Magical Girl Quest - The Fire That Burns
- Thread starter Rukia
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- United States
Not really no.
Alright we would have been knocked to one health.
- Location
- England
And then potentially died.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
If being at 12 health means a person is unconcioous, what does being at 1 health do?
- Location
- England
The looter was going to be knocked unconscious because that was Cerys goal.
I consider having 10/100hp as your body working at 10%
So 1%...
- Location
- Somewhere
What if we had 10,000 HP? 1% would mean we would still have 100 HP which was our initial Total HP.
- Location
- England
Basically this.Astonishingly, an HP system is not necessarily a good indicator of a characters ability to continue to function, or the potential consequences of suffering an injury. Who would have thought?
The 1% = 1hp thing is mostly for normal humans.
If you have more than 100hp then you clearly have some sort of magical assistance, said assistance would make you able to stand up at 1hp compared to being in a coma.
Example, in this fight, you had a lot of the bones in your hands, wrists and arms cracked. Not broken, but it did a lot of damage.
If that had happened to a human, you would have lost those arms.
Zwobot
Pure Lazy
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Ouch that could've gone better - and much worse. Exponential damage increase is pretty nasty!
I don't really see how it could've gone much better. Our reliance on thermal sensing meant we missed the huge scamp, sadly. Maybe something to ask about or test in the future.
A high level Push ability probably could've helped that one guy survive. Or maybe even just higher level Thermal Spear. In fact we probably should start working on that ability more. It's really our only good ranged option that doesn't endanger allies at the moment.
[X] Talk to Karen
Debriefing - and let's see whether she's as reasonable as we think she is.
I don't really see how it could've gone much better. Our reliance on thermal sensing meant we missed the huge scamp, sadly. Maybe something to ask about or test in the future.
A high level Push ability probably could've helped that one guy survive. Or maybe even just higher level Thermal Spear. In fact we probably should start working on that ability more. It's really our only good ranged option that doesn't endanger allies at the moment.
[X] Talk to Karen
Debriefing - and let's see whether she's as reasonable as we think she is.
I've done some playing around with the numbers to see what builds are efficient.
This is only with our current known spells and abilities, anything new can change this.
The first thing is that the exponential power & geometric cost means that focusing one one things is the most efficient in the long run.
Taking multiplicative abilities taken when the multiplies/cost ratio is larger than a extra level.
Using this I find 3 main builds that are powerful long term and also work short term.
Alfa & Omega Tank:
Rely on the exponential nature of Alfa & Omega to kill, spend almost all XP/training on Defensive abilities.
If we can learn to shape our aura to exclude things we can even keep collateral low.
+ surviablity
- slow at killing
Nuclear option:
Focus on Plasma Sphere, it's high base damage makes it the clearly best DPS ability (that does not cost 4000+ XP to get good).
Take a few levels in hp to survive a hit or two. Then rely on overwhelming power to kill.
- large collateral
+ best overall combat ability vs strong opponents.
Spell Knight:
Get Spell Boost then focus on Infinity Edge + defensive options.
This allows us to focus our XP & Training for efficiency but still have decent damage in a variety of spells.
The most versatile option. If we find something new this allows changing build with the least waste.
In any case we want L3 Armored Soul, but latter I would like to try to get L5, to see if it unlocks some better defensive ability.
Also does anyone have exact numbers flight/high-speed combat gives in combat?
This is only with our current known spells and abilities, anything new can change this.
The first thing is that the exponential power & geometric cost means that focusing one one things is the most efficient in the long run.
Taking multiplicative abilities taken when the multiplies/cost ratio is larger than a extra level.
Using this I find 3 main builds that are powerful long term and also work short term.
Alfa & Omega Tank:
Rely on the exponential nature of Alfa & Omega to kill, spend almost all XP/training on Defensive abilities.
If we can learn to shape our aura to exclude things we can even keep collateral low.
+ surviablity
- slow at killing
Nuclear option:
Focus on Plasma Sphere, it's high base damage makes it the clearly best DPS ability (that does not cost 4000+ XP to get good).
Take a few levels in hp to survive a hit or two. Then rely on overwhelming power to kill.
- large collateral
+ best overall combat ability vs strong opponents.
Spell Knight:
Get Spell Boost then focus on Infinity Edge + defensive options.
This allows us to focus our XP & Training for efficiency but still have decent damage in a variety of spells.
The most versatile option. If we find something new this allows changing build with the least waste.
In any case we want L3 Armored Soul, but latter I would like to try to get L5, to see if it unlocks some better defensive ability.
Also does anyone have exact numbers flight/high-speed combat gives in combat?
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- Location
- United States
Explosion Knight:
Get Spell Boost.
Learn to shape Plasma Sphere, or become resistant to its explosions.
Sword everything with plasma sword explosions.
+ Profit
+ Amusement
+ Awesome
+ High Damage
+ Everyone Wants To Be You
- Friendly Fire Unfriendly
- May result in Mahou Shoujo clothing damage scenes
Flight Rank Two is at 10mph right now, looking like 5mph/level.
Get Spell Boost.
Learn to shape Plasma Sphere, or become resistant to its explosions.
Sword everything with plasma sword explosions.
+ Profit
+ Amusement
+ Awesome
+ High Damage
+ Everyone Wants To Be You
- Friendly Fire Unfriendly
- May result in Mahou Shoujo clothing damage scenes
Pretty sure Rank One High-Speed Combat allows up to ~90mph perception and reaction speeds. Dunno about the rest.
Flight Rank Two is at 10mph right now, looking like 5mph/level.
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- Location
- England
Nope. Flight is [Level] * 10 - 10
Just like it is in Crystalwatchers quest.
(Read the manual on the character page)
- Location
- United States
That reminds me of something else. We should really play up the stereotype, develop a flash transformation scene, spout catch phrases, and generally reinforce Gaia's preconceptions of how MGs should work.
Then, twenty years from now, everyone can look back and blame us as the reason they have to go through transformation cutscenes and mid-battle speeches.
Yes but does that have any effect on say enemy attacks?
In this update we got +20 resilience from flight and we have 2 levels of flight. Do we get 10 defense per level of flight or speed*2 ?
Or was this just a special case vs it's throwing attacks?
- Location
- England
Special case via non-instantaneous or homing attacks.
You were about ten metres in the air, well out of it's reach, so it had to throw shit.
Also, flying gives you true 3D manoeuvrability, so you can dodge things.
If the Scamp tried to throw something at you, and you were 20-30 metres in the air, you would have gotten a +100 or +200 flying bonus, because you would have been easily able to react and dodge in time.
If you were just out of it's reach, you would have gotten maybe a +5, because you wouldn't have a chance to react or dodge the projectile.
Speed is also dependant. If you could go from 0-30 in an instant, you would have no chance of getting hit by a small, slow moving attack.
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Zwobot
Pure Lazy
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Uhm... The damage boost from Spell boost doesn't look all that great at the moment actually.
If I'm reading correctly it's a flat bonus of: 10 * (1.2 ** (IE-1)) + 10+5*(IE-1)
IE 5: 51
IE 10: 107
IE 15: 208
IE 20: 424
That's not nothing certainly, but it's additive... In comparison Plasma Sphere and Thermal Lance damage without spell boost:
LVL 5: 311 1244
LVL 10: 773 3095
LVL 15: 1925 7703
LVL 20: 4792 19168
So while I like the spell knight idea, it's just not keeping up. Also I probably messed up some numbers, but the idea stands.
If I'm reading correctly it's a flat bonus of: 10 * (1.2 ** (IE-1)) + 10+5*(IE-1)
IE 5: 51
IE 10: 107
IE 15: 208
IE 20: 424
That's not nothing certainly, but it's additive... In comparison Plasma Sphere and Thermal Lance damage without spell boost:
LVL 5: 311 1244
LVL 10: 773 3095
LVL 15: 1925 7703
LVL 20: 4792 19168
So while I like the spell knight idea, it's just not keeping up. Also I probably messed up some numbers, but the idea stands.
- Location
- England
You are missing the physical sense of combat.
True, spells always do more damage. But they have both a cast time and a limit.
ATM, you can swing your sword twice per turn.
You can only a spell once per turn.
Also, guy in your face -> Hit with sword not hit with explosion with you inside the radius.
TL;DR - Think more like actual combat and less like stats > all, because they don't.
EDIT: Also, your MM will increase beyond +10 per or get other boosts, probably.
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Spectral Waltz
Scatterbrained Writer
- Location
- Walking the Endless Corridors
Yeah but on the other hand given the massive exponential damage of spellcasting over melee, all this really encourages is for us to practice flight until we have enough speed that nothing can get near us and then nuke everything with spells.
- Location
- England
You are the DPS of the
Zwobot
Pure Lazy
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Oh, I was actually talking about the idea of using Spell Boost to get more oomph behind our Spells. And that does fall flat, since it's an additive boost. And doesn't get the multiple attacks, x3 Crush bonus and so on.
- Location
- Where I need to be
People are also forgetting that Rukia had said that there are ways to buff our attacks with the sword, which we haven't worked on at all.
Spells that can increase its damage, or give it other nifty effects
Before we assume that melee is worthless, we need to actually work on finding out ways to buff it, since it was meant to be played with those buffs.
The intent was not to lack any buffs or the base damage would have remained 100 after the overhaul.
We suck at melee because we aren't doing it right.
Spells that can increase its damage, or give it other nifty effects
Before we assume that melee is worthless, we need to actually work on finding out ways to buff it, since it was meant to be played with those buffs.
The intent was not to lack any buffs or the base damage would have remained 100 after the overhaul.
We suck at melee because we aren't doing it right.
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- Location
- United States
So what this is sounding like is that Explosion Knight is the way to do things. Combining high spell DPS with the advantages of melee weaponry.
We just need to learn how to be MORE FIREPROOF. And/or accept that we're going to become an exhibitionist if we can't get clothes that don't burn right off.
We just need to learn how to be MORE FIREPROOF. And/or accept that we're going to become an exhibitionist if we can't get clothes that don't burn right off.
Spectral Waltz
Scatterbrained Writer
- Location
- Walking the Endless Corridors
I'd put odds that our MG outfit/armour is probably pretty good about not getting torn to pieces unless Gaia has been watching some interesting spins on our genre...
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- Location
- Earth
Guys... where is this sudden munchkining coming from?
I really did not expect to wake up to this, even when I like some of those ideas quite a lot.
First of all, we need to get our stuff to work before we can decide what to prioritise.
Secondly, why do some people think we should throw our Plasma Sphere right in front of us? No clothes will be damaged if we use it as intended.
Thirdly, I have to advise everyone that focussing everything we have on only one or two aspects of our character can be detrimental. All it takes for us to get utterly wrecked is an opponent that can use what we do good against us.
The only currently useless thing we have is Ice Sphere. I am confused why we even have it, considering that it does not really do anything and is not worth the effort.
-Infinity Edge is our weapon; still weak but can be buffed and has no additional limit on the number of attacks we dish out in our turn; once we have... about four attacks per turn, the weapon will really start to shine. Also grows some more with Reinforcement, seeing that it increases our Base Damage by 5% per Level; 30% extra at this point is not much, but that can become much more pretty soon.
-Plasma Sphere is our high damage option, which we only use against things that would not die from anything else because it also destroys our surroundings and sets them on fire; we do not always have the chance to crank up Alpha & Omega.
-Thermal Spear is our ranged option, which we use while engaging or to kite enemies around; Freeze also allows us to have some amount of crowd control because enemies get immobilised upon being hit
-Push does no real damage and never will; what it does is keeping dangerous things away from us and those fighting by our side. This is important when we go to the field with allies
-Iginition Aura is our core Ability; it deals damage all around and reduces damage we take. Granted, Plasma Sphere does all it does and better, but the aura will become superior again with time. It also comes with the added benefit of not setting Cerys' clothes on fire when she uses it against opponents swarming around her.
-Alpha and Omega is the end and also our Screw You against spellcasters once we bought the Item. We use this against opponents that nothing else can kill and hope we live long enough for it to work; the perfect Ability to take down a tank
To sum up, Plasma Sphere and A&O are our main options against Bosses while Thermal Spear, Ignition Aura and Infinity Edge will take down the regular enemies and small fry. Push and Thermal Spear are our crowd control.
Our main utility options are Thermal Control (which is already used plenty) and Flight; greater mobility is pretty useful... and we need to check if we can get Boosted Flight, which is basically being able to accelerate and decelerate at will, as well as changing direction without having to slow down and speed up first
Otherwise, we have Armoured Soul, Plate Armour and Regeneration... and I can see the probelm already.
Cerys is no tank. She is not supposed to be, which this shows very well: our Health and Resilience modifiers are separate and have to be leveled separately; this takes twice as much time as an actual tank should have, whose modifiers will be unified in one Ability. Our healing factor would need training as well for this to be viable, so it really is not.
If anything, taking a level here and there when we have our damage further up should be fine... but tanking this can never be our main means of action. We are supposed to have a tank standing in front of us anyway, so please keep that in mind.
I understand the people who ran the numbers and found whichever is optimal, but there is more one has to think about than what does the most damage. Plasma Sphere's Detonate is very likely to become Collateral Damage or even Apocalypse in due time... which means that it will destroy even larger areas when cast. We can not use it on everything and hope to get away with it.
Additionally, there is no "short term". Rukia already stated that we will be playing over years, so we should prepare to play the long game instead.
tl,dr: we need everything... except that weird Ice Sphere. It is a good balance that we should seek, not specialisation in one or two of our options.
I really did not expect to wake up to this, even when I like some of those ideas quite a lot.
First of all, we need to get our stuff to work before we can decide what to prioritise.
Secondly, why do some people think we should throw our Plasma Sphere right in front of us? No clothes will be damaged if we use it as intended.
Thirdly, I have to advise everyone that focussing everything we have on only one or two aspects of our character can be detrimental. All it takes for us to get utterly wrecked is an opponent that can use what we do good against us.
The only currently useless thing we have is Ice Sphere. I am confused why we even have it, considering that it does not really do anything and is not worth the effort.
-Infinity Edge is our weapon; still weak but can be buffed and has no additional limit on the number of attacks we dish out in our turn; once we have... about four attacks per turn, the weapon will really start to shine. Also grows some more with Reinforcement, seeing that it increases our Base Damage by 5% per Level; 30% extra at this point is not much, but that can become much more pretty soon.
-Plasma Sphere is our high damage option, which we only use against things that would not die from anything else because it also destroys our surroundings and sets them on fire; we do not always have the chance to crank up Alpha & Omega.
-Thermal Spear is our ranged option, which we use while engaging or to kite enemies around; Freeze also allows us to have some amount of crowd control because enemies get immobilised upon being hit
-Push does no real damage and never will; what it does is keeping dangerous things away from us and those fighting by our side. This is important when we go to the field with allies
-Iginition Aura is our core Ability; it deals damage all around and reduces damage we take. Granted, Plasma Sphere does all it does and better, but the aura will become superior again with time. It also comes with the added benefit of not setting Cerys' clothes on fire when she uses it against opponents swarming around her.
-Alpha and Omega is the end and also our Screw You against spellcasters once we bought the Item. We use this against opponents that nothing else can kill and hope we live long enough for it to work; the perfect Ability to take down a tank
To sum up, Plasma Sphere and A&O are our main options against Bosses while Thermal Spear, Ignition Aura and Infinity Edge will take down the regular enemies and small fry. Push and Thermal Spear are our crowd control.
Our main utility options are Thermal Control (which is already used plenty) and Flight; greater mobility is pretty useful... and we need to check if we can get Boosted Flight, which is basically being able to accelerate and decelerate at will, as well as changing direction without having to slow down and speed up first
Otherwise, we have Armoured Soul, Plate Armour and Regeneration... and I can see the probelm already.
Cerys is no tank. She is not supposed to be, which this shows very well: our Health and Resilience modifiers are separate and have to be leveled separately; this takes twice as much time as an actual tank should have, whose modifiers will be unified in one Ability. Our healing factor would need training as well for this to be viable, so it really is not.
If anything, taking a level here and there when we have our damage further up should be fine... but tanking this can never be our main means of action. We are supposed to have a tank standing in front of us anyway, so please keep that in mind.
I understand the people who ran the numbers and found whichever is optimal, but there is more one has to think about than what does the most damage. Plasma Sphere's Detonate is very likely to become Collateral Damage or even Apocalypse in due time... which means that it will destroy even larger areas when cast. We can not use it on everything and hope to get away with it.
Additionally, there is no "short term". Rukia already stated that we will be playing over years, so we should prepare to play the long game instead.
tl,dr: we need everything... except that weird Ice Sphere. It is a good balance that we should seek, not specialisation in one or two of our options.
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