Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

[X] Summoning, warding and binding, selling this one to Harry will probably be the hardest...but if you can though. You remember all too well the fear and awe saw reflected in the gaze of the Pathfinder 'nurse' and of vampires subtle and overt, a useful thing in negotiating even with dark spirits more powerful than your electronic friends (Requires additional Persuasion rolls)

Specifically so we can summon devils of the Wicked City to get them to teach their techno-magical enchantments and alchemy as it synergises vastly better with Molly's Wicked City crafting charm.



Remember that by default the products of alchemy last one day before going off. Industrial scale production is impossible because distribution is impossible.
No, it just means that industrial production becomes a point of use issue. We can supply a local population with a potion in large amounts, but not a non-local population.

One of the interesting thoughts I have had is a wonder if we could make ethical Red Vampire minions through alchemical blood production?
 
Does Harry know anything from the path of fortune?
Harry is simulated as a Mage, which is a different splat than Sorcerers.

Long story short, Sorcerers are more limited, less versatile, less powerful Mages. Sorcerers are minor splat, Mages are major splat. Terrestrial vs Celestial. Less short version...
Bulletpoints + why we are even learning sorcery if it is so weak;

1) As opposed to Paths that offer somewhat broad spectrums of effects, Mages have Spheres, that cover incredibly broad spectrum of effects. One sphere is easily worth 2-3 paths, very roughly speaking.
2) Within these nine spheres, Mage spells are comprehensively more powerful through both difference in raw potency and intentional lack of clear limits.
2a) Where sorcerers need Rituals to mix effects from different paths - sometimes even one of the two fairly specific merits, per every specific combination/multi-path spells - Mages can combine anything and everything in their Spheres, and they could do it on the fly. Scry and Die is difficult for Sorcerers, easy for Mages.
2b) Mage crafting system, Wondercrafting, is very strong. Breadth of effects possible scales with available spheres, but final numerical limits are vague and often intentionally undefined. Time Machines are possible. Permanent broad alterations of physics is possible. Permanent attribute enhancement is possible. War machines that make much meme'ed military heavy tank statblook look like a fluffy kitten are possible. Anything is possible, the sky is the limit.

Broadly, Mages make Sorcerers look very sad, in comparison. Incredibly sad. It takes several times more XP for sorcerer to achieve the same general potency as a Mage. It is easily Terrestrial Vs Celestial situation.

For Molly specifically, though there is a big, big, beeeeeeeeg but.

Infernals buy sorceries at a great discount by default, DP allows us to discount paths further, and dice-pools that define potency of Sorcerous spells interact with Exalted Excellencies, difficulty adjusters and Soul-Rendering Practice/[theoretical homebrew equivalent] in ways both beautiful and terrible. Finally, Infernal Charmset has some intentional thematic holes in it that are moderately hard to cover even with homebrew. Healing others is much harder with Infernal charmset, for example.

This makes stuff that is overwise broadly terrestrial-tier to be relevant to our interests. Infernals supercharge otherwise weak system by orders of magnitude.
 
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Remember that by default the products of alchemy last one day before going off. Industrial scale production is impossible because distribution is impossible.
Even if ridiculous exalted success rates won't help with it (we have what, 22 dice (Int+Occult X 2 + WHWH + stunt) with stunt? At -4 difficulty (CCC + BSM). With 1s not substracting successes because Occult is favored), 1 day expiration rate is not little. It's essentially fresh food delivery expiration rate.
 
[X] Healing, one of the most demanding and complex fields of magic as well as one in which Bob has limited experience, but if you can master this it might be a boon beyond price in battle alongside allies less tough than yourself
 
One of the interesting thoughts I have had is a wonder if we could make ethical Red Vampire minions through alchemical blood production?
Should be possible at 3 dots Alchemy. 4, if QM feels like making things difficult for narrative reasons. Base artificial blood, that is. Something more supernaturally potent would be higher.
Supplying large populations with artificial blood
That's what Key and Kingdom Hell with a large population of native Sorcerers is for.
At higher dots, longer durations should be possible. If not, Enchanting or Chronomancy should be capable of extending the shelf life. That said, Yog is correct, crafting charms + huge dice pools allow for incredibly rapid prep.
 
[X] Alchemy, you already have a start on it of a sort thanks to the unwilling donations of Rhys and the Fomori
[X] Enchantment, as skilled as you may be in mundane crafting you will eventually strike the limits of what matter alone can provide so why not learn the weaving of spirit into substance?
 
Even if ridiculous exalted success rates won't help with it (we have what, 22 dice (Int+Occult X 2 + WHWH + stunt) with stunt? At -4 difficulty (CCC + BSM). With 1s not substracting successes because Occult is favored), 1 day expiration rate is not little. It's essentially fresh food delivery expiration rate.

Each success at Alchemy above the minimum one required to make the basic item can be split between making an additional dose, or making one of those doses last an extra day.

If we roll, say sixteen successes, we could make four doses that each last four days.

Given these ratios, we really want to make things at the x10 speed multiplier rather than the x5 multiplier, which is why I ant to learn the Wicked City's techno-sorcery. We'd need one of their electric devils to teach us though.
 
[X] Shadowcasting, you already have an affinity for shadows, drawn as it might be from a fell place, being able to invoke the dark more readily would be of use in battle and out of it
 
[X] Alchemy, you already have a start on it of a sort thanks to the unwilling donations of Rhys and the Fomori
[X] Enchantment, as skilled as you may be in mundane crafting you will eventually strike the limits of what matter alone can provide so why not learn the weaving of spirit into substance?
 
Approval voting:

[X] Alchemy, you already have a start on it of a sort thanks to the unwilling donations of Rhys and the Fomori
[X] Shadowcasting, you already have an affinity for shadows, drawn as it might be from a fell place, being able to invoke the dark more readily would be of use in battle and out of it
 
[X] Healing, one of the most demanding and complex fields of magic as well as one in which Bob has limited experience, but if you can master this it might be a boon beyond price in battle alongside allies less tough than yourself
 
Harry is simulated as a Mage, which is a different splat than Sorcerers.

Long story short, Sorcerers are more limited, less versatile, less powerful Mages. Sorcerers are minor splat, Mages are major splat. Terrestrial vs Celestial. Less short version...
Bulletpoints + why we are even learning sorcery if it is so weak;

1) As opposed to Paths that offer somewhat broad spectrums of effects, Mages have Spheres, that cover incredibly broad spectrum of effects. One sphere is easily worth 2-3 paths, very roughly speaking.
2) Within these nine spheres, Mage spells are comprehensively more powerful through both difference in raw potency and intentional lack of clear limits.
2a) Where sorcerers need Rituals to mix effects from different paths - sometimes even one of the two fairly specific merits, per every specific combination/multi-path spells - Mages can combine anything and everything in their Spheres, and they could do it on the fly. Scry and Die is difficult for Sorcerers, easy for Mages.
2b) Mage crafting system, Wondercrafting, is very strong. Breadth of effects possible scales with available spheres, but final numerical limits are vague and often intentionally undefined. Time Machines are possible. Permanent broad alterations of physics is possible. Permanent attribute enhancement is possible. War machines that make much meme'ed military heavy tank statblook look like a fluffy kitten are possible. Anything is possible, the sky is the limit.

Broadly, Mages make Sorcerers look very sad, in comparison. Incredibly sad. It takes several times more XP for sorcerer to achieve the same general potency as a Mage. It is easily Terrestrial Vs Celestial situation.

For Molly specifically, though there is a big, big, beeeeeeeeg but.

Infernals buy sorceries at a great discount by default, DP allows us to discount paths further, and dice-pools that define potency of Sorcerous spells interact with Exalted Excellencies, difficulty adjusters and Soul-Rendering Practice/[theoretical homebrew equivalent] in ways both beautiful and terrible. Finally, Infernal Charmset has some intentional thematic holes in it that are moderately hard to cover even with homebrew. Healing others is much harder with Infernal charmset, for example.

This makes stuff that is overwise broadly terrestrial-tier to be relevant to our interests. Infernals supercharge otherwise weak system by orders of magnitude.
Yeah, but he can clearly teach some linear sorcery stuff or he wouldn't be a tutor option. Bob is a lot of it, but presumably he isn't doing everything.

If he can assist in the instruction of linear alchemy via the mage sphere equivalent I don't see why that wouldn't translate to fortune as well.
 
[X] Healing, one of the most demanding and complex fields of magic as well as one in which Bob has limited experience, but if you can master this it might be a boon beyond price in battle alongside allies less tough than yourself

Basically the only thing we can't do with charms.
 
Yeah, but he can clearly teach some linear sorcery stuff or he wouldn't be a tutor option. Bob is a lot of it, but presumably he isn't doing everything.

If he can assist in the instruction of linear alchemy via the mage sphere equivalent I don't see why that wouldn't translate to fortune as well.

He can, we see that with Kim Delaney in Fool Moon, though he did not teach her as much as she needed to be taught obviously and then regretted the fact.
 
Votes as they stand.
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Dec 7, 2022 at 10:28 PM, finished with 54 posts and 23 votes.

  • [X] Alchemy, you already have a start on it of a sort thanks to the unwilling donations of Rhys and the Fomori
    [X] Enchantment, as skilled as you may be in mundane crafting you will eventually strike the limits of what matter alone can provide so why not learn the weaving of spirit into substance?
    [X] Healing, one of the most demanding and complex fields of magic as well as one in which Bob has limited experience, but if you can master this it might be a boon beyond price in battle alongside allies less tough than yourself
    [X] Shadowcasting, you already have an affinity for shadows, drawn as it might be from a fell place, being able to invoke the dark more readily would be of use in battle and out of it
    [X] Summoning, warding and binding, selling this one to Harry will probably be the hardest...but if you can though. You remember all too well the fear and awe saw reflected in the gaze of the Pathfinder 'nurse' and of vampires subtle and overt, a useful thing in negotiating even with dark spirits more powerful than your electronic friends (Requires additional Persuasion rolls)


Also rereading the last post, Molly is doing a pretty good job at tempting Harry. Maybe we should leave it toLash?

Gained
  • Materials for Alchemy Laboratory ● ; Also provides a 50% XP discount in buying Alchemy ●●●●
  • Stash Sufficient to upgrade the Dragon's Nest in Chicago to Dragon's Nest ● ; Must be recovered as part of a later action to use.
Also, this needs to be added to the char sheet and what does 50% discount mean? We need 9xp for Alchemy 4 so that 4 or 5 xp?

Or does it also apply to Alchemy 1 to 3?
 
Also, this needs to be added to the char sheet and what does 50% discount mean? We need 9xp for Alchemy 4 so that 4 or 5 xp?

Or does it also apply to Alchemy 1 to 3?
It doesn't apply to Alchemy 1 to 3. Apparently we need to know the basics before we can learn anything from it.
 
COMMENTARY
-I'd like to draw especial attention to Molly's badass boast here.
The firehose of enlightenment?" There is no way not to laugh at the mental image. "I know some things that are probably dangerous to know as well. Like that thing in Cleveland. I could probably summon one of those if I sat down enough and dredged up the right name. I know the names of a thousand accursed shen, the spirit-folk of the Middle Kingdom and beyond, I know the true names of the Yama Kings, enough to conjure by at least, I know how to tap the blood of the world-dragon that flows through its many veins for power. I have seen with dreaming eyes what dwells beneath the sea where the light of sun and moon does not reach and I know the dark secrets buried under the roots of mountains, never meant to be woken."
:chef's kiss:This was very well done.
Kudos.

-It strikes me that Lash is probably quite aware by now of Molly's crush on Dresden.
I wonder how all this is striking her.
Popcorn, maybe.

-Definitely a very good roll by Harry there not to react outwardly when Molly started doing the Superman right there in the sitting room.

-No real problem with his balking at Hellfire; it wasnt one of our immediate priorities anyway.
To his mind, its probably more about keeping firearms away from impulsive teenagers, with a side order of remembering his burning DuMorne's shit to ash.

Harry will change his mind about that when Molly demonstrates Sandstrike Blast, Mind Hand Manipulation or the weapon charm and he figures that Hellfire is less destructive than some of Molly's options.
Alternatively, Molly will find another teacher for it, whether mortal, fae or other spirit.

-Even if Bob cant teach Shapeshifting? The Alphas certainly can.
Their Paradigm is Lycantrophy, but nothing says Molly has to use it the way they do.

"What do you want to learn?"
Actually, what we need to learn is Summoning, Warding and Binding.
Because of all the options, this is the option that comes with the most Lore. If you're going to, say, learn how to bind the ErlKing, it comes with learning who the Erl King is, the myths associated with him, his allegiances et cetera.

But with Dresden balking at it, its wiser to pick an alternative, and come back to it later.
Same principle with managing Charity.

Especially as Molly is still only at Empathy 3, and this is one of the subjects where we're most likely to hit one of Dresden's triggers and be rolling against a double digit dice pool. It was a botched attempt at Binding a loup garou that got Kim Delaney killed in Fool Moon, after all, and her death still affects Dresden today.

With Summoning off the table for the moment, and Fortune not being on the initial list, it isnt hugely different which other option we take; I can see uses for all of them besides Oneiromancy. They all serve the important function of easing Dresden into allowing Molly learn from Bob, while giving Molly time to improve her Empathy dice pool.

I'd go either Alchemy or Enchanting.

@DragonParadox
QUESTION
-Is the Sight a Merit or something else?
I remember you mentioning it could be learned as a thing apart from our charms, but Im not sure if you changed your mind about that.

- In this setting, Odin allegedly trained the Merlin, Elaine was trained in part by Summer, and we know Molly got training from Lea when Dresden was dead. Well, Lydia has an old death god in her head.

We know that Lydia's dad has some magical lore in his library, enough for Lydia to work a ritual.
Is he a suitable magic tutor for her? And if so, what Paths? Chronomancy? Shapeshifting? Summoning?
Can she even learn magic?
 
-No real problem with his balking at Hellfire; it wasnt one of our immediate priorities anyway.
To his mind, its probably more about keeping firearms away from impulsive teenagers, with a side order of remembering his burning DuMorne's shit to ash.
Also we already have more kill then we actually need at the moment. Our nucleal fire arm extender would likely even hurt Mab (assuming it hit her). There just isn't much that can soak that much aggravated damage without using a perfect.
 
Also we already have more kill then we actually need at the moment. Our nucleal fire arm extender would likely even hurt Mab (assuming it hit her). There just isn't much that can soak that much aggravated damage without using a perfect.
Still plenty that can dodge or block it though.

And almost every supernatural in WoD has some mean of tanking it too, like Vampire's Fortitude discipline.

Keep in mind most aggravted damage in the game is just good old fire, with the second being specific weaknesses like silver for Werewolves (which they can't soak, but easily block with armor and defensive maneuvers).
 
-It strikes me that Lash is probably quite aware by now of Molly's crush on Dresden.
I wonder how all this is striking her.
Popcorn, maybe.
I doubt that. Honestly, after witnessing the invocation of Perfected Principle of Consumption, I suspect that Lash might be gibbering in terror at the thought of Molly in general and Molly interacting with Dresden in particular. Because Lash knows of our crown, and if anyone can understand what a Neverborn is, it's likely an angel, fallen or not. Now, this might be under the same infolock as the information on what Molly is, but Lash can probably reason out the implications even without knowing details.
 
@DragonParadox
QUESTION
-Is the Sight a Merit or something else?
I remember you mentioning it could be learned as a thing apart from our charms, but Im not sure if you changed your mind about that.

- In this setting, Odin allegedly trained the Merlin, Elaine was trained in part by Summer, and we know Molly got training from Lea when Dresden was dead. Well, Lydia has an old death god in her head.

We know that Lydia's dad has some magical lore in his library, enough for Lydia to work a ritual.
Is he a suitable magic tutor for her? And if so, what Paths? Chronomancy? Shapeshifting? Summoning?
Can she even learn magic?
  1. The Sight is very all or nothing so yes, it would be modeled as a merit rather than something with dots like a background or a path
  2. You guys would have to ask Lydia IC what her father than teach her, that said in principle Molly does think the link should allow teaching yes
 
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