Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

  1. The Sight is very all or nothing so yes, it would be modeled as a merit rather than something with dots like a background or a path
  2. You guys would have to ask Lydia IC what her father than teach her, that said in principle Molly does think the link should allow teaching yes
I know this was said a while ago. But, if we did get the sight would you nerf it? Cause it's in many ways better than most sensory charms from exalted. It shows true things, it doesn't have a time limit, everything you see when using it is memorized, and there is no time limit. Also doesn't cost basically anything except normal users sanity.
 
I know this was said a while ago. But, if we did get the sight would you nerf it? Cause it's in many ways better than most sensory charms from exalted. It shows true things, it doesn't have a time limit, everything you see when using it is memorized, and there is no time limit. Also doesn't cost basically anything except normal users sanity.

It is only better if you are Exalted with the right charm, a sensory power with a chance to drive you mad if you see the wrong thing is by definition worse than any sensory charm because charms cannot hurt you
 
It is only better if you are Exalted with the right charm, a sensory power with a chance to drive you mad if you see the wrong thing is by definition worse than any sensory charm because charms cannot hurt you
Yes we are immune to said insanity though it also you know doesn't have a time limit, costs zero essence, and it's affects are just better than some charms. So not nerfed? Nerfed?

Also logically if we could memorize everything we would see we would learn faster I know that obviously won't be taken into account because it's too op though.
 
Yes we are immune to said insanity though it also you know doesn't have a time limit, costs zero essence, and it's affects are just better than some charms. So not nerfed? Nerfed?

Also logically if we could memorize everything we would see we would learn faster I know that obviously won't be taken into account because it's too op though.

Not nerfed, though it would be wise not to keep it up when you do not have active IPP, which is one scene per activation.
 
The only way to keep the sight on safely with no risk of insanity is to use Impervious Primacy Mantle, one of your charm that protects your mind. That charm, not the Sight itself costs one essence per scene.
Oh okay so that makes perfect sense we can still keep it on and risk ourselves or just use it in safer environments then? On the bright side with the mantle we can look at an angel and be totally fine.
 
So we'd end up with beautifully designed but totally nonsensical IDs?

Cop, after pulling over a ghoul: "Why does your license have "In God We Trust" written on it?"
Been lurking and reading the quest and just want to say that getting a copy of your birth certificate only costs around 25-30 dollars in any county and from there you can get a state issued id for 20 bucks in Illinois.

So there is really no need to try and get fake ones unless these ghouls were declared legally dead.
 
The only way to keep the sight on safely with no risk of insanity is to use Impervious Primacy Mantle, one of your charm that protects your mind. That charm, not the Sight itself costs one essence per scene.
I think it could be significantly worse than that. The problem with Sight is that the memories it leaves are perfect and eternal. If we look at the wrong thing with the Sight we could be caught needing to activate Impervious Primacy Mantle every single scene because the memory is constantly trying to drive us insane not just a one and done effect to be resisted.
 
I think it could be significantly worse than that. The problem with Sight is that the memories it leaves are perfect and eternal. If we look at the wrong thing with the Sight we could be caught needing to activate Impervious Primacy Mantle every single scene because the memory is constantly trying to drive us insane not just a one and done effect to be resisted.
That shouldn't be how it works for obvious reasons. Memories alone shouldn't make our eyes ooze out. Even if they should we are exalted.
 
Yeah, if you took a mental attack on the chin, the memory of it isn't going to boomerang back and whack you once your reflexive scenelong mental protection charm is down. That ain't how things were intended to work.
 
I think it could be significantly worse than that. The problem with Sight is that the memories it leaves are perfect and eternal. If we look at the wrong thing with the Sight we could be caught needing to activate Impervious Primacy Mantle every single scene because the memory is constantly trying to drive us insane not just a one and done effect to be resisted.

That might be a problem if you did not have a demon as part of your soul and mind, as is you can just hand off anything your human brain does not want to have perfect recall to Usum once it is a memory. You still need IPP when seeing something in person though as the Molly part of you is the one which is in charge of the exaltation more broadly.
 
COMMENTARY
-The training scene says hilarious things about Molly's new pain thresholds.
The monk didnt know old Molly, and Molly herself hasnt really noticed it as anything out of the ordinary. I wonder what hapoens if someone a little more normal ever walks in on them.

-On the bright side, he has much better calibrations for if he has to train any other semi-divine students.
I do wonder what he thinks about Molly literally soaking up the first Devil Fighter techniques in weeks, and as part-time study at that. Moderately terrifying I suspect.

-Noting that entire scene of interaction with Devisimar is worth revisiting.
Its notable that he's probing Molly for most of that interaction, and becomes noticeably less tense when she keeps talking with the same attitudes she had at normal.

I wonder if he noticed Molly's new aura of command against CoDs.
Or it might just be that he felt Molly go shintai in the museum. Which he conspicuously didnt ask her about.
Which suggests he probably asked Dresden. Or maybe Michael.

-Worth noting that I dont think Molly mentioned taking lessons from the old monk to Dresden.
So Harry knowing about it is evidence of a significant amount of back channel chatter about Molly's condition going on behind her back between the adults involved in her life.

-Steelskin being unlocked is very good news. Something to buy at next XP spend if we can shake loose 3XP.
I would love the Celestial Eyes/Perception one, but its 4 dots, and unfortunately Devisimar either doesnt know or is unwilling to teach Devil Fighter techniques that advanced.

-Thoroughly enjoyed the Bob/Molly scene.

COMMENTARY
Hmm. Coffee might be a gift that Molly can make and send around for Christmas.
Buy a batch of green beans, then roast and grind them with a Craft Excellency and Tool Constructs, and put them in custom containers. Should last longer than whiskey.

This was a social rout.
I get the impression Thomas' Hunger currently feels like a mouse in the presence of a very large cat.
At least he isnt fleeing the cafe in fear.

I wonder if Justine would ping for CoD
Then again, we dont know when she got infected by Nemesis. She might still be clean.

Molly hasnt noticed they are siblings yet.
I mean, they dont look alike much; Dresden's like three quarters of a foot taller despite being younger, and they have different coloring. But the way they backtalk each other is a dead giveaway. And they both wear matched pentacles around their neck IIRC.


Hmm.
Demonic Primacy of Essence yields a -2 difficulty reduction when dealing with Creatures of Darkness, yet we're rolling at DC5.
That suggests that we would have been rolling at DC7 against Thomas normally, which is described as Challenging.

We still rolled him hilariously though. And he is one of the most powerful Whites alive, at least when he's well fed.

I wonder how Lara would do.
She's several centuries old I think, instead of Thomas' forty some years, but she isnt old enough to count as an ancient vampire. Maybe her position as de facto head of the White Court translates to extra metaphysical oomph.

Pretty poor in ExWoD though.
The Prayer Eating charms that enable it are pretty expensive for what they do, and its minimal gain.
I think the only real resource regen is owning a Dragons Nest.


Sun Denying Spite + Essence*clones rocking Rage Recast aspects + VLE + Wind Born Stride at E3.
No Excellencies, probably getting same Shih Art buffs affecting main body.
I'll note Lara is a few centuries max.
 
"This kind of set up isn't good for anyone," she insists, tight-lipped. "They need a new leader and some way to overrule that leader if they are abusive."
This is very tricky and why I liked the options to split up the group. It's easy to get this group to serve us and our ends because that is what MIS was designed for. However getting them to treat each other well is much harder. MIS just gives generally loyalty and obedience not really fine grained. If a leader beats up their subordinates because they truly believe that it serves our will it seem like that is likely to be allowed and if not they just have to deal with the hunger for a bit.

Only thing I can think of is getting them all cyberdevils phones which means that members can whistle blow if they feel like they are being abused. Also with our rampant privacy invasion we will be able to verify and confirm such reports.

Would have the cyberdevils report, but they aren't going to be the best judges for what is abuse.
 
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As an academic involved in education, it doesn't work like that. The people you are talking about are constantly using their skills. They can have deep dementia, but they'll still be able to review scientific texts and in some cases solve math equations.

Skills and knowledge that aren't being used get forgotten relatively quickly, on the times pan of several years. That's why they test for retained knowledge in various education course certifications.

I am willing to bet that you won't be able to remember... Let's see, Menelaus's theorem if you got taught it in school and you aren't using it daily. Or residue from complex analysis. Or everything taught in geography. He'll, a number of people believe that the Sun orbits the Earth despite being taught otherwise.

Knowledge and skills atrophy very quickly, we see it all the time.
1)You can forget details with time.
You dont forget the entire field, not unless you have neurological issues.

2)There is no mechanical basis in ExWoD, Ex2 or WoD for Skill loss due to disuse.
If they dont have Academics, its safe to assume they never had it in the first place unless the QM says otherwise.
Lady of the Shadowed Halls
COMMENTARY
I understand Charity's concerns about internal group governance.
But there are reasons not to disrupt group dynamics until we are certain about what we're doing, especially given as we wont always be present. And the group trust him where he is.

We need to build trust before attempting to change things unless there's obvious issues.

There's also the paperwork question.
Im assuming the old core had valid paperwork while they worked for the Red Court even if only it was convenient. And the Red Court almost certainly ensured that they have no outstanding criminal warrants.

Dunno if the younglings have any outstanding legal issues though.
And getting paperwork from the state can take months at a time.

@DragonParadox
QUESTION
Im assuming that worstcase Molly is going to want these people out of here and into warm lodgings before winter.
But is Molly looking to move them immediately, or is she planning to wait at least a couple months?

In one case, we only worry about Food, Clothes, Sanitary Supplies, and Camping Gear.
In the other scenario, we have to budget for Housing, Utilities and Transport.
 
@DragonParadox
QUESTION
Im assuming that worstcase Molly is going to want these people out of here and into warm lodgings before winter.
But is Molly looking to move them immediately, or is she planning to wait at least a couple months?

In one case, we only worry about Food, Clothes, Sanitary Supplies, and Camping Gear.
In the other scenario, we have to budget for Housing, Utilities and Transport.

You guys are Molly in this sense, it's your call
 
1)You can forget details with time.
You dont forget the entire field, not unless you have neurological issues.
With total and complete disuse, you can forget entire languages, much less specialized knowledge. Yes, you'll probably retain some basics, like addition, subtraction and maybe division / multiplication (if we are talking math), but that's pretty much it.
2)There is no mechanical basis in ExWoD, Ex2 or WoD for Skill loss due to disuse.
If they dont have Academics, its safe to assume they never had it in the first place unless the QM says otherwise.
Narration pretty much always trumps mechanics, though. So, "ten years has passed, and your skills atrophied, your character has X-1 dots at Ability you didn't use" seem like an easy mechanical implementation.
 
The firearms speculation started with the suggestion that firearms 3 + stealth 4 meant that they could serve as sniper support in the field. It's a relatively low-risk job for our minions that takes advantage of their existing skills if we want to take them on a mission. Enemy snipers are annoying, but friendly ones are great, and there may be future scenarios where we have time to quickly set a couple minions up with rapidly hand-made rifles and ammo along with sniper nest positions.

And ninja'd by the update. Way more complicated vote than I want to deal with when I'm about to go to bed, so I'll deal with it in the morning.

And we actually got Charity's approval on this! Means we probably won't get pushback from her on expanding our minion network in the future. I love the little detail of them using a green sun as their new territory marker. Shows the change in management right away.
I find that people generally overestimate the utility of snipers, and underestimate just how difficult it is to actually both to find a situation where they have utility, and to actually move them into position.
It takes a lot more than knowing how to use a gun and sneak.

$14,000 split among 10 people is something, but we need consistent revenue to make good plans.
My immediate objection is along the lines of internal dynamics.

The other two older ghouls are explicitly noted to have served as a restraining influence on Adam before our coming.
There's room to see if a change of circumstances moderates Adam's behavior, especially since the group apparently trusts him.
Alternatively, we need time to see if a better leader presents themself.

But in the meantime we shouldnt disrupt that check by splitting them up into different domiciles.

I do think there's merit to the suggestion of splitting up some responsibilities though.
Leave Adam in operational command with a phone, but make one of the other elders the treasurer with the cash fund and another cellphone, and the third elder in charge of the food.

Then give a third cellphone to the youngest of the group.


A five bedroom, two bathroom house in Chicago today starts in the $1700-2000/monthly rent in the cheaper neighborhoods.
If we had the money to buy, we'd be looking at starting around $80,000 according to Redfin, but median would be at least a hundred thousand dollars more. Probably much cheaper in 2008, given the housing bubble popping, but I'll work with the low end.

Then we'd also have to worry about transportation costs.

OPTION A
Rent for a single 5-6 bedroom, 2 bathroom house: ~$2000/1 month
Utilities (power, water, gas, sewer, cable/phone): ~$400/ 1 month.
Monthly passes on Chicago mass transit is $75 per person: $600/1 month.
Monthly groceries at $600 per person(2x normal): ~$5400/nine people/ 1 month
Clothes/sanitary supplies/laundry budget: $150/person: ~$1500/month/ 1 month
Contingency Fund: $1000
2x cellphones: $100
Defensive/protective gear(requires Crafting): $1000

Total: $12000


OPTION B
Camping supplies: ~$2000
Contingency Fund: $1000.
3x cellphones: $100
Monthly groceries at $600 per person(2x normal): ~$5400/nine people.
Clothes/sanitary supplies/laundry budget: $150/person: ~$1500/month
Defensive/protective gear(requires Crafting): $1000
Total: $11000


Still gonna need a bunch of stuff, but thats just the basics I can see for either scenario.
 
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Whatever the route we go, I think every minion should be equipped with hmped cellphone. Both from a practical perspective of having a watcher always there reporting to us if needed, and from a social perspective of helping to resocialize them by connecting them to the internet (and increasing their utility), every one of them should have a demonic companion. It's not that expensive.
 
Whatever the route we go, I think every minion should be equipped with hmped cellphone. Both from a practical perspective of having a watcher always there reporting to us if needed, and from a social perspective of helping to resocialize them by connecting them to the internet (and increasing their utility), every one of them should have a demonic companion. It's not that expensive.
For one thing, the modern smartphones arent standard yet in 2006. Blackberries and Palm are about the best you'll find.
The Iphone is released in 2007, and Android OS in 2008.
Mobile Internet access is not as expected as it currently is IRL.

For another, I dont think we should tell them about the cyberdevils; no need to propagate Molly's abilities when not necessary, and Im not really seeing a reason why they should know.
Just tell them that the phones are enchanted to be able to reach Molly's phone at need.

If anyone has any other suggestions let me know.

VOTE
[X]Plan Red Dog Redemption
-[X] [Leadership] Separation of Powers
--[X]Command/Security Adam
--[X]Treasurer/Health/Housekeeping: Bones
--[X]Food: Lockjaw
--[X]Youngest/Diplomat/Ombudsman: Sarah
[X] [Food and Amenities]Budget: $11300
--[X]Camping Supplies:$2000
--[X]Contingency Fund:$1000
--[X]Communications/Cellphones: $200 (4x phones for Security + Treasurer + Food + Youngest)
--[X]Groceries: $5400/9 ghouls
--[X]Clothes/Sanitary Supplies/Laundry: $1500
--[X]First Aid/Pharmaceuticals Kit: $200
--[X]Defensive/Protective Gear: $1000
[X] [Standing orders] Write in
--[X]Patrol the worksite and deter looters and vandals
--[X]Avoid combat if possible


REASON
Take a month or two to prepare. Its still midsummer, so its still bearable to camp/live outdoors even for vanilla humans.

We can afford to take the time to actually explore alternative housing options for the Red Dogs, and see what our budget going forward looks like. Furthermore, it ensures that for the first month, they have their maximum strength on site so they arent vulnerable while displaying a new prosperity. And that 1-2 months translates to time to touch base with their neighbors

Camping Supplies is everything from bedding, air mattresses and waterproof tarps to used kitchenware and propane powered burners. Everything else is in the name.
That leaves Molly with $2700 left as backup, at least until she gets around to crafting more gemstones.

Formalize the division of powers inside the organization, to address Charity's concerns and mitigate the risks of abuse.
There isnt really a tradition of internal democracy here to support, so we have to be content with establishing some formal checks and balances.
 
Marconi already knows about the cyber devils it doesn't really seem worth inconveniencing ourselves to keep them secret at this point. In general we get new abilities faster than people can learn to adjust to our current ones.
 
For another, I dont think we should tell them about the cyberdevils; no need to propagate Molly's abilities when not necessary, and Im not really seeing a reason why they should know.
Just tell them that the phones are enchanted to be able to reach Molly's phone at need.
I disagree here. They are well and truly hooked onto our power at this moment. Connecting them with cyberdevils affects their development. It ensures (or at least makes it more likely) that their loyalty won't wear off once the novelty of their new existence does. Cyberdevils also provide a lot of quality of life help that they might require, depending on how beast-like they lived prior to encountering us.

If anyone has any other suggestions let me know.
Entertainment and a way to recharge cellphones and to power other amenities

[X]Plan Red Dog Redemption with Cyberdevils and entertainment
-[X] [Leadership] Separation of Powers
--[X]Command/Security Adam
--[X]Treasurer/Health/Housekeeping: Bones
--[X]Food: Lockjaw
--[X]Youngest/Diplomat/Ombudsman: Sarah
-[X] [Food and Amenities]Budget: $12550
--[X]Camping Supplies:$2000
--[X]Contingency Fund:$1000
--[X]Communications/Cellphones: $450 (9x phones for everyone)
--[X]Groceries: $5400/9 ghouls
--[X]Clothes/Sanitary Supplies/Laundry: $1500
--[X]First Aid/Pharmaceuticals Kit: $200
--[X]Defensive/Protective Gear: $1000
--[X] Entertainment. Books, comics, board games, an old TV 500$
--[X] A portable generator, 500$

-[X] [Standing orders] Write in
--[X]Patrol the worksite and deter looters and vandals
--[X]Avoid combat if possible
 
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