Into that Vast and Unrelenting Darkness (40K Xeno Civilization Quest)

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also even if helping the auto vessels wouldn't of given us massive benefits its still the right thing to do to help them none of this real poltic bullshit like what does it benefit us you mean beyond helping a group enslaved to a virus aka the right thing to do that to me should be enough after all we are not the imperium who only helped others for what it benefits them or hurts innocents for it benefits them
 
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DragonParadox said:
I get that we have OOC information that they would actually join us, but from what we can see in character there isn't much indication that they would join us instantly. After all the ships did not join us even though what we did for them is utterly identical to what we would be doing for the machine intelligences of the CPU moon. It feels somewhat gamey to react to a (minor let us be clear) unfriendly action and a cold shoulder with 'OMG we have been too slow to help our good friends the Automites'. It's like we are helping them because they are good guy coded and this is Mass Effect style loyalty quest at this point.

Just a quibble I have with the whole thing, nothing major, but I thought it would be worth explaining my general 'meh' feelings towards them for what they are and not some kind of overwhelming urge to play realpolitik in the space ferret quest
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Because we have ignored them for centuries, of course there is no big sign of us able to integrate them and if we want to change that we have to consistently help them now so that we may salvage this situation, most likely integrating them will be harder but that is no excuse to abandon them. If we decide to abandon them what will most likely happen is that they may have to wait centuries more for them to liberate the moon themselves and when that happens, we will have a polity close to us that will definitely not like us.
 
RentingViewer said:
Because we have ignored them for centuries, of course there is no big sign of us able to integrate them and if we want to change that we have to consistently help them now so that we may salvage this situation, most likely integrating them will be harder but that is no excuse to abandon them. If we decide to abandon them what will most likely happen is that they may have to wait centuries more for them to liberate the moon themselves and when that happens we will have a polity close to us that will definitely not like us.
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They don't have warp drives and lifeforce alone isn't going to help them with it, but I see your point.
 
You know what. Once I'm home ill write up a plan that does the Endeavor reactor printer and finish the Hypertek forge so that we'll have no fucking excuse for not shoving out at least one or two Endeavor each turn.

Our reticence to actually build the fucking ships for the sake of more 'efficient' infrastructure has crippled our ability to explore and respond to situations and aid our friends.

A significant part of our failure with the Autonites can be laid at not having fucking ships to help them with every turn. No fucking more.
 
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I dont understand this argument at all - at the start of this quest we took the idealistic nation option and now people are annoyed that people would want us to act idealistic? and of course they would steal that stuff we made an agreement with them (help them get their people out of SLAVERY) and then essentially broke it (its been over a hundred years most of out people who negotiated that are dead by now)
and again there people are enslaved of course they are going to do what they can to fix that
 
RentingViewer said:
Because we have ignored them for centuries, of course there is no big sign of us able to integrate them and if we want to change that we have to consistently help them now so that we may salvage this situation, most likely integrating them will be harder but that is no excuse to abandon them. If we decide to abandon them what will most likely happen is that they may have to wait centuries more for them to liberate the moon themselves and when that happens, we will have a polity close to us that will definitely not like us.
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The post you are quoting is about why I do not find them compelling OOC (it feels unrealistic/gamey for us to act this way IC). I can say with some confidence that hammering on how it is moral isn't going to change that

I am not sure why people feel the need to hammer on my very milk-toast 'are we sure these guys are still worth it?' followed by an explanation for why I personally do not find them compelling like I just suggested burning the witch shunning the mutant and worshiping the Emperor.
 
I'm going to need a hot minute to read through everything I missed, but I still need to get my plan out ahead of me first. All our obligations to the Khimer, Autonites, Hobbgrotts, and dealing with the Chaos, along with preventing anything from majority-completing.

Fleet: 3/3
Expansion: 105/105
Culture: 64/89(64)
Faith: 34/84(34)
Academy: 76/76

[] Plan: Assistance to Khimer and Autonites
-[] Fleet Actions
--[] Drydock
---[] TKK Valiant
--[] Explore Galactic West
---[] TKK Accomplishment
--[] Liberate Forbidden Archive +1 Art
---[] TKK Discovery
-[] Expansion Projects
--[] Water Drop (0/20 --> 105/20) +60 Khimer Rep
-[] Culture Projects
--[] The Assembler Academy of Actualized Acceptance (5/10 --> 10/10)
--[] Lunar Consulls (0/25 --> 25/25) -1 Network
--[] Frontier Academy Compartment (0/25 --> 9/25)
--[] Kelp4Metal (0/25 --> 25/25) +5 Khimer Rep
-[] Faith Projects
--[] Name of the Booug (8/10 --> 10/10)
--[] //PATH TekTalismans (10/25 --> 23/25)
--[] WarpTek Altar (4/10 --> 10/10) +1 Warp
--[] Polar Tower of the Hermit (0/50 --> 13/50)
-[] Academy Projects
--[] Autonite Cloning Lab (0/25 --> 25/25) +1 Biodata
--[] GrotTeknikal (0/25 --> 25/25)
--[] WardTerminal Control Nexus (0/25 --> 25/25)
--[] HoloTek (0/25 --> 1/25)
-[] Resource Management
--[] Artifacts: 4 --> 5
--[] Biodata: 6 --> 7
--[] Living Metal: 1
--[] Network: 3 --> 2
--[] Nuclear Material: 3
--[] Warp: 1 --> 2
--[] Khimer Rep: 24 --> 89
 
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Griff1203 said:
I dont understand this argument at all - at the start of this quest we took the idealistic nation option and now people are annoyed that people would want us to act idealistic?
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It's not so much acting idealistic but feeling like we are being taken advantage of. The fact that they are stealing and even attacking us and we are responding with 'sorry we forgot about you, here's some stuff' feels bad when we never signed any obligations like we did with the other civs and they never sent any form of complaint.
 
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Amilia said:
It's not so much acting idealistic but feeling like we are being taken advantage of. The fact that they are stealing and even attacking us and we are responding with 'sorry we forgot about you, here's some stuff' feels bad when we never signed any obligations like we the other civs and they never sent any form of complaint.
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This, thank you. I would be perfectly satisfied if we could at least send a letter of protest, something that says -5 Directorate Opinion. Yes we are idealistic, that is not the same thing as being saints. Like Horus was a jackbooted thug, even he had a moment of what might be thought of as idealism with the Interrex. It would be nice to be the opposite of that, generally idealistic, but with some capacity to speak up when we are taken advantage of and insulted on top of it.
 
Fleet: 3/3
Expansion: 105/105
Culture: 64/89(64)
Faith: 34/84(34)
Academy: 76/76
[] Plan: No More Excuses Against Ships
-[] Fleet Actions
--[] Drydock
---[] TKK Valiant
--[] Merchant Marine Exchange
---[] TKK Accomplishment for TKK Emissary
--[] Support Autovessels
---[] TKK Emissary
--[] Liberate Forbidden Archive +1 Art
---[] TKK Discovery
-[] Expansion Projects
--[] Ship Power Core (11/15 --> 15/15) -3 NM
--[] Secure Holding (10/10) -1 Warp, -1 Art
--[] Endeavor Reactor Printer (30/30) -3 NM
--[] MegaHaulers (16/25)
--[] Ship Troop Transport Compartment (25/25)
--[] Sandscorn Water Drop (20/20) +10 Khimer Rep
-[] Culture Projects
--[] The Assembler Academy of Actualized Acceptance (5/10 --> 10/10)
--[] Merchant Marine Doctrine (25/25)
--[] Frontier Academy Compartment (0/25 --> 9/25)
--[] Kelp4Metal (0/25 --> 25/25) +5 Khimer Rep
-[] Faith Projects
--[] Name of the Booug (8/10 --> 10/10)
--[] //PATH TekTalismans (10/25 --> 23/25)
--[] WarpTek Altar (4/10 --> 10/10) +1 Warp
--[] Polar Tower of the Hermit (0/50 --> 13/50)
-[] Academy Projects
--[] Autonite Cloning Lab (0/25 --> 25/25) +1 Biodata
--[] HyperTek Forge (10/50-->50/50) +10 NM, -3 Art, -1 Network
--[] GrotTeknikal (11/25)
-[] Resource Management
--[] Artifacts: 4 --> 1
--[] Biodata: 6 --> 7
--[] Living Metal: 1
--[] Network: 3 --> 2
--[] Nuclear Material: 3 --> 7
--[] Warp: 1 --> 1
--[] Khimer Rep: 24 --> 39

Right, here's my plan folks. This plan is primarily focused on getting us set up for spamming out Endeavors either next turn or the turn after so that we can finally fucking have the ships needed for all our commitments.

Complete Endeavor reactor printer and Ship Power Core. Do Hypertek Forge for the Nuclear material.

Here's my view on how the next few turns can go. If my plan wins, we build two or three Endeavors next turn, *then* we do the water drop the turn after in turn 30. We have 5 turns to do the water drop.
 
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banelord said:
We NEED to sort out those secret projects for the autonites, because if we pump those out then next turn we can jump into CPU moon and actually restart their fucking civilization.

Also for people saying "Well we should have left the humans to the exodites and drukhari," let me provide you three points. Point 1: Practically the exodites have a population in the millions normally, and have lost 70% of their population, as well as having no industrial capability. They CANNOT hold the prisoners. Point 2: The Drukhari are not our friends, weren't even belligerents in the war and were called in as an emergency favour. Point 3: ETHICAL CONSIDERATIONS ARE NOT OPTIONAL. We are a Trek civilization, and if the option is imprison and deal with tens of thousands of soldiers, or leave them to be slaughtered and enslaved we do not have an option, we have an imperative. So stop arguing, because that's a flat out conceit of the Tekket federation.
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You are correct. Ethical considerations are not optional. In this case it's definitely fine cause the Aeldari don't seem to care. But what about the next time this occurs. What happens if we stumble unto another peer ftl civilization in the process of being genocided by the Destroyers or the Orks or another hostile sentient race and save them and when the fighting done they demand we hand over our prisoners to be tried and executed for war crimes according to said politys laws? Is it ethical to deny them and enforce our own Justice upon another peer civilization? Is that not something that should be considered?
 
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Titanic Toxicity said:
You are correct. Ethical considerations are not optional. In this case it's definitely fine cause the Aeldari don't seem to care. But what about the next time this occurs. What happens if we stumble unto another peer ftl civilization in the process of being genocided by the Destroyers or the Orks or another hostile sentient race and save them and when the fighting done they demand we hand over our prisoners to be tried and executed for war crimes according to said politys laws? Is it ethical to deny them and enforce our own Justice upon another peer civilization? Is that not something that should be considered?
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You're describing a classic Trek plot we'll have to deal with when we come to it. For now we were able to keep these people from being executed, and have some chance of getting them to a place they can atone in some way, which is always going to be the goal of the Directorate in these situations even if there forced to bend in some way.
 
Titanic Toxicity said:
You are correct. Ethical considerations are not optional. In this case it's definitely fine cause the Aeldari don't seem to care. But what about the next time this occurs. What happens if we stumble unto another peer ftl civilization in the process of being genocided by the Destroyers or the Orks or another hostile sentient race and save them and when the fighting done they demand we hand over our prisoners to be tried and executed for war crimes according to said politys laws? Is it ethical to deny them and enforce our own Justice upon another peer civilization? Is that not something that should be considered?
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Arguably yes it is moral to deny the executions since capital punishment laws are not inherently just simply because the victims suffered. Laws only matter in themselves if you care about sovereignty and that is not a question of morality, it's a question of international politics.
 
So, I actually think that not picking the prison for CSM project thisb urn is a valid play. Mind, it's probably a hazard roll, but I think it is a hazard roll with advantage: they are fewx they have all the guns in the system pointed at their ship, which is probably largely turned off and broken. So, like, what can they do? Probably some damage, but I think we have a decent shot of preventing them from doing damage.
 
Aliya said:
So, I actually think that not picking the prison for CSM project thisb urn is a valid play. Mind, it's probably a hazard roll, but I think it is a hazard roll with advantage: they are fewx they have all the guns in the system pointed at their ship, which is probably largely turned off and broken. So, like, what can they do? Probably some damage, but I think we have a decent shot of preventing them from doing damage.
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Didn't the Tekkets already almost get wiped out by one ship of Destroyers? Sure they had help, but we shouldn't just assume that these one aren't dangerous. We have a project that says we need to immediately do it for a reason.
 
ReaperofInterest said:
Didn't the Tekkets already almost get wiped out by one ship of Destroyers? Sure they had help, but we shouldn't just assume that these one aren't dangerous. We have a project that says we need to immediately do it for a reason.
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Yeah, but it was full force with guard and admech support, not a relatively small group of PoW. At most they might somehow manage to ram our infrastructure, but I doubt they actually could do significant damage barring some shenanigans like nat 1 on hazard and nat 10 on severity, which is unlikely.
 
ReaperofInterest said:
Didn't the Tekkets already almost get wiped out by one ship of Destroyers? Sure they had help, but we shouldn't just assume that these one aren't dangerous. We have a project that says we need to immediately do it for a reason.
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There is also the fact that we just learned about Chaos and these guys serve them. I think that would have spooked the Directorate. Even if they do not believe everything, even one tenth of what they heard is enough to give our population nightmares IMO and it would be the population who decides.
 
ReaperofInterest said:
Didn't the Tekkets already almost get wiped out by one ship of Destroyers? Sure they had help, but we shouldn't just assume that these one aren't dangerous. We have a project that says we need to immediately do it for a reason.
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Sure, but these Destroyers have been disarmed and are on derelict ships with a fleets' worth of guns pointed at them. The danger to me isn't so much them actually causing damage, it's them making a big enough nuisance of themselves that we have to blow up them and their ships.
 
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Amilia said:
But the prison is for CSM and chaos cultists. We are mostly building the prison so they can't summon deamons.

And I don't want to deal with an incursion if I don't have to.
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No, the prison is for CSM specifically. Cultists are part of the rehab program, from my understanding.
 
Amilia said:
But the prison is for CSM and chaos cultists. We are mostly building the prison so they can't summon deamons.

And I don't want to deal with an incursion if I don't have to.
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This

Can we not fend off hoards of demons if we can do shit to prevent them from being summoned in the first place? Because Chaos corruption can do as much damage as these guys just shooting everything to pieces.
 
IronBig21 said:
This

Can we not fend off hoards of demons if we can do shit to prevent them from being summoned in the first place? Because Chaos corruption can do as much damage as these guys just shooting everything to pieces.
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But, like, with what will they be summoning demons? They won't have chaff to sacrifice, only... Themselves, and given how they yeeted their commanders over unwinnable battle, I don't think suicide play is likely.
 
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