Mercenary Mage Quest: Asur Dogs of War in Warhammer Fantasy
- Thread starter Blackout
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they will be able to train them up to standard Elf Spearman and Elf Arcters, but not veterans, let alone sea guard.
time is the problem.
Imperious
Without the sun of my life
If anything I'd expect for a human 25er to probably be fighting with a lot less of his peers, in ability, then Lothern Sea Guard would. Going by the frontpage stat explanation 20 in a stat is probably about the limit of how far human organizations can take the stats of people working for them on an institutional limit. Once you get to 25 you're probably talking about people who have both decades long professional training as well as are pretty exceptional in their own right. In contrast the elves can produce entire units of 25ers.
If we want more Lothern Sea Guard esque troops then probably the least difficult unit type to train to that level would be Veteran Spearmen. Lothern Sea Guard are hybrid bow and spear infantry, and the militia requires its recruits to first spend a few decades as an archer before being then made to serve as spearmen. A Veteran Spearman would already know how to use both a bow and a spear well, the main thing they'd need to learn from a Sea Guard would be how to quickly and effectively switch between them in battle.
Hag Witch: We Hags in the community like to call it Hagmaxin.
Imperious
Without the sun of my life
Also just in general I think training Unbloodied to be Lothern Sea Guard is the wrong route to go with them. Melee is generally going to put a lot more strain on a soldier's morale then being an archer in a backline, so long as the frontline isn't breached. Unbloodied don't have the Valor of Ages morale increasing trait that veterans have, and they don't have the By Our Blood morale increasing trait that Kislevites have, so they're not ideal in terms of having them take morale tests while being in melee, so generally we'd want them in the backlines as archers. At this point it should be noted that the Sea Guard carry lighter bows, then militia veterans, war bows instead of longbows. On TT this results in them having somewhat shorter range then archers, making the Sea Guard marginally lesser archers then the militia archers. Consequently training our unbloodied in the fashion of veteran archers will make them marginally better archers if they can eventually use the longbow, which is the role we want for the unbloodied anyway.
Incidentally Asur military doctrine holds that recruits should be made to serve as a melee force in the spearmen regiments only after decades of service as archers. That's probably not incidental to the idea that totally green troops should be kept out from the more stressful melee until they've gotten some seasoning.
I maintain that the best place for the Sea Guard during a land battle is probably as flank defenders. Despite being a bit further back then the frontline they can still cause damage with their bows, but any cavalry trying to go around the backline will get a rude awakening if they try to pass through the Sea Guard like as if they were some random archers.
Incidentally Asur military doctrine holds that recruits should be made to serve as a melee force in the spearmen regiments only after decades of service as archers. That's probably not incidental to the idea that totally green troops should be kept out from the more stressful melee until they've gotten some seasoning.
I maintain that the best place for the Sea Guard during a land battle is probably as flank defenders. Despite being a bit further back then the frontline they can still cause damage with their bows, but any cavalry trying to go around the backline will get a rude awakening if they try to pass through the Sea Guard like as if they were some random archers.
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Something tells me the Dawi would be secretly interested in this particular branch of magic.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
They'd hate it. A Dwarf would get the appearance of age and wisdom without earning it.
The whole point of measuring Dwarfs by the length of their beards or plaits is that it's an immutable marker of how long you've lived.
I agree, but at the moment we don't have a flank to defend. So until we have a larger frontline, they will have to cover several roles.
I agree that the Unbloodied should be our archers, while we can have Kislevite spearmen has our frontline.
State of the Empire
Blackout
Fed By Comments
- Location
- Who knows?
Anyway, in the meanwhile, since you have now spent several weeks in the Empire Fanriel has acquired a basic grasp of the situation as it stands with the civil war, which people have been asking for since the beginning of the thread. I decided to make it into an informational threadmark because I couldn't figure out an organic way to put it into an update.
There are currently four major claimants to the throne of the Empire of Sigmar: Reikland Emperor Wilhelm II Schliestein, Marienburg Emperor Paulus Van Der Maacht, Wolf Emperor Siegmund Todmeyer and Ottilian Empress Anna-Louise VI Feuerbach, though of course they each just call themselves "Emperor" with no descriptor attached.
The Reikland Emperor controls Reikland, Wissenland and Averland, making him theoretically the strongest of the claimants, as those are some of the most productive and fertile of the Empire's lands, but he is held back by two factors. One, he controls Wissenland but not Nuln, which has declared itself neutral and independent of the Emperor-claimants, something that they are happy to enforce through the barrel of some very large guns. Naturally, this doesn't stop them from selling those same guns to all sides of the conflict. Two, while he is officially backed by the Cult of Sigmar, from the sounds of things in reality it's more like him backing the Cult of Sigmar. While it's impossible to say for sure all the way from Ostland, as far as you can tell the Grand Theogonist is the real power in Reikland, and the Emperor is mainly a figurehead.
Marienburg controls only the province of Westerland, and thus the smallest amount of land and population. However, due to Marienburg's mercantile interests Paulus is also the richest of the claimants, and the Treaty of Amity and Commerce makes attacking Marienburg practically impossible for the other claimants. Furthermore he is backed by the Cult of Manann, and enjoys near-total naval dominance in the Sea of Claws and in the lower Reik, threatening Carroburg and Altdorf.
The Ottilians control Talabecland and Stirland, and by your estimation are currently the weakest of the claimants, but the free-for-all nature of the civil war and the natural barriers of the rivers Aver and Talabec make invading them a difficult prospect. The descendants of the original Empress Ottilia appear to have splintered into countless branches, not all of whom necessarily agree on which are the cadets and which is the main. Empress Anna-Louise seems to be trying to shore up her position by conquering Ostermark, which used to be under the Ottilians' control but rebelled and declared itself independent. They also claim Mootland as part of their territory, but they seem to have struck a deal with the Halflings that they will be left alone so long as they sell them cheap grain and guard their section of the Aver against southern incursions. They are backed by the Cult of Taal, but their support appears to be less overt than the other Cults.
Lastly, the Wolf-Emperor Siegmund, often referred to as Siegmund Wolfborn, rules from Middenheim and is owed fealty by Middenland, Nordland, Hochland and Ostland. He appears to be an able military commander and has recently won a major victory against the Reiklanders, which appears to be only the latest in a long string of successful campaigns by the armies of Middenland, backed by the Cult of Ulric and the War-Wizards of Middenheim. However, reading between the lines, it sounds like Middenland is for all intents and purposes fighting alone: Nordland chafes under Middenlander dominance, having previously been independent before being vassalized, and takes almost as many resources to pacify as it provides, Hochland can field little in the way of troops and the moment they try to leave the province it would be overrun by beastmen and greenskins, and while Ostland is happy to pay taxes to Middenheim Elector-Count Odo von Hohenzollern has staunchly refused to send his armies south to support the Wolf-Emperor's imperial ambitions, which Siegmund is hardly in a position to force him to do. You get the impression that Siegmund is personally popular, but the war is not.
There are currently four major claimants to the throne of the Empire of Sigmar: Reikland Emperor Wilhelm II Schliestein, Marienburg Emperor Paulus Van Der Maacht, Wolf Emperor Siegmund Todmeyer and Ottilian Empress Anna-Louise VI Feuerbach, though of course they each just call themselves "Emperor" with no descriptor attached.
The Reikland Emperor controls Reikland, Wissenland and Averland, making him theoretically the strongest of the claimants, as those are some of the most productive and fertile of the Empire's lands, but he is held back by two factors. One, he controls Wissenland but not Nuln, which has declared itself neutral and independent of the Emperor-claimants, something that they are happy to enforce through the barrel of some very large guns. Naturally, this doesn't stop them from selling those same guns to all sides of the conflict. Two, while he is officially backed by the Cult of Sigmar, from the sounds of things in reality it's more like him backing the Cult of Sigmar. While it's impossible to say for sure all the way from Ostland, as far as you can tell the Grand Theogonist is the real power in Reikland, and the Emperor is mainly a figurehead.
Marienburg controls only the province of Westerland, and thus the smallest amount of land and population. However, due to Marienburg's mercantile interests Paulus is also the richest of the claimants, and the Treaty of Amity and Commerce makes attacking Marienburg practically impossible for the other claimants. Furthermore he is backed by the Cult of Manann, and enjoys near-total naval dominance in the Sea of Claws and in the lower Reik, threatening Carroburg and Altdorf.
The Ottilians control Talabecland and Stirland, and by your estimation are currently the weakest of the claimants, but the free-for-all nature of the civil war and the natural barriers of the rivers Aver and Talabec make invading them a difficult prospect. The descendants of the original Empress Ottilia appear to have splintered into countless branches, not all of whom necessarily agree on which are the cadets and which is the main. Empress Anna-Louise seems to be trying to shore up her position by conquering Ostermark, which used to be under the Ottilians' control but rebelled and declared itself independent. They also claim Mootland as part of their territory, but they seem to have struck a deal with the Halflings that they will be left alone so long as they sell them cheap grain and guard their section of the Aver against southern incursions. They are backed by the Cult of Taal, but their support appears to be less overt than the other Cults.
Lastly, the Wolf-Emperor Siegmund, often referred to as Siegmund Wolfborn, rules from Middenheim and is owed fealty by Middenland, Nordland, Hochland and Ostland. He appears to be an able military commander and has recently won a major victory against the Reiklanders, which appears to be only the latest in a long string of successful campaigns by the armies of Middenland, backed by the Cult of Ulric and the War-Wizards of Middenheim. However, reading between the lines, it sounds like Middenland is for all intents and purposes fighting alone: Nordland chafes under Middenlander dominance, having previously been independent before being vassalized, and takes almost as many resources to pacify as it provides, Hochland can field little in the way of troops and the moment they try to leave the province it would be overrun by beastmen and greenskins, and while Ostland is happy to pay taxes to Middenheim Elector-Count Odo von Hohenzollern has staunchly refused to send his armies south to support the Wolf-Emperor's imperial ambitions, which Siegmund is hardly in a position to force him to do. You get the impression that Siegmund is personally popular, but the war is not.
Imperious
Without the sun of my life
Somebody is a fan of DoDA I take it
- Location
- Washington
Honestly an astonishing show of support when he's on the opposite side of Middenheim's "empire" with an unruly province in the way.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Getting money out of an Ostlander at that!
Have they checked it's genuine gold?
Imperious
Without the sun of my life
Anyway sounds like that in terms of finding work between Reikland Marienburg we'd have an easier time finding work fighting something other then Imperials in Marienburg then Reikland. They're even wealthier to, so paymasters with deeper pockets to boot if you can find someone willing to reach into them.
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I mean, in Hochland we could find plenty of Greenskins and Beastmen to fight.
And considering how small the province is, our company would be an actualy significant military force by comparsion.
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Yes, but very little gold to pay us for the fighting.
Imperious
Without the sun of my life
Basically this:
I was comparing only Reikland and Marienburg because I was previously floating the idea of moving to either at some point in case we ever needed richer paymasters then Kislev has to offer.
The Lothern Sea Guard would probably like Hochland, but then they'd probably like being paid even more.
I mean, is not like they are spending what they have on a lot of things.
Yeah, but that's because they don't have much in the first place. You can't spend what you don't have.
Blackout
Fed By Comments
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- Who knows?
It's not really on the other end, Middenheim is on the northeastern end of Middenland, putting it around the middle of the Wolf-Emperor's territory (Middenland being by far the largest of the provinces) and Wolfenburg is on the southwestern side of Ostland. It's only a short jaunt through Hochland to get there, less distance than from Middenheim to Carroburg or Wolfenburg to where you are now.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Speaking of Carroburg- Reikland-aligned or have they taken it back?
Imperious
Without the sun of my life
Incoming Imperial job offers intensifies.
Also Middenheim has war wizards. Hmm. Do those ever get hired by the Ostlanders? We might be able to meet some that way.
- Location
- Washington
Hochland isn't "hard won scrabbling existence clawing what little they can out of the dirt" poor, it's underdeveloped poor. It still has its spots that ARE developed but those are not particularly less productive than developed spots anywhere else in the empire. They indeed might have less money to pay us but they will still have some money to pay us, and there's still something to be said for a spot that should have GUARUNTEED work when it comes to making a name for ourselves within the empire(s).
I mean, i am not sure the Swordmasters or the Sea Guard want to be involved in the civil war.
Imperious
Without the sun of my life
I was quoting our proximity to the Ostland capitol, which we've been told doesn't take part in the inter Imperial fighting.
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Personally, I'm against getting involved in the Civil War unless the money and benefits are truly outrageous. We came here to fight Chaos, money is purely a means to that end.