Green Sun, Black Shadows (CG/Exalted)

Krain · Oct 17, 2015

Enjou said:
Good luck with that. Just because Lelouch exists outside of Fate doesn't mean Suzaku does, and Fate has plans for him based on the way events should have gone if Lelouch hadn't become an Infernal. Making him irrelevant would be rather difficult and would require focusing efforts on doing so, which first requires that Lelouch learns that Suzaku is alive.

Fate is not worth much in the face of Exalted action.
Or really any magical effort when you get down to it.

How would we know that? The Anuhles might be able to tell us, but like Clovis she could get an artifact to cover it up. There's also the fact that her trying to convince Lelouch of something is what brings the Exaltation to her at just that moment so she can do the impossible, so she could Exalt at the worst possible moment for us.

Then we spend the WP (or the motes for a social perfect defense), get out and prepare to deal with her then.

Even with backup it's not necessarily a sure thing. She might convince one of other other Exalts that her way is better, and then the tables might be turned.

Assuming she'd somehow be able to end up talking to them.

The GM warned us quite clearly - do not underestimate the Exalted.

I'm not underestimating anyone, just pointing out that we have the advantage.
If it comes down to it, I fully intend to be completely ruthless in defeating these two, with absolutely no quarter given.

Enjou · Oct 17, 2015

Krain said:
Fate is not worth much in the face of Exalted action.
Or really any magical effort when you get down to it.

Direct action, sure. Even indirect, to an extent. But remember that Fate's reach is wide - you can't stop its effects entirely, at least not without destroying it. It's quite possible Suzaku has the Destiny background, which means Fate will work to ensure he meets said Destiny, and said Destiny may very well be Exalting, in which case Fate is going to nudge events in that direction.

Plus there's the Sidereals, who might be very much interested in helping ensure Fate goes along something approaching its proper course, trying to ensure Suzaku Exalts or is able to affect events appropriately.

Do not expect it to be easy to keep Suzaku out of the picture.

Krain said:
Then we spend the WP (or the motes for a social perfect defense), get out and prepare to deal with her then.

This presumes that is an option at the time. Not dealing with her immediately in a particular situation may have consequences we won't be able to accept.

Krain said:
Assuming she'd somehow be able to end up talking to them.

You're talking about having them back us up, and in social combat that will usually mean talking.

Krain said:
I'm not underestimating anyone, just pointing out that we have the advantage.

You think we have the advantage. Given this is an AU I wouldn't necessarily be sure that is the case. Euphemia could Exalt, she could have support from other Exalts that we don't know aobut, she could have Artifacts that help her. Any number of things could be working in her favor. As the GM said, expect surprises.

If it comes down to it, I fully intend to be completely ruthless in defeating these two, with absolutely no quarter given.

Again, given Lelouch's Intimacy towards Suzaku that's not going to be as easy as you think. Even with their rivalry Lelouch thinks of Suzaku as his friend, and it would be a major break from his character to try to kill Suzaku.

Giygas · Oct 17, 2015

Enjou said:
It's quite possible Suzaku has the Destiny background, which means Fate will work to ensure he meets said Destiny, and said Destiny may very well be Exalting, in which case Fate is going to nudge events in that direction.

Impossible: Destiny gets destroyed by any Celestial exaltation. He is also an Infernal, which is doubly resistent to fate, thanks to the fact that he is running on primordial stuff.

Krain · Oct 17, 2015

Enjou said:
Direct action, sure. Even indirect, to an extent. But remember that Fate's reach is wide - you can't stop its effects entirely, at least not without destroying it. It's quite possible Suzaku has the Destiny background, which means Fate will work to ensure he meets said Destiny, and said Destiny may very well be Exalting, in which case Fate is going to nudge events in that direction.

Plus there's the Sidereals, who might be very much interested in helping ensure Fate goes along something approaching its proper course, trying to ensure Suzaku Exalts or is able to affect events appropriately.

Do not expect it to be easy to keep Suzaku out of the picture.

...Fate has nothing to do with exaltations (which needed to be the case since otherwise the Primordials could just twist and turn things to manipulate them, which would've meant bad things).
Sidereals also most certainly do not get to dictate anything like that.

This presumes that is an option at the time. Not dealing with her immediately in a particular situation may have consequences we won't be able to accept.

WP and then attack if she tries to interfere in something important, she can't try any social attacks then (and given the lengths Lelouch goes to do what he feels is needed, it'd absolutely be possible for him to do something like this).
There are options here that easily means she can't convince us.

You're talking about having them back us up, and in social combat that will usually mean talking.

If they back us up the other side will be facing multiple social attacks, I'm pretty sure we can just beat them down on pure numbers if that happens.

Again, given Lelouch's Intimacy towards Suzaku that's not going to be as easy as you think. Even with their rivalry Lelouch thinks of Suzaku as his friend, and it would be a major break from his character to try to kill Suzaku.

Fucking goddamn intimacy... alright, so we need to destroy it so we can finally get rid of Suzaku.

Reckless_Sun · Oct 17, 2015

Krain said:
We do need a social defense... anyone have any ideas for what to go with?

TED has a few good ones even without going into WITNESS TO DARKNESS.

Enjou · Oct 17, 2015

Giygas said:
Impossible: Destiny gets destroyed by any Celestial exaltation. He is also an Infernal, which is doubly resistent to fate, thanks to the fact that he is running on primordial stuff.

Suzaku is not an Infernal, or a Celestial Exaltat of any kind. He can still have the Destiny background.

Krain said:
...Fate has nothing to do with exaltations (which needed to be the case since otherwise the Primordials could just twist and turn things to manipulate them, which would've meant bad things).
Sidereals also most certainly do not get to dictate anything like that.

Page 48 of the Sidereals manual explains that someone can have a Destiny to Exalt: "A mortal can be Destined to Exalt, but once Exaltation occurs, her Destiny (with a capital "D") is fulfilled."

There are examples of this for Sidereals. In the Scroll of Exalts Crimson Banner Executioner is noted to have been fated to receive his Exaltation, and Black Ice Shadow was forecasted to receive his as well.

Exaltations may not be completely bound to Fate, but the Celestial Exaltations that aren't corrupted still exist inside it and Fate has a conception of what they are, so it can manipulate the destinies of suitable individuals to create conditions such that Exaltations are significantly likely to choose them.

Giygas · Oct 17, 2015

Enjou said:
Suzaku is not an Infernal, or a Celestial Exaltat of any kind. He can still have the Destiny background.

My mind somehow swapped suzaku with lelouch.

Krain · Oct 17, 2015

Enjou said:
Page 48 of the Sidereals manual explains that someone can have a Destiny to Exalt: "A mortal can be Destined to Exalt, but once Exaltation occurs, her Destiny (with a capital "D") is fulfilled."

There are examples of this for Sidereals. In the Scroll of Exalts Crimson Banner Executioner is noted to have been fated to receive his Exaltation, and Black Ice Shadow was forecasted to receive his as well.

Exaltations may not be completely bound to Fate, but the Celestial Exaltations that aren't corrupted still exist inside it and Fate has a conception of what they are, so it can manipulate the destinies of suitable individuals to create conditions such that Exaltations are significantly likely to choose them.

Does that still remain canon?
Because I'm pretty sure I have seen plenty of people agree that it's really stupid.

And it's not like the sidereal book is all that well regarded.

Enjou · Oct 17, 2015

Krain said:
Does that still remain canon?
Because I'm pretty sure I have seen plenty of people agree that it's really stupid.

And it's not like the sidereal book is all that well regarded.

I dunno. Lots of people argue that some parts of Exalted lore are dumb and should be ignored - just look at the first two chapters of Infernals. @Alexander89 can say whether this is canon for this quest or not.

Still, if you know what an Exaltation is, what conditions it takes to Exalt someone, and have the power to manipulate events worldwide then it's not beyond belief that you could manipulate events such that a suitable person would more likely than not attract an Exaltation.

Peanuckle · Oct 17, 2015

Caught up on this, it looks pretty fun. Loved CG and I love Infernals.

As for the current social defense discussion, the one for Oramus is Soothing Balm of Insanity, which perfectly defends against a social attack but inflicts a Derangement of our choice for a scene. So Lelouch would maintain his course of action, but temporarily gain some sort of madness.

The one for The Ebon Dragon is Mocking Murmurs Retort, where we parrot back the influence in a spiteful fashion to negate it. Safer than Oramus, but it costs a bit more (6 motes compared to 1 mote), though the cost decreases with repeated use. It can also defend groups of people from the influence once we hit E5, but that might be a while away.

Oramus' defense unlocks a nice charm (Fractured Mind Empowerment), which grants a 15-mote overdrive pool. Very useful, but somewhat situational with how we fill it. Mocking Murmurs Retort requires Brooding Resentment Defense, which is less of a defense and more of a way to remove ongoing effects.

We can buy SBI at any time, but need BRD to buy MMR (I love Acronyms). So Oramus' defense has some penalties, but unlocks a very nice charm and is immediately available since we have its prerequisite. The Ebon Dragon's doesn't have a penalty, but has a higher cost and we have to buy the prerequisite. It also doesn't unlock any new charms.

I'd personally go for Soothing Balm of Insanity. Since we can choose the derangement, it'll be easy to mitigate the damage. Getting access to FME would be nice as well and the low mote-cost is important.

ShadowAngelBeta · Oct 17, 2015

Enjou said:
Page 48 of the Sidereals manual explains that someone can have a Destiny to Exalt: "A mortal can be Destined to Exalt, but once Exaltation occurs, her Destiny (with a capital "D") is fulfilled."

There are examples of this for Sidereals. In the Scroll of Exalts Crimson Banner Executioner is noted to have been fated to receive his Exaltation, and Black Ice Shadow was forecasted to receive his as well.

Exaltations may not be completely bound to Fate, but the Celestial Exaltations that aren't corrupted still exist inside it and Fate has a conception of what they are, so it can manipulate the destinies of suitable individuals to create conditions such that Exaltations are significantly likely to choose them.

As far as I was aware, that only applied to Sidereal Exaltations since they exist as part of Fate/Destiny/The Loom/Whatever. All the others, or at least Celestial ones, specifically exist outside of it?

Enjou said:
Still, if you know what an Exaltation is, what conditions it takes to Exalt someone, and have the power to manipulate events worldwide then it's not beyond belief that you could manipulate events such that a suitable person would more likely than not attract an Exaltation.

Well yeah, but that's just them making it likely someone will Exalt, not really a part of Fate though.

Enjou · Oct 17, 2015

ShadowAngelBeta said:
As far as I was aware, that only applied to Sidereal Exaltations since they exist as part of Fate/Destiny/The Loom/Whatever. All the others, or at least Celestial ones, specifically exist outside of it?

The page in question doesn't say. It just says that Celestial Exalted can't have the background, and that once you Exalt you lose it.

Well yeah, but that's just them making it likely someone will Exalt, not really a part of Fate though.

Sure, but if Fate really wants you to Exalt and you're a strong enough candidate, it can keep trying until it works.

cyberswordsmen · Oct 17, 2015

The destined to exalt thing is Sidereals only as their exaltation are tied to fate.

touhou ranfuku · Oct 17, 2015

chocolote12 said:
Or make us look like an elf, for the lolz.

And get mistaken for a Raksha aka Fair Folk, which would bring us more troubles.

Prent said:
I'd suggest prompting him with something like: "Hey Tamaki, don't you ever wish you were more quick on the uptake?" except that his response would undoubtedly be something like "Hey! I'll have you know I'm plenty smart, bastard!"

I think we can challenge him to a Knightmare Frame piloting contest, then when he loses and wishes he wasn't so bad we pump his Drive ability.
Though I wonder what favor would we call him in, maybe punching Ougi?

NSMS said:
There's always the classic Exalted solution, AKA punch her in the face.

Well, better prepare for her Surprise Negator + Counter Attack since we have no idea if she's mortal or Exalted.

Prent · Oct 17, 2015

touhou ranfuku said:
I think we can challenge him to a Knightmare Frame piloting contest, then when he loses and wishes he wasn't so bad we pump his Drive ability.
Though I wonder what favor would we call him in, maybe punching Ougi?

Well, yes, that would probably work as a way to increase his Drive, but we were talking about trying to increase his Wit.

Something that is significantly more difficult given that he is, in his own mind, rather witty already

touhou ranfuku · Oct 17, 2015

Prent said:
Well, yes, that would probably work as a way to increase his Drive, but we were talking about trying to increase his Wit.

Something that is significantly more difficult given that he is, in his own mind, rather witty already

Why should we increase his Wit first? I thought he was more like a named grunt in canon?

Enjou · Oct 17, 2015

touhou ranfuku said:
Why should we increase his Wit first? I thought he was more like a named grunt in canon?

He was a named grunt who was for some reason was given more responsibilities than he should have been. Likely it was just him having seniority due to having been in Ohgi's group from before the Black Knights were formed. How he didn't die sometime in the series is beyond me.

touhou ranfuku · Oct 17, 2015

Enjou said:
He was a named grunt who was for some reason was given more responsibilities than he should have been. Likely it was just him having seniority due to having been in Ohgi's group from before the Black Knights were formed. How he didn't die sometime in the series is beyond me.

Then level up his Physical/Offense seems good to me, he would contribute more to the war on the battlefield instead of getting ejected like least than 5 minutes every time he's deployed. I think it's worse for him IC to stay at the infirmary most of the time while his comrades getting killed and his country getting trampled on.
So instead of named grunt in canon he becomes Heroic Grunt here, hell pitting him against Round Knights with 1 tier lower Knightmare Frame tech is fun.

Reckless_Sun · Oct 17, 2015

Enjou said:
The page in question doesn't say. It just says that Celestial Exalted can't have the background, and that once you Exalt you lose it.

Sure, but if Fate really wants you to Exalt and you're a strong enough candidate, it can keep trying until it works.

Nah, that's more like a sidereal is trying to kill you by throwing you into more and more impossible situation until one day you got lucky with the cosmic dice.

Alexander89 · Oct 18, 2015

Enjou said:
Ok, came up with a plan. I took inspiration from canon, took into account that Lelouch may be a bit more willing to trust once he knows someone well enough given Milly has already allied with him, and worked to provide maximum lulz.

[X] You will contact her through phone as Zero, but also contact her in person as Lelouch to get a better read on her character.
-[X] Plan Skipping Gym

Strategy: You think it best to approach this from two different angles. She's a terrorist, and you don't know enough about her to expose any of your secrets - perhaps later, if she turns out to be trustworthy, but not before. Still, best to keep her close where you're able to observe. Rivalz knows who all the pretty girls in school are, get her name from him. Once you have her identity, send an Anuhle to tell Milly that the girl is one of the terrorists you helped and you'd like her to come up with some pretense to invite her to join the Student Council (if you don't find one out yourself upon establishing her identity), and have another two Anuhles following the girl both to gather information and to ensure she doesn't harm any of the other students. Once you've done that, make contact as Lelouch and ask her to come with you to see the Student Council. Once she's there, work with Milly to make an opportunity to get Kallen somewhere she can receive a call from Zero to arrange a meeting with her group. If at all possible, arrange it so the call is a recording you've made that Milly will play over the phone with you being in the same room so the terrorist girl doesn't suspect you're Zero just yet.

Stunt: Kallen Stadtfeld looks over to see you standing there, clearly having witnessed her deft killing of the bee and breaking the false character she plays at school. Taking the sandwich from her mouth, she asks "I-is there something you want from me?" "Miss Stadtfeld, I'm Lelouch Lamperouge, the Student Council Vice-President. Could you please come with me? The President would like to speak with you." You put on your best smile, and she actually blushes for a moment. "Oh, and don't worry, I'll keep your secret." She tenses up, clearly worried. Still smiling, you put her at ease. "I'd do anything to get out of gym class, too." The dumbfounded look on her face is priceless.

@Alexander89 - Let me know if there are any issues with this.

There is no issue. It works well.

Enjou said:
I like it. Oramus recommending a demon like that for Kaguya, one who knows seductive dances, would totally fit. Something tells me that Oramus knows that the Reclamation is basically impossible because the Green Sun Princes will inevitably say 'fuck that' and do their own thing, so he's just using the whole thing to set up Lelouch as his own personal entertainment.

Oramus wants first and foremost to be free of the prison of his own wings (and who could blame him?). Beyond that...well, the Impossible Dragon keeps his secrets for himself. But when he acts, it's never in vain.

landcollector said:
Hmm. Deliberate obliviousness, or a failed awareness check? Either way, hilarity!

Enjou said:
I find it hilarious that in spite of 1) being told he has a passive ability to make people fascinated, 2) being told by Milly that he's been made more handsome, and 3) having seen himself in the mirror this morning, he still hasn't put two and two together regarding people's reactions. He's gone from merely "quite good looking" to "likely the most attractive and desirous individual most people have ever met". I have to say, that among Lelouch's character flaws, physical vanity never seemed to be one of them. (maybe this has to do with being raised alongside the likes of the various royals who were similarly attractive)

Once he does figure it out though, he's going to have an 'oh fuck' moment that will be epic.

Personally, my headcanon is that he was raised to believe physical appearance matters not in affairs of love. Considering the environment of Britannia's nobility, where everyone is scheming against each other and lies with a smile on their face, being fascinated by physical beauty may becomes a weakness if the target has a rotten personality.

Lelouch is, quite ironically, someone who look beyond physical appearance and value a person's self and personality. His flaw is that he fails to understand is that most people doesn't follow this way of thinking. He thinks that the mask of a common, aloof boy he wears at school makes him non interesting, and the interest of the female populace is just them indulging their hormones a little.

Enjou said:
I dunno. Lots of people argue that some parts of Exalted lore are dumb and should be ignored - just look at the first two chapters of Infernals. @Alexander89 can say whether this is canon for this quest or not.

Sidereals are the only one Fated to Exalt. That's because the Exaltation lies within them since birth and manifest when appropriate.

Terrestrial Exaltations follow blood lineage and other factors. They may be nudged in one direction, but ultimately it's up to the target to ignite the divine spark.

Celestial Exaltations (Solar, Lunar) cannot be controlled. They ride the threads of Fate, searching for ideal targets. Events could be nudged in a person's favor, but ultimately you can only just make so that the target is more likely to Exalt if there is a spare Exaltation passing nearby.

On the subject of Suzaku and Euphemia...it's true that important characters in Code Geass have greater destinies than most others, because their actions influenced a lot.

However, it's also true that Lelouch's Fate was destroyed by the Infernal Exaltation. And believe me, that was felt. Oh if it was felt. He was a single thread connecting many others in a great tale, and now it's gone. And Lelouch is free in a manner he could have never been otherwise.

NSMS · Oct 18, 2015

Alexander89 said:
However, it's also true that Lelouch's Fate was destroyed by the Infernal Exaltation. And believe me, that was felt. Oh if it was felt. He was a single thread connecting many others in a great tale, and now it's gone. And Lelouch is free in a manner he could have never been otherwise.

...this has got me was wondering: are fate errors a thing here? And if so, how big of a one did our Exaltation set off?

Kiriel · Oct 18, 2015

NSMS said:
...this has got me was wondering: are fate errors a thing here? And if so, how big of a one did our Exaltation set off?

I'm pretty sure Fate Errors are a thing. Small errors are handled by Pattern Spiders, them overworked critters that weave the Loom of Fate. A big enough error would result Sidereals being deployed to troubleshoot said error. A really big Fate Error would probably cause a Getimian Exaltation, but that's out of the quest's purview.

Enjou · Oct 18, 2015

Alexander89 said:
However, it's also true that Lelouch's Fate was destroyed by the Infernal Exaltation. And believe me, that was felt. Oh if it was felt. He was a single thread connecting many others in a great tale, and now it's gone. And Lelouch is free in a manner he could have never been otherwise.

The Sidereals must be shitting their pants. The amount of paperwork alone in the effort to fix the Loom of Fate must be staggering. And the poor Pattern Spiders must be feeling overworked as they rush to try to make the tapestry of Fate make some kind of fucking sense while the Bureau of Destiny tries to sort things out... all this while the Maidens are all playing the Games of Divinity, and of course they likely just went in after a break so they'll be in there for a few years at least and there's no dragging them out.

veekie · Oct 18, 2015

Alexander89 said:
Celestial Exaltations (Solar, Lunar) cannot be controlled. They ride the threads of Fate, searching for ideal targets. Events could be nudged in a person's favor, but ultimately you can only just make so that the target is more likely to Exalt if there is a spare Exaltation passing nearby.

Often by throwing them towards certain death

Enjou · Oct 18, 2015

veekie said:
Often by throwing them towards certain death

Sure, but there's plenty of ways to Exalt that don't involve physical combat. You could Exalt crafting a masterpiece, or brokering a peace deal between bitter rivals, or any number of things, so long as it would otherwise be impossible (or close enough) to achieve the desired results without the Exaltation giving the extra oomph.

Green Sun, Black Shadows (CG/Exalted)

Cutest Sawk i could find. Lucario is a nice extra.

Cutest Sawk i could find. Lucario is a nice extra.

Pet the pretty kitty? Y/N

Probably evil, unfortunately.