It sounds like equipping the Djinn doesn't have any cost associated with it, so it shouldn't be at all hard to get a demonstration once we've found a King Vessel, but it might be worth figuring out an efficient way to find one.
  • Conquer a Dungeon, ask the Djinn if they know any Djinn goings-on in the outside world and if so if they can give us any pointers.
  • Learn the language, have Agneyastra listen to gossip and read people's mail.
  • Head for high-population cities and hope one of them is a capital? If there are only a couple of Kings running around at any given time that might not work.
  • Scan for energy signatures?
 
Can Jade be voted to mentally review all the times she did consider Sidhe to be family?
Did she ever?
...You know, while we have said we want to find a teacher to help us master Djinn Equip, I don't think we've considered how we're going to find them. It's not like all of them are going to advertise the fact, like Sinbad did. Djinn might be able to teach us some, but I think a King Vessel that can demonstrate how would be better.

...Find the capital with the highest mana production?
Probably via a targeted planeswalk. But having a backup plan is good. Maybe something like we did on Velgarth: visit towns, gather info.
 
We want someone to demonstrate it.

We can ask a Djinn first for sure. But the main point was letting Agneyastra model it.
If that's the case, we'll certainly want a King Vessel. That might be a tad complicated. Like I said, I don't think we have a good way to find one. And we've unfortunately not had any dreams on the subject. And hitting the highest mana location would be using OOC information...hm.

...I don't think we have many options other than seeing what information we can pick up. If we're lucky, the Djinn who have chosen Candidates are still in contact with the other Djinn, and we can figure out where the King Vessel we'd want to teach us would be. We'd probably prefer one with a close link to a Magi, those tend to know more about what they're doing.
 
Triple-near-simultaneous posting. Well played, V and curiosity, well played.

Edit: ...Or the page just didn't update, one of the two.
It sounds like equipping the Djinn doesn't have any cost associated with it, so it shouldn't be at all hard to get a demonstration once we've found a King Vessel, but it might be worth figuring out an efficient way to find one.
Well...it does require a certain level of skill. And it does eat up Magoi, in canon, which is similar to mana, I think. Or maybe Aura. We don't know for certain.
  • Conquer a Dungeon, ask the Djinn if they know any Djinn goings-on in the outside world and if so if they can give us any pointers.
  • Learn the language, have Agneyastra listen to gossip and read people's mail.
  • Head for high-population cities and hope one of them is a capital? If there are only a couple of Kings running around at any given time that might not work.
  • Scan for energy signatures?
In order:
-That's an option, though I was hoping they might let us pinpoint the locations of KVs.
-Also an option, though I don't recall mail being a thing in Magi.
-Not every king is a King Vessel. Usually, they need to be associated with a Magi to become one. The largest and strongest kingdoms are the most likely to have King Vessels or Magi support, from what I can tell, but there's no guarantee they do. It's not clear what the usual numbers are, since Judar and Yunan kinda sowed chaos and inflated the numbers due to their random raising of Dungeons. But probably not more than...call it 30? At any given time. And I'm stating my high-end number, there. It could be a lot less.
-That...is probably the best option we have, come to think of it. A collection of King Vessels would indicate a high probability of a Magi, and would, in either case, give us lots of potential teachers.
 
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When she wrote the letter to Nanoha she said she adopted Sidhe. There was also another example given pages back, but I forgot what it was.

But yeah, Jade didn't want to tell Sidhe she was family because she didn't want to lie, however she had already said as much to Nanoha in her letter.

Reminding herself could get her over that hurdle. Problem is in my experience many people take hesitation for lying. (even when they ambush you with a non-sequiter question that you aren't giving any thought to at the moment.)
 
[x] Tell her you think you're lucky to have her too. You like her as a person and you don't intend to let anything get in the way of that.
[x] She's putting a lot of faith in you. You worry that you're not yet capable of treating that the way she deserves. But you're going to try.
[x] Proceed as planned.
 
[x] Tell her you think you're lucky to have her too. You like her as a person and you don't intend to let anything get in the way of that.
[x] She's putting a lot of faith in you. You worry that you're not yet capable of treating that the way she deserves. But you're going to try.
[x] Proceed as planned.
 
[x] Tell her you think you're lucky to have her too. You like her as a person and you don't intend to let anything get in the way of that.
[x] She's putting a lot of faith in you. You worry that you're not yet capable of treating that the way she deserves. But you're going to try.
[x] Proceed as planned.
 
You know who we should talk to about this Family thing? Nanoha. She won't be affected by not being considered family, and she has a big one of her own, but they aren't Agneyastra-standard given that she was willing to spend months away.
 
I wonder, if Jade and Sidhe might have different ideas on Family vs Friend (or otherwise not family) - if the awsner is yes then the difference may not be a huge issue. I mean consider Jade's history with family before Mom. Jade flat out said she went from a family of one to a family of two. So it could be Jade puts a higher threshold on 'family'. Sidhe meanwhile is working inside the social constructs of her own upbringing. So what they both wish from the relationship may not be too different... merely what they call it.

Sidhe may not be family, but she is more then a mere friend. She's an ally, confidant (given how we value her paranoia on many matters) and advisor. We tried to formalize this somewhat by bringing her into Jade's household as an 'official' confidant but Sidhe wishes to cement the relationship even more so. The first approach was meant to keep her as a peer, a near equal to Jade, but Sidhe has decided that putting herself into a subordinate position to Jade is acceptable for moving closer toward Jade's inner social circles.

[x] Tell her you think you're lucky to have her too. You like her as a person and you don't intend to let anything get in the way of that.
[x] She's putting a lot of faith in you. You worry that you're not yet capable of treating that the way she deserves. But you're going to try.
[x] Proceed as planned.
 
I wonder, if Jade and Sidhe might have different ideas on Family vs Friend (or otherwise not family) - if the awsner is yes then the difference may not be a huge issue. I mean consider Jade's history with family before Mom. Jade flat out said she went from a family of one to a family of two. So it could be Jade puts a higher threshold on 'family'. Sidhe meanwhile is working inside the social constructs of her own upbringing. So what they both wish from the relationship may not be too different... merely what they call it.

Sidhe may not be family, but she is more then a mere friend. She's an ally, confidant (given how we value her paranoia on many matters) and advisor. We tried to formalize this somewhat by bringing her into Jade's household as an 'official' confidant but Sidhe wishes to cement the relationship even more so. The first approach was meant to keep her as a peer, a near equal to Jade, but Sidhe has decided that putting herself into a subordinate position to Jade is acceptable for moving closer toward Jade's inner social circles.
Jade's definition of family is pretty much 100% screwed up.
  • Dad died, which hurts so much that Jade isn't willing to even think about it.
  • Mom betrayed her.
  • Indira has a reasonable chance of being flat-out genocidal.
  • Agneyastra is Agneyastra.
  • Agneyastra's first action as a member of Jade's family was to reinforce the princess-y-ness of that entire thing.
Sidhe's got her own issues.
  • Whatever happened to her birth family.
  • Dragon-mom rescued and then abandoned her.
  • Zero social peers ever.
  • Jade.
edit: Hell, even Agneyastra's idea of family is probably fucked.
  • The whole royalty thing.
  • Historical Agni. Branch families, promotion and demotion between the royal family and the branch families, political marriages.
  • Jade rescuing her, then growing close just on their own, not depending on the hard-coded loyalty stuff.
So, long story short, none of them have any idea how to family. edit: Nanoha is absolutely the right person to talk to about all this.

I'm trying to figure out if this whole retainer thing will be good for Jade. Pretty much the only reason Agneyastra made it through Jade's defenses was because she'd gotten herself classified as "not a risk". Sidhe, knowingly or not, may have just put herself into the same category. I don't know if she needed the boost. Jade's issues with mental magic... I don't know.
 
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Well consider that as a Retainer Jade will likely go with any votes we have to do mind magic with Sidhe since we have the oath as 'protection' which might/should allow us to vote options that expand Jade's trust of Sidhe.

I think at the moment Jade would eat any vote for mind magic with Sidhe that did one.
 
Well consider that as a Retainer Jade will likely go with any votes we have to do mind magic with Sidhe since we have the oath as 'protection' which might/should allow us to vote options that expand Jade's trust of Sidhe.

I think at the moment Jade would eat any vote for mind magic with Sidhe that did one.
And the oath may replace the trust that would have naturally formed, eventually. Meaning that Jade would never trust Sidhe without an oath to ensure her trustworthiness.
 
And the oath may replace the trust that would have naturally formed, eventually. Meaning that Jade would never trust Sidhe without an oath to ensure her trustworthiness.
I can honestly say that I would never, ever trust Sidhe with mind reading magic without the ability to order her to only use it when it's really important.

I don't even trust the thread to issue that order, honestly.
 
Pressea, please remember thread bleed before you say things like that with such certainty. It's greatly lessened these days, but it's definitely still there.

Personally, I'm fine with Sidhe and her magic. Early on I had some doubts about channeling and the stability of her mind under self-modification, but now that she's not stressed out of her mind with grief and anxiety she's doing completely okay. I've been arguing recently that she knows what she's doing with this oath, technically speaking, and that's the same topic.

So, yes, I would absolutely refuse to give that order. If we trust her to use it safely when it's important, we trust her to use it safely when it's not important. The order would be unnecessary, it wouldn't do what you want anyway, and it'd really hurt both Sidhe and our relationship with her.
 
Got some additional thoughts on the upcoming trip to Magi.

Seems to me that we have our tasks somewhat prioritized. In order of priority:
-Gather data on mages, and get Nanoha mana magic
-Figure out Djinn Equip, esp. get a demo
-(Optional): Get Mitra Djinn abilities.

I've gone over my thoughts on achieving the first two in the past, but since they've gotten buried, I'll go over them again in brief.

Data would best be gathered in Magnostadt, while a mage willing to give up their Gift might be more easily found elsewhere, possibly in the isolated tribe of magic users we detected a while back.

A demonstration of Djinn Equip can be accomplished multiple ways. The least agressive route would be to find a King Vessel willing to demonstrate. A more aggressive route might be to attack a King Vessel, as they'd almost certainly need the boost in power to fight us. The absolutely suicidal method would allow us to see lots of Djinn Equips, because we'd have pissed of numerous King Vessels. That one we do by attacking a Magi. I personal like option one, but am willing to go with option two if need be. Option three is a REALLY bad idea.

The final topic is one I'm iffy on. I don't like wasting a perfectly good Djinn power if we fail. I'd like to at least gather more date on the subject, first. I'd like to wait until we've observed a King Vessel, minimum, and it would be really great if we could examine how the spells are bonded to Astra, though a regular Djinn might work, as well. Maybe examine our memories on what the spells look like, see if we can figure out roughly how they work.

Re: Mind-reading: TBH, unless it extends deeper into reading memories, reading surface thoughts without any ability to influence them in a certain direction is both kinda boring, and often full of information you'd have rather not known. The thing about it is that, in most cases, you probably don't actually want to know what other people are thinking. You might think you do, but, uh...probably going to regret it shortly thereafter. It's kinda like Tattletale's power, in that regard. I suspect Sidhe is smart enough to realize that.

Also, we have a Companion close by. They're usually trained in Mind Reader Ethics 101. So it's not like we don't have someone who can educate Sidhe on the subject. And he's likely to do so anyway, if he finds out she can read minds. Whether or not she takes the advice is a different issue.
 
-(Optional): Get Mitra Djinn abilities.
Made me think about what you have said earlier about Djinn. How they choose an important metal item to inhabit. The importance here probably works the same way as with mana generation. Agneyastra, being closely connected to universally known Agni and their empire, a war veteran and one of the several electors of the new Agni emperor, is quite a significant figure. So she can hold three Djinn powers. While Mitra is basically nobody: she is mere several months old with no reputation to her name. That's why Jade was doubtful about whether Mitra can hold any powers. And if this is true, we can just ask a Djinn if Mitra is important enough yet, I imagine they should be able to sense this kind of stuff.
 
Made me think about what you have said earlier about Djinn. How they choose an important metal item to inhabit. The importance here probably works the same way as with mana generation. Agneyastra, being closely connected to universally known Agni and their empire, a war veteran and one of the several electors of the new Agni emperor, is quite a significant figure. So she can hold three Djinn powers. While Mitra is basically nobody: she is mere several months old with no reputation to her name. That's why Jade was doubtful about whether Mitra can hold any powers. And if this is true, we can just ask a Djinn if Mitra is important enough yet, I imagine they should be able to sense this kind of stuff.
In that case I think the transfer would have a greater chance of success if Nanoha manages to beat the Dijin's tests on her own. Without doing any dungeon bypasses.
 
Made me think about what you have said earlier about Djinn. How they choose an important metal item to inhabit. The importance here probably works the same way as with mana generation. Agneyastra, being closely connected to universally known Agni and their empire, a war veteran and one of the several electors of the new Agni emperor, is quite a significant figure. So she can hold three Djinn powers. While Mitra is basically nobody: she is mere several months old with no reputation to her name. That's why Jade was doubtful about whether Mitra can hold any powers. And if this is true, we can just ask a Djinn if Mitra is important enough yet, I imagine they should be able to sense this kind of stuff.
Technically, only two, unless we '[REDACTED]'.

And this is an...interesting theory. But here's the thing: I don't doubt that Mitra could store a Djinn. That's not really what I'm doubting. What I doubt is that she's an acceptable target for the spell that's the source of a Djinn's power. I think even Astra only gets part of it, even if it's the largest part, because the Djinn still apparently have some magical aptitude afterwards, which they previously lacked.

While the Djinn themselves were mostly somewhat important individuals before hand, I don't think that was a requirement for the spell. The thing is, we're ripping the spell from it's foundations and grafting it to our target's soul, from what I can tell. Astra's soul seems to be compatible for some reason, possibly due to Al-Hazard bullsh*t, or the similarities to Unison, but either way, I suspect compatibility with the partial form we can Spellsteal is somewhat rare.

If we knew more about the spell, we could know for certain, but the Djinn weren't experts in magic (for the most part) before their conversion, and the spell's creator is...difficult to get in touch with, to say the least. That's why I'd like to study the spell more deeply, before trying to graft it to anyone but Astra, or, perhaps, Rein. The Book of Darkness is designed with some amount of modularity, after all.

I'd also like to study Spellsteal in more depth, since it's a spell we pulled completely out of thin freaking air. Between researching the Djinn enchantments and Spellsteal, we may be able to figure out the secrets of how to grant Astra another Djinn power, as well.
In that case I think the transfer would have a greater chance of success if Nanoha manages to beat the Dijin's tests on her own. Without doing any dungeon bypasses.
Maybe, but I'm not so sure. Astra's compatibility could be due to a variety of factors. We don't know enough about Unison, Djinn Equip, Astra's design, Spellsteal or the Djinn enchantment to say for certain, and I'd like to be as certain as possible.
 
Maybe, but I'm not so sure. Astra's compatibility could be due to a variety of factors. We don't know enough about Unison, Djinn Equip, Astra's design, Spellsteal or the Djinn enchantment to say for certain, and I'd like to be as certain as possible.
Well I am fairly sure it would be easier with the Dijn's cooperation. That might be hard to get, but we have done it before. We were even drugged at the time.
 
The importance here probably works the same way as with mana generation. Agneyastra, being closely connected to universally known Agni and their empire, a war veteran and one of the several electors of the new Agni emperor, is quite a significant figure. So she can hold three Djinn powers. While Mitra is basically nobody: she is mere several months old with no reputation to her name. That's why Jade was doubtful about whether Mitra can hold any powers. And if this is true, we can just ask a Djinn if Mitra is important enough yet, I imagine they should be able to sense this kind of stuff.
Why would political power correlate to the ability to hold Djinn powers?

In that case I think the transfer would have a greater chance of success if Nanoha manages to beat the Dijin's tests on her own. Without doing any dungeon bypasses.
It wouldn't be a team effort in that case. Maybe if we have her take the lead?
 
It wouldn't be a team effort in that case. Maybe if we have her take the lead?
I don't see why it should be a team effort. I would suggest letting Nanoha take the lead and only intervening if she gets in over her head. Also as we go into the Dungeon we say "I bring a candidate that I feel worthy".
 
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