Lunaryon
Dual Aurora Wave
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- She/Her
I could have sworn there was an episode of the 90's Spider-man cartoon focused around an old war buddy of Ben's and a mention of him having some kind of enhancement, but the details are all fuzzy
Pound the Table | An X-Men Self-Insert
- Thread starter October Daye
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Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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On a different note...
From the (incredibly scanty) research I've done, citizen's arrest is very much not a thing in the US, by and large, at least in this reality. Illegal detainment, on the other hand, very much is. This thread seems like a decent place to ask, therefore-
What's the deal with citizen's arrest? Is it real or not, and where/when?
Edit: To be clear, I'm not asking for court cases or legal code citation (though I'd gladly accept them.) I'm just looking for a broad overview of the subject, since most discussions I've had about it are very contradictory.
From the (incredibly scanty) research I've done, citizen's arrest is very much not a thing in the US, by and large, at least in this reality. Illegal detainment, on the other hand, very much is. This thread seems like a decent place to ask, therefore-
What's the deal with citizen's arrest? Is it real or not, and where/when?
Edit: To be clear, I'm not asking for court cases or legal code citation (though I'd gladly accept them.) I'm just looking for a broad overview of the subject, since most discussions I've had about it are very contradictory.
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- Location
- Pittsburgh PA
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- He/Him
Keene Marlowe the Destroyer, he was in the five-part Six Forgotten Warriors saga. Had a knockoff super-soldier serum giving him strength and speed. Also happened to give Ben his costume and power activation ring when he retired.
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From my understanding it's not legal at all, but more along the lines of 'detainment until law enforcement arrives'. And the Citizen doing the 'arrest' would still be culputable for any criminal actions they took while 'arresting'.
But Marvel is a setting where Street Level heroes have existed for more than 100 years, as far back as those roaming heroes in the wild west. So I always assume there's a difference in laws.
Okay, avoiding court cases and legal code citations, going by my "very much not a lawyer" self defense training classes:
1. The first question would be "where and when?" You need to know the state and time because, well, the laws involved vary by state and time.
2. It is indeed less "arrest" and more "detainment until the cops get there"
3. Remember that improper detainment can also be called "kidnapping", which by most state laws only means that you prevent somebody's free movement. Assault, Battery, and more are also options depending on what you do.
4. Proportionality can be a concern. It's one thing to do a flying tackle followed by a few head smashes into the concrete if you just did it to a wannabe spree shooter, it's quite another to do it to a suspected shoplifter.
5. Generally speaking, you're only allowed to "detain" suspects long enough for the police to get there if you actually witnessed the crime(and over a remote video camera isn't good enough), the crime is serious(trespassing into an empty house under construction isn't), and you need to do so otherwise critical evidence of the crime will be lost, or you have a very good reason to believe that (more) violence and injury/death will occur if you don't detain them. Again, more is allowed for, say, murder, than shoplifting.
6. Better hope that the prosecutor likes you a whole lot better than the person you just detained.
etc...
But as @GamingGeek mentions, this is Marvel, and thus the laws may be different.
Edit: Going back to my vague memories of spiderman, I remember him often busting what appeared to be "known criminal #5" with what would presumably be very illegal guns in NYC. With plenty of non-spiderman witnesses to them employing said guns in criminal manners.
Which would elevate "tie up and leave for police" to be an actually reasonable thing to do under "self defense"* and "citizen's arrest" type laws, with the main problem being refusing to be available to give a statement to police.
*Self defense can include the defense of others! Criminals waving firearms around a threat to everybody around them...
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RyubosJ
Person that hates Mega Evolutions.
- Location
- UK
Well thanks. Now it's raining.and presumably the bowls are for Ben (wallet and keys), Peter (empty since he was out of the house), and May (now the 'spare' keys)
Lab_Accident
A 2D 1D4
- Location
- Your dreams
Would a witness statement by a masked person that refuses to identify themselves even be admissible as evidence?
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Oddly enough, that's not nearly as much of a problem with Spider-Man as it might sound. Because while he might be masked and not reveal his legal name, he's identifiable and has a specific identity that is associated with it. Now, getting him into court and onto the stand to provide testimony might be a problem, but Spider-Man is far more distinctive and identifiable than your statement makes it sound.
Lab_Accident
A 2D 1D4
- Location
- Your dreams
I'm fully ignorant of US law, but I'm not sure if that works. Sure, he's distinctive, but how can you actually prove it's the same person behind the mask twice? Just asking him to show his powers isn't enough, because there's a ton of metahumans in Marvel that could pass as Spider-man under casual inspection, not to mention Spider-man's frequent trouble with clones and body doubles.
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He's not Spiderman, he's a mutant tennis player! He's a menace!
I don't think we are at that level of insanity yet.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Clones and body-doubles are a problem for any witnesses in the setting, to be quite honest, there's nothing about this instance that makes them any more of a problem than normal. As for proof that it's the same person, his voice is still identifiable and his powers are unique enough to work -- he would be about on par with bringing in a witness who is, say, an undocumented immigrant. It's something that you can use to generate doubt as to the witness's reliability, but as for whether or not it's sufficient to prevent testimony would rely on the specific details of this Marvel timeline's legal landscape. It's almost certainly been an express point in legal cases before now, given that this timeline has had costumed superpowered individuals as a thing for decades now.
Although in terms of really high-profile superheroes, a surprising amount of Marvel high-visibility superheroes are either public identity (Captain America, the Fantastic Four, Black Panther if he's known at all is pretty public about being the King of Wakanda and therefore calling him to the stand would be tricky and now I want to see if it happens), unlikely to be trusted in court anyways (the X-Men), unsuitable for calling in court (Hulk, although he arguably falls under public identity depending on the comics run IIRC). Or, in cases like Thor, I suspect a lot of people might think he doesn't have a secret identity.
Out of the superheroes that maintain secret identities, a lot of them, IIRC, prefer to keep out of the public eye entirely, Daredevil comes to mind first and foremost.
I'm probably missing a fair few superheroes, but Spider-Man is legit one of the two most high-profile (in-setting) superheroes who actively seeks to keep his identity secret. The other? Iron Man, who was probably the test case for 'can a superhero testify in court without unmasking'. Assuming, of course, that there has been a test case.
Out of the superheroes that maintain secret identities, a lot of them, IIRC, prefer to keep out of the public eye entirely, Daredevil comes to mind first and foremost.
I'm probably missing a fair few superheroes, but Spider-Man is legit one of the two most high-profile (in-setting) superheroes who actively seeks to keep his identity secret. The other? Iron Man, who was probably the test case for 'can a superhero testify in court without unmasking'. Assuming, of course, that there has been a test case.
Peter is such a believable teenage little shit in this, it's hilarious.
The first client conversation is always interesting. Clients often come to lawyers with expectations -- some of them realistic, most of them not, and a lot of them very incorrect -- and navigating that conversation is so very important, just to make sure that the client doesn't feel hopeless or overconfident or doesn't get furious that a lawyer cannot work miracles.
This conversation -- the questions, the notes, the little details -- felt very familiar. Good job.
The first client conversation is always interesting. Clients often come to lawyers with expectations -- some of them realistic, most of them not, and a lot of them very incorrect -- and navigating that conversation is so very important, just to make sure that the client doesn't feel hopeless or overconfident or doesn't get furious that a lawyer cannot work miracles.
This conversation -- the questions, the notes, the little details -- felt very familiar. Good job.
- Location
- The Darkness,USA
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I'm kind of confused here @October Daye and everyone else versed in pre-90 Spider-man lore:
On the one hand Peter Parker is behaving in a way that he hasn't since before the whole with great power comes great responsibility thing in comic, but on the other hand Aunt May is the one who is dead, Uncle Ben knows Peter is Spider-man and Gwen Stacy hasn't died yet.
So can someone tell me how much of Peter's behavior is AU to this universe specifically? And OP if you are comfortable revealing that: Are we going to get the new Gwen Stacy who is a saint/heroic? Or are we going to get the old Gwen Stacy who is a tsundere mess on par with Asuka Langley Soryu, in the original Evangelion TV Series, only she doesn't have a giant robot as her security blanket?
For those of you who don't know Spider-man lore Gwen Stacy, while alive, used to be a tsundere nicknamed Gwendy that was just as much angry at Peter as she was in love with him who first suffered her father dying, then getting dragged by Norman Osborne into a very much abusive relationship with him, whose actual nature depended on the writer and the rectcons, then getting kidnapped by the Green Goblin (Norman Osborne) and dying trough a combination of Goblin trying to kill her and Peter's secret identity backfiring at the worst possible time.
On the one hand Peter Parker is behaving in a way that he hasn't since before the whole with great power comes great responsibility thing in comic, but on the other hand Aunt May is the one who is dead, Uncle Ben knows Peter is Spider-man and Gwen Stacy hasn't died yet.
So can someone tell me how much of Peter's behavior is AU to this universe specifically? And OP if you are comfortable revealing that: Are we going to get the new Gwen Stacy who is a saint/heroic? Or are we going to get the old Gwen Stacy who is a tsundere mess on par with Asuka Langley Soryu, in the original Evangelion TV Series, only she doesn't have a giant robot as her security blanket?
For those of you who don't know Spider-man lore Gwen Stacy, while alive, used to be a tsundere nicknamed Gwendy that was just as much angry at Peter as she was in love with him who first suffered her father dying, then getting dragged by Norman Osborne into a very much abusive relationship with him, whose actual nature depended on the writer and the rectcons, then getting kidnapped by the Green Goblin (Norman Osborne) and dying trough a combination of Goblin trying to kill her and Peter's secret identity backfiring at the worst possible time.
This Peter feels very much like a traumatized boy shaped more by a good man's anger than a good woman's resolve. There's just a few more rough edges than can be easily explained by puberty. It wouldn't surprise me that Uncle Ben and Aunt May parent differently, for all that the source material suggests they'd both try their best.
The question that has my curiosity piqued is what purpose to this story the change serves. Is it meant to be an intentionally minor tweak to put the butterfly effect on the reader's radar? If so, it's a warning sign that a much more profound change is being planned. Is it meant to accomplish a meaningful tweak in Peter's character for another purpose? It seems unlikely that this story in particular would be served by giving Spider-Man more than a supporting role, but hey, maybe. That he's active in the debate club of all things seems like a noteworthy choice, for a story primarily about law drama.
Or maybe the author is simply writing memories of his own adolescence by proxy. No one is more acutely aware of all of a teenager's foibles than the teenager himself, once a few years have passed.
Anyway, all this to say: fun chapter. One other thing that's come to my attention about your protagonist is that her primary super power seems to be keeping a level head, her unfair awareness of the setting's details and plot twists lending a natural confidence to encounters like this one. I'd love to see her flustered. I'd love to see her tested.
The question that has my curiosity piqued is what purpose to this story the change serves. Is it meant to be an intentionally minor tweak to put the butterfly effect on the reader's radar? If so, it's a warning sign that a much more profound change is being planned. Is it meant to accomplish a meaningful tweak in Peter's character for another purpose? It seems unlikely that this story in particular would be served by giving Spider-Man more than a supporting role, but hey, maybe. That he's active in the debate club of all things seems like a noteworthy choice, for a story primarily about law drama.
Or maybe the author is simply writing memories of his own adolescence by proxy. No one is more acutely aware of all of a teenager's foibles than the teenager himself, once a few years have passed.
Anyway, all this to say: fun chapter. One other thing that's come to my attention about your protagonist is that her primary super power seems to be keeping a level head, her unfair awareness of the setting's details and plot twists lending a natural confidence to encounters like this one. I'd love to see her flustered. I'd love to see her tested.
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Not everyone. I killed myself by the end of my teenage years. It's somewhat complicated to fully explain, but at the end of my teenage years I found myself not liking much about myself or the person I was growing up into and because of some characteristics of my own mind I had the option to commit a form of mental suicide/self-destruction and I chose to do it.
I've spent the last 15 years chocking my old self to death slowly. I am in a lot of ways very much aware of my own flaws, vices/sins and crimes when it comes to my past, but I wouldn't call anything flawed about me teenage foibles. They are either my foibles or they are not foibles at all.
there's also this bit from the 1st chapter:
which strongly indicates that Noa's a SI. Ben raising Peter after May dies warns that her old Marvel knowledge (what she remembers) is not 100% accurate
- Location
- Somewhere in the Ashes
- Pronouns
- She/Her
He's always been Jewish. Usually more "Hanukkah Bush" Jewish than "Discussing The Torah" Jewish, but yes, he has always been Jewish.
- Location
- Argentina
It would be nice if they made Uncle Ben be from Slovakia to reference Ditko parents. But unfortunately I don't see that happening any time soon.
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- Pronouns
- She/Her
The author is using her cultural experience, her life, her religion, her nerd knowledge, as writing material, and implying she shouldn't is distasteful, to say the least.
Not that I think one should be a mutant to write about mutants, but are you seriously that angry about this change?
Can't you identify or empathize with Peter Parker at all because he's different from your expectations? Do you find it insulting?
Politics is politics. "Comic books are bad for kids, like videogames, or schools." What the hell does this 'political climate' mean?
Write the story you want to write yourself, nobody is ordering you to stay here and remain offended.
- Location
- Somewhere in the Ashes
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- She/Her
No, it's always been a thing. Not explicitly for the most part, but it's always been a thing.
Hakazin
Serpent Admirer
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- She/Her
And even if it weren't, why exactly would it be a problem?
- Location
- Up.
Please, just explain why you're so against Peter being jewish? You have to realize how bad it makes you look with no context.
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- She/Her
… there's context that can make it look better?