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Renascence: A Homura Quest

Honorifics or Western-style Titles? I've used both before, which is bothersomely inconsistent

  • Japanese Honorifics (-san, -sama, -dono, -chan, -kun, -senpai, etcetera)

    Votes: 12 33.3%

  • Western Titles (Mister, Miss, job titles, Lord, Lady, etcetera)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Use whichever works better for a given sentence.

    Votes: 24 66.7%
  • Total voters
    36
  • Poll closed .
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Higure said:
[?] ...I need a way around Grief Seeds. I need to be able to properly clean my Soul Gem without killing Witches. : "The price will be...a little work, on my behalf."
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This sounds promising. Particularly if Sayaka gets the itch to start saving witches.

And we should totally grab that drink with Yuuko, even if it's at a later time.
 
Carinthium said:
Just to be clear for Mecrazyfang's sake, I gave several strong arguments for courses of action on another thread being immoral and was told in no uncertain terms I had to ignore them.

BleachDoctor, I'm going to send you a Conversation discussing what is wrong with your idea.

Higure, here's another one just to check.

[x] Brainwash Kyubey into being a genuine ally

Kyubey is sufficiently evil people won't have problems with this, right? After all, if they do we'd have to get into a philosophical moral argument over it.
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"Ah, sorry. It would be my pleasure to put that little rat in his place, but I'm afraid that brainwashing isn't something I will do."
 
Milurk said:
This sounds promising. Particularly if Sayaka gets the itch to start saving witches.

And we should totally grab that drink with Yuuko, even if it's at a later time.
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We become human again.

... That could work actually. Make the same wish again except Homura's Karmic weight should be a lot bigger like Madoka's due to them being the cause and focus of the Time Loops.
 
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Also, pointing out that based on Higure's response we can get several free allies at almost no cost. Would be nice, if only to save time. Getting Kyoko Sakura, both as a genuine ally and early, would be more than worth the price.
 
Carinthium said:
Just to be clear for Mecrazyfang's sake, I gave several strong arguments for courses of action on another thread being immoral and was told in no uncertain terms I had to ignore them.

BleachDoctor, I'm going to send you a Conversation discussing what is wrong with your idea.

Higure, here's another one just to check.

[x] Brainwash Kyubey into being a genuine ally

Kyubey is sufficiently evil people won't have problems with this, right? After all, if they do we'd have to get into a philosophical moral argument over it.
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Huh. Well, let's not delve into that...Thanks for clarifying, at least.

Higure said:
The price for a wish to make them your allies will be something relatively minor, like your self respect.

How she grants that wish is something she'll decide.

[?] ...I need the strength of heart to continue, no matter what! : "The price will be...your denial, and a little pain."
[?] ...I need a way around Grief Seeds. I need to be able to properly clean my Soul Gem without killing Witches. : "The price will be...a little work, on my behalf."
[?] ...I need a drink. : "The price will be...a few hours of your time, while you share it with me."
[?] ...I need more time! : "The price will be...your sanity."
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So, to get allies, we probably have to do incredibly humiliating things. As in, 'you lose a hundred SAN for this' things.
 
Damnit, hit 'post' early.

[?] ...I need the strength of heart to continue, no matter what! : "The price will be...your denial, and a little pain."
[?] ...I need a way around Grief Seeds. I need to be able to properly clean my Soul Gem without killing Witches. : "The price will be...a little work, on my behalf."
[?] ...I need a drink. : "The price will be...a few hours of your time, while you share it with me."
[?] ...I need more time! : "The price will be...your sanity."

1 - That sounds a lot like the Pain Train flattening us. I think not.
2 - Yuuko is going to make us do something incredibly dangerous, isn't she? Ah, hell. Worth it! Infinite Magic, well worth the trouble.
3 - Ah, hell. Ask about that later. Even if she means 'Timestop with me so I can get more done', she's probably reaching for the highest rack in the multiverse.
4 - Yeah, no. Not a chance.
 
So just to be clear this is our only chance for the contract? please tell us we can come back later and have that drink, someone as experienced as her would make a good ally, even if she only gives cryptic advice.
 
More time it is![/jk]

[x] ...I need a way around Grief Seeds. I need to be able to properly clean my Soul Gem without killing Witches.
 
You'll get other chances to contract, she'll explain when later.

She's always up for a drink, and advice is cheap, however, so that's more widely available.
 
Carinthium said:
Yes this is bad, but is it really so bad? I still think it's worth it.
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Thing is, there are easier ways to do it. That's why it isn't an attractive choice.

Mami? We now have a huge bonus to diplo with her.
Madoka? We know her inside and out.
Kyoko? Buy her some pizza, ask her to help us hunt down some really damn big Witches and share the spoils reasonably. Training for Walpurgis, which has so many Seeds that she'd be set for ever if she got even a portion of its drop.
Sayaka? We're already making great inroads. She's probably dead this Loop, but next time, we don't bring her to that damn shop. Start off in need of help, befriend her, and ask for help in protecting people.

They take very little effort to actually get on our side, so long as we know what we're doing.
 
Milurk said:
But the wish is for an alternate way to cleanse our soul gem, which means we would still need to have a soul gem. Which...means we wouldn't be human?
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Considering how Yuuko doesn't exactly seem to follow exact wordings when it comes to deals... I'll be frank. I don't like her, at all. We poked the shiny and now we have to have her grant us something. Even if we do have a cop out option with the "get a drink one" which will probably not be alcohol. And even then we're spending 5 grief an hour just to keep our heart okay.

Each price she has could have many different meanings and you never know which one it is until its too late. I rather hate her on principle alone.

The Gem portion of our soul gem is just Homura's solidified soul as well, so that can easily be put back... for a given value of easy anyway.
 
Mecrazyfang said:
Thing is, there are easier ways to do it. That's why it isn't an attractive choice.

Mami? We now have a huge bonus to diplo with her.
Madoka? We know her inside and out.
Kyoko? Buy her some pizza, ask her to help us hunt down some really damn big Witches and share the spoils reasonably. Training for Walpurgis, which has so many Seeds that she'd be set for ever if she got even a portion of its drop.
Sayaka? We're already making great inroads. She's probably dead this Loop, but next time, we don't bring her to that damn shop. Start off in need of help, befriend her, and ask for help in protecting people.

They take very little effort to actually get on our side, so long as we know what we're doing.
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All of these take time, and none of them are perfect. Kyoko Sakura is a loose cannon who won't come to us so long as Mami Tomoe is still alive. Madoka could still contract.

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BleachDoctor insisted that I continue my thread in the public forum, despite the fact I have been scolded for dragging out threads before. I'll keep going here.

I said:
First, I'm going to point out that in Puella Magi Adfligo Systema I used moral arguments and was scolded for it.

Second, Homura Akemi is obsessed even pre-Homucifer. She was willing to kill Miki Sayaka and to hand Mitakihara to Kyoko Sakura despite knowing full well how many more people would die. Why would she likely hesitate at a bit of brainwashing for the greater good?

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BleachDoctor said:
From what I hear, they were very bad arguments, but I haven't seen them myself, so whatever.

Homura was willing to kill Sayaka because she knew that Sayaka was on a downward spiral from which there was no return. It made logical sense to kill Sayaka before she could cause more damage on her way to Witch-hood. As for handing over Mitakihara to Kyouko, what, who else would she hand it to? Sayaka? Yeah right, that would end well. Better a single protector than none at all.

As for brainwashing, this just isn't a very good idea. We're trying to play Homura to the best of our abilities, and while it would be easy to go full murderface and just blast our way through timelines, caring not for the wellbeing or personal freedoms of others, we need to make sure that the world is one we want to live in afterwards.

Now, if you want to continue this discussion, feel free to do so in the main thread. If you think your argument is that good, then you should have no problem putting it up for public critique.

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I'll get back to it from here. Mods, if you're listening please don't penalise me for trying to being accomodating.
 
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Carinthium said:
All of these take time, and none of them are perfect. Kyoko Sakura is a loose cannon who won't come to us so long as Mami Tomoe is still alive. Madoka could still contract.
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Citation needed, how are you so sure that we CANT convince her when Mami is well and alive? i will bet my hat that both she and mami want to mend their relationship but kyoko is too stubborn to budge first and Mami has no experience and is afraid that pushing will only make matters worse.
 
ShadowAngelBeta said:
Considering how Yuuko doesn't exactly seem to follow exact wordings when it comes to deals... I'll be frank. I don't like her, at all. We poked the shiny and now we have to have her grant us something. Even if we do have a cop out option with the "get a drink one" which will probably not be alcohol. And even then we're spending 5 grief an hour just to keep our heart okay.

Each price she has could have many different meanings and you never know which one it is until its too late. I rather hate her on principle alone.

The Gem portion of our soul gem is just Homura's solidified soul as well, so that can easily be put back... for a given value of easy anyway.
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Yuuko is kinda the opposite of Kyubey. She's willing to interpret wishes at her convenience, and is shady as all hell with her pricing, but she genuinely wants things to end well, as long as she likes you personally, and her interpretations will reflect that.

She likes Homura, or she wouldn't be in town.

On the other hand, she has to offer fair prices, not generous ones. Some things are simply too expensive for her to not hurt you badly in the process.


Crow said:
Citation needed, how are you so sure that we CANT convince her when Mami is well and alive? i will bet my hat that both she and mami want to mend their relationship but kyoko is too stubborn to budge first and Mami has no experience and is afraid that pushing will only make matters worse.
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The Homumind agrees with you.
 
Crow said:
Citation needed, how are you so sure that we CANT convince her when Mami is well and alive? i will bet my hat that both she and mami want to mend their relationship but kyoko is too stubborn to budge first and Mami has no experience and is afraid that pushing will only make matters worse.
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Offer to pay for her food.
Problem solved.
 
Carinthium said:
All of these take time, and none of them are perfect. Kyoko Sakura is a loose cannon who won't come to us so long as Mami Tomoe is still alive. Madoka could still contract.
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Undoubtably. There are no guarantees there. But there's a lot less risk in doing it ourselves. The general assessment of this situation is that we're better off fucking it all up on our own, and owing Yuuko nothing, than fucking up our new friendly relationships later on, and still having to forfeit something ominous.

Kyoko can be brought around. In at least one Loop, shown in Different Story, Homura partners with her and brings her into Mitakihara. Mami is still there - Sayaka Contracted and saved her from Charlotte. There was tension, but only of the social variety. This can be overcome. Not easy, not in the slightest, but it can be done, and that's exactly what Homura is built for.

We can do this. We can make friends with all of them, on our own. That's exactly what we got, from CharGen here. It will take some doing, however.
The benefits to getting Yuuko to do it for us, are outweighed by the risks.
 
If Higure says that I suppose I'll have to assume my interpretation doesn't apply in this world.

Regarding my BleachDoctor argument:
-Killing Sayaka Miki still means killing an innocent person. Psychologically speaking this is a line to cross.
-Homura could have easily tried to take Mitakihara for herself. She could thus kill the Familiars. Granted this depends on her defeating Walpurgisnacht but so does anything else.

I'd add my philosophical arguments on how Homura's posistion logically implies the permissibility of brainwashing but I won't bother under the circumstances.
 
Higure said:
Yuuko is kinda the opposite of Kyubey. She's willing to interpret wishes at her convenience, and is shady as all hell with her pricing, but she genuinely wants things to end well, as long as she likes you personally, and her interpretations will reflect that.

She likes Homura, or she wouldn't be in town.

On the other hand, she has to offer fair prices, not generous ones. Some things are simply too expensive for her to not hurt you badly in the process.



The Homumind agrees with you.
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Considering not doing fair prices hurts her personally and limits her in doing more contracts i think its understandable, im actually starting to like her., i admit i was wary of her at first because i got a little traumatized when i was a kid watching it, it was oh so conveniently the monkey´s paw episode, but that taught me to be really wary of wishes so it was a good learning experience.
 
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