I think what it is maybe is that Jade doesn't like seeing herself as someone who needs affection.
Ignition (MTG/Multicross, Planeswalker PC)
- Thread starter Alivaril
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- fairy tail magi: the labyrinth of magic magic the gathering magical girl lyrical nanoha (magical girl) puella magi madoka magica rwby alternate universe spoilers unreliable narrator earned your happy middle feedback appreciated life slowly gets better metaknowledge is overrated never too much fire setting knowledge not required this can only end well what could possibly go wrong?
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I think my vote from before is the best way to go.
[X]Accept, The responsibility makes you a bit uneasy, but that just means you'll have to be sure to do it right.
Maybe, but my thought process is like this:
Much like our discussion centered around how Sidhe was offering her full trust to Jade and on how Jade should consider this as much of a duty to Sidhe it obligates Sidhe to Jade, I kind of expected Jade to pick up on that, and she did have a few thoughts to that effect. Therefore, if she didn't consider the full implications of how she thought about Sidhe, then I'm disappointed in her because it's the most important part of her role, and something she's focused on heavily on the past. If she did consider it, then I'm disappointed in her for going ahead anyway given the thoughts in her head about Sidhe.
So if anything, giving Jade too much credit?
But is not even like it hasn't happened before, or that Jade didn't appreciate it. We even thanked Nanoha for helping us out after the fact. e: and I'm not referring to just once either.
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We or Jade? Because the first is being polite, the second is being honest.
Jade did it on a vote? Not sure what distinction you're making, Jade seemed genuinely grateful.
- Location
- A single human dimension
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Further elaboration may be necessary. The "mostly" in the trust department isn't as bad as it may have sounded, and is mainly due to two types of magic: mind reading and mind-affecting.
For mind reading: Jade doesn't even trust herself not to go out and satisfy curiosity if she learns how to easily read thoughts, horrible invasion of privacy or no. Why would she do so for someone who's arguably even more curious than she is, and is really very good at mind-related magic?
Mind-affecting: Jade believes Sidhe would do what she thinks is the right thing, but Jade also believes Sidhe comes from a backward medieval culture and was raised by a non-human who thought threats of abandonment, eventual actual abandonment, and a spell which resulted in torture were all OK. As another example, presumably Sidhe thought there was something wrong with same-sex couples when they first met, although she's certainly over that by now.
Jade thinks Sidhe would immediately stop if she were ever called out on an offending action, but she should still be watched when mind-affecting magic is an option. Speaking of watching, Jade feels like it might be a good idea to carefully watch both Sidhe and Agneyastra when they're interacting. If Jade doesn't, Agneyastra might convert Sidhe to "Alignment: Neutral Jade."
...If she hasn't already...
For mind reading: Jade doesn't even trust herself not to go out and satisfy curiosity if she learns how to easily read thoughts, horrible invasion of privacy or no. Why would she do so for someone who's arguably even more curious than she is, and is really very good at mind-related magic?
Mind-affecting: Jade believes Sidhe would do what she thinks is the right thing, but Jade also believes Sidhe comes from a backward medieval culture and was raised by a non-human who thought threats of abandonment, eventual actual abandonment, and a spell which resulted in torture were all OK. As another example, presumably Sidhe thought there was something wrong with same-sex couples when they first met, although she's certainly over that by now.
Jade thinks Sidhe would immediately stop if she were ever called out on an offending action, but she should still be watched when mind-affecting magic is an option. Speaking of watching, Jade feels like it might be a good idea to carefully watch both Sidhe and Agneyastra when they're interacting. If Jade doesn't, Agneyastra might convert Sidhe to "Alignment: Neutral Jade."
...If she hasn't already...
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I'm not sure why some people seem to think this came out of nowhere. This update just put into words the attitude I had already understood Jade to have about Sidhe.
It's not like she doesn't mentally roll her eyes in disgust every time Sidhe interjects a jerkish comment, they honestly don't get along all that well.
It's not like she doesn't mentally roll her eyes in disgust every time Sidhe interjects a jerkish comment, they honestly don't get along all that well.
Man, even the GM gets my meaning backwards.
- Location
- A single human dimension
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Er, that wasn't necessarily directed at you. Other people were making comments on trust which were not 100% in line with what you were saying.
Whether Jade was honest about how she really felt or thanked and felt grateful because it was the right thing to do. Or maybe she just accepted it because she can't change the past. One can not retroactively decline help.
What was the situation in question? I'll look for it.
What is this supposed to mean?
- Location
- Bowling Green
[X] Skip ahead to taking Sidhe's oaths. You can try comforting her afterward.
Mostly, it seemed sincere to me because Jade expanded on the vote significantly.
sainen
Elder Lich
assuming I parsed it correctly then on the Good/Neutral/Evil and Lawful/Neutral/Chaos (Dungeons and Dragons), Neutral Jade alignment would be anything Jade wants is the right thing to do whether it's good, evil, lawful, or chaotic.
Not sure if useful but I just remembered one piece of the puzzle, when Jade wrote about Sidhe towards Nanoha:
I'm curious on the "sorta-adopted" definition. It's true, bur could it be used somehow?
I really don't know what to do with this vote
I'm curious on the "sorta-adopted" definition. It's true, bur could it be used somehow?
"Then I'll have to live up to your trust" ? Or something like that.
I really don't know what to do with this vote
Or Jade being nervous because of social. She herself mentioned that she was rambling there.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
Jade is lawful good, because whatever jade wants is both lawful and good.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
One thing we can't do after this is let Sidhe just fade into the background again.
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
Okay, that helps. If that's the case, hm. How much does Jade care for Sidhe outside that?
Jade considers Sidhe a good friend, enough that she feels comfortable saying that she treasures her and her friendship. Her first thought is to comfort Sidhe. And Jade apparently trusts Sidhe enough that the only reason she doesn't trust her fully is because Sidhe has access to mental magic, which Jade wouldn't even trust herself with. At least Jade's being consistent there, and I think that that's worth taking into account.
Now that I look at it more closely, most of Jade's complaints about not wanting to define Sidhe as family boil down to lingering anxiety issues that closely parallel things we've talked about before re: this retainer position. For example:
Additionally, this:
These qualifications for being a sister are... kind of extreme. Like, yes, Jade isn't going to turn to Sidhe if she's upset, she's going to turn to Agneyastra. I think that measuring Sidhe against Agneyastra's standard is kind of incredibly unfair.
Throw in the fact that Jade is focusing on the negatives right now - she's listing out all the reasons she disagrees with our vote instead of listing any agreements - I don't think that this picture is as bad as it seems.
Between this and Sidhe's complete lack of peers for her entire life - that is, correcting for Sidhe's words misrepresenting the strength of her feelings in the other direction - I have a feeling that Jade's and Sidhe's feelings for each other are in the same ballpark. I think that Jade's overthinking things and has standards that are making her thoughts sound worse than they are.
Also, consider the default votes:
Jade enjoys Sidhe's presence; remember that Jade is not shy about noting when she doesn't get along with someone. Jade really likes Sidhe. Jade treasures Sidhe. Jade trusts Sidhe enough to call her out as a morality pet. Which is honestly kind of a big deal, given the arguments we had with Agneyastra about divinity and the slippery slope. Hell, given the influence that Agneyastra's demonstrated over Nanoha in the past, I wouldn't be surprised if Jade trusts Sidhe more than anybody in the world that's not Agneyastra.
edit:
"Glorified hanger-on" but also "family"?
Unrelated:
We should probably start paying some attention to this. Jade's dropping some fairly big hints.
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- Location
- The Outer Plane Of Munchkinry.
I feel like we should say something like "I am not good at this" because we are now hugging her and have no idea what to say.
Maybe we could say something about what she already is in a effort to not make her feel like she needs to stay as any one thing? Something like "i appreciate you"?
Edit: We need to make it about her being good rather then about fitting her into a position that makes her good
Maybe we could say something about what she already is in a effort to not make her feel like she needs to stay as any one thing? Something like "i appreciate you"?
Edit: We need to make it about her being good rather then about fitting her into a position that makes her good
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Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
actions speak louder than words, and i'm pretty sure Jade not being good at persons is well known by her friends.
Nixeu
Lord of Madness, Harbinger of Llamas
- Location
- Your nightmares.
I don't think so? I suspect she mostly just did it because hormones suck and often interfere with SCIENCE! Unless you have a partner who can aid in SCIENCE! Then, you get Armsy and Dragon, or Agatha and Gil/Tarvek (take your pick).
That would indeed be one possible use. Also buff spells? Unless that's shifted more to Red?
Eh. To some degree, you see it a lot in people who have been through hell-and-back together. The phrase 'brothers-in-arms' is a good one. It's also not uncommon in those who have either lost family, or left it behind. We're social animals, and family-like bonds can form between people who have enough contact with each other. What the hell else are you going to call it?
Probably most of it. See: Mitra's little talk with Sidhe and Nanoha.
I'm honestly not sure Jade would know a sibling-like relationship if it bit her on the nose. Or any non-parental-like familial-like bond. Like...it seems fairly clear she either didn't have any living relatives on either side of her family on PMMM, or they didn't want her. And her cousins in MGLN are...I mean, some are kinda nice? Maybe?
My half-brother and I are about 7 years apart in age (7 years, six months, and three days, technically), so I do have vague memories of being an only child (we're about as close as full sibilings). It's not really at all the same.
Um...you do realize they interact a lot positively off-screen, right? Like...Sidhe is Jade's SCIENCE! buddy. And Jade likes science. I've always gotten the impression Jade enjoyed doing science research with Sidhe an enormous amount, despite it occasionally going directions she didn't like.
Yeah...I don't really lean on my younger brother too much for comfort, not when I'm in really bad shape. Kinda the opposite, really, since I tend to be there to comfort him. Jade's just more the big sister type, I think. She prefers to comfort, rather than be comforted, at least with those she doesn't consider providers/parental figures.
Except that Sidhe didn't have siblings either. How is that different?
Nixeu
Lord of Madness, Harbinger of Llamas
- Location
- Your nightmares.
Never said she did. I just think she can see it easier than Jade.
Jade's family has actively tried to kill her, is likely to do so again in the future, and are terrible people, with a few exceptions, by her morals. Sidhe doesn't seem to have anywhere near that level of negative emotions about her blood-relatives, and may even have been encouraged to see other Dragon Slayers as extended family. Her view of it doesn't seem to be as warped as Jade's is, as a result.
Jade's got so much pain wrapped up in the idea of 'family' that it took an enormous amount of time, effort, and lots of voices in her head pointing it out for her to accept that she saw Astra as a surrogate mother. It may take a similarly long time for her to feel she's got a sibling-like relationship with Sidhe.
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