Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Might be hearsay. Or rather hearthink. God, the tangle that would cause with the various exceptions.

It's not automatically hearsay, because it wouldn't inherently be an out of court statement offered to prove the truth of whatever it asserts. A telepath's testimony isn't equivalent "X person said that Bob killed Alice," proffered to prove that Bob killed Alice. It'd be "at that time, I could sense that Bob wanted to kill Alice," which isn't the same thing. The statement being made is in court, and the matter being proven isn't an action, but the thoughts of a specific person at the time.

If the telepath was testifying to what a third party was thinking, to prove that the third party's thinking was true, that's rather different.

Thinkthink?

I think that ethically a proven telepath would be barred from being a member of the bar (couldn't resist the pun), judge, investigator, jury panel member, etc. - because their mere existence is a 5th Amendment case in the making. You cannot avoid self-incrimination, because you cannot avoid thinking about elephants when being questioned about them.

It would be a 5th Amendment case in the making, but given the Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination only prohibits the court from forcing you to answer questions or make statements when those statements might be used in a criminal proceeding to convict you, I don't think it'd be easy to characterize as a fifth amendment violation. You'd probably have the right to refuse to be questioned by a telepath, but as this story should demonstrate, even though the jury isn't permitted to draw an adverse inference from it, legally speaking, a prosecutor could probably just weave it into their questioning, and there's gonna be jury members who are thinking "if you're innocent, why did you refuse to prove it?"
 
A telepath's testimony isn't equivalent "X person said that Bob killed Alice," proffered to prove that Bob killed Alice. It'd be "at that time, I could sense that Bob wanted to kill Alice," which isn't the same thing.
I was more thinking about Claire (sorry I forget who the normal C person is who gets used in these examples) testifying "I could sense that Bob was feeling guilty about having killed Alice" or something along those lines, being offered as evidence that Bob did in fact kill Alice, analogous not to the statement "X person said that Bob killed Alice" but rather to the statement "Bob said that Bob killed Alice". IANAL obviously but I seem to recall there's an exception in hearsay for statements contrary to the speaker's interest... but the implied statement "I killed Alice" wouldn't have been voluntarily made by Bob to Claire.
 
Could they be a witness, however? Here's a thorny hypothetical: one of those can't-turn-it-off telepaths who is an actual material witness and still would be if they weren't a telepath. Could they testify?
Sure, just do it remotely, via video-link, without allowing them to get close enough to any other participants in the case that they might accidentally read information that could change their own testimony. Similar stuff has been used to protect the identity of anonymous witnesses, in cases where their testimony might place them in danger.

"I telepathically heard Alice's premeditated intent to murder Bob and frame Charlie" might not be admissible, but "I saw Alice stab Bob twenty times with a knife, with my own two eyes" still would be.

(It's possible that the defence might claim that the telepath not being physically in court meant that the defendant was not properly being "confronted with witnesses against them", per the 6th Amendment, but "to prevent undue telepathic influence on jurors" would be a valid reason to quash that — and if, as at this time in the story, mutants are looked down on, then you might even be able to use the "danger to witness" to allow them to testify anonymously too.)
 
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Presumably it would be testimony, the same way an eyewitness account doesn't require the light that hit a person's eyes.
What would you testify?
"They read my mind, I swear!"
"Ok. How do you know that?"
"Uh. ... Their cross examination was too well prepared?"

The problem with testifying against a telepath is that mind reading isn't something that can normally be witnessed and it doesn't normally leave evidence.

Could they be a witness, however? Here's a thorny hypothetical: one of those can't-turn-it-off telepaths who is an actual material witness and still would be if they weren't a telepath. Could they testify?

Why wouldn't they be able to? It doesn't matter if the witness hears anything they shouldn't, provided they don't testify on it, unless you want to ban telepaths from the courtroom (and being near the defendant or their council) in general.
 
It would depending on what kind of precision of thoughts the telepathy provides when not reading your surface thoughts and how good the telepath is at distinguishing the minitua of what he is observing in your mind. As long as the whole thing doesn't come with user manual in real time it can't be that much different than reading body language and micro expressions with pictures.
 
"How did the police find the murder weapon?"

"I told them where it was."

"How did you know where it was?"

"The Defendant's thoughts were full of a memory of dumping a pistol there when I served him coffee in the diner where I worked."

"So you called the tip line to report it, even though you yourself had not seen the Defendant actually leave the weapon there."

"Correct."
 
"How did the police find the murder weapon?"

"I told them where it was." "How should I know? Shouldn't you be asking who ever went looking for it?"
 
Work on the next chapter is underway, in the form of outlining and planning. Highlights include Kitty Pryde hyperventilating in a bathroom because holy crap anxiety, Noa squeaking something through off of binding precedent that cites DOOM, and the DA somehow being surprised when a teenager... is a teenager.
Hmm... With the exception of the prologue, everything has been exclusively from Noa's POV, which means that Noa would be present for Kitty's hyperventilation, presumably helping to reassure her. I fill like this might be a hint as to the particulars of how a teenager being a teenager will surprise DA Young.
 
Could they be a witness, however? Here's a thorny hypothetical: one of those can't-turn-it-off telepaths who is an actual material witness and still would be if they weren't a telepath. Could they testify?
Oof. I would say yes - with the full understanding that a telepath is just as capable of lying as any other material witness, and shouldn't be taken at face value. "I saw Bob kill Alice" is very different from "I read Bob's journal where he confessed to Alice's murder."
"How did the police find the murder weapon?"

"I told them where it was."

"How did you know where it was?"

"The Defendant's thoughts were full of a memory of dumping a pistol there when I served him coffee in the diner where I worked."

"So you called the tip line to report it, even though you yourself had not seen the Defendant actually leave the weapon there."

"Correct."
I would think that could be qualified as an informant telling the police where they saw a person stash something sketchily, but without any direct link between Bob and that weapon or that weapon and Alice's murder, except through other evidence.

I think the best place for telepaths in the legal system would be to commute sentencing after all evidence/etc. has gone through and the jury has decided, to prevent someone from being framed/railroaded.
 
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Something to keep in mind...

A Telepathic Mutant reading a persons mind without that persons permission is almost surely something that would qualify as Assault with a Mutant power. Which means not only is the Mutant likely to get arrested for doing it. But that the Fruit of the Poisonous Tree standards would end up being applied to any evidence found that way.
 
Something to keep in mind...

A Telepathic Mutant reading a persons mind without that persons permission is almost surely something that would qualify as Assault with a Mutant power. Which means not only is the Mutant likely to get arrested for doing it. But that the Fruit of the Poisonous Tree standards would end up being applied to any evidence found that way.
But there have also been telepaths, empaths, object readers who can't 'turn it off' and you're receiving everything in a radius or touch someone even accidentally
 
But there have also been telepaths, empaths, object readers who can't 'turn it off' and you're receiving everything in a radius or touch someone even accidentally.
Object readers would be fine, unless the "object" being read is another person...

And well, assuming actual actual inability and not "didn't bother training to do it" inability. It would depend on if this was before or after Power Suppressors are invented. (Though proving actual inability would likely be a chore in and of itself.)

If it was before, there would probably be a culpability and or due diligence standard attached to any time the powers ended up being used on another person against that other persons will.

If it was after, it would be as above, but with the extra addendum that the minimum of the standard would likely shift to "wearing a power suppressor".

It's why a Rogue case would be so interesting.
 
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If it was before, there would probably be a culpability and or due diligence standard attached to any time the powers ended up being used on another person against that other persons will.
That doesn't really work if it's always on and effects everyone in range, which is not an uncommon depiction for mind-reading: You just hear thoughts the same way you'd hear people talking around you.

Also, and this is important, how would anyone else know to enforce any of these rules?
 
That doesn't really work if it's always on and effects everyone in range, which is not an uncommon depiction for mind-reading: You just hear thoughts the same way you'd hear people talking around you.

Also, and this is important, how would anyone else know to enforce any of these rules?
It works, it just fucks those people over if they don't hide themselves away out of range of anybody else.

As to enforcement, unless law enforcement hired telepaths of their own, they would likely be looking at one of those "We can only get them if they admit to doing it" laws.

Of course... All this will inevitably lead up to a Super Power Registry... But contrary to what Marvel writers like to show that's not really a bad thing... After all, while there are exceptions most Super Powers are the equivalent of, or can be used as, deadly weapons... And that's not even counting the medical issues that come with having a different biology that most anyone would actually want kept track of so a random doctor doesn't proscribe something accidentally lethal... (There's a serious question how Superhero's can get medical insurance without commiting fraud here...)
 
It works, it just fucks those people over if they don't hide themselves away out of range of anybody else.

That level of arbitrarily screwing over a group of people for being born isn't what I'd call functional.


As to enforcement, unless law enforcement hired telepaths of their own, they would likely be looking at one of those "We can only get them if they admit to doing it" laws.

Or it'll allow for a lot of targeted harassment and require the defendants to somehow prove they did nothing wrong, in much the same way Texas's abortion ban shifts the burden of proof onto the defendant.

Given the fact that these laws would be targeting an already disliked minority, my money is on them following the second template.
 
Given how much mutants are used as an allegory for racial issues, here and in general, having this is probably going to be super constitutionally iffy. And, you know, Magneto will rightfully throw a fit and flatten the Pentagon or something.
Like many things in the legal sphere, the constitutionality would depend on the wording of whatever law ended up getting passed.

But a "Super Power" registration, so long as "Super Power" was properly defined, would likely pass strict scrutiny because there is compelling national interest to have a record of who has what Super Power.

It would also be hard to argue that such a thing was a de facto Mutant Registration, because not all mutant have what would likely be defined as Super Powers.


That level of arbitrarily screwing over a group of people for being born isn't what I'd call functional.

Or it'll allow for a lot of targeted harassment and require the defendants to somehow prove they did nothing wrong, in much the same way Texas's abortion ban shifts the burden of proof onto the defendant.

Given the fact that these laws would be targeting an already disliked minority, my money is on them following the second template.
A persons liberty to swing their fist, ends just where another persons nose begins.

While I am sure there would be legal exceptions made for the "First Activation" of a mutants powers given the random nature of such things. Once a person knows their powers however they are choosing how they act with them. So if those powers are something like "the uncontrolled mind reading of everyone within a dozen feet", well, they don't get to run through crowds of people and then go "totally didn't mean to read your mind bro" because they knowingly made the choice to put themselves in a position where they would read those other people's minds.

Though of course, that wouldn't just apply to mutants but anyone with Super Powers.

That said, you're absolutely right about such laws being easily abused to target Mutants. Which is why Noa taking the legal route for things is so important. Because if she can get Mutants added as a Protected Minority, a large fraction of those threats just go away.
 
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A persons liberty to swing their fist, ends just where another persons nose begins.

Doesn't really apply to this situation any more than it would apply to good hearing.

While I am sure there would be legal exceptions made for the "First Activation" of a mutants powers given the random nature of such things. Once a person knows their powers however they are choosing how they act with them. So if those powers are something like "the uncontrolled mind reading of everyone within a dozen feet", well, they don't get to run through crowds of people and then go "totally didn't mean to read your mind bro" because they knowingly made the choice to put themselves in a position where they would read those other people's minds.

Or you could not make laws that criminalize people for existing in society due to fundamental aspects of their existence.

That said, you're absolutely right about such laws being easily abused to target Mutants. Which is why Noa taking the legal route for things is so important. Because if she can get Mutants added as a Protected Minority, a large fraction of those threats just go away.

No, they don't? Especially not with laws like the ones you're proposing. How would protected minority status even begin to help with people alleging mindreading?
 
No, they don't? Especially not with laws like the ones you're proposing. How would protected minority status even begin to help with people alleging mindreading?
It would help with people making laws about mind reading, because it would (at least in principle) cause the courts to more aggressively question whether such laws insofar as they impact mutants are sufficiently justified and focused.
 
Doesn't really apply to this situation any more than it would apply to good hearing.

Or you could not make laws that criminalize people for existing in society due to fundamental aspects of their existence.

No, they don't? Especially not with laws like the ones you're proposing. How would protected minority status even begin to help with people alleging mindreading?
That's certainly an argument that the defense could make... But I rather doubt it's one any Judge or Jury would accept given the inside of a persons head is pretty much the definition of a private space...

Okay... Then what wording would you use to create a law that would allow such an exception while still penalizing the use of super powers on another person without their consent? And don't try "none", because that's not an option being given in this theoretical.


It would help with people making laws about mind reading, because it would (at least in principle) cause the courts to more aggressively question whether such laws insofar as they impact mutants are sufficiently justified and focused.
Yup, there's also the part where, at least under US law, it's not up to the defense to prove a defendant didn't do a thing, it's up to the prosecutor to prove they did.

So Average Joe Average can't just go "Ahhh! The Mutant's reading my mind arrest him!". The Mutant would have to in some way either admit "I read his mind without permission", or a legally credible third party who could detect such thing's would have to make an accusation of "That Mutant read that other persons mind without their permission".
 
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That's certainly an argument that the defense could make... But I rather doubt it's one any Judge or Jury would accept given the inside of a persons head is pretty much the definition of a private space...

So's a person's house and a good pair of ears will let you hear a conversation in there too.

Okay... Then what wording would you use to create a law that would allow such an exception while still penalizing the use of super powers on another person without their consent? And don't try "none", because that's not an option being given in this theoretical.
My entire position has been that the sweeping sort of criminalization you want is inherently a bad thing. "None" is the answer I'm going to give, because it's the only one that's consistent with what I've been saying and because I whole heartedly reject the premise of your theoretical.

Yup, there's also the part where, at least under US law, it's not up to the defense to prove a defendant didn't do a thing, it's up to the prosecutor to prove they did.

*Looks at Texas abortion ban.*
*Looks at civil asset forfiture.*

What you're describing is how the law is supposed to work, not how this type of law would actually be designed and implemented, in large part because the more honest implementation would render it powerless to accomplish anything it's hypothetical authors would want. Afterall, what's the point of a law criminalizing a scary other if you can't make a production of throwing them in jail?
 
So's a person's house and a good pair of ears will let you hear a conversation in there too.

My entire position has been that the sweeping sort of criminalization you want is inherently a bad thing. "None" is the answer I'm going to give, because it's the only one that's consistent with what I've been saying and because I whole heartedly reject the premise of your theoretical.

*Looks at Texas abortion ban.*
*Looks at civil asset forfiture.*

What you're describing is how the law is supposed to work, not how this type of law would actually be designed and implemented, in large part because the more honest implementation would render it powerless to accomplish anything it's hypothetical authors would want. Afterall, what's the point of a law criminalizing a scary other if you can't make a production of throwing them in jail?
Again... The defense can certainly try that argument with a Judge/Jury... But I wouldn't put much chance of them going along with it... (Also as an aside, that's not an argument you should even try to make since it could very easily get case law set that folds a persons mind into already existant privacy laws in a really bad way for Telepaths. You want hundred dollar Fines for accidental mind reading not multiple years of Jail Time...)

As to the rest, you have a choice of playing the game or getting steamrolled by it. Because there isn't a third option where people with Super Powers are just allowed to use those Super Powers with no new checks or balances being put in places.

And the way things work, those checks and balances will be put together under the framework of existing laws. We see that in this story where the Evil DA wants to get Mutant Powers ruled as Deadly Weapons. Which was almost surely the first step to the always horrible Mutant Registration act that would get passed in 1984...

So if you wanna short circuit that... You gotta get common sense laws and court rulings put in place first... That way when that horrible bill eventually comes up for a vote, even if it somehow passes, you can pile on the legal challenges, get a TRO almost immediately in place stopping it's enforcement, before having it struck down completely on legal grounds...
 
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Again... The defense can certainly try that argument with a Judge/Jury... But I wouldn't put much chance of them going along with it... (Also as an aside, that's not an argument you should even try to make since it could very easily get case law set that folds a persons mind into already existant privacy laws in a really bad way for Telepaths.)

It's not an argument for the court room, and I'm not sure why you'd interpret it that way. It's an argument against the type of law you're proposing ever being written in the first place.

As to the rest, you have a choice of playing the game or getting steamrolled by it. Because there isn't a third option where people with Super Powers are just allowed to use those Super Powers with no new checks or balances being put in places.

And the way things work, those checks and balances will be put together under the framework of existing laws. We see that in this story where the Evil DA wants to get Mutant Powers ruled as Deadly Weapons. Which was almost surely the first step to the always horrible Mutant Registration act that would get passed in 1984...

So if you wanna short circuit that... You gotta get common sense laws and court rulings put in place first... That way when that horrible bill eventually comes up for a vote, even if it somehow passes, you can pile on the legal challenges, get a TRO almost immediately in place stopping it's enforcement, before having it struck down completely on legal grounds...

So you assert, but I see no reason to agree with that assertion. There are a lot of problems with trying to write a law that criminalizes "Super Powers" in general, not the least of which is defining what a "Super Power" even is. It's also not helpful beyond the sort of fearmongering that should be avoided. Most uses of "Super Powers" that should be illegal are already illegal because they're just another means of doing something that's already illegal; you don't need separate laws to cover assaulting someone with a sledgehammer and a broadsword, so there's no reason to add a new law covering assaulting someone with a flamethrower. Even with the case in this story, the defense isn't based on whether pyrokinesis could be a deadly weapon, rather it focuses on the how it was employed and why.

In terms of mind reading, there probably shouldn't be a general law against it, both because it's impossible to prove and because you run into people who can't control it, but don't actually cause harm with it. You might reasonably right laws against more invasive forms of mind reading, that leave evidence, or explicitly banning the use of information gained from mind reading in certain circumstances, but that's about it. In most other cases the illegality should be a result of how the information gained was used, not just the fact that the mind reader overheard someone's thoughts.
 
It's not an argument for the court room, and I'm not sure why you'd interpret it that way. It's an argument against the type of law you're proposing ever being written in the first place.

So you assert, but I see no reason to agree with that assertion. There are a lot of problems with trying to write a law that criminalizes "Super Powers" in general, not the least of which is defining what a "Super Power" even is. It's also not helpful beyond the sort of fearmongering that should be avoided. Most uses of "Super Powers" that should be illegal are already illegal because they're just another means of doing something that's already illegal; you don't need separate laws to cover assaulting someone with a sledgehammer and a broadsword, so there's no reason to add a new law covering assaulting someone with a flamethrower. Even with the case in this story, the defense isn't based on whether pyrokinesis could be a deadly weapon, rather it focuses on the how it was employed and why.

In terms of mind reading, there probably shouldn't be a general law against it, both because it's impossible to prove and because you run into people who can't control it, but don't actually cause harm with it. You might reasonably right laws against more invasive forms of mind reading, that leave evidence, or explicitly banning the use of information gained from mind reading in certain circumstances, but that's about it. In most other cases the illegality should be a result of how the information gained was used, not just the fact that the mind reader overheard someone's thoughts.
Because the court room is where the arguments are going to have to be made...

One or more City, County, or States are going to pass stupid laws... One or more people are going to sue people with Super Powers, be it for personal injury or other things... And one or more Super Powered individuals are going to sue to stop a stupid law that already passed...

And we aren't talking about a law that criminalizes "Super Powers" in general... We are talking about laws that criminalizes the use of Super Powers on other people... (And yes, I'm simplifying a bit here because of course there would have to be Good Samaritan, Medical, and Given Permission protections.)

Further the reason why we don't need different laws covering assaulting people with a sledgehammer and assaulting people with a broadsword is because both of those things fall under various "weapon" definitions, which means attacking people with them is part of the broader category of "assault with a weapon" laws...

You do not want Super Powers, even specific types of Super Powers, to fall under the legal definition of "weapons"... Because really really bad things lie down that road... (I say specific types here because, due to the insanely varied nature of Super Powers, the most you could ever really do is slip them into board categories similar to what you get with "weapons" covering, well, weapons.)

As to reading a persons mind without permission... The vast majority of the public will demand laws against it once Telepaths actually being a thing fully sinks into the public conciseness... At which point at least some politicians will see an easy win to hold up on their campaign trails and pass feel good laws prohibiting it... As to proving such things... Yes... It would be hard... And regulated to pretty much the rare cases of either another telepath catching them in the act, the telepath in question telling people about it, or them in some way using information they couldn't have gotten through other means... But "feel good" laws aren't about completely stopping a certain type of act... They're about reassuring the public and making them feel like something is being done...

Though, given we are talking politicians it's very possible they may push anti-mind reading laws without public pressure to do it because they want to lower the risk of the public finding out about all their illegal/shady acts.
 
As to reading a persons mind without permission... The vast majority of the public will demand laws against it once Telepaths actually being a thing fully sinks into the public conciseness... At which point at least some politicians will see an easy win to hold up on their campaign trails and pass feel good laws prohibiting it... As to proving such things... Yes... It would be hard... And regulated to pretty much the rare cases of either another telepath catching them in the act, the telepath in question telling people about it, or them in some way using information they couldn't have gotten through other means... But "feel good" laws aren't about completely stopping a certain type of act... They're about reassuring the public and making them feel like something is being done...
And that's not necessarily a bad thing.

If you somehow managed to make the state of the law be that it's clearly legal to rifle through someone's brain at will, that's a substantial chunk less reason for people to tolerate the existence of people who might be able to do so. Being tried for witchcraft (so to speak) in an actual court has significant advantages over being 'tried' for witchcraft by an angry mob.
 
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