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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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seonor said:
Sending apprentices along with the Hearth Guard would be fine, as a master can send them out to do stuff like hunting for reagents or gaining experience - but the master is also supposed to make sure that the apprentice is prepared for the risks and survives. A runesmith actually swearing the oaths of loyalty required for the Hearth Guard would be a different matter.

I doubt Vragni's retinue have sworn oaths the same way the Hearth Guard have, they are more like Snorri going on campaign and friends, allies, (former) apprentices (or apprentices of apprentices), and random Runesmiths on their journeying all flocking to him and his leadership.
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If we, as I hope, manage to more consistently have Snorri have a chain of of personal apprentices that should both mean there are a lot more members of Snorri's lineage who may be encouraged to follow his example.

I think Master of Many Means that if we recruit a pair of apprentices, and then recruit a second pair of apprentices five turns later, the teaching process then becomes action positive from that point on. From that point on we'd always have a pair of senior apprentices and a pair of junior apprentices, costing no personal AP and generating one apprentice AP.

As Master of Many improves, the action economy may further improve.

Yes, we'd have to sacrifice having six options for five turns, but I think it's worth it.
 
Ratato said:
Aside from that seeming a little too easy mechanically, it might be better not to risk treading down Vragni's path towards Apprenticeship / Rule of Pride in addition to our own, since the two of these likely do not combine well from spirit-of-the-rule perspective?
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I disagree here, because there are very strong expectations amongst Runesmithts that outsiders have no business having an opinion on how a master teaches their apprentices.

Playing games with minor variations for Rule of Pride purposes is different, but I'm pretty sure that teaching large numbers of apprentices is something that no one has a problem with.
 
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Alratan said:
I'm pretty sure that teaching large numbers of apprentices is something that no one has a problem with
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Fair, it's more teaching apprentices for the sake of getting their actions that I am looking askance at here.
In any case, apprentices of the talent bar that we have chosen are probably not that common, although whether that would be an issue with this plan is currently an unknown.
 
Ratato said:
Fair, it's more teaching apprentices for the sake of getting their actions that I am looking askance at here.
In any case, apprentices of the talent bar that we have chosen are probably not that common, although whether that would be an issue with this plan is currently an unknown.
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Ah, well.

You can ask Soul about some of the submissions I've sent him, I suppose. :V
 
Ratato said:
Fair, it's more teaching apprentices for the sake of getting their actions that I am looking askance at here.
In any case, apprentices of the talent bar that we have chosen are probably not that common, although whether that would be an issue with this plan is currently an unknown.
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Note that we only get their action while they're an apprentice. I think that's fine, as long as we don't extend their apprenticeship artificially or try to control their actions post-graduation.

What's radical about Vragni, is, in part, the degree of influence he has over his ex-apprentices, not his current ones, I think.

The main point here isn't about making a profit in terms of apprentice actions, but avoiding making a loss in terms of permanent actions. An apprentice action or two is just a nice bonus.

We're in a scenario where the best time to have set up the appropriate rotation was five turns or more ago, and the second best time is now.

veekie said:
I'm entirely in favor of endless streams of cute apprentices.
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The way I analogise this is to a hypothetical university professor quest. It's not just about research and inventions, part of the point would be to have a churn of different post-grads on your team being part of the quest for a while and then going off to live their own lives and have their own careers.

Having a character turnover to introduce a stream of new perspectives would be part of the goal. It's like a soap opera, apprentices anre effectively guest starring in the quest. Some limited number may join the regular cast to replace departing regulars, but the churn is part of the point, so different stories can be told and the narrative kept fresh.
 
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Alratan said:
I think that's fine, as long as we don't extend their apprenticeship artificially or try to control their actions post-graduation.

What's radical about Vragni, is, in part, the degree of influence he has over his ex-apprentices, not his current ones, I think.
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Ah, that makes sense.

Consider my objections withdrawn then, since training apprentices is normally considered a good thing anyway.
 
I will await the day when Vrangni finally realise that he is the second most radical rune Lord before Snorri, that all this time trying to counter Radicalism has made him the 2nd poster dwarf for radicalism
 
TylonGreas112 said:
I will await the day when Vrangni finally realise that he is the second most radical rune Lord before Snorri, that all this time trying to counter Radicalism has made him the 2nd poster dwarf for radicalism
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The apprentice thing is well within acceptable parameters.

I would find the citations, But I Am Currently Cooking.
 
Alratan said:
No, that's not what I said. When we first saw Snorri Whitebeard with Windsight we observed he had the golden veins in his soul that are characteristic of the Gift.
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Oh my mistake.
In that case Snorri Whitebeard, elder brother of two ancestor gods, Future Gromrinbrindal, and probably only didn't become an Ancestor god because he was just an extension of his fathers shadow, is the least surprising exception I can imagine to the rule.
Yes it is interesting, however also its hardly the same proof as if Moira had the Gift.

And proof they're capable is not proof they know how to do it... Its totally plausible for a runesmiths child with the gift to enter the priesthood for whatever reason, married out of a clan, no master available, talent too weak to be worth it, just didn't want to be a runesmith, however unless theres also an unbroken chain of teaching runecraft, they're just going to be a priest with an unrealised talent they're not going to be able to craft the ancestors rune.
 
Dark as Silver said:
Oh my mistake.
In that case Snorri Whitebeard, elder brother of two ancestor gods, Future Gromrinbrindal, and probably only didn't become an Ancestor god because he was just an extension of his fathers shadow, is the least surprising exception I can imagine to the rule.
Yes it is interesting, however also its hardly the same proof as if Moira had the Gift.

And proof they're capable is not proof they know how to do it... Its totally plausible for a runesmiths child with the gift to enter the priesthood for whatever reason, married out of a clan, no master available, talent too weak to be worth it, just didn't want to be a runesmith, however unless theres also an unbroken chain of teaching runecraft, they're just going to be a priest with an unrealised talent they're not going to be able to craft the ancestors rune.
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I already agreed with the second point. If only descendants of Thungni are tested for the Gift, until Snorri came around no one would know if the lineages of other gods also sometimes had the Gift.

It would be interesting to see if any of Snorri's Whitebeard's mortal siblings (and possibly children) are still around and take a look at them.

If we saw other dwarves with the Gift who weren't believed to be descended from Thungni that would also be telling, even if one couldn't rule out infidelity somewhere in their ancestry, assuming that's a thing amongst dwarves, or adoption similar to Karstah.

TylonGreas112 said:
I will await the day when Vrangni finally realise that he is the second most radical rune Lord before Snorri, that all this time trying to counter Radicalism has made him the 2nd poster dwarf for radicalism
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Sven and Valma need to raise their game:

soulcake said:
Name: Sven Hoggrison
Affiliation: Really Radical my man

Name: Valma Hilldasdottit
Affiliation: Totally Kick Flipping Radical my dude
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