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Purple Phoenix Reborn (Constantinople ISOT)

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Big question I have is how this is gonna affect Religion. A lot of people are gonna see it as an Act of God, and there's probably gonna be nothing that can disprove that notion for a very long time.
 
Archduke said:
Big question I have is how this is gonna affect Religion. A lot of people are gonna see it as an Act of God, and there's probably gonna be nothing that can disprove that notion for a very long time.
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Act of God, and thus Constantinople and the line of emperors as divine has already started, and it's made converting the natives a little easier, but the Spanish reaction will be honestly amazing, almost as much as the interaction of "We come bringing christ" "We've already got him."

And how would you disprove this as an Act of God? It's an Act of Author, which is basically the same thing (there's a reason it's called Word of God) and so obvious a miracle would be hard to deny.
 
ExNihilo said:
Act of God, and thus Constantinople and the line of emperors as divine has already started, and it's made converting the natives a little easier, but the Spanish reaction will be honestly amazing, almost as much as the interaction of "We come bringing christ" "We've already got him."

And how would you disprove this as an Act of God? It's an Act of Author, which is basically the same thing (there's a reason it's called Word of God) and so obvious a miracle would be hard to deny.
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Spanish-Byzantine Union Kek.

I wonder how it'll effect greece later down the line especially in the 1800s will we see a earlier Balkan rebellion? If so how will a destabilized Ottoman Empire or evening no Ottoman Empire effect WW1? How about japan? Will the actions that forced open Japanese trade with the west not happen? Or will Byzantine traders arrive first? If Byzantine traders arrive will that mean actual help to the Japanese political leaders that tried and failed to christianize the nation?
 
ExNihilo said:
Act of God, and thus Constantinople and the line of emperors as divine has already started, and it's made converting the natives a little easier, but the Spanish reaction will be honestly amazing, almost as much as the interaction of "We come bringing christ" "We've already got him."

And how would you disprove this as an Act of God? It's an Act of Author, which is basically the same thing (there's a reason it's called Word of God) and so obvious a miracle would be hard to deny.
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Just because it was an act of God doesn't necessarily mean the Romans are forever immune from religious criticism. You could easily say that they've squandered their gift if you wanted to slander them. You could even use the miracle to attack the Romans. They were given an incredible gift, and that necessarily implies a greater standard they'd be held to.
 
theJMPer said:
Just because it was an act of God doesn't necessarily mean the Romans are forever immune from religious criticism. You could easily say that they've squandered their gift if you wanted to slander them. You could even use the miracle to attack the Romans. They were given an incredible gift, and that necessarily implies a greater standard they'd be held to.
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Oh yes, of course. Those are a couple trends already seen in-story. I imagine, for instance, the moment a king does something majorly unpopular, or just fails to live up to their hero-king ancestors, you'll be getting calls that the current ruler has gone against the policies that brought God to give them the miracle of relocation, and that they should go back to the (real or imagined) policies of Emperor Constantine XI, where Men were Men, Women were Women, and [whatever point they're trying to push].

The fact that there was a miracle, or what appears to be one, doesn't mean they're immune to criticism, just highly resistant, which the current set of emperors have been good at exploiting. But neither hero-kings, good times, and (relatively) easy decisions can last forever, and eventually, people will start to grumble.
 
I'd go as far as to say the miracle makes them more open to criticism. They've been undeniably given much by God so much is expected from them. I expect much quoting of the parable of the talents from detractors.
 
Oh, it's not gonna be a smooth ride for the Romans, but think about how it'll look. But it's still something big that can't really be disproved (there will always be people who won't believe it no matter what). It'll have interesting impacts on the spread of religions.
 
The most undeniable act of god in recorded history and it was to foil the Ottoman empire's ambitions, one only wonders how that is going to effect their empire and effect the motivations of their enemies.
 
Alane1 said:
The most undeniable act of god in recorded history and it was to foil the Ottoman empire's ambitions, one only wonders how that is going to effect their empire and effect the motivations of their enemies.
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remember, though, the sultan covered it up. He claimed to the world that he burnt the city to the ground.
 
Mehmed's actions will come back to bite the Ottomans hard later on. It seemed more reasonable at the time than 'God stole my prize from under me' in a 'the Christians already hate me, nothing I can do will make them hate me more' kind of way.* Once it becomes apparent that Constantinople is both:

Still around

In a literal paradise on Earth, full of fertile soil and enough gold to guild the entire City in it

The Ottomans in specific, and Islam in general, are going to take a major body blow. This is as clear a 'God favors the (Orthodox) Christians' event as could ever happen, and that will have repercussions down the line. That being said, no group is immune to critique or mistakes. The Romans are in a good spot right now, but then, they've got a very visible 'evil Empire' to fight and the areas they are expanding in involve primitive people who are relatively easy to integrate. Constantine took the bull by the horns, Alexios is coasting on what his Uncle left him, and so on.

It won't last forever, of course, though the unifying power of the miracle will always be there to some extent.

(I also still have PLANS (tm) for how religion spreads in the New World too)

*he's wrong, of course, since there's a world of difference between 'putting an empire out of its misery and raping its capital' and 'pulling a Carthage on the Second Rome'.
 
Yeah especially given the Pope just saw literal centuries of effort to reunify the church and end the east-west schism apparently get destroyed by the Sultan I don't picture the whole claiming to destroy the city ala carthage went to go over too well.
 
I'm curious how relations with Europe will go because their first interactions will be with Conquistadors and Conquistadors are not exactly the nicest bunch of people, or the smartest, or the most cautious. I can easily see them doing something massively stupid to piss off the Romans.
 
Teen Spirit said:
I'm curious how relations with Europe will go because their first interactions will be with Conquistadors and Conquistadors are not exactly the nicest bunch of people, or the smartest, or the most cautious. I can easily see them doing something massively stupid to piss off the Romans.
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So, obviously I know that the wars in Arcadia will restructure the Aztecs completely, but I think it'll change there long before they encounter the Romans. They already have suffered some of the virgin earth epidemics, so presumably won't be in the same civil war and societal collapse risk, and will have some experience fighting troops armed with shot and steel (Ironically, Purepecha and Romans is probably a pretty good analog to Native Auxiliaries and Conquistadors), but on the other, they're weakened because of presumably losing on their northern border, which might do all kinds of things to their vassal states.

Personally, I doubt the first conquistadors will have nearly the luck Hernan Cortes had.
 
A little fact about the Aztec Emperor, Emperor is technically the wrong term to use, Rather High Priest/Priest king is more correct. Which means the Aztec 'Emperor' is the Pope of the new world in a way. I also wait for the sight of Tenochtitlan to be seen, a city much like Venice yet more expansive and awe inducing. Oh and the fact they cant really attack it easly, any attack would be seen even at night and the bridges leading to the city can be reseeded. The city also is self sufficient giving its floating farms which all in all makes it a nightmare to siege even for anyone.
 
It should likely also be noted that Hernan Cortes wasn't necessarily always on best terms with the Spanish authorities who actually sent forces to arrest him and end his rogue expedition though Cortes had the devils own luck defeated the much larger expedition that was supposed to arrest them then bribe the members with the promise of gold.

Tenochtitlan being put under siege I imagine the biggest threat to the inhabitants would the Aztec religious practice and its heavy demands for human sacrifices might keep them from trying to wait any siege out for long.
 
Alane1 said:
Tenochtitlan being put under siege I imagine the biggest threat to the inhabitants would the Aztec religious practice and its heavy demands for human sacrifices might keep them from trying to wait any siege out for long.
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Would they start sacrificing each other out of desperation?
 
So something I'm really looking forwards to is the havoc this is going to play with the reformation and the wars of religion. By the time the OTL 30 years war would've rolled around Byzantium having survived should be know by then.
 
Aztez Fan said:
A little fact about the Aztec Emperor, Emperor is technically the wrong term to use, Rather High Priest/Priest king is more correct. Which means the Aztec 'Emperor' is the Pope of the new world in a way. I also wait for the sight of Tenochtitlan to be seen, a city much like Venice yet more expansive and awe inducing. Oh and the fact they cant really attack it easly, any attack would be seen even at night and the bridges leading to the city can be reseeded. The city also is self sufficient giving its floating farms which all in all makes it a nightmare to siege even for anyone.
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Don't forget Disease, which will still be a huge issue for the Aztecs, and something they don't really have an answer for. It's gonna be much worse in a City.
 
Hmmm, i wonder how syphilis will be taken, its one of the few, if only, major deseise that originated in the Americas. Although this is somewhat disputed given a similar deases existed in Europe around the same time.
 
theJMPer said:
Well... the Romans are pretty darn Christian so probably something like:
"We told you fornication was bad!"
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I thought that was mostly a Catholic/Victorian thing? I'll admit to not having much knowledge on the Roman Orthodox Church's specifics. But it's not like it's the first venereal desease the Romans have encountered.
 
"Prostitutes bad" goes back to Paul's writings in the first century. There was some debate about if that extends to "all sex bad" or just "sex outside of marriage bad" but thottery is pretty clearly frowned upon from the beginning of Christendom.
 
theJMPer said:
"Prostitutes bad" goes back to Paul's writings in the first century. There was some debate about if that extends to "all sex bad" or just "sex outside of marriage bad" but thottery is pretty clearly frowned upon from the beginning of Christendom.
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Which is honestly a shame. Yeshua Ben Yosef was noted for befriending prostitutes and not looking down on them, so Christianity could have been different.
 
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