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Purple Phoenix Reborn (Constantinople ISOT)

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Arimai said:
The iron lodes in California are all up high in the Rocky Mountains. They are inaccessible to the Romans unless they have lots of luck and a fuck ton of labour survey a path through the mountains. Then having to build and supply a mining town that high up. Then they have to transport the iron without the help of canals or rivers. It is all pack train from there. So it poses a logistical problem for the empire. Rome requires hundreds of tons of iron and coal. They have no easily exploitable sources of either nearby.
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Coal is less of a problem given there's a decent small mine for the stuff in the East Bay. Currently abandoned, but it's there and was actively used in the 19th century.

Also, I think you mean Sierra Nevada mountains.
 
I'm a bit surprised the Romans did not deploy cavalry. Or is the terrain there not suitable for cavalry maneuvering? Or did it have more to do with the necessary cross-training between the forces that needs to happen, with cavalry being too unfamiliar for their allies?
 
Frozenpredator said:
I'm a bit surprised the Romans did not deploy cavalry. Or is the terrain there not suitable for cavalry maneuvering? Or did it have more to do with the necessary cross-training between the forces that needs to happen, with cavalry being too unfamiliar for their allies?
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It's also probably harder to replace cavalry losses. Horses, and cavalrymen, are expensive.
 
I sort of wonder how many if any horses they even had by the time of the siege and how many might have come along instead of getting eaten during the course of the city's siege.
 
Alane1 said:
I sort of wonder how many if any horses they even had by the time of the siege and how many might have come along instead of getting eaten during the course of the city's siege.
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Fortunately horses have an insanely low minimum viable population; a bit of googling puts it at 150 to 200 horses for a viable breeding population (for humans estimates range between 1400 and 5000 - our lack of genetic variability after the Mt. Toba eruption really shows through here).

Even in the worst case scenario, chances are the roman horse stock was well over the minimum threshold.
 
CV12Hornet said:
Coal is less of a problem given there's a decent small mine for the stuff in the East Bay. Currently abandoned, but it's there and was actively used in the 19th century.

Also, I think you mean Sierra Nevada mountains.
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Alright. I was looking at the map wrong. It looks like one giant chain of mountains in an inverted Y
 
I can't actually find a map showing where iron ore's been found in America... But I did find a listing of 'recent' iron mining in the USA. It basically is 'Look around Lake Michigan'. The only other mine mentioned actually being mined in recently was one in Utah so uh...

Yeah, the Romans aren't going to have half decent access to iron for a fair while.
 
The Romans are going to develop something of a recycling mania since, until they cross the mountains or meet the Inca, they won't have a lot in the way of iron. A metric assload of gold/silver and a seemingly endless amount of trees...but no great deposits of iron. Which, I suppose, will help the environment a few centuries down the line :V

(You'll also see an almost memetic-Japanese holdover of family swords/armor going on. Helpful for museums in the far-distant future, assuming that a bunch of it doesn't get melted down for scrap at some point)

As for cavalry, the Romans just don't have enough of it to spare to be sending a ton of it off by ship to a place that may or may not even be conducive to cavalry warfare. They're being conservative with that, save perhaps, some horses for Demetrios and his immediate guard.

DocMatoi said:
Sorry, what?
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To quote a different thread on here and the AH.com version of this thread:

I'm an asthmatic. I generally, generally, have a handle on it. I know my limits and when to just stop. I couldn't for the entirety of Christmas Week, and into this week. I had rapid fire asthma attacks more than once, and I hadn't had one of those in at least five years before these happened. Fell over and nearly passed out several times, too. I spent most of the week laid out with my lungs shot and barely working. It doesn't help that I didn't get breaks but for two of the days, and one of those was an hour before I was off. I was in little enough condition to read or play games when I got home, and I was in no condition at all to try and write.

Yesterday was the worst, since I had to break out the inhaler at the register. I ended up laid out in the back, and even sitting up made me dizzy and nearly pass out. So of course, I had to get up and cover a break for someone else. Needless to say, it didn't end well for anyone involved.

Since this is more a 'read if you care about it' thing...I haven't written anything since work nearly killed me. I'm an asthmatic, and I was forced to work through multiple attacks, to the point I was stumbling around and falling over in front of customers. It was not fun. It legit may have killed me, if I hadn't just stopped and gone home early a couple times. To say I wasn't in a condition to write anything would be an understatement.

It was...less than fun.
 
Thanks for chapter.
As far as i knew, italian infrantry used mainly crossbowmen defended by first ranks with big schields. it should be enough against Aztec - they were great warriors, but not soldiers. Every Aztec would try to get prisoner for himself, when romans would fight as a team to kill. I see a lot of Aztec bodies in future.
P.S In OTL,Tarascan refused to help Aztecs - and was massacred by one conquistador later. Only catholics monks saved remnants.Interesting, what they would do now. Send help to Cortez ? i would pay to see his face after arriving Tarascan-roman army could help save his ass.
 
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Chapter 10
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    • Chapter 10: Roman against Aztec
    ​
    The first skirmishes between the Demetrian Expedition and the Aztec Empire were bloody affairs. Neither side was quite sure what to make of the other. The Romans had the limited experience of the first botched meeting with the Aztec, and the knowledge of the Purépecha to fall back on. It did little to really prepare them for how very violent the Aztec warriors truly were. On the other side of the battlefield, the Aztec had no experience in fighting those with steel armor and weapons. Roman crossbows killed many an Aztec warrior who only had experience with lesser weapons used by the Purépecha and other native foes. If later historians consider the slaughter to be remarkably one-sided in favor of the Romans, it is only because the Aztec were completely out of their depth and forced to fight their own native opponents more than the Romans, who were always shock troops.

    Still, the Romans did not come out of these battles unscathed. For the Aztec, technologically inferior they may have been, were nothing if not fierce warriors...

    -Roman-Aztec Wars, Published 1820

    'Given the choice, I would have always chosen to come to the aid of the Purépecha. I was never going to see the throne. There was little enough reason to stay in Constantinople, withering away as an heir to no throne.[1] It is likely enough that I would have left on an expedition at some point, regardless of anything else. I was always a wandering soul. Being given the opportunity to lead the expedition? It was never a choice.'

    So did Demetrios say, in his thoughts and eventually in his memoirs when he returned home. Whatever home truly was, to the young Prince. Not even a year ago, he would have said Constantinople and Blachernae Palace. It was truly amazing how much opinions and beliefs could change in such a short time. For now, if he were asked, the Prince would look to the North and the West and be prompted to claim Tzintzuntzan as his home. He believed the feeling was mutual amongst many of his troops. Their hosts had been nothing but welcoming and, despite their questionable religious practices, the Romans felt they were at home, not on campaign.

    As it was, Demetrios believed that it would take little effort to sway the Purépecha to Christ anyway. It was simply a matter of time.

    "Demetrios? Why are you standing out here?"

    "I must keep watch. My duty is to my men, and I will not hear any claims I do not do my duty." The Prince's voice, even around the unfamiliar words of the Purépecha, was smooth. He, after all, knew why the question was being asked. "I could direct the same question to you, my Lady. Should you not be with the other women, mending cloth and preparing the meals?"

    Of course, he already knew the answer to that question. While very, very far from a warrior...this woman would never sit in the back with the others. Such a woman would never have made the journey to Constantinople and drew his attention in the first place. Indeed, he saw her out of the corner of his eye, even now. Staring at him with her dark eyes, daring him to comment on her presence in a way beyond what he had already done.

    Shanarani was a strong-willed woman at the best of times.

    "You are well aware of why I am here." She stepped to stand by Demetrios, her eyes looking out at the trees before them. "Do you believe the Aztec are near?"

    Demetrios laid his hand upon his sword, his gaze scanning the forest. "I believe that we cannot ignore the possibility. If I have learned anything from your brothers and the others, it is that we cannot take anything for granted. I have been told that the Aztec will take any opportunity to get close. I would like to believe that they have enough honor to face us in the open, if only to please their gods." He spit the word, the Roman's face twisting into a rictus of rage at the very idea. "However, I will not put the lives of my men at risk. Not my men, nor the men that your father has sent with us. It would be wrong of me to do so."

    I could not face my father, nor my brothers, if I failed. I could not face myself if I failed.

    "I...see." Shanarani put her own hand on Demetrios' arm, gently squeezing it. It was a simple touch, yet so much more than it appeared. Neither could show even this much around the men. "I am sure my father appreciates that you are so careful. We have...lost many men to the Aztec. I am far from the only one who is hopeful that may change, with the support you have brought. I have seen how you fought my brother and how your men have trained with my father's. I can hardly claim to be a warrior, yet I believe no one can possibly stand against the skill I have seen."

    "Perhaps. I hope that will be the case. Until then, I will continue to stand watch."

    Shanarani sighed deeply, though there was an underlying fondness to it. "Your father does not understand what he has lost, in sending you here. Few men I have ever met cared so much about others as you do."

    The Roman Prince smiled beneath his helmet, though his blue eyes remained focused on the trees. As if he could will the Aztec he knew to be hiding into being. To force them to show themselves, and prove that he was not wrong in standing upon this hill. "You should return to the others, my Lady. If the Aztec will not make a move, I plan to move the camp after our meal. The scouts claim there is a city nearby, relatively undefended. We will force conflict, if needed."

    It was deeply important to the Prince, that his men fought a battle. A small skirmish to truly test their skills. There was only so much that training with the Purépecha could do to prepare the Romans. They would have to face the Aztec in battle. A baptism of fire to gauge what they had learned. To put them to the test.[2]

    "As you wish, Demetrios." Shanarani pulled her hand back, stepping back from the Roman. Her eyes hidden behind the mane of her hair, as she shook her head. "You should do the same, if you want to feast before we move."

    "Hmph."

    -----------------

    'In the end, I would not see combat that day. Perhaps the Aztec were not lurking in the trees. Or they decided that it was not the time to fight. It would be some time yet, before my men truly saw combat. I was in the thickest part of that battle, as I had promised Shanarani. I would not lead my men from the rear. I would not stand aside atop my horse and let them fight my battle. It was not in my nature, then or now. As a Prince...as a man...I could never leave my men alone. I was their ruler, their leader, their companion. I would fight with them.'

    -----------------

    "Your Highness, you should move back!"

    Demetrios grit his teeth, and ignored the words from his bodyguard. He caught the wide blade of an Aztec macuahuitl upon his own sword. The wooden weapon, obsidian blades sharply glinting in dull sunlight, was much larger than his curved sword. Demetrios hardly cared. He had trained with the Purépecha for such a battle. He twisted his wrists, dragging his blade free with a cascade of shattering obsidian.

    I may have underestimated their determination.

    Spinning on his heel, the Roman Prince slashed down with his sword. A cry of pain echoed, as he cut the arm of the Aztec warrior from his body. A cry of pain that was short-lived, for the Prince swiftly stabbed his weapon through the heart of the screaming warrior. Barely acknowledging the blood on his arm or face, Demetrios winced as he felt a blow against his back. His armor held, even while the blunt-force forced him to stumble.

    "Stay back, your Highness!" The same bodyguard cried out, moving to attack the Aztec warrior that had gotten behind Demetrios. As the two men began to duel, the Prince in question moved further into the battle.

    "This is madness. Utter madness." Demetrios muttered under his breath, as screams in a language he didn't understand echoed around him.

    The Aztec had attacked out of nowhere, moving through the trees in a way that only those familiar with the land could hope to manage. They had ambushed his men with a skill that belied the insane way they fought. For the Aztec had no apparent strategy. Their men fought individually, concerned with the glory they would receive more than with victory. Every time they struck, it seemed to be more of an attempt to disable than kill. A Purépecha warrior fell, clutching his arm as the Aztec who attacked him crowed in victory...only to fall with a crossbow bolt in his eye.

    It was a scene replicated throughout the little clearing. A group of Roman archers stood at the back line, firing bows and crossbows into the Aztec's charge. While Demetrios caught another Aztec by surprise, jamming his sword through the man's back, the Roman line was already consolidating. Men formed into a shield wall, spears ready and waiting.

    "Do not falter, my brothers!" Demetrios shouted as far and as loud as he could. He pulled his blade free, and held the bloodied weapon aloft. "We are warriors! We are soldiers! We are Roman!" Bringing his blade down, the Prince pointed it at where Roman soldiers stood back to back with Purépecha warriors against the Aztec charge. "We stand beside great warriors of the Purépecha! We will not lose this battle, so long as we draw breath! To me!"

    Those Romans not firing volleys of arrows, nor in the shield wall, flocked to their Prince. The Purépecha, those who understood Greek, sent up a cheer of their own. For the first time in this battle, the Aztec faltered. They were unused to an enemy that rallied in such a way. Even the bravest of the Aztec warriors were already unnerved by the plate armor of the elite Roman troops. By the crossbows that so outperformed their own limited archery. [3]

    Demetrios was not one to ignore such an event. He noted the Aztec wariness, and took brutal advantage. "Push them back! For Rome and for Christ, push them back!"

    A deep roar echoed from the Romans, joined by the Purépecha, even those who didn't understand the words being spoken. A charge of those unengaged began, steel and bronze swords flashing in the dull morning light. The Aztec, save for the few ocēlōtl, broke and ran back into the trees around the clearing. Demetrios let those men run, out of pragmatism and a desire to kill the elite forces who remained. And, perhaps, to have them spread the word of his men and their attack.

    If the Aztec wanted a war, they would have one.

    "Your Highness! We've won!" A Purépecha warrior, who spoke passable Greek, cheered. He pulled his bronze straight-sword free from an Aztec warrior. "We won!"

    How long has it been since these men have been able to say that, and truly mean it?

    Demetrios smiled at the man, even while he continued to wave his men forward. "We have! We must not let up, though! We must kill all those who remain!"

    And kill the Romans did. When a soldier, one of the less fortunate to not have plate, fell to an Aztec arrow, it brought a blood-rage in the Romans. They slaughtered the remaining Aztec warriors. No quarter was given from the Romans, nor the Purépecha, who had suffered at Aztec hands for far too long. It is said that not a single Aztec warrior survived that first battle. It would only be future battles where the Aztec would ever surrender. Or where a surrender would ever be accepted. [4]

    In that moment, Demetrios could hardly bring himself to care. As he walked among the corpses of Purépecha and a few unfortunate Romans, he felt his heart break. As he had told Shanarani, he saw each and every one of his men as irreplaceable. As far from logic as it may have been, he felt the weight of their deaths on his shoulders. His men had been bloodied in combat. This skirmish had taught them much about how the Aztec fought, and how to fight them on their own ground. It was an important lesson.

    It was a lesson that Demetrios would never forget, so long as he drew breath.


    1. Demetrios had long known he would never see the throne. Alexios would not have sent him away if there were any chance otherwise. It would take the death of his brothers and their children to open that line of succession. Even so, it would still burn, deep down. This may, indeed, have been part of the reason Alexios chose him to lead the expedition.

    2. There was a desire, not just in Demetrios, to put the Roman troops to the test. Both the Purépecha and their Roman allies were eager to see just how their weapons and training fared against the Aztec. To see if they could truly turn the tide of the neverending war.

    3. The Aztec- and the Purépecha -were not unfamiliar with archery. Bows were relatively rare, but not unheard of. However it was a field that was not remotely as well developed as it was by the Romans. Not by virtue of the Aztec not caring about archery, far from it, as it was a sign of the nobility in some cases. The Aztec would use bows in the attack just as Romans. However, the Romans put much more weight on their archers and the impact they could have in a battle. Furthermore, the Roman crossbow would prove quite superior to even the very best Aztec bow.

    4. This first battle was not a time where surrender would have been accepted. Even in future battles, it was relatively rare for the Aztec to surrender. Perhaps because they believed they would become a sacrifice, much as the men they were attempting to capture for their own gods and advancement. Those few who did were often killed out of hand, such that it is believed that it was highly rare for a surrender to be accepted and for the Aztec warrior to survive to return home- or to a home in Purépecha lands as a slave or free man.

    AN: Experimenting with this one. I wouldn't expect a large amount of narrative bits, though. It's also not as long as I wanted it to be but...eh. It seemed to fit the length where it ended up. Hopefully it worked well.
     
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    • Yeah, that was great.

    It's clear that the Aztec have no idea how to handle entire units of archers, nor are they used to the notion of field battles between organized armies.

    And yeah...obsidian weapons against steel armor, big shields, and steel weapons? That's a horrible matchup. Obsidian only really works against soft targets--it's very sharp, but brittle. An ingenious solution when you lack metalworking, but against metal weapons and armor, it's going to have a bad time.
     
    The aztecs are probably going to change tactics after this battle, at least the smarter commanders. Ambushes in terrain that does not favor large infantry formations, night raids and harassment of foraging parties are going to be the order of the day, any trick that allows to fight as warriors instead of as soldiers.

    Thankfuly the aztecs are limited by their technology and experience, so most of those tactics will have feasible counters and the retaliation of the romans will be a lot more effective.
     
    Eh, I doubt that the Aztecs would change their tactics so easily. After all, it had worked for them for years previously. Obviously, one of the leaders got lazy and failed to propitiate the gods' favor, so the army was punished for the failure. Look instead for them to double down on the pre-battle sacrifices and rituals to make sure they make the gods happy. After IRL, that is what the Mayans did when facing their civilization's collapse.
     
    MagisterAurelius said:
    Eh, I doubt that the Aztecs would change their tactics so easily. After all, it had worked for them for years previously. Obviously, one of the leaders got lazy and failed to propitiate the gods' favor, so the army was punished for the failure. Look instead for them to double down on the pre-battle sacrifices and rituals to make sure they make the gods happy. After IRL, that is what the Mayans did when facing their civilization's collapse.
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    ... that would probably lead to a strange spiral, which someone in the century of their version of internet would sum as...

    *angry Roman noises*
    Aztecs: Sacrifices for victory!
    *angrier Roman noises!*
    Aztects: ... more sacrifices?
    *ANGRIEST ROMAN NOISES!*
     
    MagisterAurelius said:
    Eh, I doubt that the Aztecs would change their tactics so easily. After all, it had worked for them for years previously. Obviously, one of the leaders got lazy and failed to propitiate the gods' favor, so the army was punished for the failure. Look instead for them to double down on the pre-battle sacrifices and rituals to make sure they make the gods happy. After IRL, that is what the Mayans did when facing their civilization's collapse.
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    Never assume that all of your enemies are stupid or obssesed, especially because this is happening way before Cortez and the action is far away from Tenochtitlan, so the reactions of their leadership are going to be less inclined to panic and more like dealing with a new hostile power in their borders.
     
    Good chapter.Fortunatelly for european,Aztec had no good bows.Spaniards only later meet local tribes on Sonora desert with bows good enough to go through schield,and some other tribes had even bows good enough to pierce mail,and even plate armour.
    p.S Aztec had 2 tactical weakness - fighting for prisoners and running when major banner fell.In Otumba battle 50.000 Aztecs run,when Cortez killed standart beraer and felled banner.
    Any other army would just finish both Cortez and his group.
     
    Wow. This is literally the story I wish I had access to in a book, or a series of books! So well researched, clearly written meticulously, thank you so much for this and keep it up!
    If you've never read it, "Lest Darkness Fall" is a great alt-history read set during Justinian's wars against the Ostrogoths. Its a different kind of story, but if you love a modern view of the past, you'd love it.
     
    Chapter 11
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    • Chapter 11
    Roman-Aztec Wars: The Cities of the Aztec
    ​
    Modern historians look back on the Roman-Aztec Wars as if they were always a foregone conclusion. The Aztec and their tributaries- many of whom were questionably loyal -were weakened by disease and technologically inferior. As if this were not enough, the Aztec insistence on training warriors to capture their enemies to advance in society ran counter to logical military tactics. What good did it do to wound a Roman or Purépecha and drag him to the altar? At best, the Aztec removed one man at the cost of many of their own. At worst, they merely succeeded in lighting a rage, especially in the hearts of the Romans, worth far more than whatever their 'gods' may have gifted them for the sacrifice. It is telling that the Aztec were slow to adapt to fighting those who fought to kill, not to capture. Even after decades of war with the Purépecha.

    However, it is wrong to consider the Wars a foregone conclusion. Disease weakened the Purépecha as it did the Aztec. The Aztec and their tributaries had many, many more men to begin with and could call on more from further afield. The Purépecha had never succeeded in defeating the Aztec before, despite superior tactics, for much this reason. Five hundred Romans were far from a war-winning instrument, even with all the advantages they provided. If nothing else at all, the Romans and their allies would need to take Aztec cities. It mattered little if the land was taken, if the fortified settlements remained in Aztec hands...

    -Roman-Aztec Wars, Published 1820



    ​
    For all the victories- of which there were many -on the field of battle, Demetrios understood that it would never be enough. As a whole, the Romans understood this better than most. They came from a society that, even fifty years removed, remembered the Siege all too vividly. So long as a City stood strong, a nation could fight on. It would hardly matter if they killed thousands of Aztec warriors on the field of battle, if thousands more could be rallied to the cause from further afield. The fault-lines in the Aztec Empire were not well understood at the time, to be fair to the Romans, and yet the point remained. Unless the entire ruling class of the Aztec Empire suddenly dropped dead, something not entirely unlikely even to the Roman eyes at the time, they would need to do something the Romans had loathed. [1] And that was besiege the great city states of the Aztec and take them by force. A task that few of the Romans were eager to undertake.

    It would be wrong to say they were not eager to defeat the Aztec, of course. The few who had been part of the initial contact with the Aztec and remembered the blood-stained pyramid especially so. Yet, these same men were far from eager to actually enter an Aztec city. Even were they not at war, this would be the case. These cities were stained red with blood. Tainted by the worship of deities that made the old Roman and Greek Gods look like child's play. [2] At least Zeus had not required the cutting of hearts from beating chests to worship him.

    To say that it was asking a lot of these men to potentially fight in one of those Hell-cursed temples was an understatement. Romans, then and now, were highly religious after the miracle of Constantinople. They had little enough desire to enter such a cursed land, even as they wanted to tear it down. A feeling that only grew with every battle.

    Of course, the larger problem than morale would be the siege issues. The men would follow Demetrios to the depths of Hell itself. The Purépecha certainly had no issues entering Aztec cities. However, actually taking the cities was the issue. Aztec settlements, as a rule, were not European. The great walls of Constantinople were a complete unknown to the Aztec in many ways. Oh, it would be wrong to claim the Aztec did not fortify their great cities. Walls were not unknown, nor was the idea of defeating a siege. However. As has previously been covered in relation to the Purépecha themselves, a proper system of citadels and towers was not so common. The great castles and fortresses of Europe were completely missing. What fortifications remained were, as often as not, dedicated to keeping the center of cities apart from the rest. True fortifications were rare.

    For all of this, it did little to change the difficulty of this manner of warfare.

    It mattered little if the cities lacked European-style fortifications, if the cities were numerous enough to strain resources. The Purépecha, as a rule, could muster armies in the tens of thousands if they were willing to risk their own homeland's security. In ideal circumstances. With losses to disease and a need to keep the border regions garrisoned? The issue, as it always was for the Purépecha, was simply a lack of manpower. There were fewer Purépecha men to throw into battle than there were Aztecs to counter them. If a wedge could be driven into the Aztec tributary system, perhaps that could change, but this would not be the war to do that. The Purépecha were an outside and familiar enemy, at a time when the Aztec were at their height. Furthermore, only the most loyal of Aztec tributaries were on this border. As such, numbers were always an issue.

    Perhaps most pertinently for this war, there were not enough men to occupy Aztec cities and continue pushing forward. The Romans, acting in a leadership position, were quite insistent upon the need to prevent any cities from being in the rear of the advance. [3] With this in mind, it was impossible to simply march on Tenochtitlan and take the city by storm. Even if it were not for the fact this city did, in fact, have defenses that would be hard to breach. The Romans, and the Purépecha to some extent, wanted to secure the land they took and not overextend. The Purépecha had tried doing so before, and were always forced to fall back when the Aztec brought overwhelming numbers to bare.

    It was this fact, in large part, that prevented a 'scorch and run' strategy, however tempting it may have been. The Romans had no love for devil worshippers, as they saw the Aztec, and the Purépecha were perfectly willing to condemn Aztecs to starve after decades upon decades of war. However, to burn the great border cities to the ground would only prevent the Purépecha from using the land they took. In this regard, it was not that dissimilar to European warfare. What use was there in putting a city to the torch, if you intended to occupy it anyway?

    It did present the issues listed above, however, for the Roman and Purépecha forces. If they needed to occupy a city, they could only spare so many men for further advances. The size of the Aztec realm played against the strengths in pitched battle that the allies possessed. Even if the average citizen of one of those cities was not resistant to occupation- indeed, few truly were in a way the Romans expected -it still required men to guard against those few who did resist. Luckily for all involved, the Romans did bring one extra card to the table.


    ​
    Gunpowder, for all that it was a small part of any Roman force, was still a shock to the Aztec defending their cities. The expedition, on Demetrios' own recommendation, possessed only light artillery pieces. A bare handful of guns that would have looked like toys compared to the great siege pieces that the Turk had brought to Constantinople. Pieces that, on a European battlefield, may have appeared quite quaint by the time they were used in battle. However, even this small and primitive pieces were something the Aztec had no real counter for. There are tales of Aztec warriors, in lieu of charges into Roman bows, fortifying their great temples with everything available. It was an unorganized and not necessarily sanctioned action, yet it did happen.

    With the firmest walls in a settlement being those of the palace and temple districts, it was not even a bad idea.

    However, in those cases, Roman artillery could often be brought to bear. Never more than a handful, often being marched across great distances to support different campaigns. More often than not, there was not even enough good gunpowder to properly make use of even these few guns. It mattered little. Roman cannon fire, light as it was, proved capable of terrifying the Aztec defenders who had no concept of what they were seeing. It was a strategy that would only work as long as it took the Aztec to realize it was not magic being used against them. And that the light Roman field guns could hardly batter down a good wall, even one built by the Aztec or Toltec before them. The shock value was limited in this regard.

    Even that hardly mattered when holes were punched in walls that had repelled enemies time and time again. In ways that made no sense at all to a society that had no real knowledge of gunpowder, or indeed, artillery. This was, much the same as steel weapons and European combat tactics, a major part of how the Romans tilted the odds in the favor of the Purépecha in this war. It was telling that an Aztec settlement that may have withstood months of siege, surrendered much sooner when the cannon were brought to the siege.

    It was almost a shame that the Romans had so few cannon. There had seemed little reason, in the heady days of exploration in Arcadia and Elysium, to construct more cannon. Iron was limited, bronze was little better, and the natives of the new land had no counter to crossbows, let alone artillery. Demetrios would come to regret his decision to take so few cannon, in the future, and would push his father and brother towards finding a way to cast larger bronze pieces if no source of iron became available in short order. That would be for the future, however. For now, the Romans made do with what was available, and relied on the Purépecha to provide the numbers to make up for the lack of cannon.

    Still, the war would continue for some time. Cities would need to be taken. Battles would need to be fought. And the Roman/Purépecha alliance would have to stand the test of time and battle, to see the defeat of the Aztec once and for all.


    1. Even at the time, the Romans had begun to recognize the danger of disease. It has been discussed previously how the Romans, Saint Constantine in particular, did everything to help those suffering from disease in Elysium. The Purépecha were no different. If anything, they were more vulnerable to disease than the Ohlone or others, as their great cities provided fertile ground for viruses to spread. Many, many Purépecha would die even with Roman aid doing everything in their power- with what little was understood about disease at the time -to help. It was cold comfort, indeed, that the Aztec suffered more for their lack of even that aid.

    2. The more learned of the Roman population couldn't help but make comparisons to the ancient Roman religion. Jupiter and the other Gods and Goddesses were cruel at times, and the Greeks perhaps had even more fickle deities. And yet, no Roman would believe that their ancestors had ever been so thirsty for blood as the Aztec. It was easy, in this regard, to ignore the more mild Aztec religious practices or deities such as Quetzalcoatl. This went double for the fact the Romans were firmly Christian after the miracle of Constantinople.

    3. The Romans understood the threat that leaving these cities alone could entail. The Aztec were, for all their favor given to pitched battles, quite willing to strike in the shadows. If the cities were not taken, if the roads were not secure, men would die and resources would be cut off. There was no ignoring these cities and farms in favor of a march on the Aztec capital, no matter how close it may have been to the Purépecha in the grand scheme of things.


    AN: This one was a bit tough, mostly because it is rather hard to get a good idea how the Aztec actually would have fortified their cities. Hopefully it worked out. I may do more narrative bits for this war, I'm debating on that one for now. Either way, don't expect this war to end the Aztec for good- Cortez and his group, the Romans are not. Nor are the Purépecha, however much they'd like breaking Aztec power for good.

    For one, they can't rely on just strolling into the capital and taking the Emperor hostage. :V
     
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    • Oh nice. Question: Have the Romans found OTL Yosemite yet? I was just thinking that a state that integrates the the peoples living in Yosemite Valley instead of chasing them out may well end up establishing a town there. Probably quite a while in the future, since Yosemite is almost a month by horse away from Constantinople.
     
    I wonder if they will start to integrate the native Americans pushed into the Great Plains when such events happen since they have such a emphasis on cultural integration and expansion. Also I wonder if they can beat Spain to the punch when expanding into the South Americas at least on the western side?
     
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