Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

little bit late but: holy fuck this is hilarious. And stupid. Particularly from someone who is a) a Catholic, b) daughter of a Knight of the Cross, c) friends with a Wizard of the White Council.
A buddy of mine way back in my college days was from France. Before he immigrated, he lived in a flat in a building that had been built before the US declared independence from England. That amazed 18 year old me at the time.

You can know that institutions have existed for centuries, but when you grow up in such a relatively young country it's not that easy to really internalize that knowledge, especially when you're young yourself and anything older than your parents seems ancient.
 
Is that how it works? Not sure the mechanics for how our hell works as an afterlife.
I'm not sure how it works in WoD, but in the Dresden Files we sort of have an answer for this.

The white god is the top of the heap, and probably always has been because he and his angels seem to be an entirely different order of being. At some point he decided the lesser gods weren't cutting it and shut them down.

For afterlives, they got to keep the souls they already had, but don't get any new inmates unless something unusual happens.

We see this with Hades, who has the souls of the Greeks who had faith in him, but wasn't receiving any more in a "river of souls" sense. When Nicodemus' daughter sacrificed herself to him she still went in, so it's still possible to end up in their hands, but not by the prior mechanisms.

So my bet is that the thousand hells are on life support, frozen with whatever totals they had on the day the white god shut down the markets and desperately exploiting what loopholes remain to get more souls.

Molly's hell would be in the same boat, accept she's not dependent on the hell for power like they are. People would have to do things like jump into her hell and kill themselves to become "inmates".
 
I'm not sure how it works in WoD, but in the Dresden Files we sort of have an answer for this.

The white god is the top of the heap, and probably always has been because he and his angels seem to be an entirely different order of being. At some point he decided the lesser gods weren't cutting it and shut them down.

For afterlives, they got to keep the souls they already had, but don't get any new inmates unless something unusual happens.

We see this with Hades, who has the souls of the Greeks who had faith in him, but wasn't receiving any more in a "river of souls" sense. When Nicodemus' daughter sacrificed herself to him she still went in, so it's still possible to end up in their hands, but not by the prior mechanisms.

So my bet is that the thousand hells are on life support, frozen with whatever totals they had on the day the white god shut down the markets and desperately exploiting what loopholes remain to get more souls.

Molly's hell would be in the same boat, accept she's not dependent on the hell for power like they are. People would have to do things like jump into her hell and kill themselves to become "inmates".
I'm not sure that's quite correct. I mean, hellenism is a niche religion now, with even the optimistic measurements put adherents of the religion into low 10s of thousands in the world. Those would be the people going to Hades. On the other hand, Hinduism has close to a billion followers. Yama Kings and the thousand hells might well receive new souls. The East is not well explored in Dresden Files.
 
I'm not sure that's quite correct. I mean, hellenism is a niche religion now, with even the optimistic measurements put adherents of the religion into low 10s of thousands in the world. Those would be the people going to Hades. On the other hand, Hinduism has close to a billion followers. Yama Kings and the thousand hells might well receive new souls. The East is not well explored in Dresden Files.
Butcher is Christian, and made Christian god the "real" god of his setting. Faith does stuff, but there's a reason the white god's servants are star to galaxy busters and it isn't human worship.

Now it's not all one thing IC, so the white god could work through multiple masks in the mortal world, but at the end of the day the big man in the chair makes the rules everyone else has to live with them.
 
Yama Kings are more Buddhist then Hindu.
Buddhism is also a major world religion, so the point stands, but yes, my mistake.
Butcher is Christian, and made Christian god the "real" god of his setting. Faith does stuff, but there's a reason the white god's servants are star to galaxy busters and it isn't human worship.

Now it's not all one thing IC, so the white god could work through multiple masks in the mortal world, but at the end of the day the big man in the chair makes the rules everyone else has to live with them.
Yes, I know. And yes, assuming we trust this (presumed, uncorroborated) WoJ:
Quote from: Uncorroborated WoJ off Reddit
I got to see Jim yesterday during his visit to Sweden.


As he was quickly signing books, I figured I wouldn't be able to get a long answer out of him, so I shot for a yes no question – "Does Satan rule hell like Hades rules his place?" was what I tried to ask, but as soon as I said "Does Satan rule hell-" he frowned and said no. But then he heard the rest of my question and elaborated. I think I remember his answer verbatim: "Hades is like the CEO of his own small company, sort of. Satan is more like an officer of a sprawling multinational conglomerate – the hierarchy of hell operates exactly like a corporation, obviously" By 'an officer', I assume he meant CEO, what with being a fallen archangel and all, but the word he used was officer.
The question is - how would Yama Kings fit into this metaphor? I would guess "board members of a major multinational conglomerate, lesser, perhaps, than the Christian one, but still competitive".
 
Buddhism is also a major world religion, so the point stands, but yes, my mistake.

Yes, I know. And yes, assuming we trust this (presumed, uncorroborated) WoJ:

The question is - how would Yama Kings fit into this metaphor? I would guess "board members of a major multinational conglomerate, lesser, perhaps, than the Christian one, but still competitive".
My assumption has been that Lucy isn't strong enough to unquestionably dominate his faction since he's leading a group of angels. Sure he's bigger than them, but the gap is smaller and we know under some circumstances the various rules they have to follow make it possible for an angel to oppose an archangel (see the guy who came to escort Shiro to heaven).

But that particular WoJ is backed by "trust me bro" so I'm somewhat skeptical of it anyway.

In any case, I think it's telling that no other deities are allowed to do anything in the mortal world unless they accept the restrictions passed down by the white god as Odin did.

People still had faith in their religions, but the gods couldn't follow through anymore. I don't see why the afterlife would be any different, especially since Hades himself basically implies he doesn't get many/any new customers in his appearance in the series.

Or at least that's how I recall it, which the wiki backs up. A majority of his new customers are people trying to break into his vault, which can't possibly be a huge number; just trying takes serious magical horsepower.

Even as a niche religion with membership in the low thousands that can't be true if people who worship him enter his realm on death.
 
Another WoJ says that now the White God was always in charge, but previously he wasn't always in charge. Cosmological history changes to fit the dominant paradigm.

I think Hades doesn't get many new souls because the Hellenistic Pantheon doesn't have many living worshippers.

And on the White God and Odin, it's not, I think that the White God restricts him, but that all Nevernever Powers need a mantle to interact with the world, and Odin's mantle as a deity is worshipper dependent. The White God could be operating under exactly the same restriction, he just has plenty of worshippers so it matters less.

That's just what the laws of reality say, and the White God could be just as bound by them as anyone else. It's just that he's currently winning.

The reason the arrival of Christianity matters isn't because then the White God set the rules to exclude Odin, it's because they were crusading monotheists who refused to allow other religions to exist and insisted with fire and sword, so destroyed the White God's rivals ability to interact with the world while strengthening his.

I'm not sure that's quite correct. I mean, hellenism is a niche religion now, with even the optimistic measurements put adherents of the religion into low 10s of thousands in the world. Those would be the people going to Hades. On the other hand, Hinduism has close to a billion followers. Yama Kings and the thousand hells might well receive new souls. The East is not well explored in Dresden Files.

Hinduism + Buddhism + Chinese and broader East Asian folk religions…

In a world where the population balance is changing, in a few decades the universe may always have had a cosmology based on Hinduism and its influence on Chinese religious practices.

The question is - how would Yama Kings fit into this metaphor? I would guess "board members of a major multinational conglomerate, lesser, perhaps, than the Christian one, but still competitive".

Individual companies in competition but also collaboration with each other as part of an oligopoly.

Or possibly a bunch of rogue divisions of various companies technically led by the Jade Emperor and the Hindu god that are collaborating with each other and against their nominal bosses.
 
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Another WoJ says that now the White God was always in charge, but previously he wasn't always in charge. Cosmological history changes to fit the dominant paradigm.
Cite? Cause I don't recall that one and it seemingly contradicts a lot of what we hear IC.

The Dresden Files doesn't seem to operate on DND rules for its high end entities.

Edit:

I'm not trying to be pain about this, I just find it annoying when the same set of generic pop fantasy rules are painted onto every setting under the sun.
 
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Cite? Cause I don't recall that one and it seemingly contradicts a lot of what we hear IC.

The Dresden Files doesn't seem to operate on DND rules for its high end entities.

Edit:

I'm not trying to be pain about this, I just find it annoying when the same set of generic pop fantasy rules are painted onto every setting under the sun.
I find it annoying too, but as a DND grognard, I protest slightly: Those aren't DND rules. ;) They're more like democracy-rules, suggesting cosmology is up for vote and a god is a sort of political party we can remove from power if it's polling badly.

The DND 3e Deities&Demigods book lays out a bunch of options for how a setting might work wrt godhood: born innately, earned/created by epic deed, earned by stealing from any existing god, imparted by agreement of existing gods, passed on when a god retires, become tiny ancestor god of your family on death and work your way up the ranks, ascend and accumulate power by gathering worshipers. Only that last one is vaguely close to the democracy-rules.
(2e had a weird thing about saying "powers" instead of "gods", 4e mostly dodged the question iirc, haven't got the 1e book at hand.)
 
I find it annoying too, but as a DND grognard, I protest slightly: Those aren't DND rules. ;) They're more like democracy-rules, suggesting cosmology is up for vote and a god is a sort of political party we can remove from power if it's polling badly.

The DND 3e Deities&Demigods book lays out a bunch of options for how a setting might work wrt godhood: born innately, earned/created by epic deed, earned by stealing from any existing god, imparted by agreement of existing gods, passed on when a god retires, become tiny ancestor god of your family on death and work your way up the ranks, ascend and accumulate power by gathering worshipers. Only that last one is vaguely close to the democracy-rules.
(2e had a weird thing about saying "powers" instead of "gods", 4e mostly dodged the question iirc, haven't got the 1e book at hand.)
Fair enough.

I'm most familiar with stuff using the worshippers = power and pantheons as spiritual political parties ruleset for dnd, so that's what I was referring to there even if it doesn't fully cover the ideas we're talking about.

I stand by the general point I was making though.
 
Fair enough.

I'm most familiar with stuff using the worshippers = power and pantheons as spiritual political parties ruleset for dnd, so that's what I was referring to there even if it doesn't fully cover the ideas we're talking about.

I stand by the general point I was making though.
I kinda get that it's a bit overused.

But on the other hand "one god is actually the real god and all-powerful or nearly so" is far more boring to me, unless used very well and in the right setting.
It works in Middle Earth, it does not work in the kitchen-sink of Dresden Files or WoD.
 
I'm most familiar with stuff using the worshippers = power and pantheons as spiritual political parties ruleset for dnd, so that's what I was referring to there even if it doesn't fully cover the ideas we're talking about.
I'd like to point out that "White God was always in charge, but previously he wasn't always in charge. Cosmological history changes to fit the dominant paradigm." (assuming it's correct) doesn't entirely mean "the one with most faithful is in charge". We don't know by which means one's paradigm becomes dominant. For example, White God could have become dominant by winning the round in Games of Divinity. Or by having MIchael fight chosen champions of other religions in a wrestling tournament. Or through some other way. The only thing the citation implies is that the dominant paradigm retroactively changes history to make itself having always being dominant. So, for example, should Molly seize the Throne of Heavens, break open the Black Vault and establish the Eternal Deliberative, we'll probably get an epilogue where the current cosmology always was a larger version of Time of Cascading Years.
 
Votes as they stand. No new votes in some time.
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Jan 8, 2023 at 10:05 AM, finished with 112 posts and 19 votes.

  • [X] No. you hardly know these people, exchange emails and leave
    [X] Plan Measure Twice
    -[X] Attempt to set up a lore exchange related to the pathfinders
    —[X] Explain in general what they are, what their operation in Cleveland was trying to, and that they're handled for the moment without getting into details about who or how it was handled
    -[X] Offer to put together a packet containing what information remains of their research and equipment. In exchange request equivalent value in alchemical lore. (Include things like a brief write up of their activities, sketches of their facilities as relevant to their research, and printed photos of any equipment we have of their's from multiple angles with identifying labels)
    -[X] If they seem amicable, further offer to start a little joint research project on it if they have someone local for you to speak with.
    -[X] Stunt: Taking a deep breath, Molly looks over the agents again and comes to a decision. "Trust is a fragile thing, but you two have been as reasonable as can be expected of people in your position. Perhaps more than that, I'll admit to wanting to find a trustworthy mortal organization in all of this" She says, gesturing in a vague way at the supernatural world as a whole.
    -[X] "So how about we take another little baby step, and see where it goes" growing more serious Molly looks one agent in the eye, then the other, and asks "Have either of you heard of the Pathfinders before?"
    [X] Trade them knowledge of fomori underground base biology as a "teaser" of sorts
    -[X] Use Occult excellency to make the information better
    -[X] "Prove my bonafides as a scholar, you say? Sure. You have a pen and a piece of paper?" you smile, before starting to sketch what looks like a mix between an autopsy report, a scientific paper, and an article taken from a medieval bestiary. You draw the outline of a great mutant crustacean that you saw under the surface of lake Erie, with a cutout detailing its internal structure, and make detailed notes on how it functions, and what dangers it represents.
 
If two armies are fighting in a city and I kind of expect that city to be destroyed. The war in Ukraine makes that very clear.
It was the armies of Summer and Winter right? Not just the queens right?

Now I don't know if the Yomi kings can summon up an army of demons. Can they? Because if a few thousand demons are fighting in a city that city is likely toast.
Nobody said anything about two armies fighting.
Just that things got out of hand and the city vanished, implying it was a magic thing.
As far as the sources say, no armies were deployed.

The Yama Kings do send demons and akuma through.
They themselves are capable of showing up in the mortal world uninvited; Mikaboshi is explicitly called out as doing so with a frequency that unsettles other Yama Kings. And its said most of them only move with a small army of servitors.

But nothing is mentioned about their ability to send armies of conquest or retribution out into the mortal world.
They presumably rely on infiltrators for a reason.
Is that how it works? Not sure the mechanics for how our hell works as an afterlife.
It is how it canonically works for the Yama Kings.

Their power rests on external sources of power, from absorbing corrupted energy from death, pain and misery to torturing captive souls as a perverse perpetual energy machine. Mikaboshi canonically bootstrapped himself to Yama King status by geomancy: arranging for corrupt energy to flow to himself.

Outside their Hell the power of a Yama King fades rapidly. Inside their Hells, their authority is great but far from absolute; heavy hitters like Enma-O have rebels that defy him openly. Its also worth remembering that they only get a tiny fraction of the dead from the Far East; the vast majority move on.

They just dont willingly release anyone that falls into their clutches.

Thats not how the Fae Courts work.
The power of the Courts is essentially more or less constant.
Waxes and wanes with the seasons, but while they are connected to the mortal world, their magic power is not reliant on it.

PS
There are limits to what types of corrupted energy Yama Kings can easily absorb.

The Yama King Pika Don went to the Yin World to reap defiled energy from the nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki immediately after WW2. He only absorbed a small amount before falling unconscious for decades.
Whether he's metabolizing the energy or is just poisoned is unknown.
The Yama Kings fight all the time and don't cooperate at all as far as I can tell.
Thats inaccurate.
The Yama Kings do fight and compete, but they cooperate all the damn time.

Their very first great act of defiance towards the August Personage was a joint venture where they ripped away a great chunk of spirit lands from the Yang Worlds and fused it with their home territories. That was the origin of Yomi Wan.
They repeated this by tearing chunks from the Yin World to grow Yomi.

The murder of Yen-Lo was also a cooperative campaign. The fall of Shau-Yar Han was a collective effort as well.
And thats just the named ones.
I disagree here. We are likely to have two questions. One should be spent on "the organization's true goals". That question does indicate the presence of inflitrators, because if the organization's bosses are subverted, the true goals of the organization would be different from the situation where there are no infiltrators. The second question should indeed be "the list of hostile organizations infiltrating the Library" or something like this.
To use an example:

The true goals of the White Council being self protection and the enforcement of the Laws of Magic wont tell you anything about infiltrators or traitors. List of hostile organizations tells you nothing about people working for themselves. You know, like Kemmler in his earlier days, or the Corpsetaker.

And we lack infinite focuses for organizations anyway.

Molly suspects Hyde was about to say Society of Jesus.
Huh. That would be a perception fail on someone's part.

I dont see why Hyde would think the Jesuits were a higher power with the authority to rule on magic stuff.
Or why Molly would think Von Trier would be hushing Hyde from mentioning the Jesuits inside a Catholic church.
They arent exactly a secret society.

I know Father Forthill is a member of the Ordo Malleus.

That's an interesting question.

We don't know how the metaphysics play here. Maybe the Yama Kings can bring demons into reality, but I suspect it's more likely that the demons would have to be summoned by mortal (or at least non-spirit) minions of the Yama Kings who already are in our world. In WoD the Yama Kings are all very interested in turning people, mortal, Wan-Kuei or other, into their Akuma to have agents in the mortal world.

They wouldn't need that if they could just send hundreds of Shikome or Rakshasa after any problem that catches their eye.
And in Dresden Files people also generally look for a summoner when there's demons around, rather then assuming they just came of their own accord.
The Yama Kings can personally come to the mortal world without invitation, and bring a retinue. They can send agents and subvert people. They cant bring armies of invasion, and they are vastly less powerful in the mortal world than the Powers of the Dresdenverse we see in canon.

Unlike someone like Mab, who can straight up end nations by sheer magical grunt.

Oh, and the YKs die if they are killed.
The central figures of the Fae Courts only die in particular locations like the Stone Table or on Halloween.
Mab isnt worrying about getting shanked by a mugger in Chicago.

By contrast, if you're buff enough or lucky enough to ambush and kill a Yama King, its dead and gone.
Either someone else takes its place, or other Yama Kings tear up its domain and absorb it. Some have explicitly been killed by, and I quote "agents from the Middle Kingdom".

Assuming it has a domain. Some Yama Kings dont.
little bit late but: holy fuck this is hilarious. And stupid. Particularly from someone who is a) a Catholic, b) daughter of a Knight of the Cross, c) friends with a Wizard of the White Council.
She's a teenager. An American teenager.
Not all that unexpected that she thinks two hundred years is a long time when she's thinking in mortal terms.
 
So, with our clones having all the passive charms we do, how many passive charms are there and what powers dk we get?

When we get our Kingdom we will need the clones to staff them.
 
Found an interesting low cost merit that would be pretty good to take.
Geomancer (•)
Book: Sanctum And Sigil, p; 99
Prerequisite: Occult Skill Specialty in Geomancy Effect: The character has a sense for the ley line energies in the local landscape, and can apply certain principles to its particular conditions to alter the ley lines' shapeand/or flow through construction, architecture, interior design, landscaping and pretty much any activity thatgoes on in the place. What this means is that the character can make an extended-action Intelligence + Occult roll to figure out
what steps need to be taken in the area to affect its ley energies. The target number depends on the size of the area. A single room might require only five successes, while the entire house might need 10 successes; a city block might require 20 or more successes. The time per roll is one day, during which the character studies the area and contemplates how geomantic principles might apply. Possible tool modifiers include classic geomancy manuals (+1 or +2, depending on quality), dowsing rods (+1) and even satellite imagery (+2).
Dramatic Failure: The character completely misunderstands the meaning and portent of certain features of the area. If his project is implemented, it will have the opposite effect than that desired (ley flow will weaken rather than get stronger, a line will be repelled rather than attracted, etc.).
Failure: The character fails to grasp how any activity might alter the area's ley line landscape.
Success: The character has a blueprint for how to alter the shape and/or flow of ley lines in the area.
Exceptional Success: The character's blueprint is so efficient it can save the project time and money, cutting in half the amount of work required.

Generally, altering a line requires construction that involves raising or lowering the ground level, or placing and/or removing structures. Altering the flow requires more subtle affects involving placement of objects in the area and even the look and feel (color and imagery) of buildings and objects. In other words, this means getting permits for construction, hiring architects and workers and buying materials. Not every mage can afford this kind of endeavor. Most of them try to manipulate private builders or City Hall into doing it for them.

In addition to planning mundane projects for the alteration of ley lines, the geomancer can attempt to find undiscovered or dormant Hallows based on where he thinks they might occur, given particular conditions in an area. He can study a region to extrapolate the potential location of Hallows, and then investigate the locations he pinpoints to see if he was right. There are no set rules for this; it mainly involves the Storyteller feeding the geomancer clues that might lead him to the proper spot. The Storyteller must decide whether or not a Hallow is really possible at such a place or if it's just a dead end — or a trap that the geomancer's rivals, following the same clues, have set to spring upon him.
 
I kinda get that it's a bit overused.

But on the other hand "one god is actually the real god and all-powerful or nearly so" is far more boring to me, unless used very well and in the right setting.
It works in Middle Earth, it does not work in the kitchen-sink of Dresden Files or WoD.
I'd like to point out that "White God was always in charge, but previously he wasn't always in charge. Cosmological history changes to fit the dominant paradigm." (assuming it's correct) doesn't entirely mean "the one with most faithful is in charge". We don't know by which means one's paradigm becomes dominant. For example, White God could have become dominant by winning the round in Games of Divinity. Or by having MIchael fight chosen champions of other religions in a wrestling tournament. Or through some other way. The only thing the citation implies is that the dominant paradigm retroactively changes history to make itself having always being dominant. So, for example, should Molly seize the Throne of Heavens, break open the Black Vault and establish the Eternal Deliberative, we'll probably get an epilogue where the current cosmology always was a larger version of Time of Cascading Years.
I had a whole thing written up about both of these, but decided to stop and check that I hadn't been talking out of my ass on my base assumptions first and I think I found the WoJ @Alratan was talking about.

Dudesan: The same story [Backup] seemed to imply that entities could gain or lose power retroactively, in a wibbley-wobbly timey-wimey sort of way. For example, The Almighty is the Creator of the Universe, but He hasn't always been the Creator of the Universe[4] . Is there anything to this assumption, and if so, might we see it explored in greater detail later?
Jim: 7) You're assigning limits where there aren't any. In the Dresden Files universe, what changes really isn't the actual beings. It's our understanding of who and what they are.
cite

So it seems to me that the answer to this discussion is Maybe for the purposes of canon.

No one is actually changing and reality isn't being rewritten, it's just that the mortal perspective is limited and the aspects of reality that fit into the human world don't cover all of what's there.

Assuming that what we see is true even if it's not complete my thought would be that there is a singular originating force, which has companion elements/children of some kind that are at minimum in its peer group, but that the names and features mortals know them by fall into the "blind men groping an elephant" Aesop.

Which is also presumably the distinction between the power level of beings like Mab vs. say angels. Those guys are in Plato's cave with us, instead of being in the back making shadow puppets with God.

Some of the other gods might also work in the back room, but I don't think all of them do. The Yama kings seem like they're more on the end of Mab than Uriel, since they're so dependent on mortal souls in their source lore.

As to the relevance of this to the quest, the exaltation would presumably be something between bringing our own light source and a secret passage into the projector's largely forgotten supply closet.

Seeing what the projection booth "actually" looks like would be really neat, assuming we make it that far and it doesn't conflict with our promise to the white god.

Which has gotten a bit far afield from the original point, but what I'm getting at is that I think we were all a little off.
 
To use an example:

The true goals of the White Council being self protection and the enforcement of the Laws of Magic wont tell you anything about infiltrators or traitors. List of hostile organizations tells you nothing about people working for themselves. You know, like Kemmler in his earlier days, or the Corpsetaker.

And we lack infinite focuses for organizations anyway.
If the White Council was infiltrated at the highest level, it's true goal would be something like "bringing on the apocalypse".

We don't have infinite foci, but we also need to know what the organization is actually about. Not "what's stated for the grunts", but "what the actual leadership considers the true goals when they issue the orders".
 
If the White Council was infiltrated at the highest level, it's true goal would be something like "bringing on the apocalypse".

We don't have infinite foci, but we also need to know what the organization is actually about. Not "what's stated for the grunts", but "what the actual leadership considers the true goals when they issue the orders".
I dont believe thats an accurate interpretation.

For example, the Winter Court's true goals remained defending the Outer Gates even after Nemesis infected and subverted 2 of its 4 most senior people(Lea, Maeve). The Summer Court's true goals remained unchanged even when Aurora was infected by Nemesis, and being supported by a renegade Winter Knight.

The White Court's goals remained its own aggrandisement, even when it was being subverted by Nemesis.
Key individuals of an organization can be subverted or disloyal without changing the organization's goals.

Furthermore, an most organizations are much more than just its leadership.
Questions like that will give you deceptive answers. Especially in a setting where mind control and possession is a thing.
This isnt a Crown-soluble situation, for both Watsonian and Doylistic reasons.
 
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If the White Council was infiltrated at the highest level, it's true goal would be something like "bringing on the apocalypse".

We don't have infinite foci, but we also need to know what the organization is actually about. Not "what's stated for the grunts", but "what the actual leadership considers the true goals when they issue the orders".
Why not ask for something a little less specific?

Assuming for the moment that asking after goals will get what you expect, it would still miss stuff like how far they'd go to achieve them and if they're actually reasonable relative to their resources.

We could instead ask after the nature of the organization, which would presumably give us less specific details but also help us get an immediate grasp of their general character as a group.

Sort of like a soul gaze essentially.
 
I had a whole thing written up about both of these, but decided to stop and check that I hadn't been talking out of my ass on my base assumptions first and I think I found the WoJ @Alratan was talking about.


cite

So it seems to me that the answer to this discussion is Maybe for the purposes of canon.

No one is actually changing and reality isn't being rewritten, it's just that the mortal perspective is limited and the aspects of reality that fit into the human world don't cover all of what's there.

Assuming that what we see is true even if it's not complete my thought would be that there is a singular originating force, which has companion elements/children of some kind that are at minimum in its peer group, but that the names and features mortals know them by fall into the "blind men groping an elephant" Aesop.

Which is also presumably the distinction between the power level of beings like Mab vs. say angels. Those guys are in Plato's cave with us, instead of being in the back making shadow puppets with God.

Some of the other gods might also work in the back room, but I don't think all of them do. The Yama kings seem like they're more on the end of Mab than Uriel, since they're so dependent on mortal souls in their source lore.

As to the relevance of this to the quest, the exaltation would presumably be something between bringing our own light source and a secret passage into the projector's largely forgotten supply closet.

Seeing what the projection booth "actually" looks like would be really neat, assuming we make it that far and it doesn't conflict with our promise to the white god.

Which has gotten a bit far afield from the original point, but what I'm getting at is that I think we were all a little off.
Even if we take that WoG as truth for canon-Dresden Files, it can't be true for an Exalted Crossover.

The very existance of our Exaltation means that at some point in the past an impossible superweapon designed to defeat the unimaginably powerful but not trule omnipotent Titans of old.

We have enough hints, like the Neverborn name and our memory of Raksha, that a situation at least vaguely similar to Creation in the Exalted-setting once existed.
So even if God is the big cheese now, there must have been a time when all was Chaos until the Priomordials invented stuff like Causality and Existance.
 
Even if we take that WoG as truth for canon-Dresden Files, it can't be true for an Exalted Crossover.

The very existance of our Exaltation means that at some point in the past an impossible superweapon designed to defeat the unimaginably powerful but not trule omnipotent Titans of old.

We have enough hints, like the Neverborn name and our memory of Raksha, that a situation at least vaguely similar to Creation in the Exalted-setting once existed.
So even if God is the big cheese now, there must have been a time when all was Chaos until the Priomordials invented stuff like Causality and Existance.
An easy counter point is who created the infinite chaos of the Wyld that formed the primordials.
 
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