Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

In this crossover setting there is every chance that the White God is a Sidereal that managed to recover or reconstruct part of the loom of fate as well as getting getting at least some of the Celestial Burcarcy to sign on with him. I don't think any of the White God's feats in DF would be beyond a essence 5 sidereal.

Now that would imply a large amount of misdirection, but the fact that they asked us not to use the crown of eyes on them already implied that.
 
Last edited:
In this crossover setting there is every chance that the White God is a Sidereal that managed to recover or reconstruct part of the loom of fate as well as getting getting at least some of the Celestial Burcarcy to sign on with him. I don't think any of the White God's feats in DF would be beyond a essence 5 sidereal.

Now that would imply a large amount of misdirection, but the fact that they asked us not to use the crown of eyes on them already implied that.
A very old Siddie might be able to do all the subtle effects we have seen on-screen in DF, perhaps by some cheesy ways I don't know create the Swords, but there's no way he could con beings as powerful as angels into his service.
 
Uh. No, absolutely not. I don't even know where to begin with this. What gave you this idea?
The general modus operandi of mysterious ways and indirect interference just screams Sidereal. It is generally their most effective method to get anything done.

As for the Angels being too powerful for that may I remind you that our exaltation at essanse 1 in power saving mode detects as a constant dark hallow for everyone with even a lick of sense.

The only evidence of Angel mighty power in the books is mystic senses. Not feats.

Really in general a Sidereal would be more impressive than the Angels in DF. The ability to destroy a galaxy is insignificant compared to the power to manipulate fate.
 
Last edited:
The general modus operandi of mysterious ways and indirect interference just screams Sidereal. It is generally their most effective method to get anything done.
Fate fuckery and indirect interference is not Sidereal-only trick. A minor practitioner with a couple dots in Fortune could theoretically start doing the "mysterious ways" thing.

I had deleted that previous message because I actually decided that someone else could sort this out, but wcyd, too late.
 
Storm heaven and find a solar and a sideral saying 'you got us guv, good game'. I don't think that's something that's going to be voted though.

I'm treating 'god' as a pointless mystery in this game, because of the character being who she is. Which probably means she can't be the 'demon empress to be' as in the full package 6th age of darkness throne of heaven deal (or at least can't be in a appropriately 'exalted' way, unless you consider a dumb fate-averting scam exalted).

I recommend just ignoring it I guess. That's just the breaks when you choose to make a game based on a christian author that actualizes that in their setting. Roll over the Yama kings and make the hells somewhat tolerable, sure.
 
Last edited:
Fate fuckery and indirect interference is not Sidereal-only trick. A minor practitioner with a couple dots in Fortune could theoretically start doing the "mysterious ways" thing.

I had deleted that previous message because I actually decided that someone else could sort this out, but wcyd, too late.
Yes, but it is indicative of the abilities available. Even if Angels really avoid messing with free will their interference is never of the sort we would except of beings whose power is galaxy destroying biggatons. They don't create a mountain range somewhere to stop an invasion or a gold mine to fund a group. No it's always fate effects.

This isn't a indictment of the White God. If they are a Sidereal they are still doing very good work using the best tools they have available. And it is only to their advantage to let the idea that they have galaxy destroying biggatons around that they don't use.
 
Last edited:
Yes, but it is indicative of the abilities available. Even if Angels really avoid messing with free will their interference is never of the sort we would except of beings whose power is galaxy destroying biggatons. They don't create a mountain range somewhere to stop an invasion or a gold mine to fund a group. No it's always fate effects.
The Fallen are very real, very powerful though.

And they don't deny the existance of God and his angels as great beings, rather than decievers using only mysterious ways and fate-trickery.
 
As an aside to this debate that is more along the lines of "haha, look at his funny thing I found" rather than serious argumentation, if FF said "E10 Sidereal with old-style Sidereal Martial Arts" before they got panned by everyone and written out of existence, then I would've said "Unlikely, but theoretically possible."
 
The Fallen are very real, very powerful though.

And they don't deny the existance of God and his angels as great beings, rather than decievers using only mysterious ways and fate-trickery.
This isn't a indictment of the White God. If they are a Sidereal they are still doing very good work using the best tools they have available. And it is only to their advantage to let the idea that they have galaxy destroying biggatons around that they don't use.

The ability to destroy a galaxy is insignificant compared to the power to manipulate fate. In basically all practical terms. Assuming that destroying galaxies isn't your goal.

And of course the Fallen aren't denying the power of God. If he is a Sidereal it is just as powerful as ever, but many people mistakenly find biggatons more impressive. And the Fallen prefer if everyone thinks that they are super powerful as well.
 
Last edited:
Even if we take that WoG as truth for canon-Dresden Files, it can't be true for an Exalted Crossover.

The very existance of our Exaltation means that at some point in the past an impossible superweapon designed to defeat the unimaginably powerful but not trule omnipotent Titans of old.

We have enough hints, like the Neverborn name and our memory of Raksha, that a situation at least vaguely similar to Creation in the Exalted-setting once existed.
So even if God is the big cheese now, there must have been a time when all was Chaos until the Priomordials invented stuff like Causality and Existance.
The exaltations were made by Autochthon and given specific shape by higher order gods. Without the leverage provided by that the primordials were effectively unbeatable and unchallengeable outside of their peers.

See Theion wearing a crown of shattered universes just to flex.

Sure you could say it's just a matter of having enough essence and refined control of shaping it, but note that no one gains that save through them or their creations in the entire cosmos. Including the atemporal nonsense of the wyld. Being able to do what they, the exalted, and to an extend the gods did with essence could be a function of the metaphysical component found in primordial's "biology" that is grafted to exalts.

In this paradigm what Autobot did would be less making super swords and more peeling shadows off the wall and attaching them to their own lanterns. Or at least giving them to the tiny bit of mortal that isn't a shadow on a wall.

Then the metaphor breaks down when the exalts start growing into "3D" space as horrifying monsters and kill/mutilate all of autobot's siblings.

Especially in the case of infernals, for whom growing up to be something outside the mortal babysitting room seems to be a design goal.

It'd also provide a neat explanation for why they can't be lessened but exalts and primordials can be other than "because no".

They're self contained emanations of their own reality; lensed through things that they choose to take on but separate from the everything else. Trying to screw with them is like trying to turn off a lantern by running shadows over it cast by a campfire.

Which adds some pretty amazing fluff to just how goddamn freaky a mad scientist Autobot was.

All of this is very speculative, but I think it fits together neatly without contradicting anything from either side. Getting from there to here is a mystery. Could be that a new titan did rise up after the others weren't breathing down reality's neck. Could be that something Gaia survived and this is her take two.

Maybe the things in the projection booth are something like powerful shaped Rakasha bound to fragments of creation's history, at odds with their peers Outside because they've been changed so much they can't exist in the pure wyld anymore.* Any number of things would fit.

The system did shit a brick and die before getting reformatted, so there's plenty of space for all the always-have entities of the Dresden Files to actually have an asterisk point towards "in this time zone" in their background.

* Which would also make the DF!fey a pretty funny joke on their part, so I kind of favor this one.
 
Vote closed, let's see how this goes.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jan 8, 2023 at 1:10 PM, finished with 134 posts and 19 votes.

  • [X] No. you hardly know these people, exchange emails and leave
    [X] Plan Measure Twice
    -[X] Attempt to set up a lore exchange related to the pathfinders
    —[X] Explain in general what they are, what their operation in Cleveland was trying to, and that they're handled for the moment without getting into details about who or how it was handled
    -[X] Offer to put together a packet containing what information remains of their research and equipment. In exchange request equivalent value in alchemical lore. (Include things like a brief write up of their activities, sketches of their facilities as relevant to their research, and printed photos of any equipment we have of their's from multiple angles with identifying labels)
    -[X] If they seem amicable, further offer to start a little joint research project on it if they have someone local for you to speak with.
    -[X] Stunt: Taking a deep breath, Molly looks over the agents again and comes to a decision. "Trust is a fragile thing, but you two have been as reasonable as can be expected of people in your position. Perhaps more than that, I'll admit to wanting to find a trustworthy mortal organization in all of this" She says, gesturing in a vague way at the supernatural world as a whole.
    -[X] "So how about we take another little baby step, and see where it goes" growing more serious Molly looks one agent in the eye, then the other, and asks "Have either of you heard of the Pathfinders before?"
    [X] Trade them knowledge of fomori underground base biology as a "teaser" of sorts
    -[X] Use Occult excellency to make the information better
    -[X] "Prove my bonafides as a scholar, you say? Sure. You have a pen and a piece of paper?" you smile, before starting to sketch what looks like a mix between an autopsy report, a scientific paper, and an article taken from a medieval bestiary. You draw the outline of a great mutant crustacean that you saw under the surface of lake Erie, with a cutout detailing its internal structure, and make detailed notes on how it functions, and what dangers it represents.
 
When it comes to our personal hell considering just how precious the build points are could we just drop a loyalty point and just take advantage of the fact that they are all CoD. Maybe also feed them all MMP grub. Don't think that there is any practical different between people that recognize us as their leader and who we get at least a -5 DC on social checks with.

We can just make MMP grub the standard meal of our Kingdom as part of the background.
 
When it comes to our personal hell considering just how precious the build points are could we just drop a loyalty point and just take advantage of the fact that they are all CoD. Maybe also feed them all MMP grub. Don't think that there is any practical different between people that recognize us as their leader and who we get at least a -5 DC on social checks with.

We can just make MMP grub the standard meal of our Kingdom as part of the background.

If we want a maximally effective Hell, which E should, we're not going to be able to feed ten billion entities with MMP.

We should just use the fact that we are very superhuman socially and should have a tech-hell to give amazingly effective propaganda speechs on our Hellish cable and internet and win loyalty that way.

Having a couple of planet's worth of devils kitted with Magi-Tech under our command would be great
 
Fingers crossed for them coming up clean. It'd be nice if at least some of the mortal authorities weren't hopelessly useless.

A mob boss being more clued in and effective than any other pure mundane given page space in the books is just embarrassing.*

I'm not enthused about the idea of accidentally giving the idiots among the feds the tools to try summoning Uncle Sam a demon army or something equally suicidal**, but there's got to be a few brain cells to rub together somewhere around here if we look hard enough.




*Before anyone says anything, yeah Murphy kicks ass. However, she never managed to kick hard enough to get the supernatural to formally acknowledge her as a peer.

** Unless it's our demon army, in which case I'm all for giving them great rates and milking the opportunity for all its worth. :V

Raytheion: Damn good products on a damned good budget.
 
Sidereals soon learn that destiny moves in comfortable courses, and that for every unique and world-changing destiny, there are countless soldiers or fishermen whose destiny is simply to be a soldier or fisherman. With just a bit of practice, a Sidereal can learn to wear one of these "template" destinies like a cloak. When a Sidereal wears a false destiny, nobody can recognize her for who she truly is. Instead they instinctively see a sailor, a cop, priest, or whatever else the Sidereal is masquerading as, plus any embellishments she's added such as a name or more specific job ("homicide detective" rather than a generic "cop"). If she "breaks character," then her assumed destiny cracks and others can potentially see through it (such as if a stern drill sergeant expresses concern for someone's feelings). At that point, anyone who notices the lapse can roll Perception + Subterfuge against difficulty 9 to realize who the Sidereal is (or at least that they're not who they seem to be). In order to don a false destiny, the Sidereal must spend 1 Willpower point and spend a moment aligning herself with the design of destiny. It's worth noting that this "disguise" doesn't have to be in any way intuitively convincing: an enormous musclebound Sidereal man can don the destiny of a "mother" and that's the vibe people will read from his presence, papering over any inconsistencies in their minds. A Sidereal can't don a false destiny while being observed by anyone other than fellow Sidereals, and other Sidereals can always see through another of their kind's false destinies. To shuck a false destiny requires only a moment spent in total concentration. A Sidereal's Arcane Background does not apply to a false destiny. People have no difficulty remembering it, and Sidereals can recycle the same particular false destiny again and again if they wish to. There are limits to what sort of role a Sidereal can assume through Dynamic LARPing, based on their Caste.

Does it ever strike you that the White God is amazingly generic? It's name is literally just "God". Back in the day there were lots of gods running around.
 
Sidereals soon learn that destiny moves in comfortable courses, and that for every unique and world-changing destiny, there are countless soldiers or fishermen whose destiny is simply to be a soldier or fisherman. With just a bit of practice, a Sidereal can learn to wear one of these "template" destinies like a cloak. When a Sidereal wears a false destiny, nobody can recognize her for who she truly is. Instead they instinctively see a sailor, a cop, priest, or whatever else the Sidereal is masquerading as, plus any embellishments she's added such as a name or more specific job ("homicide detective" rather than a generic "cop"). If she "breaks character," then her assumed destiny cracks and others can potentially see through it (such as if a stern drill sergeant expresses concern for someone's feelings). At that point, anyone who notices the lapse can roll Perception + Subterfuge against difficulty 9 to realize who the Sidereal is (or at least that they're not who they seem to be). In order to don a false destiny, the Sidereal must spend 1 Willpower point and spend a moment aligning herself with the design of destiny. It's worth noting that this "disguise" doesn't have to be in any way intuitively convincing: an enormous musclebound Sidereal man can don the destiny of a "mother" and that's the vibe people will read from his presence, papering over any inconsistencies in their minds. A Sidereal can't don a false destiny while being observed by anyone other than fellow Sidereals, and other Sidereals can always see through another of their kind's false destinies. To shuck a false destiny requires only a moment spent in total concentration. A Sidereal's Arcane Background does not apply to a false destiny. People have no difficulty remembering it, and Sidereals can recycle the same particular false destiny again and again if they wish to. There are limits to what sort of role a Sidereal can assume through Dynamic LARPing, based on their Caste.

Does it ever strike you that the White God is amazingly generic? It's name is literally just "God". Back in the day there were lots of gods running around.

And supernatural beings are, I think, a valid category of entity for the Chosen of Secrets.
 
In this crossover setting there is every chance that the White God is a Sidereal that managed to recover or reconstruct part of the loom of fate as well as getting getting at least some of the Celestial Burcarcy to sign on with him. I don't think any of the White God's feats in DF would be beyond a essence 5 sidereal.

Now that would imply a large amount of misdirection, but the fact that they asked us not to use the crown of eyes on them already implied that.
Sidereals soon learn that destiny moves in comfortable courses, and that for every unique and world-changing destiny, there are countless soldiers or fishermen whose destiny is simply to be a soldier or fisherman. With just a bit of practice, a Sidereal can learn to wear one of these "template" destinies like a cloak. When a Sidereal wears a false destiny, nobody can recognize her for who she truly is. Instead they instinctively see a sailor, a cop, priest, or whatever else the Sidereal is masquerading as, plus any embellishments she's added such as a name or more specific job ("homicide detective" rather than a generic "cop"). If she "breaks character," then her assumed destiny cracks and others can potentially see through it (such as if a stern drill sergeant expresses concern for someone's feelings). At that point, anyone who notices the lapse can roll Perception + Subterfuge against difficulty 9 to realize who the Sidereal is (or at least that they're not who they seem to be). In order to don a false destiny, the Sidereal must spend 1 Willpower point and spend a moment aligning herself with the design of destiny. It's worth noting that this "disguise" doesn't have to be in any way intuitively convincing: an enormous musclebound Sidereal man can don the destiny of a "mother" and that's the vibe people will read from his presence, papering over any inconsistencies in their minds. A Sidereal can't don a false destiny while being observed by anyone other than fellow Sidereals, and other Sidereals can always see through another of their kind's false destinies. To shuck a false destiny requires only a moment spent in total concentration. A Sidereal's Arcane Background does not apply to a false destiny. People have no difficulty remembering it, and Sidereals can recycle the same particular false destiny again and again if they wish to. There are limits to what sort of role a Sidereal can assume through Dynamic LARPing, based on their Caste.

Does it ever strike you that the White God is amazingly generic? It's name is literally just "God". Back in the day there were lots of gods running around.
I really want to disagree with you because the idea of a universe administered by a Sidereal is depressing, but I can't actually refute you.

Though I would say that if the white god is a siddie then they're probably either essence 10 or something like a kitbashed devil-tiger made possible by being the only person left in fate's office building.

An essence 5 sidereal could do a lot of what we can attempt to trace back to the white god, but not all of it at once everywhere. Divine subordinates would help, but just riding herd on them would be difficult at that level.
 
That would at least explain why we had to promise not to use the Crown on God.
Looking behind the curtain would not have revealed anything dangerous to us personally, it would just have been a bit dissapointing.

Though I still think it's unlikely.
 
*Before anyone says anything, yeah Murphy kicks ass. However, she never managed to kick hard enough to get the supernatural to formally acknowledge her as a peer.
That's... actually an idea. What stops us from helping Murphy getting Special Investigations signed on as an Unseelie Accords member? Yes, obviously we'd need to boost them up, and do a lot to verify their internal security, but it could be doable.
The ability to destroy a galaxy is insignificant compared to the power to manipulate fate.
I wanted to rant a bit about it:
1) I am fairly sure that not all matter is created equal. NeverNever, for all that it is multiversal and infinite, extends only as far as the Moon in real space. For all we know, the solar system is the only thing to actually physically exist, surrounded by a crystal sphere, and the "galaxies" are lightbulbs arranged into a funny shape. Even if not, unless we get evidence os ensouled aliens out there, I doubt that a galaxy of bare matter far away from the center of the universe (ie Earth) has the same metaphysical weight as, say, Chicago. And it's metaphysical weight that matters in such things. I mean, for this crossover, we have Prince of Ruin Attitude. With no additional essence we could, for example, make the whole interstate road network fully functional in the even of a nuclear Armageddon. If we find a Halo in some parallel reality? Or, hell a broken Xeelee Ring? Yeah, that's something we could repair with an effort of will. Scale doesn't matter as much as conceptual weight or something similar does. Uriel destroying galaxies might be as impactful as erasing a line in a registry of Heaven.

Also, I just realized: as long as Molly is alive, Outer Gates cannot be broken. Or, rather, it doesn't matter if they are broken. Prince of Ruin Attitude ensures that they keep functioning even if they are.
2) We only know of this from one line by Uriel. Whether Uriel is bound to speak truth, only truth and nothing but truth, and can't have been joking is... a question in my mind.
I really want to disagree with you because the idea of a universe administered by a Sidereal is depressing, but I can't actually refute you.

Though I would say that if the white god is a siddie then they're probably either essence 10 or something like a kitbashed devil-tiger made possible by being the only person left in fate's office building.

An essence 5 sidereal could do a lot of what we can attempt to trace back to the white god, but not all of it at once everywhere. Divine subordinates would help, but just riding herd on them would be difficult at that level.
Though the picture of White God going "Finally, a solaroid to throw at things! I am not alone anymore! Here, have this mentor and go sword things, kid! Come back when you are essence 5, I'll teach you how to punch people into ducks" is funny.
 
Also, I just realized: as long as Molly is alive, Outer Gates cannot be broken. Or, rather, it doesn't matter if they are broken. Prince of Ruin Attitude ensures that they keep functioning even if they are.
We'd have to stand there, right in the endless battlefield attacked by endless masses of Outsiders and protected only by Winter's forces, and make a Appearance+Tech Roll every single scene to keep it working.

That might save the world long enough for someone like Rashid and Mab to fix the damage to the gates, or it might not, but it is certainly not a long-term solution.
 
We'd have to stand there, right in the endless battlefield attacked by endless masses of Outsiders and protected only by Winter's forces, and make a Appearance+Tech Roll every single scene to keep it working.

That might save the world long enough for someone like Rashid and Mab to fix the damage to the gates, or it might not, but it is certainly not a long-term solution.
Yeah, you are right. Still, that's useful tidbit to know. Adds value to Molly in terms of Mab's calculus concerning keeping her alive.
 
We'd have to stand there, right in the endless battlefield attacked by endless masses of Outsiders and protected only by Winter's forces, and make a Appearance+Tech Roll every single scene to keep it working.

That might save the world long enough for someone like Rashid and Mab to fix the damage to the gates, or it might not, but it is certainly not a long-term solution.
We have to make the roll every scene, but nothing seems to indicate that it requires any concentration on our part. We would likely also be working on fixing the gate at charm accelerated speed.
 
We have to make the roll every scene, but nothing seems to indicate that it requires any concentration on our part. We would likely also be working on fixing the gate at charm accelerated speed.
Yes, either that or fighting for our life.

I'm just saying the situation would be terrible in the first place and most likely sees us torn apart by uncounted monsters, depending on how far into our combat-charms we are either quickly or after being mote-tapped.

But a tiny chance to save reality would be better than none I guess.
 
About that - if Murder is Meat works on outsiders, that "after" is "never."

If Molly kills stuff quickly enough, she also could easily keep Counter-Conceptual Interposition perfect defense permanently on, too.
Also in that sort of situation violence is worship should give passive gains. After all we didn't invite the outsiders and the winter court doesn't work for us.

Infernals; the worse the situation is the stronger they are.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top