In this case, it's actually a bit more subtle than that- lighting a fire inside the house is one of the activities explicitly prohibited in the Torah as part of the Sabbath regulations (Exodus 35:3), and (from additional reading up on wikipedia) some rabbi consider the turning on of electrical devices to fall under that category.
Pound the Table | An X-Men Self-Insert
- Thread starter October Daye
- Start date
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Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
In this case, it's actually a bit more subtle than that- lighting a fire inside the house is one of the activities explicitly prohibited in the Torah as part of the Sabbath regulations (Exodus 35:3), and (from additional reading up on wikipedia) some rabbi consider the turning on of electrical devices to fall under that category.
- Pronouns
- Robot
Ah, that makes more sense than it being because of physical exertion.
Thanks for the info.
- Location
- USA
The Hellfire Club is supposed to be 4 blocks away from the mansion, so that's in the Upper East Side as well.
- Location
- USA
My parents old fridge put itself in Sabbath mode one time. We spent a couple of weeks confused on why the ice dispenser/maker would stop working on Saturdays.
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Good story. Good chapter. Some speculation, since that is fun.
This attack doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to have come from Norman Osborn. Yes, it sets Noa back and makes her work more difficult, yes, the records they sent were probably destroyed. But that isn't actually beneficial to Osborn! Ultimately, he's the plaintiff here, he wants the case to proceed! He's the one continuing to push the matter instead of accepting a settlement! He doesn't want Noa's job to be easy, but he also doesn't want the case to bog down and stall out for years.
Harry's medical records probably look bad for him, it'll be a PR hit when they come out, but Noa's right -- he can't possibly hide them forever when he's the one pushing the suit, and even she doesn't think they're completely destructive to his case. When this does eventually get in front of a judge, there'll be a reckoning.
Osborn's side seems to know this, too. Worse, they seem to be counting on it. The text made a point of several objections being made in the deposition, and Noa apparently not knowing what exactly they were objecting to, while she also recognized the opposing counsel as a competent lawyer. That's some five alarm "you are walking into an ambush" territory. I don't think this judicial intervention is going to go well for our protagonists, not at all.
But how? What is the nature of the trap? Well.
I think Osborn's true goal here is to out Peter Parker as Spider-man and ruin the Parker's lives that way.
There's quite a lot of foreshadowing and narrative momentum towards that, in my eyes. Conversations with JJJ about it, and the suspicious nature of Peter being the only one in the city who can get photos of Spidey. Talking to Peter and noting that he's bad at hiding himself. Norman hinting that he "subscribes to the school newsletter" to keep track of Harry.
Most damning of all, though, is the fact that Norman so far has never so much as mentioned Peter's existence! Go back and check yourself, not a word, even though Peter was present at the incident and Norman must know very well who Peter is. He may be absentee, but he does keep some sort of surveillance on Harry's life, and obviously he doesn't think Ben is just some janitor who randomly showed up in a locker room to attack him.
Norman's "you hurt me, Parker, and I'll hurt you" is much more ominous in this light. After all, he isn't really hurt financially. What truly hurt him, the cause that set all of this in motion, is his disappointment and rage at Harry's "pathetic weakness." So it is only fitting, then, that his revenge would be against Ben's own son (nephew, whatever) who is also the person most seemingly responsible for Harry's current condition.
How did he figure Peter out? Dunno. Could be any number of ways. Through the newspaper situation, somehow. Through Harry, who has yet to appear, but is a smart cookie. Through Peter letting it slip somehow. Maybe Peter did something superhuman during the incident and concealed or lied about it; "Noa gets tripped up by a client's own stupid stunts" is a low hanging narrative fruit that was teased a bit and not yet plucked.
Or maybe Norman thinks that Ben is Spider-man. That would be an amusing twist, although a bit on the nose to repeat the first two story arcs... no, his avoiding mentioning Peter is too suspicious, but perhaps he thought it was Ben at first and then learned the truth, or something along those lines.
Whatever the details, though, I'm betting on "something along those lines" being the Green Goblin's true objective in this case, with Noa acting as more of an unwitting assistant than opposition to him. I severely doubt Spider-man will emerge from this one with his secret identity intact.
... but if this attack is detrimental and/or unrelated to Osborn's aims, then where did it come from? I have a suspicion about that as well, though it delves heavily into Doylist reasoning, thusly...
In any event, thank you very much for a story that continues to be wonderful!
This attack doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to have come from Norman Osborn. Yes, it sets Noa back and makes her work more difficult, yes, the records they sent were probably destroyed. But that isn't actually beneficial to Osborn! Ultimately, he's the plaintiff here, he wants the case to proceed! He's the one continuing to push the matter instead of accepting a settlement! He doesn't want Noa's job to be easy, but he also doesn't want the case to bog down and stall out for years.
Harry's medical records probably look bad for him, it'll be a PR hit when they come out, but Noa's right -- he can't possibly hide them forever when he's the one pushing the suit, and even she doesn't think they're completely destructive to his case. When this does eventually get in front of a judge, there'll be a reckoning.
Osborn's side seems to know this, too. Worse, they seem to be counting on it. The text made a point of several objections being made in the deposition, and Noa apparently not knowing what exactly they were objecting to, while she also recognized the opposing counsel as a competent lawyer. That's some five alarm "you are walking into an ambush" territory. I don't think this judicial intervention is going to go well for our protagonists, not at all.
But how? What is the nature of the trap? Well.
I think Osborn's true goal here is to out Peter Parker as Spider-man and ruin the Parker's lives that way.
There's quite a lot of foreshadowing and narrative momentum towards that, in my eyes. Conversations with JJJ about it, and the suspicious nature of Peter being the only one in the city who can get photos of Spidey. Talking to Peter and noting that he's bad at hiding himself. Norman hinting that he "subscribes to the school newsletter" to keep track of Harry.
Most damning of all, though, is the fact that Norman so far has never so much as mentioned Peter's existence! Go back and check yourself, not a word, even though Peter was present at the incident and Norman must know very well who Peter is. He may be absentee, but he does keep some sort of surveillance on Harry's life, and obviously he doesn't think Ben is just some janitor who randomly showed up in a locker room to attack him.
Norman's "you hurt me, Parker, and I'll hurt you" is much more ominous in this light. After all, he isn't really hurt financially. What truly hurt him, the cause that set all of this in motion, is his disappointment and rage at Harry's "pathetic weakness." So it is only fitting, then, that his revenge would be against Ben's own son (nephew, whatever) who is also the person most seemingly responsible for Harry's current condition.
How did he figure Peter out? Dunno. Could be any number of ways. Through the newspaper situation, somehow. Through Harry, who has yet to appear, but is a smart cookie. Through Peter letting it slip somehow. Maybe Peter did something superhuman during the incident and concealed or lied about it; "Noa gets tripped up by a client's own stupid stunts" is a low hanging narrative fruit that was teased a bit and not yet plucked.
Or maybe Norman thinks that Ben is Spider-man. That would be an amusing twist, although a bit on the nose to repeat the first two story arcs... no, his avoiding mentioning Peter is too suspicious, but perhaps he thought it was Ben at first and then learned the truth, or something along those lines.
Whatever the details, though, I'm betting on "something along those lines" being the Green Goblin's true objective in this case, with Noa acting as more of an unwitting assistant than opposition to him. I severely doubt Spider-man will emerge from this one with his secret identity intact.
... but if this attack is detrimental and/or unrelated to Osborn's aims, then where did it come from? I have a suspicion about that as well, though it delves heavily into Doylist reasoning, thusly...
I'd bet it's related to Sam Lieberman, and Joseph is likely the true target. Lieberman's been a major character since the very beginning of the story, recurs almost as often as Magneto despite less of a clear connection to the current plotlines, and continually drops hints that he has deep connections to rich, powerful and unsavory people. He's all but openly claimed mob ties, though I'm not sure if Noa's realized it. Joseph, too, has gotten suspiciously more screen time and character development than seemingly necessary.
There's also the unpleasantly hanging matter of "Herr S.X." Perhaps standing for Sam X, Hydra turncoat who sold out his kindred? That's stomach churningly unpleasant to contemplate, but... Noa did call him "a bad Jew." That's only a morbid imagining on my part though, there's no real proof for it.
Sam might be good, evil, in between, directly responsible, or someone else attacking him, I don't know. But he's my bet for connections to this attack.
Or everything I've written in this post could be completely wrong. Thaaaaaat's politics!
There's also the unpleasantly hanging matter of "Herr S.X." Perhaps standing for Sam X, Hydra turncoat who sold out his kindred? That's stomach churningly unpleasant to contemplate, but... Noa did call him "a bad Jew." That's only a morbid imagining on my part though, there's no real proof for it.
Sam might be good, evil, in between, directly responsible, or someone else attacking him, I don't know. But he's my bet for connections to this attack.
Or everything I've written in this post could be completely wrong. Thaaaaaat's politics!
In any event, thank you very much for a story that continues to be wonderful!
Wait, she's a Jewish lady in New York City....
The entire island is under a single Eruv, from that wire they maintain... doesn't that let Noa do more stuff on the Sabbath than she would otherwise not be allowed?
Not being Jewish myself I don't know what exactly that allows, doubt it would let her continue arguing in court. Just wondering, apperently it allows things like using light switches?
The entire island is under a single Eruv, from that wire they maintain... doesn't that let Noa do more stuff on the Sabbath than she would otherwise not be allowed?
Not being Jewish myself I don't know what exactly that allows, doubt it would let her continue arguing in court. Just wondering, apperently it allows things like using light switches?
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- Location
- Somewhere in the Ashes
- Pronouns
- She/Her
"Apocryphal", she says. While writing about an SI in NYC. "Apocryphal".
Most of NYC's Jewish population got around the "can't leave home" rule by running this giant wire around most of the city, which, under certain interpretations of scripture, means that everything inside that wire is "at home", letting observant Jews leave their houses without breaking the rules.
Yes this is rules lawyering of the highest order, and viewed from the outside it's extremely silly, but for the Jews of NYC this wire is Serious Business, with thousands of dollars spent every year on maintaining it.
Am I the only one who thinks Spiderman will get himself involved in this, even if it turns out it has nothing to do with the Green Goblin or this case?
Also, I'd like to remind everyone Jameson will definitely make sure everyone knows about this attack and push people to find out who was responsible (and that those responsible be brought to justice).
Also, I'd like to remind everyone Jameson will definitely make sure everyone knows about this attack and push people to find out who was responsible (and that those responsible be brought to justice).
Like I said, not sure about it myself but according to what I've heard it's considered OK by the NYC orthodox Jewish community.
Only mentioned it because I don't know if October Daye knew.
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canned Tomatoes
verified non-perishable
- Location
- Germany
Oh yeah, that's a nice way to hint at who did that, especially since you did some foreshadowing earlier with someone who has super strength, at least. And who has crushed a chairs arm rests before.
The doorframe is broken, the desk smashed, the paraphernalia systematically destroyed and defaced and the smashed desk.
In addition to the telephone lines being ripped out of the wall.
The interesting thing here is also that the front door isn't smashed, wich would imply that there wasn't a sledge hammer used for the smashing.
You'd need someone going absolutely goblin mode to do all that.
The doorframe is broken, the desk smashed, the paraphernalia systematically destroyed and defaced and the smashed desk.
In addition to the telephone lines being ripped out of the wall.
The interesting thing here is also that the front door isn't smashed, wich would imply that there wasn't a sledge hammer used for the smashing.
You'd need someone going absolutely goblin mode to do all that.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Oh, I know about it. One entire side of my family is all New York Jews. Most of them aren't very observant, to be fair.
But my second-cousin-the-rabbi, out in Great Neck, is very aware of it, and rather envious of the rabbis that live in Manhattan.
- Location
- Turtle Island
- Pronouns
- They/Them
It's a running joke how bad Manischewitz wine is. Think grape juice that's gone sort of sour and had a bunch of sugar added to cover it up.
- Location
- Who knows?
Eehhh the goblin alter-ego is pretty much a giant antisemitic caricature brought to life so I wouldn't put too much stock in "oh he can't be that blatant!"
Honestly I do agree with thus. The bit about the mezuzahs being gathered and shattered on Noa's desk specifically strikes me as incredibly intentional. From what I see, those are little ceramic holders that don't really look that special at first glance and aren't really recognized the same way a menorah, a large candleholder, would be. So someone specifically gathering these instead of just smashing it like other stuff in the office is hrrmm.
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Sample-size being only my own extended family (New York and LA): this appears to be the urban norm, I am discovering (largely from this thread, honestly).
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Replace grape with blackberries and that is a type of wine made in Serbia in-house. I literally had it made for me by my late grandmother.I've heard grape is usable like that as well, but needs some vinobran/E224/Potassium-metabisulfite. It can be made in a kosher way and is then classified as Parve. How does one fuck up wine in such a way that it comes sour and sweet out of the bottle?
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I mean. If you're morbidly curious, pick up a bottle of Manischewitz. Just... make sure you have plenty of water to wash the taste away.
Suryn
On the wings of a Dragon
Creating fire is one of the prohibited items. The rulings by the rabbis is using electricty for all intents and purposes is making fire. So no turning on lights, no using a computer, no using a cellphone etc etc
Ninja'd horibbily, I should have checked the next page
GhostStalker
Jeopardy! contestant
- Location
- NYC
There's also sabbath elevator mode, where elevators automatically open and close their doors at every floor on the Sabbath, so Orthodox Jews living in elevator buildings (like a lot of the community here in Williamsburg and other parts of Brooklyn) don't have to schlep up flights of stairs on those nights. I think some Jewish hospitals here tend to have the same in their non emergency elevators.
It's also practically a rite of passage if you live near an Orthodox Jewish community to be asked whether you're Jewish when you walk by on the street and pass a Jewish family's house so you can act as their shabbos goy and adjust their thermostat for them if the weather suddenly changed overnight from Friday to Saturday, or whatever else needs doing.
I guess it's better that than being approached by random Hasidic looking teenagers on the street during the lead up to a major Jewish holiday asking if you're Jewish so that they can take you back to their mitzvah tank (think RV or van kitted out with speakers blaring klezmer music and decorated with Jewish paraphernalia extolling a specific branch of Hasidic Judaism) so that they can perform a mitzvah by leading you back to the faith if you're non observant. They're all over the place in New York around this time and during September around Yom Kippur and the other high holy days. I see them stuck in traffic all the time during that on Canal Street in Chinatown when I'm walking to the subway after work as they head back across the Manhattan Bridge to Williamsburg, blasting their klezmer music all the while.
There are parts of Jewish culture you just pick up on living in New York even if you're not Jewish yourself.
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Counterpoint. Osborns original plan wouldn't have accounted for struggling Ben Parker being able to afford a high-flying attorney. Noa's only defending him because someone called in a big favour on his behalf. It's possible whatever scheme he has planned would get shut down by Noa in seconds, when it would have slipped right past some overworked public defender. That gives him a big motivation to want to scare her off the case.
- Location
- USA
Public defenders don't get involved in civil suits. But I'll admit that I'm not exactly sure who Ben Parker could've afforded, so the point about Noa being absurdly over-qualified stands, and I'm just nit-picking.
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Eh sure why not? I'll put in on the list of thing to try out at one point. Do you want me to report back if and when I do it?
1) That's for old people. If they are young I have no idea why they would avoid going up and down the stairs. Builds muscle.
2)
Seriously if the weather is dangerous enough it's allowed to change the thermostat.3) And they don't get set semi-regularly on fire for that?
4) Yeah like how each neighborhood in Belgrade is practically it's own city. Switching from Vukov Spomenik to Slavija is like switching from an urban University Village to a Corporate Fief even though the two are only several blocks apart and don't get me started on old condemned buildings one can find by just taking a turn on a street.
One moment you're in a modern city and the next you're wondering if that is an old WWII wreck nobody bothered to fix because film industry.
Also the "stoves" one finds when driving pylons for new foundations all around the city.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
You're practically obligated to do so at this point.
GhostStalker
Jeopardy! contestant
- Location
- NYC
That would be a hate crime, which the NYPD makes special note of during the high holy holidays season in September and right around Hanukkah, as it isn't their first rodeo; this particular branch of the Hasidim have been doing this for literal decades. The Feds would likely get involved as well.
And it's kinda hard to set a vehicle on fire when it's parked in broad daylight in some of the most highly trafficked areas of midtown Manhattan, or in a garage back in the headquarters of the movement in their local Hasidic neighborhood in Brooklyn overnight. The mitzvah tanks are fully funded by the Hasidic rabbis they promote and their rabbinical establishments of course, so they're all gonna have local Shomrim security on them as well.
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So on this topic what I've looked at indicates that the big Manhattan eruv was completed in 2007 (there are notes that there were smaller ones prior but I'm not sure if specifics) and in story we are still in 1990's. Might not yet be an option.
As for the attack on Noa's office I can't think of any reason for it to have been anyone other than Norman.
It wrecks Noa's composure and steadiness while casting the investigation into a rabbits warren of false leads that will leave the whole thing lost with no good leads.
But the timing of the attack is what really makes me think Norman. It's the very day she's supposed to grill him.
*Norman's [Goblin's] thoughts* : how dare this woman think to judge me? Arrogant b*tch. Show her who's in charge here...
- Location
- Somewhere in the Ashes
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Apparently the project started in 1999. So no.