- Location
- Asia
So a bunch of soldiers went vigilante on the SS men running the death camps.
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What's the problem?
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What's the problem?
Merkels Operation Walküre
- Thread starter Tyr Anazasi
- Start date
- Timeline Post-1900 Supernatural
-
- Tags
- isot (isekai) germany
- Status
So how likely is war to come to South America? Specifically, Allied countries escalating and finally attacking those countries aligned with Germany and the new UN, with the backing of a US operating under the Munroe doctrine?
- Location
- Asia
I don't think they can afford to do this, not without diverting even more troops from the European Theater. And even if they do...well, they can certainly control the cities, but the countryside is going to turn into a bloody meatgrinder.
Darksoul2142
SUMMONER OF DARK DRAGON
- Location
- Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
(1) Given your suggestions you will end up with the Type 1 Ho-Ni tank destroyer. One modification I could suggest is to transform the gun shield into a turret (with limited traverse 10 deg left/right) which is effectively the Type 3 Ho-Ni III tank destroyer.
(2) But if you want a proper medium tank with a fully traversable turret and the Type 90 75mm then you would need a bigger turret ring which would require modifications to the chassis as well. This is how the Japanese ended up with the Type 3 Chi-Nu medium tank.
(3) On the other hand if you still want an upgrade to penetration in a tank with a 360 deg turret traverse the Japanese can convert their Chi-Ha tanks to the Type 2 Ho-I which had a Type 99 75mm gun (a modified Type 41 75mm mountain gun) which would still not be enough against T-34 as the HEAT (see page 68 of linked pdf) round only goes through 76mm of armour plate. That would be barely enough to penetrate a T-34's turret front, unable to penetrate hull front and easily penetrating the sides or rear (turret and hull). The T-34-85 (d frontally can't be penetrated by the gun as the turret armour has been upgraded. This will not be good as the OTL Invasion of Manchuria (Soviet Edition) had significant number of T-34-85s going up against the Japanese. Thus, a better HEAT round is required.
(4) The Japanese could try producing as many Chi-Nu as they can while converting their Chi-Ha tanks to the Type 1 Ho-Ni and the Type 2 Ho-I. The Chi-Nu tanks would be used as an offensive tank along supplemented by the Type 2 Ho-I with the Type 1 Ho-Ni in defence and a limited attack role.
(5) Please memory check me because my memories of later chapters are quite faded. Given that Stalin never mentioned that an armistice was to be with Japan, Stalin would still find an opportunity to attack Japan and remove them from Manchuria.
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- Location
- Hamburg, Germany
Any attack of Stalin on Japan would have consequences in Europe as well. The Germans would restart the war and try to get rid of him forever. Considering the deal he will get, he won't do this. At least not now.
- Location
- Asia
The Ho-Ni has a turret though. What we came up with is essentially a Japanese Hetzer.
With regard to a proper medium tank, the Chi-Nu would suffice. As previously-mentioned, Japan has limited industry. Best to concentrate resources on a few, good, all-around models than spread it around. And it's not like tanks are as important in the Pacific as they are in Europe and North Africa.
8,8cm Kwk 42 in a Panther turret doesn't work. The larger breech and stronger recoil impulse is going to slam the breech into the backside of the turret. And a Jagdpanzer IV with that gun would be a nightmare to operate, too. The Jagdpanzer IV/70 with the Panthers' long 75mm was already front-heavy enough that it caused serious issues with the Pz IV drivetrain and had problems maneuvering due to the long barrel that close to the ground.
On another note, the Soviets not being able to fix railroad junctions at this point is also kinda ASB-ish. They were historically starting to significantly expand the Trans-Siberian around this time to make their eventual operations against the Japanese in autumn '45 possible. Repurposing that effort to keep the railway lines fixed wouldn't be too hard.
All that means is you have to open up the bombs and replace the electronics on the low end. On the high end, "scrap material" in this case means enough weapons-grade plutonium that you can build your own bombs out of it in short order. Like, we're talking perhaps a week to ten days at a maximum here. This stuff is trivial for an industrialsied first world nation, it's always been the production of weapons-grade fissible material that took the majority of time and effort with building nukes.
On another note, the Soviets not being able to fix railroad junctions at this point is also kinda ASB-ish. They were historically starting to significantly expand the Trans-Siberian around this time to make their eventual operations against the Japanese in autumn '45 possible. Repurposing that effort to keep the railway lines fixed wouldn't be too hard.
All that means is you have to open up the bombs and replace the electronics on the low end. On the high end, "scrap material" in this case means enough weapons-grade plutonium that you can build your own bombs out of it in short order. Like, we're talking perhaps a week to ten days at a maximum here. This stuff is trivial for an industrialsied first world nation, it's always been the production of weapons-grade fissible material that took the majority of time and effort with building nukes.
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- Location
- Hamburg, Germany
I think #Cortz9 does know, what he does. However, there was the so called Schmalturm:
Panther tank - Wikipedia
Panther tank - Wikipedia
Darksoul2142
SUMMONER OF DARK DRAGON
- Location
- Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
So use the Ho-Ni for tank destroyer duties (Chi-Ha is plentiful) with the Chi-Nu forming the core of the Japanese offensive tanks. Simple and standardised, good ideas Jaenera.
Yeah an 88mm L/71 is definitely not going to fit in a Panther (flat face) turret but can potentially fit inside the schmalturm turret that was designed for the Panther II.
Slightly off-topic, do you think development of an APDS or APFSDS round (sorry I am obsessed with APDS/APFSDS
) for the 75mm KwK 42 will negate the need for fitting the 88mm KwK 43 into the Panther upgrade? Even a steel penetrating rod should (imo) prove to be as deadly as the 88mm KwK 43's round at the least.
- Location
- Porto, Portugal
Also to consider next generation HEAT rounds - more efficient than the ones in use by that time by a lot. These can be used in the myriads of 75 and 88 AT / tank guns, given the DT weapons an extra lethality..
Chapter II, Part 31: Bambule!
- Location
- Hamburg, Germany
Near Sagan, Lower Silesia, September 15th 1944, 14:38
Perhaps for the very first time in her life, Peggy Knobloch was working hard. Ever since she could remember her family had been poor. However, she had long ago decided that she wouldn't be content with continuing to live this way; no, she would be something better. And because of that she tried to begin a new life, but as she had learned something properly she didn't make it very far. After some time, she fell into a crowd of boys and girls, who came from "better" homes but had decided to leave it all behind for something 'better' and 'purer'. They called it the 'Autonomous way'. They were on the far-left side of the political spectrum, yet Peggy didn't really buy their Marxism, Leninism, Maoism or what else -ism, she only cared for the family she had found with these people. She had found something like a home. Throwing stones during some protest marches was fun, but she never really saw the need for it.
Then the Event occurred. And someone – Peggy assumed it had been Peter – got the idea to burn some trucks to show the capitalist oppressors that even in this new world they shouldn't feel save, which they did: The Bundeswehr was only a tool to keep the proletariat in check, anyway. But they had been caught, and Peggy, although she had only supported her friends by being present, was sentenced to three years prison. It wasn't her first sentence, but with the war happening in the background it was made harder. Then she decided to work for two years in a so called Baueinheit to build roads and so on. She thought that this would be preferable to just sit around in a prison cell. Additionally, she would be released much earlier.
"Üffes, please help me with that rock,"she asked another inmate. She still didn't get his name was Yves and pronounced Ief. He was also from the left scene and she had seen him at some "Bambule" in the early days of the Event, but the police acted much harsher. They had even stormed the Rote Flora in Hamburg ending its yearlong occupation, resulting in five deaths, including one police officer.
And while the left radical resistance died down shortly after as many were either too shocked or acted too soon for a real campaign, the Nazis were hiding for the time being. As far as Peggy was aware, the Nazis were split into two groups: One group thinking that for now war had to be won and afterwards they would then proceed getting power by popular vote when the population saw that theirs was the way to go in these uncertain times. Then there was the second group unable to even form a more coherent strategy than simply burning down offices of the Left or ganging up on foreigners in groups. Much to the relief of everyone, a real Nazi terror organization with assassinations of politicians had not yet developed. However, two attempts to form such groups had already been busted by the authorities.
For Peggy chances were good she would get a place in a program and receive professional training after the war, when the program was to end.
Perhaps for the very first time in her life, Peggy Knobloch was working hard. Ever since she could remember her family had been poor. However, she had long ago decided that she wouldn't be content with continuing to live this way; no, she would be something better. And because of that she tried to begin a new life, but as she had learned something properly she didn't make it very far. After some time, she fell into a crowd of boys and girls, who came from "better" homes but had decided to leave it all behind for something 'better' and 'purer'. They called it the 'Autonomous way'. They were on the far-left side of the political spectrum, yet Peggy didn't really buy their Marxism, Leninism, Maoism or what else -ism, she only cared for the family she had found with these people. She had found something like a home. Throwing stones during some protest marches was fun, but she never really saw the need for it.
Then the Event occurred. And someone – Peggy assumed it had been Peter – got the idea to burn some trucks to show the capitalist oppressors that even in this new world they shouldn't feel save, which they did: The Bundeswehr was only a tool to keep the proletariat in check, anyway. But they had been caught, and Peggy, although she had only supported her friends by being present, was sentenced to three years prison. It wasn't her first sentence, but with the war happening in the background it was made harder. Then she decided to work for two years in a so called Baueinheit to build roads and so on. She thought that this would be preferable to just sit around in a prison cell. Additionally, she would be released much earlier.
"Üffes, please help me with that rock,"she asked another inmate. She still didn't get his name was Yves and pronounced Ief. He was also from the left scene and she had seen him at some "Bambule" in the early days of the Event, but the police acted much harsher. They had even stormed the Rote Flora in Hamburg ending its yearlong occupation, resulting in five deaths, including one police officer.
And while the left radical resistance died down shortly after as many were either too shocked or acted too soon for a real campaign, the Nazis were hiding for the time being. As far as Peggy was aware, the Nazis were split into two groups: One group thinking that for now war had to be won and afterwards they would then proceed getting power by popular vote when the population saw that theirs was the way to go in these uncertain times. Then there was the second group unable to even form a more coherent strategy than simply burning down offices of the Left or ganging up on foreigners in groups. Much to the relief of everyone, a real Nazi terror organization with assassinations of politicians had not yet developed. However, two attempts to form such groups had already been busted by the authorities.
For Peggy chances were good she would get a place in a program and receive professional training after the war, when the program was to end.
Chapter II, Part 32: A furious General
- Location
- Hamburg, Germany
Hindenburg Barracks, Munster, October 2nd 1944, 18:55
General Dwight D. Eisenhower sat on the couch in his room in the barracks. Since he had been captured during the ill-fated invasion at Boulogne the Germans had treated him well enough. Today they had shown him the new panzer designs here at Munster. Even the German Minister for Defence had sought to talk to him and tomorrow he would even meet Chancellor Merkel in Berlin. He had not believed this story about time traveling Germans at first, but now he certainly did. How could the US even hope to defeat such a behemoth? He was torn out of his thoughts when someone knocked on the door. When he beckoned the other person to come in, he saw that it was George S. Patton:
IKE: Come in, George.
PAT: Hello, Ike. I need to talk with you.
IKE: You look angry.
PAT: That´s because I am angry. Aren't you? Our superiors lied to us. They simply let us die! I...
IKE makes some hand gestures, indicating that someone might be listening in on their talk.
PAT: Pah, let them listen, I don't care! Let them hear what I want to say. Or better let the whole world hear! It's, like the Germans say, scheißegal, if they hear it or not. Our politicians are idiots or criminals or both. I can't believe they sent us out into this mess, even when they knew it better.
IKE: Apparently, they didn't believe the tales of time travel. We didn't either.
PAT: Yeah, but they had access to much more intel. And although you might have had a point at the beginning, they´re still carrying on with this idiocrasy. Our boys don't have a chance. Not a single chance.
IKE (sighs): Yes, you're right. From the start, we had no real chance at winning. I recapitulated all the possibilities we had. The Germans were alarmed and knew of all our plans. Either Normandy, like it was planned, or Boulogne. We chose the latter, because we knew that the Germans knew of the plans for the Normandy. I was against it from the start, because I didn't believe that Boulogne could succeed. The fact that we succeed at Normandy in the alternative timeline is a huge surprise. Anyway, I was ordered to attack, so I did.
PAT: So did I. So, we both did. And what happened?
IKE: I was allowed to take a look at the German defence plans. They knew every single detail of our plan – hell, they had whole books about it with the original orders! – and we walked right into their trap. It would have been wiser to wait.
PAT: Yeah, I saw those plans as well. We had no chance at all. But now they know about the truth. And still they don't change their tactics.
IKE, (thoughtfully): Yes. They don't adapt.
PAT: And the problem is, we don't have a chance. Look at those tanks: This Leopard 2 tank can drive and fire simultaneously. Sometimes one shot can take out two tanks. A single shell! Look at this photograph: Two Russian T-34 destroyed with a single shell! Or this: Two Shermans in a row and a single shot. Both Shermans can only be used as scrap metal now. And this new SPG, tank howitzer 2000. One of them can replace a whole battery! Or these guided missiles. A...
IKE: I know. But that is not the worst. They are upgrading their DT equipment as well. Look at the new Tiger III, new motor, 10,5 cm gun. Or the Panther F with the 8,8 cm gun. These tanks are superior to everything we have. And they are not from the future. The M-4 is hopelessly outclassed.
PAT: It was a big mistake not to build the M-26
IKE: Indeed. However, even that would not change much.
PAT: You´re right. The M-26 is inferior to everything the Germans produce. And designing and producing a new model would take years. Time we simply do not have.
IKE: They have an advantage of 70 years! Everything we develop in the foreseeable future is not adequate.
PAT: Why don't the politicians just make peace and call it a day? It is really...
IKE: Yes, I think so. They see the very evil in Germany and want to fight it to the bitter end. They want to destroy Germany, now even more so, as the Germans possesses technological marvels they all desire. Hell, if I could steal a Leopard for our boys, I´d do it in a heartbeat. They think they can't afford to let Germany win the war, because it would only become stronger than ever before.
PAT: They have to see the Germans can't be beaten!
IKE: Really? I doubt it. The Germans do have an Achilles heel. They lack the resources for prolonged warfare. We can outproduce them. And we have more men.
PAT: Yes, true. But the Germans could replace the entire Eastern Army. And I strongly belief the Soviets are in dire straits after the last losses. They can't afford them. Another defeat like this...
IKE: I agree. Either we help them or they make peace.
PAT: Do you think Stalin will accept help?
IKE: No. And it would be better to get rid of him as fast as possible.
PAT: Yes. I totally agree.
IKE: I don't see the Germans are a danger for us. They are democrats and they don't care about the Far East or America.
PAT: That could change, though. And democratic nation or not, there are too many people in the US who want to destroy Germany.
IKE: Any attempt we make to change that is likely counterproductive. We would lose all of our credibility, especially since we´re stuck here and can't defend ourselves.
PAT: I will nonetheless send a letter to these idiots and tell them my opinion. They are killing our men for nothing! They could get a good deal from the German government but with every day they continue it will only get worse.
IKE: They´ll try to drag your reputation through the mud.
PAT: I'm George S. Patton. I'm a general and not a son of bitch like this Roosevelt. Or such a Jew like Morgenthau. But you! You could become a politician. I would support you.
IKE: Let´s not be hasty here.
PAT: We´re gonna be 'guests' here for quite a while still, so there is no hurry. These damn politicians. They could have destroyed Stalin back in 1945 in the original timeline. Churchill was ready. We were ready. We could have launched this operation Unthinkable. We...
Someone was knocking on the door. A German Hauptmann entered the room: "Sirs, the dinner is ready. If you're so kind to follow me?"
General Dwight D. Eisenhower sat on the couch in his room in the barracks. Since he had been captured during the ill-fated invasion at Boulogne the Germans had treated him well enough. Today they had shown him the new panzer designs here at Munster. Even the German Minister for Defence had sought to talk to him and tomorrow he would even meet Chancellor Merkel in Berlin. He had not believed this story about time traveling Germans at first, but now he certainly did. How could the US even hope to defeat such a behemoth? He was torn out of his thoughts when someone knocked on the door. When he beckoned the other person to come in, he saw that it was George S. Patton:
IKE: Come in, George.
PAT: Hello, Ike. I need to talk with you.
IKE: You look angry.
PAT: That´s because I am angry. Aren't you? Our superiors lied to us. They simply let us die! I...
IKE makes some hand gestures, indicating that someone might be listening in on their talk.
PAT: Pah, let them listen, I don't care! Let them hear what I want to say. Or better let the whole world hear! It's, like the Germans say, scheißegal, if they hear it or not. Our politicians are idiots or criminals or both. I can't believe they sent us out into this mess, even when they knew it better.
IKE: Apparently, they didn't believe the tales of time travel. We didn't either.
PAT: Yeah, but they had access to much more intel. And although you might have had a point at the beginning, they´re still carrying on with this idiocrasy. Our boys don't have a chance. Not a single chance.
IKE (sighs): Yes, you're right. From the start, we had no real chance at winning. I recapitulated all the possibilities we had. The Germans were alarmed and knew of all our plans. Either Normandy, like it was planned, or Boulogne. We chose the latter, because we knew that the Germans knew of the plans for the Normandy. I was against it from the start, because I didn't believe that Boulogne could succeed. The fact that we succeed at Normandy in the alternative timeline is a huge surprise. Anyway, I was ordered to attack, so I did.
PAT: So did I. So, we both did. And what happened?
IKE: I was allowed to take a look at the German defence plans. They knew every single detail of our plan – hell, they had whole books about it with the original orders! – and we walked right into their trap. It would have been wiser to wait.
PAT: Yeah, I saw those plans as well. We had no chance at all. But now they know about the truth. And still they don't change their tactics.
IKE, (thoughtfully): Yes. They don't adapt.
PAT: And the problem is, we don't have a chance. Look at those tanks: This Leopard 2 tank can drive and fire simultaneously. Sometimes one shot can take out two tanks. A single shell! Look at this photograph: Two Russian T-34 destroyed with a single shell! Or this: Two Shermans in a row and a single shot. Both Shermans can only be used as scrap metal now. And this new SPG, tank howitzer 2000. One of them can replace a whole battery! Or these guided missiles. A...
IKE: I know. But that is not the worst. They are upgrading their DT equipment as well. Look at the new Tiger III, new motor, 10,5 cm gun. Or the Panther F with the 8,8 cm gun. These tanks are superior to everything we have. And they are not from the future. The M-4 is hopelessly outclassed.
PAT: It was a big mistake not to build the M-26
IKE: Indeed. However, even that would not change much.
PAT: You´re right. The M-26 is inferior to everything the Germans produce. And designing and producing a new model would take years. Time we simply do not have.
IKE: They have an advantage of 70 years! Everything we develop in the foreseeable future is not adequate.
PAT: Why don't the politicians just make peace and call it a day? It is really...
IKE: Yes, I think so. They see the very evil in Germany and want to fight it to the bitter end. They want to destroy Germany, now even more so, as the Germans possesses technological marvels they all desire. Hell, if I could steal a Leopard for our boys, I´d do it in a heartbeat. They think they can't afford to let Germany win the war, because it would only become stronger than ever before.
PAT: They have to see the Germans can't be beaten!
IKE: Really? I doubt it. The Germans do have an Achilles heel. They lack the resources for prolonged warfare. We can outproduce them. And we have more men.
PAT: Yes, true. But the Germans could replace the entire Eastern Army. And I strongly belief the Soviets are in dire straits after the last losses. They can't afford them. Another defeat like this...
IKE: I agree. Either we help them or they make peace.
PAT: Do you think Stalin will accept help?
IKE: No. And it would be better to get rid of him as fast as possible.
PAT: Yes. I totally agree.
IKE: I don't see the Germans are a danger for us. They are democrats and they don't care about the Far East or America.
PAT: That could change, though. And democratic nation or not, there are too many people in the US who want to destroy Germany.
IKE: Any attempt we make to change that is likely counterproductive. We would lose all of our credibility, especially since we´re stuck here and can't defend ourselves.
PAT: I will nonetheless send a letter to these idiots and tell them my opinion. They are killing our men for nothing! They could get a good deal from the German government but with every day they continue it will only get worse.
IKE: They´ll try to drag your reputation through the mud.
PAT: I'm George S. Patton. I'm a general and not a son of bitch like this Roosevelt. Or such a Jew like Morgenthau. But you! You could become a politician. I would support you.
IKE: Let´s not be hasty here.
PAT: We´re gonna be 'guests' here for quite a while still, so there is no hurry. These damn politicians. They could have destroyed Stalin back in 1945 in the original timeline. Churchill was ready. We were ready. We could have launched this operation Unthinkable. We...
Someone was knocking on the door. A German Hauptmann entered the room: "Sirs, the dinner is ready. If you're so kind to follow me?"
German Panzer Projects II
- Location
- Hamburg, Germany
Panzerkampfwagen V Ausf. H Panther II
Based upon the Leo I and the E-50 the Panther II has better armour than the Leo I and the same engine and gun. The other hybrid, VIII Löwe, is heavier and more costly, but even better protected. In both cases many parts are identical. Modern electronics included. In the end it was decided to build only a first batch of 500 Panther II as a stopgap until the Löwe could be produced.
Panzerkampfwagen VI, Ausf. D Tiger III, Siberian Tiger
Version C had been planned but was soon skipped, as it was clear the Panther II and Löwe would get the same gun. Therefore the Version D was developed to include a 12,8 cm gun. Modern electronics and the engines of a Leopard 2 make this beast as fast as a medium tank. In contrast to the King Tiger the armour is thinner, but of better steel. Driver seat is in the centre of the front hull. Crew reduced to 4 persons. With the production of the Leopard II sped up the E-75 variant was cancelled. The Siberian Tiger would be the last heavy tank developed. It should give the army firepower as long as the number of Leo II is too low and production not sufficient. Once that happened, production would run out. First batch of 500 Version C re-ordered as D, 2nd batch of another 500 tanks ordered as well, with an option of another 1.000 (likely not realized).
Note: The Tiger III variant Ike and Patton saw was the Prototype of the version C. The decision to skip this version was done slightly earlier.
Again thanks to Cortz#9 for the images.
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Chapter II, Part 33: One small Step
- Location
- Hamburg, Germany
Peenemünde, October 3rd 1944, 11:48:
Wernher von Braun stood in the command bunker situated near the rocketry testing ground. On June 20th an Aggregat 4 rocket had reached 175 km height and therefore had been the first man-made object in space. Since the Event much had happened: At first he had been arrested, but he had been released shortly after, in equal parts because he knew how to work people to his advantage and also because – as it turned out – he was deemed necessary for the German rocketry and space programs. Indeed, he had been appointed as head of the German Space program of the DLR with. Prof. Oberth as his advisor. And although they had to learn much first, they learned quickly. Many German firms had been producing integral parts for space agencies all over the world before the Event, including engines and such. Those developments hadn't grinded to halt; no, instead new line-ups of rockets were to be made public soon.
But today von Braun wanted to test technology. As the Aggregat 4 was available in large numbers and cheap to produce, they were used in many of his tests, including today. The mission was to send a small satellite into orbit. It would be nothing else but a satellite with a sender to send signals to all radio operators on Earth. With that step, the German government hoped to once again show their technological advancement to the world and to impress the population of neutral and enemy states in the hope of shortening the war.
The countdown started. Zehn...Neun...Acht...Sieben...Sechs...Fünf...Vier...Drei...Zwei...Eins...Zündung.
The rocket launched into the air. Only a little while later the rocket had reached her destination and launched the 15 kg satellite 'Hündchen' (small dog).
Soon von Braun was notified by Oberpfaffenhofen that the launch had been a success. For about two weeks the satellite would send signals to Earth before it would burn to scraps when it re-entered atmosphere. Von Braun knew very well that this was only a small step compared to what was still to come. And he also knew his work was only funded because the German government wanted to develop an ICBM while using their civilian satellites as smokescreen to hide it from their own citizens. Hidden like the fact that also several dozen Aggregat 4 were secretly prepared to launch chemical weapons once the WAllies would use WMD. As a first step to retaliate. Such an attack would be nearly as deadly as a nuclear attack.
To Von Braun all that didn't matter much. He wanted to fly to the Moon, spread humanity all over the solar system and if London had to be reduced to a wasteland to make that happen, then so be it.
Wernher von Braun stood in the command bunker situated near the rocketry testing ground. On June 20th an Aggregat 4 rocket had reached 175 km height and therefore had been the first man-made object in space. Since the Event much had happened: At first he had been arrested, but he had been released shortly after, in equal parts because he knew how to work people to his advantage and also because – as it turned out – he was deemed necessary for the German rocketry and space programs. Indeed, he had been appointed as head of the German Space program of the DLR with. Prof. Oberth as his advisor. And although they had to learn much first, they learned quickly. Many German firms had been producing integral parts for space agencies all over the world before the Event, including engines and such. Those developments hadn't grinded to halt; no, instead new line-ups of rockets were to be made public soon.
But today von Braun wanted to test technology. As the Aggregat 4 was available in large numbers and cheap to produce, they were used in many of his tests, including today. The mission was to send a small satellite into orbit. It would be nothing else but a satellite with a sender to send signals to all radio operators on Earth. With that step, the German government hoped to once again show their technological advancement to the world and to impress the population of neutral and enemy states in the hope of shortening the war.
The countdown started. Zehn...Neun...Acht...Sieben...Sechs...Fünf...Vier...Drei...Zwei...Eins...Zündung.
The rocket launched into the air. Only a little while later the rocket had reached her destination and launched the 15 kg satellite 'Hündchen' (small dog).
Soon von Braun was notified by Oberpfaffenhofen that the launch had been a success. For about two weeks the satellite would send signals to Earth before it would burn to scraps when it re-entered atmosphere. Von Braun knew very well that this was only a small step compared to what was still to come. And he also knew his work was only funded because the German government wanted to develop an ICBM while using their civilian satellites as smokescreen to hide it from their own citizens. Hidden like the fact that also several dozen Aggregat 4 were secretly prepared to launch chemical weapons once the WAllies would use WMD. As a first step to retaliate. Such an attack would be nearly as deadly as a nuclear attack.
To Von Braun all that didn't matter much. He wanted to fly to the Moon, spread humanity all over the solar system and if London had to be reduced to a wasteland to make that happen, then so be it.
Chapter II, Part 34: The Battle of Kiew, Part I
- Location
- Hamburg, Germany
Kiew, October 15th-November 5th 1944
Letters from Kiew by Valentin Alexandrowitsch Sjuganin
October 12th:
Dear Swetlana,
I can't tell you where I am, but tomorrow we are going to go to the front. Finally! Since the death of Pjotr I longed to see this day. Finally, I can extract revenge for my brother and fight those damned Nazis. Finally, I´m being given the chance to defend Mother Russia. I will take care of Andrej, I promise, as much as I can do...
Your Valentin
October 13th:
...We're on the way to Kiew. The Nazis have forces our troops to fall back behind the Dnjepr. Odessa was encircled and surrendered today. It is a shame! We need to attack. However, the weather is bad and prohibits any offensive actions on a large scale. So, we shall defend Kiew. The generals say we are safe behind the Dnjepr, but we won't give up half of the city. No, we won't! We will fight and hold the city entirely. And when weather is better we'll drive the Nazis out of Russia. To Berlin!...
October 13th
Post scriptum:
Swetlana, I can't express how sad I am to give you the news of your brother's death. We were brought to our positions near the front when this thrice damned German plane appeared. It was more a flying gun as far as I remember; an ugly thing. A rocket destroyed some of the trucks and forced us to halt our advance. We were ordered to take cover, so we jumped out of our truck. I thought Andrej was behind me but when I turned around he was just standing there on the road, staring at the plane. I ran to him and tried to drag him off the road, I really did, but in this moment the plane came back and strafed the column. Even the mighty T-34s were destroyed by its gun spiting fire upon us. The last round fired hit Andrej only a second before we reached cover. We buried him next to the street and marked the grave. I wish I could have done more, I truly do. If I had only been more cautious.
October 14th:
...We just had arrived at our position when we were ordered to attack. I never saw so big and mighty tanks. Nearly all of the ordinance we fired was useless. And then their counter attacks commenced. We had to retreat. Many more of us are dead by now. Alexej, Wladimir, Pjotr. I still think about Andrej. Why didn't he move...
October 15th:
...We are back in Kiew. We were ordered to hold the suburbs of the city on the Eastern bank of the Dnjepr. And then the Germans came. As if they knew where we were, they targeted us before we could really react. I could escape and retreat to our line. The suburbs are lost...
October 16th:
...Now we are in a house bloc, which can't be stormed so easily. And indeed, we could repel one Nazi attack already.
October 17th:
I am on the run. They came in the night. We had no chances, they knew, where we were. The doors were thrown open, a grenade was thrown in and then they entered and killed the survivors with their guns. I was able to take cover on the balcony and then escape via the fire escape. Halfway down there was a German soldier waiting, as surprised at seeing me as I was at seeing him. I was faster and killed him. He somehow looked like Andrej. He couldn't have been much older. Now I am looking for a new unit while hoping that I won´t get caught by the Germans...
October 18th:
I found several survivors of other units. We could hide in the ruins of the city, but we are still on the wrong side of the river. Tonight we´ll try to go east...
October 19th:
Finally, we managed to reach our troops again. I could catch some sleep, but now we have to consolidate the position.
October 20th:
We got the order to make a counter attack on the Germans. I don't think it is the brightest idea...
P.S.: I made it back. It was a catastrophe. The Germans seemed to know, what we wanted to do and gave us an especially warm welcome. The man before me was hit in the head by a single shot. The whole head exploded. Literally.
October 21st:
We got a new political officer. He threatened to shoot anyone who retreats again. He ordered us to start another counter attack...
P.S.: The results were very similar as to our previous attempts. The Germans in their positions could kill us before we were really in range. We retreated after nearly half of our unit was picked off by the Germans. The PO was so pissed. He shot on of the soldiers. Next time he threatened he´d order the whole unit to be shot for insubordination.
October 22nd:
The Germans attacked again. And again, we had to retreat. And I fear we need a new PO, as the one we had was 'killed by the Germans'. He was raving about us being cowards and threatening to kill all of us, so one of the guys put a bullet in his head. We all swore to keep it a secret. We finally reached a new point, where we could put up a new defence line.
October 23rd:
The Germans attacked again. Not us, but the units next to us. We could do little to assist them...
October 24th:
The Germans. Again. And again. And again! We tried to defend, but in the end, it was futile. We lost the last way back to our line, as the last bridge over the Dnjepr was destroyed by our comrades. We're about 30 and currently trying to find another way to the other side of the river. It is too cold to swim and we can't build a boat. But a float, perhaps. If we find material, that is. And if the Germans don't catch us.
October 25th:
Again, we had contact with the Germans. And afterwards we are now down to eight. They did not take any PoWs. However, as we did the very same I even can't blame them. It is a fight to the last man. And it seems we're losing...
October 26th:
I love you. I always did. However, it seems this is meant to be my last letter. Not only is this the last piece of paper I have, but I am alone now. We were eight yesterday. Iwan stepped on a mine and was torn apart in front of our eyes. Three others were killed by a tank gun. Another one became victim of a sniper. Anatol and Mischa were killed while on the run by the Germans. I´m the last one. I haven't slept since the day before yesterday and had nothing to eat since then, too. I am tired and hungry. Furthermore, I lost my gun. I got a rifle instead but I have only a single round left. I will use it wisely. I love you. Adieu.
Letters from Kiew by Valentin Alexandrowitsch Sjuganin
October 12th:
Dear Swetlana,
I can't tell you where I am, but tomorrow we are going to go to the front. Finally! Since the death of Pjotr I longed to see this day. Finally, I can extract revenge for my brother and fight those damned Nazis. Finally, I´m being given the chance to defend Mother Russia. I will take care of Andrej, I promise, as much as I can do...
Your Valentin
October 13th:
...We're on the way to Kiew. The Nazis have forces our troops to fall back behind the Dnjepr. Odessa was encircled and surrendered today. It is a shame! We need to attack. However, the weather is bad and prohibits any offensive actions on a large scale. So, we shall defend Kiew. The generals say we are safe behind the Dnjepr, but we won't give up half of the city. No, we won't! We will fight and hold the city entirely. And when weather is better we'll drive the Nazis out of Russia. To Berlin!...
October 13th
Post scriptum:
Swetlana, I can't express how sad I am to give you the news of your brother's death. We were brought to our positions near the front when this thrice damned German plane appeared. It was more a flying gun as far as I remember; an ugly thing. A rocket destroyed some of the trucks and forced us to halt our advance. We were ordered to take cover, so we jumped out of our truck. I thought Andrej was behind me but when I turned around he was just standing there on the road, staring at the plane. I ran to him and tried to drag him off the road, I really did, but in this moment the plane came back and strafed the column. Even the mighty T-34s were destroyed by its gun spiting fire upon us. The last round fired hit Andrej only a second before we reached cover. We buried him next to the street and marked the grave. I wish I could have done more, I truly do. If I had only been more cautious.
October 14th:
...We just had arrived at our position when we were ordered to attack. I never saw so big and mighty tanks. Nearly all of the ordinance we fired was useless. And then their counter attacks commenced. We had to retreat. Many more of us are dead by now. Alexej, Wladimir, Pjotr. I still think about Andrej. Why didn't he move...
October 15th:
...We are back in Kiew. We were ordered to hold the suburbs of the city on the Eastern bank of the Dnjepr. And then the Germans came. As if they knew where we were, they targeted us before we could really react. I could escape and retreat to our line. The suburbs are lost...
October 16th:
...Now we are in a house bloc, which can't be stormed so easily. And indeed, we could repel one Nazi attack already.
October 17th:
I am on the run. They came in the night. We had no chances, they knew, where we were. The doors were thrown open, a grenade was thrown in and then they entered and killed the survivors with their guns. I was able to take cover on the balcony and then escape via the fire escape. Halfway down there was a German soldier waiting, as surprised at seeing me as I was at seeing him. I was faster and killed him. He somehow looked like Andrej. He couldn't have been much older. Now I am looking for a new unit while hoping that I won´t get caught by the Germans...
October 18th:
I found several survivors of other units. We could hide in the ruins of the city, but we are still on the wrong side of the river. Tonight we´ll try to go east...
October 19th:
Finally, we managed to reach our troops again. I could catch some sleep, but now we have to consolidate the position.
October 20th:
We got the order to make a counter attack on the Germans. I don't think it is the brightest idea...
P.S.: I made it back. It was a catastrophe. The Germans seemed to know, what we wanted to do and gave us an especially warm welcome. The man before me was hit in the head by a single shot. The whole head exploded. Literally.
October 21st:
We got a new political officer. He threatened to shoot anyone who retreats again. He ordered us to start another counter attack...
P.S.: The results were very similar as to our previous attempts. The Germans in their positions could kill us before we were really in range. We retreated after nearly half of our unit was picked off by the Germans. The PO was so pissed. He shot on of the soldiers. Next time he threatened he´d order the whole unit to be shot for insubordination.
October 22nd:
The Germans attacked again. And again, we had to retreat. And I fear we need a new PO, as the one we had was 'killed by the Germans'. He was raving about us being cowards and threatening to kill all of us, so one of the guys put a bullet in his head. We all swore to keep it a secret. We finally reached a new point, where we could put up a new defence line.
October 23rd:
The Germans attacked again. Not us, but the units next to us. We could do little to assist them...
October 24th:
The Germans. Again. And again. And again! We tried to defend, but in the end, it was futile. We lost the last way back to our line, as the last bridge over the Dnjepr was destroyed by our comrades. We're about 30 and currently trying to find another way to the other side of the river. It is too cold to swim and we can't build a boat. But a float, perhaps. If we find material, that is. And if the Germans don't catch us.
October 25th:
Again, we had contact with the Germans. And afterwards we are now down to eight. They did not take any PoWs. However, as we did the very same I even can't blame them. It is a fight to the last man. And it seems we're losing...
October 26th:
I love you. I always did. However, it seems this is meant to be my last letter. Not only is this the last piece of paper I have, but I am alone now. We were eight yesterday. Iwan stepped on a mine and was torn apart in front of our eyes. Three others were killed by a tank gun. Another one became victim of a sniper. Anatol and Mischa were killed while on the run by the Germans. I´m the last one. I haven't slept since the day before yesterday and had nothing to eat since then, too. I am tired and hungry. Furthermore, I lost my gun. I got a rifle instead but I have only a single round left. I will use it wisely. I love you. Adieu.
Chapter II, Part 35: The Battle of Kiew, Part II
- Location
- Hamburg, Germany
Somewhere in Kiew, October 26th
Three German soldiers of Infanterieregiment 492 Wedding were patrolling in the western part of the city which had been in German hands for a few days already. However, there still were several bands of Soviet soldiers active; soldiers, that hadn't made it to their own troops across the river – Therefore they needed to be very cautious. Currently they were investigating a sound that had come from a derelict house. They slowly approached the building only to find a young-looking Soviet soldier, who – when he noticed them nearing – tried to grab the rifle that leaned to the wall next to him. Reacting on instinct, one of the German soldier shot him in the shoulder.
"Let me finish him," Gefreiter Hamil Öztürk said.
"Don't," Hauptgefreiter Abdul Rahman said. "We took a few prisoners already, why not make him another one? He´s only a boy."
"They are barbarians," Obergefreiter John Objingwe spat. "They nearly killed us yesterday, when we found that baby. The bed of the little one was a single mine. Only because of Günther we were able to save the little one."
"I know, I know," Abdul tried to calm him. "I´m no murderer, though. I won´t kill a defenceless boy!"
"Okay, okay. Hamil, let him live," Objingwe ordered.
"He's a Russian after all. I joined to kill some Thommies." Rahman said off-handedly.
The others thought Öztürk was too blood thirsty and prone to violence. They didn't like him, but he was on their side, so they let him be.
"Okay," Öztürk said. "Let´s get him to HQ.
"By the way, what exactly did happen to that baby?" Rahman wanted to know.
"I´ve heard that Lieutenant von Werner volunteered to take care of him." Objingwe answered. "He lost his wife during the strike and his child, a daughter I think, now lives with his mother. He always planned for her to have a little sibling. Iwan, as he calls him, is in the best hands. Von Werner is great with little ones. The Lieutenant told me that his Lena is in the very same age."
"And the authorities?" Rahman asked. "They just let him take a baby?"
"It´s not as if there´s anyone left to claim him," Objingwe shrugged. "It seems he talked to the Major, who talked to the General. The General just became grandfather a few days ago; twins, if I recall correctly, so he was very agreeable to the Leutnant taking care of him.
Iwan got lucky. He will be sent to Germany today. The Lieutenant´s mother has moved back with his Lena to his grandmother, to the estate the family did own in Silesia. Somewhere near Breslau, I heard. It seems at least for now he is allowed to take care of the little one. He even plans to adopt him. I think in this situation there will be no big problems doing so."
About a quarter of an hour later soldier Valentin Alexandrowitsch Sjuganin was delivered to the PoW camp the Germans had provisionally installed in Kiew. His wounds were treated and he would later be sent to a camp near Cologne.
Three German soldiers of Infanterieregiment 492 Wedding were patrolling in the western part of the city which had been in German hands for a few days already. However, there still were several bands of Soviet soldiers active; soldiers, that hadn't made it to their own troops across the river – Therefore they needed to be very cautious. Currently they were investigating a sound that had come from a derelict house. They slowly approached the building only to find a young-looking Soviet soldier, who – when he noticed them nearing – tried to grab the rifle that leaned to the wall next to him. Reacting on instinct, one of the German soldier shot him in the shoulder.
"Let me finish him," Gefreiter Hamil Öztürk said.
"Don't," Hauptgefreiter Abdul Rahman said. "We took a few prisoners already, why not make him another one? He´s only a boy."
"They are barbarians," Obergefreiter John Objingwe spat. "They nearly killed us yesterday, when we found that baby. The bed of the little one was a single mine. Only because of Günther we were able to save the little one."
"I know, I know," Abdul tried to calm him. "I´m no murderer, though. I won´t kill a defenceless boy!"
"Okay, okay. Hamil, let him live," Objingwe ordered.
"He's a Russian after all. I joined to kill some Thommies." Rahman said off-handedly.
The others thought Öztürk was too blood thirsty and prone to violence. They didn't like him, but he was on their side, so they let him be.
"Okay," Öztürk said. "Let´s get him to HQ.
"By the way, what exactly did happen to that baby?" Rahman wanted to know.
"I´ve heard that Lieutenant von Werner volunteered to take care of him." Objingwe answered. "He lost his wife during the strike and his child, a daughter I think, now lives with his mother. He always planned for her to have a little sibling. Iwan, as he calls him, is in the best hands. Von Werner is great with little ones. The Lieutenant told me that his Lena is in the very same age."
"And the authorities?" Rahman asked. "They just let him take a baby?"
"It´s not as if there´s anyone left to claim him," Objingwe shrugged. "It seems he talked to the Major, who talked to the General. The General just became grandfather a few days ago; twins, if I recall correctly, so he was very agreeable to the Leutnant taking care of him.
Iwan got lucky. He will be sent to Germany today. The Lieutenant´s mother has moved back with his Lena to his grandmother, to the estate the family did own in Silesia. Somewhere near Breslau, I heard. It seems at least for now he is allowed to take care of the little one. He even plans to adopt him. I think in this situation there will be no big problems doing so."
About a quarter of an hour later soldier Valentin Alexandrowitsch Sjuganin was delivered to the PoW camp the Germans had provisionally installed in Kiew. His wounds were treated and he would later be sent to a camp near Cologne.
Chapter II, Part 36: The Battle of Kiew, Part III
- Location
- Hamburg, Germany
Near Kiew, 30.000 feet AGL
The night was cloudy and neither stars nor the moon were visible behind the white shrouds. Complete darkness had descended upon the land, which lent itself to the nature of the operation that was about to commence. Hauptmann Christian Schröder was mentally re-checking all the important bits of the plan he was about to pull off. He would be the first one to jump into the darkness from a Transall transport plane. His Fallschirmjäger would follow him afterwards.
The plan was to capture key locations in and around Kiev in order to make way for the Bundeswehr to install bridges over the Dnjepr, one each north and south of Kiew. With the bridges erected, the soldiers would be able to cross the river and encircle the city. After its fall, Kiew then should be the bridgehead for Operation Wintersturm, the offensive of Heeresgruppe Süd. The aim was to capture the Ukraine and get into good position for the spring/summer offensive to take Baku. Not that Christian had been explicitly told about that, it was mostly his own estimates and guesses
But right now, there was no use in worrying over what might happen; he had an operation to see through. He jumped and then he was falling. There was only darkness around him, the only way to differentiate between up and down the lights shining from the city. To Christian the fall felt like an eternity, but he knew from experience that it would take barely three minutes for him to reach the ground. Soon, his feet stood on solid ground again – a field outside the city – which he and his fellow soldiers immediately secured for the following units.
Only 15 minutes later he heard the helicopters. Soon after the Jägerregiment 1 was disembarking. The first Soviet soldiers were arriving on the scene, but were repelled with heavy losses on their side due to his men. Soon after they send more troops, but the German ground attack helicopter and bomber were there as well. The attack of the Soviets was repelled. Tiger helicopter and A-10 Warthog were attacking enemy tanks, while Fw 190 dealt with infantry, using Napalm- and cluster bombs. After another three hours, the bridge was ready.
The unit north of Kiew had had more problems, but after the delivery of Wiesel 1 and 2 tankettes and another air strike they were also able to complete their task. When the first light of the day hit the horizon both bridges were ready and German forces were crossing them.
Brigadegeneral Georg v. Boeselager led his 1. Kavalleriedivision over the provisory bridge south of Kiew. His 11.500 men were to reinforce the Fallschirmjäger that were waiting on the other side and was supposed to meet the 1. Kosakendivision that was moving in from the north. All so that they could close the ring around Kiew. The Bundeswehr used mainly cavalry, as the terrain was too muddy after the rain of the weeks before for their heavier machinery. Today the rain had finally stopped, but the temperature was still at chilly 10 degrees Celsius.
After about an hour he received intel that the Soviets were amassing cavalry in this area as well. Like the Germans the Soviets had to rely on cavalry because of the weather conditions. Boeselager recalled an age-old wisdom: A cavalry attacking meant success. A cavalry being attacked meant defeat. He needed to attack the Soviets before they could attack him, even though he wouldn't get much air support as the plains currently in use were busy securing the two bridges.
In the following minutes, the German cavalry prepared to attack in the old way – meaning without support from modern war machinery. For the Soviets the German attack came as a bad surprise as they had no idea that German troops were already so deep in their territory. With lances and sabres the German cavalry attacked the Soviets, who were unable to form a coherent defense line and therefore were soon forced into retreating. The retreating cavalry took a Soviet infantry division with them as well, which had come to support the cavalry. In the chaos, the Germans were also able to hit the retreating Soviet infantry.
For Boeselager it was a great success. However, he couldn't help but feeling that maybe this was the last time a classical cavalry charge would be used in anything else but historical re-enactment. His chase of the Soviets had to be stopped, though, after hearing that the Cossacks were in trouble and were in need of support.
They had also engaged the Soviet forces, albeit with heavier losses than the Germans in the South as their surprise attack was not so effective. Furthermore, they had to face Soviet tanks, which were slowly making their way onto the battle field. For the German anti-tank soldiers accompanying the trek it was easy to take the first one out by using MILAN missiles fired from a thrower mounted on the carriage of a former 3,7 cm PAK of the cavalry, but there were simply too many tanks to counteract every single of them. To turn the tides of the battle in their favour the Cossacks found the most daring solution: A direct attack on the enemy tanks. They used Panzerfäuste to shot at the enemy tanks while riding and managed to destroy several of them. Soon the tanks had difficulties with continuing their advances due to the muddy ground and were enclosed by the Cossacks. Some tank crews decided to surrender, while others fought. Most of them were merciless slaughtered. When Boeselager's 1. Kavalleriedivision appeared on the scene, the Cossacks had already won the battle
However, the horses and the men were too exhausted to continue, so they built up defence positions. They had succeeded in enclosing Kiew and soon infantry would arrive, followed by tanks and other heavy machinery.
In the following days, the Germans built up better positions to enclose Kiew. The Eastern part of the city was attacked from all sides and on November 5th the Soviets caught in there surrendered. Small groups were still resisting for some days, though, before German troops were able to get to them.
Kiew had fallen.
The night was cloudy and neither stars nor the moon were visible behind the white shrouds. Complete darkness had descended upon the land, which lent itself to the nature of the operation that was about to commence. Hauptmann Christian Schröder was mentally re-checking all the important bits of the plan he was about to pull off. He would be the first one to jump into the darkness from a Transall transport plane. His Fallschirmjäger would follow him afterwards.
The plan was to capture key locations in and around Kiev in order to make way for the Bundeswehr to install bridges over the Dnjepr, one each north and south of Kiew. With the bridges erected, the soldiers would be able to cross the river and encircle the city. After its fall, Kiew then should be the bridgehead for Operation Wintersturm, the offensive of Heeresgruppe Süd. The aim was to capture the Ukraine and get into good position for the spring/summer offensive to take Baku. Not that Christian had been explicitly told about that, it was mostly his own estimates and guesses
But right now, there was no use in worrying over what might happen; he had an operation to see through. He jumped and then he was falling. There was only darkness around him, the only way to differentiate between up and down the lights shining from the city. To Christian the fall felt like an eternity, but he knew from experience that it would take barely three minutes for him to reach the ground. Soon, his feet stood on solid ground again – a field outside the city – which he and his fellow soldiers immediately secured for the following units.
Only 15 minutes later he heard the helicopters. Soon after the Jägerregiment 1 was disembarking. The first Soviet soldiers were arriving on the scene, but were repelled with heavy losses on their side due to his men. Soon after they send more troops, but the German ground attack helicopter and bomber were there as well. The attack of the Soviets was repelled. Tiger helicopter and A-10 Warthog were attacking enemy tanks, while Fw 190 dealt with infantry, using Napalm- and cluster bombs. After another three hours, the bridge was ready.
The unit north of Kiew had had more problems, but after the delivery of Wiesel 1 and 2 tankettes and another air strike they were also able to complete their task. When the first light of the day hit the horizon both bridges were ready and German forces were crossing them.
Brigadegeneral Georg v. Boeselager led his 1. Kavalleriedivision over the provisory bridge south of Kiew. His 11.500 men were to reinforce the Fallschirmjäger that were waiting on the other side and was supposed to meet the 1. Kosakendivision that was moving in from the north. All so that they could close the ring around Kiew. The Bundeswehr used mainly cavalry, as the terrain was too muddy after the rain of the weeks before for their heavier machinery. Today the rain had finally stopped, but the temperature was still at chilly 10 degrees Celsius.
After about an hour he received intel that the Soviets were amassing cavalry in this area as well. Like the Germans the Soviets had to rely on cavalry because of the weather conditions. Boeselager recalled an age-old wisdom: A cavalry attacking meant success. A cavalry being attacked meant defeat. He needed to attack the Soviets before they could attack him, even though he wouldn't get much air support as the plains currently in use were busy securing the two bridges.
In the following minutes, the German cavalry prepared to attack in the old way – meaning without support from modern war machinery. For the Soviets the German attack came as a bad surprise as they had no idea that German troops were already so deep in their territory. With lances and sabres the German cavalry attacked the Soviets, who were unable to form a coherent defense line and therefore were soon forced into retreating. The retreating cavalry took a Soviet infantry division with them as well, which had come to support the cavalry. In the chaos, the Germans were also able to hit the retreating Soviet infantry.
For Boeselager it was a great success. However, he couldn't help but feeling that maybe this was the last time a classical cavalry charge would be used in anything else but historical re-enactment. His chase of the Soviets had to be stopped, though, after hearing that the Cossacks were in trouble and were in need of support.
They had also engaged the Soviet forces, albeit with heavier losses than the Germans in the South as their surprise attack was not so effective. Furthermore, they had to face Soviet tanks, which were slowly making their way onto the battle field. For the German anti-tank soldiers accompanying the trek it was easy to take the first one out by using MILAN missiles fired from a thrower mounted on the carriage of a former 3,7 cm PAK of the cavalry, but there were simply too many tanks to counteract every single of them. To turn the tides of the battle in their favour the Cossacks found the most daring solution: A direct attack on the enemy tanks. They used Panzerfäuste to shot at the enemy tanks while riding and managed to destroy several of them. Soon the tanks had difficulties with continuing their advances due to the muddy ground and were enclosed by the Cossacks. Some tank crews decided to surrender, while others fought. Most of them were merciless slaughtered. When Boeselager's 1. Kavalleriedivision appeared on the scene, the Cossacks had already won the battle
However, the horses and the men were too exhausted to continue, so they built up defence positions. They had succeeded in enclosing Kiew and soon infantry would arrive, followed by tanks and other heavy machinery.
In the following days, the Germans built up better positions to enclose Kiew. The Eastern part of the city was attacked from all sides and on November 5th the Soviets caught in there surrendered. Small groups were still resisting for some days, though, before German troops were able to get to them.
Kiew had fallen.
- Location
- Asia
YEAH! It's Ike and Patton
I love how Patton is all flame and fury at being sacrificed because the politicians refused to sacrifice their careers and would rather sends tens of thousands of men to their deaths, while Ike stays cool like a cucumber...until Patton endorses him for President. Then he gets all flustered and modest
I love how Patton is all flame and fury at being sacrificed because the politicians refused to sacrifice their careers and would rather sends tens of thousands of men to their deaths, while Ike stays cool like a cucumber...until Patton endorses him for President. Then he gets all flustered and modest
- Location
- Pale Blue Dot
I suspect there would be a third big group too: Those who basically say "I disagree with many of the policies of the uptimers - but it obviously works. I can live with it. The British fleet can't, but their loss, yes?" Most knew that Germany was loosing the war, even if none would dare say it aloud in 1944. And as long as the end result points towards an obviously strong and free Germany...
Theese are people who value power, production, engineering, and success in war. I think a few combat Aces with 200+ kills to their names may find they are basically national heroes now, at the very least among the downtimers who know how bad the bombings were. Words from that kind of legendary warriors will carry weight among the old nazi partys core supporters.
Last edited:
- Location
- Hamburg, Germany
The German soldiers were generally no Nazis. I heard about a fighter pilot, who got his KC by Hitler himself. "Bubi" Hartmann (352 kills) was with him. He said, after the ceremony to Hartmann: "This man (Hitler) is mad!" "Yes, I told you!" was the answer.
However, you're right. There are more groups within the former Nazi party now:
1. Some few resistance fighters, who wanted to destroy the system from within or were forced to join (like my own great grand father).
2. Many Mitläufer, who just wanted to get some better position for their career. They are in no way a danger, if they get away lightly.
3. Die hard nazis:
a) Those, who accept the new regime, as they could see the errors of Hitler
b) Those, who try to regain power later, within the system
c) Those, who wants to fight the new regime with force
Because of this the denazification has these groups:
5. Entlasteter (releasee): They are out of any problems in this regard
4. Mitläufer (follower): Demotions, if in public serviced and/or fined. Rarely fired (only if other causes are to be added).
3. Minderbelastete (minor charged): They are awaiting jail penalties, if they aren't in the penal units. No public office, but can regain the position.
2. Belastete (charged): They are awaiting long jail penalties and are in no way able to regain a public office.
1. Main war criminals: Lifelong imprisonment is possible.
As I already said on AH, only the groups 1 and 2 are really persecuted. The others, well, can be lucky, if they get a mild judge. As there are too many of them, these trials become more and more, well, mild, the more time advances. So a person from 4 has good chances to get into Nr. 5. Or 3. Furthermore, the last three groups can lower their burden by making a testimony in front of the Truth Commission (Wahrheitskommission) and thus can become member of the next lower group. This system is especially criticized by the left, but IMO the only working system.
However, you're right. There are more groups within the former Nazi party now:
1. Some few resistance fighters, who wanted to destroy the system from within or were forced to join (like my own great grand father).
2. Many Mitläufer, who just wanted to get some better position for their career. They are in no way a danger, if they get away lightly.
3. Die hard nazis:
a) Those, who accept the new regime, as they could see the errors of Hitler
b) Those, who try to regain power later, within the system
c) Those, who wants to fight the new regime with force
Because of this the denazification has these groups:
5. Entlasteter (releasee): They are out of any problems in this regard
4. Mitläufer (follower): Demotions, if in public serviced and/or fined. Rarely fired (only if other causes are to be added).
3. Minderbelastete (minor charged): They are awaiting jail penalties, if they aren't in the penal units. No public office, but can regain the position.
2. Belastete (charged): They are awaiting long jail penalties and are in no way able to regain a public office.
1. Main war criminals: Lifelong imprisonment is possible.
As I already said on AH, only the groups 1 and 2 are really persecuted. The others, well, can be lucky, if they get a mild judge. As there are too many of them, these trials become more and more, well, mild, the more time advances. So a person from 4 has good chances to get into Nr. 5. Or 3. Furthermore, the last three groups can lower their burden by making a testimony in front of the Truth Commission (Wahrheitskommission) and thus can become member of the next lower group. This system is especially criticized by the left, but IMO the only working system.
Yeah an 88mm L/71 is definitely not going to fit in a Panther (flat face) turret but can potentially fit inside the schmalturm turret that was designed for the Panther II.
Slightly off-topic, do you think development of an APDS or APFSDS round (sorry I am obsessed with APDS/APFSDS
The 8.8cm Schmalturm proposal by Krupp was actually drafted up a lot later than the Panther II*, and was a significant change to the earlier Schmalturm designs with the 7.5cm guns. The whole turret was somewhat enlarged, and required some significant changes to the hull to widen the turret ring by another 10cm. It would not have fit on the existing Panther hull.
*Panther II development was dropped in late 43, the 8.8cm Schmalturm proposal for the Panther F was only floated in late '44.
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Darksoul2142
SUMMONER OF DARK DRAGON
- Location
- Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
Interesting information, thanks
. This is why upgrading ammunition would work out to be far more convenient and easy as compared to major modifications and changes made to a tank whether it be the turret, lengthening or widening the chassis etc. This is why the Rheinmetall 120mm is still being used with countless replacements not being accepted e.g. 140mm, 130mm etc. because the ammunition for it is being upgraded when necessary.
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Now related to the recent updates: I always liked Patton's dramatics and Eisenhower's contrasting calm attitude, wish people were as brutally blunt as him
. It would be interesting to see Halsey's and MacArthur's reactions to the failed Normandy landings and the subsequent naval slaughter surrounding it.
- Location
- Asia
Much like at AH, I'm looking forward to MacArthur being MacArthur to Patton and Ike over being defeated at Boulogne. Ike would probably just let it slide, but Patton is likely going to punch MacArthur in the face.
Eh, considering what he'll be hearing about German wonder weapons, I wouldn't be surprised to see MacArthur decide to not do that - if nothing else, because it could sound bad to the press/politicians, which would be awkward for MacArthur's image.
- Location
- Hamburg, Germany
It will last some time, but there will be a meeting between Ike and MacArthur. That will be part of Chapter 5 though.
- Status