I'm not actually sure that makes it better. Given the whole, you know, forced to kill an imitation of a family member thing going on.

I guess it would help for mental stability to get a firm reminder that it is just a cheap copy.
I think we have very different understandings of what narratively appropriate means, here. Because I genuinely cannot think of someone better than HA, with Red Huntress probably being tied. HA comes from ellie, RH comes from SB.
 
I'm sure he has a weakness, and she seems to have effectively every power, now. Start the fight by killing every single person in the entire city he is contracted with.

Well yeah, that's my point. She's so blatantly overpowered that it's not fun or interesting, which is why she kinda has to die literally now before she warps the entire setting (and also literally ends the Quest, that too). So I would put her against literally any enemy because it'd turn out that five weeks ago she happened to copy the perfect super to hard-counter their power.
 
I don't think you are fully considering the severity of the pain involved. This is a true 10/10 "You are only conscious because SB won't let you fall unconscious" pain. In everything. All at once. In every possible way. The kind that no one can simply 'power through'.

All of our people not named Valiant Gold are also going thought that pain, so its really a matter of regains conciousness first (after they lose conciousness).
 
All of our people not named Valiant Gold are also going thought that pain, so its really a matter of regains conciousness first (after they lose conciousness).
No. It isn't. This isn't the sort of thing you just... return to full capacity from immediately. I expect we'll be down at least a week while the entire team tries to get themselves together enough to actually do anything.

WH is a complete bastard, but I expect he'll be too busy shaking and unable to even walk straight to be a threat to anything for at least a few hours.
 
Also any speculation on what the R-train's name is?
In terms of "would be an interesting narrative opportunity to include", it's really just Red Huntress getting the chance for payback on her sister. I really don't buy argunents of thematic/narrative appropriateness for Heavenly Astrologian, given that plot thread will remain available after this
I guess it would help for mental stability to get a firm reminder that it is just a cheap copy.
Ellie is trapped and desperate and calling out for help. Using a power she doesn't know, for the first time.

You don't see something beautiful for her mother — who she loved so much, but who so often wasn't there for her — answering?
 
I actually can't think of another Power Copier in fiction that:

1) Has no time limit to how long the power remains copied.
2) Doesn't lose the ability to copy a power when the person copied dies.
3) Has no limit on the number of powers copied.
4) Leaves no hints (like people who have to murder someone to copy thier power.)
5) Gets the full power, generally no weaker*


*This is the only one where there's caveats because the clones are generally stupid and powers that take months or years to build up like Algernons or etc. But at least in theory the powers are not 'half strength' the way you get with the kinda, like, Kirby Model of getting an ability based on enemies you kill.

Like generally the reason why power copiers aren't blatantly the most powerful enemy in the setting tends to be because they're given limits that are narratively meaningful (and yes, she has to touch someone, but that's not narratively meaningful because it all happens in the past without any Saves for 'Actually no she didn't touch literally every relevant Cape in history that doesn't hard-counter her power.')
 
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I mean, that feels like it's overstating things, considering she apparently had the power to solo the entire JU at basically any time she wanted with the power of her clones, and JU was not--or at least we're told they were not--chumps.
I mean she says this, but she's also clearly not a 100% reliable source of information. We don't actually know the timeline of when she got which clones. For all we know most of the big names she got could've been during Leviathan when everyone was dying or trying not to die.

But either way, we started this quest with characters like "can stop anyone in time no save", "is just actually a black hole" and "can literally atomize people". I don't think powerful enemies are really that story killing when we're being given tools to cheat back. I'm personally having fun.
 
I mean, that feels like it's overstating things, considering she apparently had the power to solo the entire JU at basically any time she wanted with the power of her clones, and JU was not--or at least we're told they were not--chumps.
Same could be said of SM. The original JU had no way of actually defeating him even back when Apiary was still alive, and they tried real hard to do so. Exceed-Beyond was purpose built with the goal of killing Scarlet Maturity in-mind and even then, I wouldn't rate VG's odds well in a 1v1 with SM.

As things stand, SB's best bet is juicing her own SM clone as quickly as she can but that's a fight the original will win due to a better understanding of his own powers and more combat experience. None of the combos she pulled off for this fight can really put SM down and he just needs to get lucky with collateral damage once while she has to keep fighting him perfectly. Odds are stacked against her in that fight.
 
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I still think y'all are overthinking it. Heavenly Astrologian for instant decapitation and then whatever affects Ellie in the best way/gets us synergies and power.
I'd add in Red Huntress as well for the mix of scaling with the sheer level of power arrayed against her, arguably our best individual power for synergy hunting if we care about that here, the marking element seems nice here, and I want to give Harper the chance to kick her sister's teeth in.

Heavenly Astrologian makes sense from the dual POVs of battlefield control and frankly supporting Ellie in the first time ever she has to use her supermode, especially against a clone of herself. It seems like the perfect time to call on her when using the power for the first time.

Just a question of arguing who the third should be in my eyes.
 
I mean she says this, but she's also clearly not a 100% reliable source of information. We don't actually know the timeline of when she got which clones. For all we know most of the big names she got could've been during Leviathan when everyone was dying or trying not to die.

But either way, we started this quest with characters like "can stop anyone in time no save", "is just actually a black hole" and "can literally atomize people". I don't think powerful enemies are really that story killing when we're being given tools to cheat back. I'm personally having fun.

I mean, I'm having fun, sure, but Socialite Butterfly is kinda a black hole. Her power isn't interesting because it doesn't actually have meaningful limits and is completely busted without actually including any interesting weaknesses or elements, and she doesn't make up for it by being interesting or having an interesting personality or having interesting goals or intentions.

Personally for me I think she might be my least favorite antagonist of this entire Quest? Like, not just in the "I hate her" sense, since I'd put White Hawk above her and I hate the shit out of him.
 
By the way, does anyone else think it's really funny that we're fighting an overpowered character that hoards NPC's, is sociopathic, has absurd metagamy abilities...who has the initials S.B?
 
I mean, I'm having fun, sure, but Socialite Butterfly is kinda a black hole. Her power isn't interesting because it doesn't actually have meaningful limits and is completely busted without actually including any interesting weaknesses or elements, and she doesn't make up for it by being interesting or having an interesting personality or having interesting goals or intentions.

Personally for me I think she might be my least favorite antagonist of this entire Quest? Like, not just in the "I hate her" sense, since I'd put White Hawk above her and I hate the shit out of him.
Hmm, I get what perspective you're coming from then. I think I enjoy this matchup on a more game mechanics level because she's essentially doing the same thing we do in power creation with her clones by combining different powers together and I find that interesting enough to carry the encounter. But narrative/character wise I could see how it feels like a cul-de-sac.
 
Hmm, I get what perspective you're coming from then. I think I enjoy this matchup on a more game mechanics level because she's essentially doing the same thing we do in power creation with her clones by combining different powers together and I find that interesting enough to carry the encounter. But narrative/character wise I could see how it feels like a cul-de-sac.

Hmm, that is kinda interesting, but her version does feel less interesting if more powerful? Like, she's finding our synergies between existing metahumans, whereas the Project Prometheus thing creates NEW powers that are based on the synergies of existing metahumans.

"If I had Scarlet Maturity to power up every single metahuman I had, they'd be really strong" just feels like a less interesting observation than figuring out the synergies in kinds of powers.

Now, in one sense this is intentional: if she was actually smart and couldn't just pick low-hanging fruit to effortlessly be the most powerful enemy we've faced by a country mile, we'd all just already be dead. Hell, she'd have killed us Issue #0 and we'd have died like redshirt jobbers, except far more boringly.

And perhaps it's a meta-statement about the limitations of just stupidly mashing together all of the "I Win" buttons you can?
 
Ellie is trapped and desperate and calling out for help. Using a power she doesn't know, for the first time.

You don't see something beautiful for her mother — who she loved so much, but who so often wasn't there for her — answering?

Her feelings about her mother are not something we've actually explored that much yet. It's a thread that would probably benefit from having more time to cook, so to speak.
 
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