beating Zavok would give a third Power action, for instance. If Max doesn't give an action because he was originally an outsider, he doesn't give an action. My understanding was that he's like Eggman, a King level character stuck in Prince tier because he's been cut off from the resources that let him properly leverage everything (wider Empire and the supply lines) plus being technologically behind for now.

If you are correct, I would still see making sure that he loses that foothold a bigger priority than the other Green Hill Factions: giving a King more space to build up is nothing but bad news, he would need to get that foothold again before he can channel the power of a full King faction, and he should have other fronts that are more pressing.

I'm framing the alliance as a chance to subvert them and until the Black Arms are gone. Not once have I said that I expect it to be a permanent arrangement. And, as I said before when we spoke about this, priorities and opportunity cost.

Belle leaving with the roster was a joke. That's why I put it after my more detailed analysis and posed it as an 'alternatively.'

More seriously, I also think that the "we're Eggman" might be too rigid thinking. I don't think that we're going to get everyone on our side, we are a villain, even if it should be possible to make him more benevolent. But there has been a lot of narrative emphasis on his developing bonds with her and Sage, in addition to there being achievements around developing a family unit. I don't think that Eggman is supposed to be static or only develop as a more effective conqueror. That's not just me projecting, that's also us having had an early interlude about it early on. And it's also, ultimately, something that is up to us.

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There are currently seven known and unknown factions operating in the Green Hills. We were told that Knuckles doesn't have an action. That leaves us at five actions and six factions. That is Selvaria's Imperial contingent, GUN, the Restoration, Zavok, and two secret factions. It only makes sense for the non-Sonic faction, which didn't have territory in the Green Hills at first, to not hold one of the second actions. I was not saying you thought Zavok would give a third power action. But that it looked like you thought that defeating Max would give a third action.

We were told that Max is one of the harder Kings to remove from the board. Max didn't bring the entire East Europan Empire with him, but he still brought substantial territory. It would have a lot of experience waging war and it would be a hell of a lot more difficult to launch a decapitation strike on him with all of his territory.

Selvaria is a prince. She commands, or commanded given the coma, the Empire's contingent in the Green Hills. Kicking that out would be good. Trying to defeat Max while still allied with GUN or the Restoration just is not happening. They would object to the mass conquering and expansion of the Eggman Empire's resources.

There is only so much that can change when the majority of the people that Eggman values are coded to help him conquer the world.

Personally I'm with Black Ace on this.

Zeti and then Empire, though we might hunt down a hidden faction as well.

Restoration/Gun are not currently a problem so let's worry about them later.

We get our stuff back first and then make sure the Empire doesn't send their wave-motion canon or personal sized nukes at us.

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Taking out one of the most difficult Kings to defeat without having second actions in most of our categories? I can't deny that doesn't fit the ego of Eggman.

We're a long way's off from defeating the Empire to the point that they can't send wave-motion canons to hurt us. Even if we push back Selvaria, then we'd be fighting Max. GUN and the Restoration will have problems with us conquering the East Europan Empire.

 

[UltimateBlackAce]

Selvaria is a prince. She commands, or commanded given the coma, the Empire's contingent in the Green Hills. Kicking that out would be good.

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I think we can at least agree on that much. When we say defeating the Empire, we very much mean in Green Hills. They have territory outside, not our problem while we focus on our current sphere.

 

[Alatie]

Snip.

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Fair enough we aren't anywhere near ready to dealing with Max with everything he has, but for now we don't need too.

We just need to deal with a handful of pressing things before focusing on the rest.

We do not want Super Selvaria to be a thing after all.

Though really? I don't think we've seen any evidence that the Empire wouldn't give us an action.

 

[Fleightfire]

The qms did say defeating other factions in Green Hill to unlock actions, whether the Empire technically counts is just a risk we have to take.

I have to comment that no, Action Economy is one if not the biggest thingsthat can be a game changer. Having more actio s means you can focus on more projects at the same time. It's such a game changer that's why we lock them behind defeating the other factions on green hills, as you defeat them and grow in power, the second action is a representastion of that.

It opens much versatility with what you can do that thinking is not as big as you think surprises me a bit.

And yes, before anyone ask, You will only obtain the second action when you defeat the respective faction.

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Also I'm all for using Rogue to sneak into the Empire and stealing the Chaos Emerald, I honestly rather risk she take it for herself than let them have it.

 

[Underdog Emiya]

The qms did say defeating other factions in Green Hill to unlock actions, whether the Empire technically counts is just a risk we have to take.



Also I'm all for using Rogue to sneak into the Empire and stealing the Chaos Emerald, I honestly rather risk she take it for herself than let them have it.

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Hm...if things go well in capturing Whisper next turn, here's how I see our course of action:

Darcsen Road -> Further infiltrate the Palace -> Emerald Heist?

 

[MrHobbit]

I think we can at least agree on that much. When we say defeating the Empire, we very much mean in Green Hills. They have territory outside, not our problem while we focus on our current sphere.

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Bordering the Empire proper would make it our problem though.

Fair enough we aren't anywhere near ready to dealing with Max with everything he has, but for now we don't need too.

We just need to deal with a handful of pressing things before focusing on the rest.

We do not want Super Selvaria to be a thing after all.

Though really? I don't think we've seen any evidence that the Empire wouldn't give us an action.

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The qms did say defeating other factions in Green Hill to unlock actions, whether the Empire technically counts is just a risk we have to take.

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Super Selvaria seems to have been rather delayed thanks to the coma. It's not unlikely that if we attack soon, we won't face her at all. Instead she will be brought back to the Empire proper and they'll get working on something.

Did you read the first paragraph? If you're going to comment about it, address it. What part of my reasoning do you disagree with? I'm open to having flaws in my reasoning pointed out, but you haven't done that. It could be that one of the secret factions doesn't have it, but currently my suspicions are that one of them holds Trickery action. The Restoration probably has the Heart action, GUN the Logistics action. Zavok and the second secret faction would then hold the Brains and Mystic action. I suspect it is respectively in that case, but it could be reversed.

There are currently seven known and unknown factions operating in the Green Hills. We were told that Knuckles doesn't have an action. That leaves us at five actions and six factions. That is Selvaria's Imperial contingent, GUN, the Restoration, Zavok, and two secret factions. It only makes sense for the non-Sonic faction, which didn't have territory in the Green Hills at first, to not hold one of the second actions.

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Hm...if things go well in capturing Whisper next turn, here's how I see our course of action:

Darcsen Road -> Further infiltrate the Palace -> Emerald Heist?

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Or, we search for the Conch so we can more easily deal with the Zeti. Then, we investigate the criminal underworld so we can take steps to unlocking more actions.

And no. I don't want to give Rouge the chaos emerald. I want it. It's ours by right of being rightfully stolen by us first!

 

[Alatie]

Super Selvaria seems to have been rather delayed thanks to the coma. It's not unlikely that if we attack soon, we won't face her at all. Instead she will be brought back to the Empire proper and they'll get working on something.

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...Pretty sure that would be bad?

We do want to take her down, partially out of pride, partially to get her out of Max's hands, and partially so she doesn't go Super.

If she went back then she'd likely be setting up for Super or Final...both of those would be bad.

Did you read the first paragraph? If you're going to comment about it, address it. What part of my reasoning do you disagree with? I'm open to having flaws in my reasoning pointed out, but you haven't done that. It could be that one of the secret factions doesn't have it, but currently my suspicions are that one of them holds Trickery action. The Restoration probably has the Heart action, GUN the Logistics action. Zavok and the second secret faction would then hold the Brains and Mystic action. I suspect it is respectively in that case, but it could be reversed

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...No I can't refute that.

Still... @Kingster @Boohoo the 3rd is Hobbit right that the Empire wouldn't give us an action?

 

[UltimateBlackAce]

Bordering the Empire proper would make it our problem though.

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I still consider removing a King faction's foothold more urgent than dealing with a Prince tier faction. As a King, Max has other, more important fronts he needs to deal with than a sub-territory.

If you want to talk about inevitability with GUN and the Restoration not being viable long term allies, the Empire's inevitably going to be a problem. I want to give them minimal time to scavenge Egg Tech from here, when technology is also their major area of weakness. Giving them time to recover in Green Hill and the opportunity to expand their foothold gives the King faction greater ability to channel their superior force.

 

[MrHobbit]

...Pretty sure that would be bad?

We do want to take her down, partially out of pride, partially to get her out of Max's hands, and partially so she doesn't go Super.

If she went back then she'd likely be setting up for Super or Final...both of those would be bad.

...No I can't refute that.

Still... @Kingster @Boohoo the 3rd is Hobbit right that the Empire wouldn't give us an action?

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Yeah it would be irritating if we couldn't deal with Selvaria before she could be juiced up. But, personally, I dislike operating on out of character information like that too much. And I like a challenge.

The main flaw I can think of in my reasoning is that one of the secret factions could be a non-Sonic faction that also infiltrated the Green Hills after game start. It's not like we know about their identity. It's a secret after all. That and at the time of the question Eggman could have counted as the second hidden faction. Kind of. The results of defeating the Black Arms had been posted, so we weren't really a secret, but the interlude hadn't.

I still consider removing a King faction's foothold more urgent than dealing with a Prince tier faction. As a King, Max has other, more important fronts he needs to deal with than a sub-territory.

If you want to talk about inevitability with GUN and the Restoration not being viable long term allies, the Empire's inevitably going to be a problem. I want to give them minimal time to scavenge Egg Tech from here, when technology is also their major area of weakness. Giving them time to recover in Green Hill and the opportunity to expand their foothold gives the King faction greater ability to channel their superior force.

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I don't disagree. It just looks like you're phrasing it as if going from dealing with Selvaria to Max isn't much of a problem. We obviously need to get rid of the Empire's foothold, then eventually the Empire. Bordering the Empire directly is going to be an action sink, and badnik too because they'll invade us. It's not something to outright stop our plans against them over, but it's something to keep in mind.

 

[Kingster]

Still... @Kingster @Boohoo the 3rd is Hobbit right that the Empire wouldn't give us an action?

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Won't answer that, if you want us to confirm or deny, you will need to use a question/answer from an Omake reward.

We have given you all the info you need about how to unlock 2nd action in all categories that we will share , specifics like that do will need to come from omake rewards

I still consider removing a King faction's foothold more urgent than dealing with a Prince tier faction. As a King, Max has other, more important fronts he needs to deal with than a sub-territory.

If you want to talk about inevitability with GUN and the Restoration not being viable long term allies, the Empire's inevitably going to be a problem. I want to give them minimal time to scavenge Egg Tech from here, when technology is also their major area of weakness. Giving them time to recover in Green Hill and the opportunity to expand their foothold gives the King faction greater ability to channel their superior force.

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Yeah it would be irritating if we couldn't deal with Selvaria before she could be juiced up. But, personally, I dislike operating on out of character information like that too much. And I like a challenge.

The main flaw I can think of in my reasoning is that one of the secret factions could be a non-Sonic faction that also infiltrated the Green Hills after game start. It's not like we know about their identity. It's a secret after all. That and at the time of the question Eggman could have counted as the second hidden faction. Kind of. The results of defeating the Black Arms had been posted, so we weren't really a secret, but the interlude hadn't.

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Using Meta knowledge is not something i like, I actually dislike that tbh. Agree that Eggman in Charcater has reasons to point his attention to the Empire, but would say that you guys cannot just monofocus on them.

Would like you guys to recheck Eggman's character sheet and check his drives please:

Eggman Drives:
Find information about Sonic the Hedgehog:
Reclaim your Empire and show Zavok the error of his ways
Side Drives:
Deal with GUN once and for all.
Take Care of the Restoration

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Currently the Empire is not in his list of objective, they will come LATER after the other targets on his list are dealt with, of course future developments can make a Drive for the Empire appear and make Eggman focus on it.

 

[UltimateBlackAce]

It just looks like you're phrasing it as if going from dealing with Selvaria to Max isn't much of a problem.

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Nah, I'm not that confident. I've been talking largely in the context of Green Hills. My future oriented perspective is looking towards getting greater ability to look outside out of that bubble, even if Eggman doesn't have complete control over Green Hill by that point. My concern is that however long feuding with the Restoration, and GUN once that alliance breaks down, slows that second point down. No guarantee that what's outside will wait for us to do so.

I am aware that we're going to start getting global reports, but that's more generalized intel.

For buildup, once Zavok is dealt with, I think we should start taking actions to get some passive production and bonuses going. Before beating him, since we're moving towards the end of that, a Badnik factory or two seems pretty critical to start building up numbers, as Badniks currently are a drain on action economy to produce and will be the bulk of Eggman's forces regardless. Plus Eggman becoming a bigger priority for everyone once Zavok's no longer the local big fish.
From logistics, I'd like to get Ragnite Mines, Ring Reactor, and the Ragnite Reactor (Plus the Badnik factories plus Metal Mines, but we can't predict what shape those'll all be in). From Brains, that's Ring Retrieval Units and upgrading Badniks to Ring Power. And general income.

Using Meta knowledge is not something i like, I actually dislike that tbh. Agree that Eggman in Charcater has reasons to point his attention to the Empire, but would say that you guys cannot just monofocus on them.

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Also not a fan of abusing meta knowledge. Not planning to ignore the other factions, I'd like to work towards subverting them as I said before. Plus what I've said about failed outreach still being a benefit in my eyes to reduce hits to loyalty.

 

[Kingster]

Nah, I'm not that confident. I've been talking largely in the context of Green Hills. My future oriented perspective is looking towards getting greater ability to look outside out of that bubble, even if Eggman doesn't have complete control over Green Hill by that point. My concern is that however long feuding with the Restoration, and GUN once that alliance breaks down, slows that second point down. No guarantee that what's outside will wait for us to do so.

I am aware that we're going to start getting global reports, but that's more generalized intel.

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I hope this doesn't come as backseating (nor is), but as general advice, while trying to check what happens in the rest of the world is a good thing, I can't recommend a lot that you guys seek to interact with your other kings while also still Dealing with G.U.N and the Restoration.

In case when/if you start conflict with other kings, having still the Restoration and G.U.N in your background might be problem, cause you might end up fighting a war on 2 fronts. And while hoping to use their assitance to deal with them is an option, that would just mean that they divide too their focus to deal with both you and whatever threat you bring to Green Hills.

There is a reason we have limited somewhat how much outside contact we have allowed to Green Hills at the start.

Still, if you guys want to play this way/take this course of action that is perfectly fine, You have the metaphorical map that guides the bus that is this quest, we might write what happens , but you guys at the end have the final say in what eggman does.

 

[Dezron]

Didn't we have Omake reward that made actions against GUN not cause loss of Belle's opinion?

 

[Fleightfire]

Didn't we have Omake reward that made actions against GUN not cause loss of Belle's opinion?

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We do, so as soon as our temporary alliance with GUN against the Black Arms is over, it's business as usual. Though I prefer we handle Zavok before being hostile to them.

 

[Soberan 123]

I don't disagree. It just looks like you're phrasing it as if going from dealing with Selvaria to Max isn't much of a problem. We obviously need to get rid of the Empire's foothold, then eventually the Empire. Bordering the Empire directly is going to be an action sink, and badnik too because they'll invade us. It's not something to outright stop our plans against them over, but it's something to keep in mind.

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One thing about Max character is the guy is the ultimate pragmatic, he is invading Green Hills at the moment because it has a lot of stuff he wants and because is very much disunited proving a excelent oppotunity for invasion.

Show signs of the conflict die down and Max will maybe even call for a end of hostilities since he no longer can take advantage from the chaos.

Unfortunate as you may not realize the Empire has been using badniks and Neo Metal Sonic as a source of propganda since their fail attempt of
conquest in the background.

They know about Eggman for quite a while and we announce ourselves Sage make it clear they would be punished at some point. We are their enemy from day one, can't avoid that and downright expect Eggman name now will prop up on propaganda posters since Turn 4.

Also much like Shadow they probably would give as another action since the Black Arms has given one when we kick their foothold from Green Hills even though they were not from there.

Still even if not leaving their foothold alone is very much a bad idea once we reclaim our stuff from Zavok. They have a lot of resources thay can call from home and other Hero Units as well, better deal with them when Zavok is done.

In case when/if you start conflict with other kings, having still the Restoration and G.U.N in your background might be problem, cause you might end up fighting a war on 2 fronts. And while hoping to use their assitance to deal with them is an option, that would just mean that they divide too their focus to deal with both you and whatever threat you bring to Green Hills.

There is a reason we have limited somewhat how much outside contact we have allowed to Green Hills at the start.

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Frankly my idea was kind use their help to deal with Black Arms and other more monstrous Kings that prove a existential threat, like the Vortex.

Because the GUN and the Restoration does have trick on their sleeves that could be useful against them while also one of the few factions that need little convicing to know the full threat of the Black Arms and poasiblw trow themselves against existential threats once point out their existence.

I mean even if they lost Shadow they would not trying to stop invading Green Hills because we have the Blue Chaos Emerald.

 

[Dezron]

We do, so as soon as our temporary alliance with GUN against the Black Arms is over, it's business as usual. Though I prefer we handle Zavok before being hostile to them.

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I'm pretty sure priority right now is more or less:

1. Zavok
2. Black Arms/Doom
3. (Soon to be) GUN(ned down by Eggman)

 

[Kingster]

Frankly my idea was kind use their help to deal with Black Arms and other more monstrous Kings that prove a existential threat, like the Vortex.

Because the GUN and the Restoration does have trick on their sleeves that could be useful against them while also one of the few factions that need little convicing to know the full threat of the Black Arms and poasiblw trow themselves against existential threats once point out their existence.

I mean even if they lost Shadow they would not trying to stop invading Green Hills because we have the Blue Chaos Emerald.

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For that you would need to find evidence of the other existential threats before conflicts truly break down between Eggman and them.

And when i mean evidence, i mean that those threats are at the same level of danger as the Black Arms, just finding them exist doesn't do that much.

 

[Alatie]

Hmm...I have no arugments about getting our house in order before we start moving outward.

We really do need to take the time to build infrastructure and get those upgrades cleared out.


That said I think part of the problem regarding Gun and the Restoration is...we aren't exactly sure how to declare hostilities without tanking the loyalty of some of our best units.

GUN is likely to be temp allies for at least a little bit with the Black Arms around, and I don't think any of us are willing to poke the Restoration right now.

Zeti and then Empire is simply the easist path. Though looking for trickery would be good as well.

 

[Soberan 123]

I'm pretty sure priority right now is more or less:

1. Zavok
2. Black Arms/Doom
3. (Soon to be) GUN(ned down by Eggman)

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There's is the Vortex and different from the Black Arms that have to contest orbital control from other Space Factions, the Vortex enjoy full control of the seas and they will attack the mainlands once the fish on deep waters run out.

Serious I consider even more dangerous than the Black Arms because they are much close to us than them therefore less logistic problems.

 

[Aron593]

I think the true stress moment will be when it comes down to what to do with Shadow.

We have a deal pretty cut out with Rouge after all.

The moment they decide to finally writte off Shadow and try to carry out those hit orders we will need to get involved.

Because lets be honest, writting off Shadow even with what he has done is a very bad idea.

Cause tell me where are you going to find another Hedgehog that can go super and actually has practice with their superform powers and not just someone who will probably enter that mode for the first time in their lives.

That doesn't come from us.

Because, Sonic? he is nowhere to be seen neither is Silver.

The cat princess would even be wary of just throwing her superform at some stuff since even getting access to one Sol Emerald could spell doom for everyone.

 

[Kingster]

Hmm...I have no arugments about getting our house in order before we start moving outward.

We really do need to take the time to build infrastructure and get those upgrades cleared out.


That said I think part of the problem regarding Gun and the Restoration is...we aren't exactly sure how to declare hostilities without tanking the loyalty of some of our best units.

GUN is likely to be temp allies for at least a little bit with the Black Arms around, and I don't think any of us are willing to poke the Restoration right now.

Zeti and then Empire is simply the easist path. Though looking for trickery would be good as well.

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If you can get the Loyalty of your hero units high enough, the loyalty hit won't be as bad, or you can focus on raising theiur loyalties after too

I think the true stress moment will be when it comes down to what to do with Shadow.

We have a deal pretty cut out with Rouge after all.

The moment they decide to finally writte off Shadow and try to carry out those hit orders we will need to get involved.

Because lets be honest, writting off Shadow even with what he has done is a very bad idea.

Cause tell me where are you going to find another Hedgehog that can go super and actually has practice with their superform powers and not just someone who will probably enter that mode for the first time in their lives.

That doesn't come from us.

Because, Sonic? he is nowhere to be seen neither is Silver.

The cat princess would even be wary of just throwing her superform at some stuff since even getting access to one Sol Emerald could spell doom for everyone.

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To be fair to them, that Hedgehog that can go super is currently one of Black Doom's top enforcers, if not their main guy, and is being used to further their goals.

Is simply asset denial, if they can't get Shadow back to normal well....they need to get rid of him.

You have seen his sheet, he is that much of a threat when the dice don't give him single digit rolls.

 

[Dezron]

That said I think part of the problem regarding Gun and the Restoration is...we aren't exactly sure how to declare hostilities without tanking the loyalty of some of our best units.

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We never made peace with Restoration in the first place and GUN is pretty much free game.

Or we can just eat loyalty hit and move on.

Serious I consider even more dangerous than the Black Arms because they are much close to us than them therefore less logistic problems.

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We don't know about them in-universe and who knows how long it will take to learn about them.