Voting is open for the next 14 hours, 59 minutes
Speaking of Carroburg- Reikland-aligned or have they taken it back?
Carroburg is Middenland. As mentioned Middenland has been on a winning streak for a while, they've just been unable to capitalize on it due to lack of support from the rest of the provinces while the Reiklanders just draw reinforcements from Wissenland and Averland to replace their losses.

Do those ever get hired by the Ostlanders?
The Ostlanders don't seem to have a great opinion of them. The only times you've heard of them coming to Ostland is when Middenland's armies have come to help defend it against one foe or another.
 
Wanting to fight Chaos doesn't mean having to take all of our jobs in Kislev though. We could fight Norscans in Marienburg or Beastmen in the rest of the Empire.

Sure. That's why I specified not getting involved in the Civil War, rather than never taking jobs from the Imperials. But honestly, there's more Chaos to fight in Kislev so I'd be pretty reluctant to move south for more than a job or two even then. We have priorities here and the Empire isn't really one of them.
 
I do not think being a mercenary captain is a democracy. If the seaguard did not want to take orders they should have tried some other job.
All of them have the option to leave us high and dry whenever they wish to however.

The Sea Guard especially are here to fight Chaos. The thing is they may narrow that meaning to Norscans and monsters of the north. Beastmen in some woods in the middle of the Empire may be not their preferred way of doing things.
 
Last edited:
Sure. That's why I specified not getting involved in the Civil War, rather than never taking jobs from the Imperials. But honestly, there's more Chaos to fight in Kislev so I'd be pretty reluctant to move south for more than a job or two even then. We have priorities here and the Empire isn't really one of them.

Honestly? That's like your opinion man. I don't really care that much between fighting Norscan reavers on the pay of Kislevites or Marienburgers, and fighting Beastmen isn't any lower on my priorities then fighting trolls or whatever.

Generally my order of priorities is probably:
1) Doing right by our troops
2) Learning non proscribed magical lore
3) Fighting Chaos pre GWAC

Honestly, every single Warhammer quest is about fighting Chaos. Every single one. I don't mind doing it, it's fun and it has an important narrative role, but I don't feel that it should be our northern star above everything else when we have subordinates who have entrusted their lives and livelihood to us, especially when we can probably take care of both in most places.
I do not think being a mercenary captain is a democracy. If the seaguard did not want to take orders they should have tried some other job.

DragonParadox, we literally got these guys because they resigned from their previous job after they felt their boss was wasting too much of their time on his political intrigues rather then actually important fights. If we displease them too much they probably will just resign from the Lightfangs like they resigned from the Sea Guard.
 
Last edited:
The morale of our people remains a factor. Also, they can quit. It's not a democracy, but it's also not a military enlistment...they can just leave. So we need to take their wishes into account at least somewhat.

They are indeed entirely capable of quitting in the middle of a contract, that is an excellent way to never work as a mercenary again. I do not think they will take it out of some desire not to stab imperials especially if the stabbing is good and the pay is fine. There is this perception I've noticed that the good guys do not really fight each other in warhammer and if some of them are fighting it is somehow extraordinary and people will lose morale but the lore is full of battles where 'the good guys' fight each other with elan. Sometimes it is over a misunderstanding or a feud, often it is for good old fashioned land, wealth and power.
 
Best way about this, is to pick one of "Emperors" (either "most worthy" or just having biggest chance to win), and then "stay with him" until he wins against others.

If Sea Guard protests, we can call this "empowering Forces of Order"
 
If this were a book or videogame, there would be a very strong chance that one of the candidates is secretly a Chaos worshipper. I wouldn't rule out the plotlines intersecting, in fact I would kind of expect it.
 
They are indeed entirely capable of quitting in the middle of a contract, that is an excellent way to never work as a mercenary again. I do not think they will take it out of some desire not to stab imperials especially if the stabbing is good and the pay is fine. There is this perception I've noticed that the good guys do not really fight each other in warhammer and if some of them are fighting it is somehow extraordinary and people will lose morale but the lore is full of battles where 'the good guys' fight each other with elan. Sometimes it is over a misunderstanding or a feud, often it is for good old fashioned land, wealth and power.

I doubt they really need to work as mercenaries. Even if they resigned from the Sea Guard, if what we've been told about how the Ulthuani army is yearning for veteran spearmen and veteran archers to work at it is true then soldiers of the Sea Guard's caliber can probably find work there easily. As is the Sea Guard appear to have signed with us mostly because we impressed them in Jaarpen. We've been told before that the Seaguard is mostly made up of genuine idealists who really do believe in the cause of being "the shield of civilization". I could see what you're saying being true for recruited unbloodied or militia veterans, but we've been given cause to think that what you say doesn't really apply to the Sea Guard.
 
Honestly? That's like your opinion man. I don't really care that much between fighting Norscan reavers on the pay of Kislevites or Marienburgers, and fighting Beastmen isn't any lower on my priorities then fighting trolls or whatever.

I mean, evidence strongly suggests it is the opinion of a majority of the thread, based on previous votes. That could change, but I'm pretty sure I'm not remotely in the minority here.

Honestly, every single Warhammer quest is about fighting Chaos. Every single one. I don't mind doing it, it's fun and it has an important narrative role, but I don't feel that it should be our northern star above everything else when we have subordinates who have entrusted their lives and livelihood to us, especially when we can probably do both in most places.

I'm at least partially talking about Fanriel's demonstrated In-Character priorities here. We actually voted on what Fanriel cares about, and it's redemption from her past misdeeds. Taking care of our troops is certainly a part of that, but it's not sufficient on its own to actually do that. We also need to actually do good in the world, and fighting Chaos is one of the most obvious ways to do that.

We certainly don't only care about fighting Chaos or anything, but I never said we should, I said it should be a factor in where we choose to actually ply our trade, and that I'd thus be very reluctant to leave Kislev for somewhere with less Chaos and other threats.

They are indeed entirely capable of quitting in the middle of a contract, that is an excellent way to never work as a mercenary again. I do not think they will take it out of some desire not to stab imperials especially if the stabbing is good and the pay is fine. There is this perception I've noticed that the good guys do not really fight each other in warhammer and if some of them are fighting it is somehow extraordinary and people will lose morale but the lore is full of battles where 'the good guys' fight each other with elan. Sometimes it is over a misunderstanding or a feud, often it is for good old fashioned land, wealth and power.

I was not suggesting they'd quit mid-contract. I was suggesting if we wish to retain their services and not have them quit between missions, we must take their feelings into account. And I don't object to fighting 'the good guys'...I object to going off-mission. We voted for what Fanriel's goals were, and they were not 'make as much money as possible', they involved seeking redemption, which involves actually making the world better, not getting drawn into petty politics.

If we have a chance to save a huge number of Elven lives or deal a major blow to Chaos by fighting one of the Emperors, I'm all for it. But doing it for money alone is a hard sell. Not impossible, because money can be leveraged to do those kinds of things, but it'd need to be significantly more money than we could make taking a mission that more directly involved Fanriel's redemption.
 
Last edited:
If this were a book or videogame, there would be a very strong chance that one of the candidates is secretly a Chaos worshipper. I wouldn't rule out the plotlines intersecting, in fact I would kind of expect it.
I sort of doubt that.

There are certainly members of the imperial nobility who are chaos worshippers, but the big tragedy of the era is that there is no external threat causing these issues for the empire. The occasional vampire who sticks their head up to be hammered down aside, the empire is torn apart for a thousand years and sigmar's dream nearly dies because of human greed and the various factions of the empire's own selfish ambitions. That was what made it so simple, though not easy, for Magnus to pull things back together.

Granted, Blackout could have changed that for the purposes of catching us off guard.
I'd rather get away from the coast entirely.

My aim is still to get to Pragg as soon as Dorial is well.
Getting away from the coasts sounds good to me.
 
I doubt they really need to work as mercenaries. Even if they resigned from the Sea Guard, if what we've been told about how the Ulthuani army is yearning for veteran spearmen and veteran archers to work at it is true then soldiers of the Sea Guard's caliber can probably find work there easily. As is the Sea Guard appear to have signed with us mostly because we impressed them in Jaarpen. We've been told before that the Seaguard is mostly made up of genuine idealists who really do believe in the cause of being "the shield of civilization". I could see what you're saying being true for recruited unbloodied or militia veterans, but we've been given cause to think that what you say doesn't really apply to the Sea Guard.

That is a good reason why they would choose to sign up with us as opposed to anyone else, but I don't think Jaarpen impressed them so much that it alone caused them to want to be mercenaries to begin with. As for them finding other mercenary work easily I would not be so sure. Fanriel is reasonably well versed in the cultures of the Old World etc... Most Asur are not. Still it's not that I absolutely positively want to stab imperials for profit, just that we should probably keep in mind that going up against the people without daemon backup and with loot that is all safe to claim might be a good idea in between bouts of fighting monsters.
 
I'm at least partially talking about Fanriel's demonstrated In-Character priorities here. We actually voted on what Fanriel cares about, and it's redemption from her past misdeeds. Taking care of our troops is certainly a part of that, but it's not sufficient on its own to actually do that. We also need to actually do good in the world, and fighting Chaos is one of the most obvious ways to do that.

We certainly don't only care about fighting Chaos or anything, but I never said we should, I said it should be a factor in where we choose to actually ply our trade, and that I'd thus be very reluctant to leave Kislev for somewhere with less Chaos and other threats.

If you're going to try to play the "You have to do what I want in the quest because what I want is what's in character" game with me again then I'm just going to remind you that Fanriel has an obsessive compulsive lust for obtaining magical lore and has literally lost san points over the injuries of one of her troops.

Seriously, we're the players here. We decide what the PC does, and none of what I've suggested is remotely so out of character that it would be unconsciousable as the PC's motivations, both in terms of what they are and in their order of priorities, unless the GM says so. Stop trying to tell me what is or isn't IC enough for me to vote for.
 
If you're going to try to play the "You have to do what I want in the quest because what I want is what's in character" game with me again then I'm just going to remind you that Fanriel has an obsessive compulsive lust for obtaining magical lore and has literally lost san points over the injuries of one of her troops.

Seriously, we're the players here. We decide what the PC does, and none of what I've suggested is remotely so out of character that it would be unconsciousable as the PC's motivations, both in terms of what they are and in their order of priorities, unless the GM says so. Stop trying to tell me what is or isn't IC enough for me to vote for.

I'm not saying you have to vote for things based on what's been voted for previously, I'm saying you accusing me of being an outlier when I'm basing my opinions on the thread's previous votes is weird. Like...evidence suggests my opinion is the majority. We can change our minds as a thread, sure, but you were the one claiming my opinion was in the minority...all I'm doing is presenting evidence that it doesn't seem to be.

And I'm not against any of the things you listed and never said I was. I'm against deserting fighting Chaos for things that don't actually seem to up our ability to care for our men or get magical knowledge. Like...Praag is probably our single best bet for magical knowledge, IMO, and I'm all for heading there.
 
I was not suggesting they'd quit mid-contract. I was suggesting if we wish to retain their services and not have them quit between missions, we must take their feelings into account. And I don't object to fighting 'the good guys'...I object to going off-mission. We voted for what Fanriel's goals were, and they were not 'make as much money as possible', they involved seeking redemption, which involves actually making the world better, not getting drawn into petty politics.

If we have a chance to save a huge number of Elven lives or deal a major blow to Chaos by fighting one of the Emperors, I'm all for it. But doing it for money alone is a hard sell. Not impossible, because money can be leveraged to do those kinds of things, but it'd need to be significantly more money than we could make taking a mission that more directly involved Fanriel's redemption.

We voted to feel sorry about what we did and to fight Chaos, both of these are reasonable things that someone in Fanriel's position would feel. They need not be her sole driving motivation from now onto eternity. Taking a job to go stab imperials this month because it pays well and is less mentally taxing that fighting Cthulhu's less hygienic cousin is not something that contravenes using taking a preponderance of jobs against Chaos.
 
We voted to feel sorry about what we did and to fight Chaos, both of these are reasonable things that someone in Fanriel's position would feel. They need not be her sole driving motivation from now onto eternity. Taking a job to go stab imperials this month because it pays well and is less mentally taxing that fighting Cthulhu's less hygienic cousin is not something that contravenes using taking a preponderance of jobs against Chaos.

I mean, sure? I never said otherwise? I'm not arguing we should never fight anything but Chaos, I'm saying that getting involved in Imperial politics too much is a distraction we don't need. I specifically said a few times I'm in if the money's good enough...it'd just need to be really good, IMO.
 
I'm not saying you have to vote for things based on what's been voted for previously, I'm saying you accusing me of being an outlier when I'm basing my opinions on the thread's previous votes is weird. Like...evidence suggests my opinion is the majority. We can change our minds as a thread, sure, but you were the one claiming my opinion was in the minority...all I'm doing is presenting evidence that it doesn't seem to be.

And I'm not against any of the things you listed and never said I was. I'm against deserting fighting Chaos for things that don't actually seem to up our ability to care for our men or get magical knowledge. Like...Praag is probably our single best bet for magical knowledge, IMO, and I'm all for heading there.

I wasn't saying your opinion was, necessarily, in the minority, I was saying that your opinion isn't my opinion. Frankly I wouldn't try to claim to know what is the majority opinion. Character creation certainly involved a lot of people focusing on fighting Chaos, but it's also been the better part of two years since then and the voter base probably isn't identical to what it was then. Hence me saying in that original post that my personal priorities are those three, not saying that those are necessarily the thread's priorities.
 
It's not just the pay we get out of the occasional bout of taking part in reik river basin infighting, it's also reputation. We hardly want our name to only be known in kislev and northern ostland.

(As another matter, at some point we're going to get troops that are in fact working for us because they want to get paid, and this is true even if we stick exclusively to elves, because most elves we've got a shot at recruiting do not have the same motives as the Lothern Sea Guard, and at that point we'll almost certainly face morale issues if every single contract is going up against chaos.)
 
I mean, sure? I never said otherwise? I'm not arguing we should never fight anything but Chaos, I'm saying that getting involved in Imperial politics too much is a distraction we don't need. I specifically said a few times I'm in if the money's good enough...it'd just need to be really good, IMO.

Oh sure, that is reasonable, I do not think we have the means to get too far involved in imperial politics regardless. Not to mention that our greatest asset, being a mage, does not play well politically in the empire.
 
I wasn't saying your opinion was, necessarily, in the minority, I was saying that your opinion isn't my opinion. Frankly I wouldn't try to claim to know what is the majority opinion. Character creation certainly involved a lot of people focusing on fighting Chaos, but it's also been the better part of two years since then and the voter base probably isn't identical to what it was then. Hence me saying in that original post that my personal priorities are those three, not saying that those are necessarily the thread's priorities.

I'm not sure what the point of saying 'that's just your opinion' even is then? Like, that very much came across as you dismissing my opinion as irrelevant because it was only mine, in the minority. If you just want to state your own opinion then, uh, fine? I disagree with you for reasons already stated. My main objection was to you being dismissive.
 
I'm not sure what the point of saying 'that's just your opinion' even is then? Like, that very much came across as you dismissing my opinion as irrelevant because it was only mine, in the minority. If you just want to state your own opinion then, uh, fine? I disagree with you for reasons already stated. My main objection was to you being dismissive.
Because I wanted to clarify that when you say stuff like:
Personally, I'm against getting involved in the Civil War unless the money and benefits are truly outrageous. We came here to fight Chaos, money is purely a means to that end.
Sure. That's why I specified not getting involved in the Civil War, rather than never taking jobs from the Imperials. But honestly, there's more Chaos to fight in Kislev so I'd be pretty reluctant to move south for more than a job or two even then. We have priorities here and the Empire isn't really one of them.
That you're not speaking for me.
Oh sure, that is reasonable, I do not think we have the means to get too far involved in imperial politics regardless. Not to mention that our greatest asset, being a mage, does not play well politically in the empire.

We were actually told earlier by one of the Swordmasters that the Marienburgers are currently really interested in having some elven mages after an elven archmage saved Marienburg from Manfred von Carstein. We could probably sell our personal services for a premium there.

That is a good reason why they would choose to sign up with us as opposed to anyone else, but I don't think Jaarpen impressed them so much that it alone caused them to want to be mercenaries to begin with. As for them finding other mercenary work easily I would not be so sure. Fanriel is reasonably well versed in the cultures of the Old World etc... Most Asur are not. Still it's not that I absolutely positively want to stab imperials for profit, just that we should probably keep in mind that going up against the people without daemon backup and with loot that is all safe to claim might be a good idea in between bouts of fighting monsters.

I think you misunderstood what I said. I wasn't saying that they'd sign up for another mercenary group. I was saying they could probably just sign up for the Asur equivalent of the army after resigning from the Asur equivalent of the marines.
 
Last edited:
Voting is open for the next 14 hours, 59 minutes
Back
Top