Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

[uju32]

COMMENTARY

Cybernetic Infiltration Report Alpha

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-Cyberdevils have a 5 dice pool. Not great, not terrible.
In a teamwork scenario where Molly was providing command and control or support, which would amount to an additional 4 dice from Intelligence and 2 dice from a stunt, leading to an 11 dice pool. Not shabby.

-Cybersecurity practices at this level remain a little slapdash if they are reusing passwords
-Useful number of secondary specialists to followup with; Richards probably came out of academia, which means there's a public data trail to look at
-Psych welfare aid? Compromise? Is this just cyberdevil misinterpreting human shock respomse? Flag Castle for possible followup regardless

-The mention of zombies and a kill on sight suggests someone has had Bad Experiences with necromancers and necromancy. Which probably reduces the likelihood that they have institutional tolerance for doing a fucky wucky with pet necromancers or Black Court vampires

-This entire thing reads like someone gave them a primer, dumbed down for junior field agents and edited to minimize the chances of too mucn field autonomy. The repetition of instructions to refer to Central suggests there are more comprehensive / knowledgeable people higher in their hierarchy.

-The mention of animal spirits in the southwest is very suggestive, as is the implication of previous and ongoing contacts.
Im going to be very amused if Daedalus' sponsor is a Native American entity of some sort.

-Notable omission is anything resembling a White Court vampire.
Which could either mean ignorance, or restricted access to information for junior agents, or Whampire influence way up in that chain of command/evidence

-Lawmaker Collaborator. Not associate, or contact.
Interesting choice of words, and one that lends a certain insight to the Daedalan institutional culture.

-With the Feds apparently finding a reason to take ownership of this case, Chicago SI get to avoid any political fallout from it not getting solved.

 

[Azais]

Yeah, which would be one place where the balancing factors come in. Whether the US or whoever can 1v1 irl the red court or whatever is immaterial outside of IC jingo because it won't be happening in isolation.

Various supernatural powers would struggle with each other for influence, and more than one will likely make progress.

I just don't think the mortals will be helpless observers to this conflict. They have plenty of tools that make them relevant in a fight with a majority of the problems they'll actually have. An expedition into faerie would obviously go belly up, but killing fey in the mortal world isn't a problem.

It's also worth noting that at least one entity in the government already knows and has know for a while. Presumably they'd do something if the masquerade broke, making simply walking up and launching a decapitation strike complicated.

As unfamiliar with magic as the mortals are, it's worth remembering that the supernatural end of things also struggles with what mortals have been up to. As Harry himself noted when it comes to the influence sniper rifles have on the traditional advantages of a wizard.

I think a lot of cocky people on both sides would have unpleasant surprises waiting for them.

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The reason for the situation of not telling mortals is not "mortals are helpless" and never has been, but that everyone knows (including parts of governments in the know, like the Library of Congress in the US) that if governments were forced to recognize the whole situation as it really is, they would be forced to come into conflict and while their defeats are inevitable (and they are when taking into account beings of higher power levels, conceptual effects, the nevenever and any belief to the contrary is just a wish of Humanity Fuck Yes!), would cause catastrophic damage to the planet and human numbers, all while exterminating various species (dangerous and harmless), weakening others (the Selie and Unselie, the White Council, etc) and empowering the worse (I'm sure Nicodemus will be laughing like crazy in the ashes with Nemesis and other beings).

Adding that several species need humanity in some ways (food, source of strength, help in the reproduction of their members etc) we can see that the current situation is the best. And even though we should prepare for when the mask falls I think helping Dedalus is...well, I don't care about them at all, frankly, there may be a lot of good people inside but their methodology is bad, their attitude is bad, only we meet with the bad members and the government already has a very good organization when it comes to the supernatural that even the daughter of the White King with a lot of influence in the government, is afraid if they need to, the Library of Congress.

If we had had interesting or friendly interactions with some of them it might be different but for me, they are irritating at best and an enemy that should be destroyed at worst.

 

[TonedMite]

I was thinking more 'finding an ICBM silo, taking out external communications, mind-whammying everyone in sight, and forcing the people inside to launch before backup can be scrambled.'
The sort of thing where the government can't fight back, because by the time they even realize that something's happened, let alone by the time they can respond to it, it's already over.

(I'm sure Nicodemus will be laughing like crazy in the ashes with Nemesis and other beings).

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I absolutely agree.
Of the two mentioned, I'm not sure which one is scarier. Nicodemus most likely has a better grasp of how it all works, and thus how best to tear it all down, but AFAICT Nemesis can do most anything it wants to, unbound by most of the normal limitations of magic and of its hosts?

 

[uju32]

....... That is one of the worst analogues you could use with the current situation, such as the fact unlike Covid which is extremely subtle being microbes, the supernatural are Not. The continuous mass disappearances, the eating of humans by ghouls, trolls, the murdering of them by various entities are not subtle. It is the sort of actions which would completely reorient decisionmakers completely as it dwarfs the scale of any mass murder done in recent history. It dwarfs the Vietnam War, the Afghanistan War and many other wars in recent memory.

And the numbers are not small

In the US alone, 900,000 people are vanished yearly by the Supernatural according to Dresden in Dead Beats.


"Maybe," he said. "But I don't see how things that hunt and kill human beings could be there among us without our knowing."

"How big was your graduating class in high school?"

Butters blinked. "What?"

"Just answer me."

"Uh, about eight hundred."

"All right," I said. "Last year in the U.S. alone more than nine hundred thousand people were reported missing and not found."

"Are you serious?"

"Yeah," I said. "You can check with the FBI. That's out of about three hundred million, total population. That breaks down to about one person in three hundred and twenty-five vanishing. Every year. It's been almost twenty years since you graduated?

So that would mean that between forty and fifty people in your class are gone. Just gone. No one knows where they are." Butters shifted uncomfortably in his seat. "So?" I arched an eyebrow at him. "So they're missing. Where did they go?"

"Well. They're missing. If they're missing, then nobody knows."

"Exactly," I said.

He didn't say anything back.

I let the silence stretch for a minute, just to make the point. Then I started up again. "Maybe it's a coincidence, but it's almost the same loss ratio experienced by herd animals on the African savannah to large predators."




This is bare minimum 18 million people per generation of humans completely vanishing thanks to the presence of the supernatural. Or in other words to paint the picture, it is the equivalent of 1/4 of babies born in the US yearly dying.

And this is in a first world nation
Globally across the World that specific statistic is going to be far worse.

The Supernatural and Covid are not equivalent and can never be equivalent. It is immensely annoying to equate two very different things with one another when the different characteristics of the threat completely alter the equation. And I will emphasize further the more people trying doing false equations like these.

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1)If it wasnt subtle, there wouldnt be anything like a Masquerade. People would be howling about losses.
For where they arent subtle, look at Mexico and Central America, where the Red Court reign, and can hide their depredations among those of the cartels.

2) This is a story told by a PoV character, and like all characters, they can be wrong IC.
If you read the passage again, you'll note that Dresden is guessing about what happens to the subjects of missing person reports, not speaking from knowledge.

And there are obvious, glaring errors with his entire thesis.

He's lumping all missing persons reports together. Reporting errors, people simply choosing to walk away from their previous lives and cut all contacts, and the victims of human crime(children abducted by family members, murdered women etc) are being lumped together with potential victims of supernatural predators.

And then saying that because the percentages are similar to those for prey animals in the wild, obviously they must be being eaten.

I know this because that 900k figure is a real number.
More than 900k missing persons reports yearly between 1993 and 1998,

Number of missing person files U.S. 2021 | Statista

In 2021, the number of missing person files in the United States decreased when compared to the previous year, with 521,705 cases.

www.statista.com

Note how it subsequently drops 50% afterwards between 1998 and 2020.

 

[BronzeTongue]

I was thinking more 'finding an ICBM silo, taking out external communications, mind-whammying everyone in sight, and forcing the people inside to launch before backup can be scrambled.'
The sort of thing where the government can't fight back, because by the time they even realize that something's happened, let alone by the time they can respond to it, it's already over.

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Yeah, and what I'm saying is the stuff out on place for "what if someone smuggled a strike team in and took a silo" would apply. Not impossible, but a lot of people have put a lot of work into this. If you can think of a scenario, someone has written a hundred page memo on it and dropped a few million on contingencies.

It's not like anyone here can lay out exactly how any of that is set up, but this is the single most paranoid area of security system design on the planet. You'd have an easier time stealing planes and enough mundane bombs to do the same job than you would taking a relatively less deadly nuke.

The reason for the situation of not telling mortals is not "mortals are helpless" and never has been, but that everyone knows (including parts of governments in the know, like the Library of Congress in the US) that if governments were forced to recognize the whole situation as it really is, they would be forced to come into conflict and while their defeats are inevitable (and they are when taking into account beings of higher power levels, conceptual effects, the nevenever and any belief to the contrary is just a wish of Humanity Fuck Yes!),

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I don't really agree. Not because you're wrong in a direct sense, but because you're measuring on the wrong scale. This isn't about if mortals can invade Winter. That's stupid and the answer is obvious.

This is about if they can defend themselves as state entities from the various group inside their borders.

A vast majority of supernatural creatures are far enough down on the totem pole that someone playing the modern technology prep game the way a wizards uses magic could handle them. The singular bit threats are a problem, but this isn't happening in a vacuum.

Drakul could probably do whatever he wanted wherever he wanted if it was just the feds and him, but the rest of the supernatural world is in play and would fight him for their own reasons. If it's WW3 then you can't just focus one side, and if it isn't then multiple factions have reason to screw with any one group that's getting too successful.

Which brings this into the realm of possibility again. It comes down to who adapts faster and who fucks up in a critical way first.

 

[uju32]

I don't want to deliberately breach the masquerade, I just think people are dramatically underestimating the resilience of mortal communities and governments, particularly in the US. Probably because movies and TV take step one as "then they collapsed" to let the rest of the plot happen. It's worth noting that most actual explanations for stuff like that are really stupid.

The US federal government is ridiculously huge, and has absurd amounts of money and power flowing through it. It's not going to just go "guess I'll die" the stooges at the top notwithstanding.

Whether it wins in any objective sense is a different question, but it will act, and for most people it's going to be the most familiar touchstone and strongest material actor available.

I think there will be serious persecution, but that there will also be a lot of us vs. them thinking which becomes more inclusive of fellow mortals the more obvious the supernatural is.

It would get real dark for a while, but I think the bigger factor would be in whether the feds bite of more than they can chew or not.

The supernatural world has its own balancing factors, so it's not like the lords of the outer night can just show up to go to war with the muggles without getting shanked by someone else. As long as they start with cleaning up the many solo predators, or the ones from groups that don't as a policy defend their members from things that happen while hunting, they probably have the strategic depth to stay in the fight.

Not that I'm saying it's infallible, but don't go assuming everyone is an idiot just because the talking heads say so.

If it does fail, it won't be splintering so much as exploding violently. I don't really see a scenario going down where the US gets kicked over without the literal and metaphorical fallout fucking everything up for everyone on at least one continent.

Edit: I'm talking about the US because that's where we are, but in general I think most major powers would weather the storm without total collapse. Things would get really bad in a lot of places, but people aren't going to roll over and die or ignore all prior affiliation and power structures just because new ones were revealed.

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I dont really think I am.
I just happen to think that, absent the intervention of external actors to stabilize things, the immediate shock of the reveal coupled with the impulse of various groups to persecution is going to drive the sort of backlash that will shatter things quite fast.

I might have agreed with you prior to the events of the last epidemic. Now, not so much.

Plus, you run into a situation where any neglected spot with a significant population is now a global threat.
I mean, cool, you go full turbo-oppression in your country, or full press lightness and inclusion, hope and dreams, and by herculean efforts you get everything under control.

Meantime, someone was pulling another Rwandan Genocide in Central Africa or North Korea or Cambodia, just with bonus necromancy. They have a god now.

David Brin once wrote a story along those lines, set during WW2, where the Nazis call up a facsimile of the Norse pantheon via mass sacrifice of the victims of the concentration camps.
Loki Meets Captain America, I think.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

Again get expression, and spend a few years forming a world government.

 

[veekie]

Looking at the reports, definitely formed top down with budget and preset agenda, and only recently.

Their best intel is basically Harry's pamphlets, which plays up the scare factor, so that people don't seek out conditionally safe supernaturals(i.e. Benign fae being dangerous if you start incurring debts and favors, or the various beings that'd be perfectly safe if only you were familiar with certain archaic forms of etiquette). That says a lot about how long they've been operating(i.e. not long at all).

The reframing of everything into 'safe' science words also means disconnection from communities that use magical terminology...which isn't a surprise, considering the rest sounds like they recruited from STEM and military backgrounds.

This isn't a "we have a problem, so we gathered everyone with a clue" organization. This is a "we already know what we want to find out, so go find it." sockpuppet group.

 

[DakkaMania]

It's hard to actually convince people who think of you as a 17-year old with weird powers of anything though.
In a sense we have a much easier time being taken seriously by supernatural beings who can easily tell we are a big deal.

Unless goverment-agents are CoDs for the purpose of Demonic Primacy of Essence maybe?

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Why show who Molly is? Just pose as a friendly spirit and send them E-Mail dossiers. Or leave the question of her identity unanswered.

Creating the Paranet is actually a good way to toss information towards Daedalus. We have Cyberdemons to act as security and help obfuscate the data trail of anyone using it and we can feed general knowledge in and retrieve data (and secrets!) from the users to have a large, informal web of contacts.

This can include info from the Church and WH if they can be asked to share. Like warning of increased activity by this or that group in an area, what to keep an eye on, Best Practices and of course very graphic horror stories about not messing with Bad Things.

And an informal study group and referring talents to WH wizards that are interested in students. Could even do YT videos on basic magic.

 

[zxzx24]

Looking at the reports, definitely formed top down with budget and preset agenda, and only recently.

Their best intel is basically Harry's pamphlets, which plays up the scare factor, so that people don't seek out conditionally safe supernaturals(i.e. Benign fae being dangerous if you start incurring debts and favors, or the various beings that'd be perfectly safe if only you were familiar with certain archaic forms of etiquette). That says a lot about how long they've been operating(i.e. not long at all).

The reframing of everything into 'safe' science words also means disconnection from communities that use magical terminology...which isn't a surprise, considering the rest sounds like they recruited from STEM and military backgrounds.

This isn't a "we have a problem, so we gathered everyone with a clue" organization. This is a "we already know what we want to find out, so go find it." sockpuppet group.

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So finding out who's pulling their strings would probably be helpful.

 

[veekie]

That'd likely take riskier approaches alas.

 

[Alratan]

Hell forget the actual memetic threats that benefit from increased exposure.
I can imagine what happens if someone publishes the Word of Kemmler on the Internet.
Or The Idiots Guide to Necromancy. Or just a set of rituals calling Outsiders.

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The White Council already does this. That's because the way to defang rituals is to widely publicise them so loads of people try to use them and dilute their effectiveness below the level at which they function.

 

[veekie]

The White Council already does this. That's because the way to defang rituals is to widely publicise them so loads of people try to use them and dilute their effectiveness below the level at which they function.

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Note this only works for actual rituals with sponsors that have a fixed budget. Techniques propagate just fine.

 

[DragonParadox]

On Roads Far and Old ​

24st of July 2006 A.D.

You spend most of the journey 'on your damn phone' as the stereotype goes. Granted you are communing with a dark spirit that dwells within its heart of silicate and which you had let loose upon the world wide web, but it's for a good cause honest: spying on some old people to make sure they are safe. OK that doesn't sound much better, but still. As far as Clippy has been able to tell none of the relatives of the people at the home have registered any complaints with the authorities and while there are complaints sent to the official account of Soul's Rest they are all about normal stuff. Though you are far from an expert in this kind of thing some old people complaining that their bed is too near the east side of the building and they get woken up by the local church and others complaining about the quality of the beans and kidney...

Lydia looks at your curiously as you shudder.

"It's nothing, just looking over the menu at the old folks home," you explain. "There are complaints, but it's all about normal stuff and if their relatives are complaining to the staff about things like this that means they are in contact and mostly fine. I'd probably be more worried about it if everyone seemed Stepford-happy."

"If the staff is doing something weird they probably would not do it to everyone," she offers. "I mean you can tell who's interested and who isn't, who comes to visit mom and pop, so you can use the ones with attentive families..." she cuts off as you pass by an old Sycamore and sneezes. "Sorry, allergies. Like I was saying, unless the bad guys have come way to only get people without family support they are better off using the ones with a support structure as camouflage."

Clippy hums in your hand in electronic agreement. She seems to tentatively like Lydia as much as she likes anyone beside yourself.

"Have you looked into the finances?" dad asks from the front seat, sending a warm glow of pride through you, not so much because he recognizes how useful you are, but because he did it so casually.

Alas the news you give him isn't all good. "It's all tangled up, one company that is 75% owned by another company that's 90% owned by another company..."

"Those are what are called shell companies," Lydia cuts in, tacking a swing of Pepsi against the glare of the noonday sun, more than the Ac could cover. "They help dodge liability and depending on where you put them tax burden."

"Isn't tax evasion illegal?" you ask startled.

At this Lydia ducks her head, looking a little sheepish. "Not if you are rich enough. Then it's just good business sense to find the loopholes."

"So if I were to say that the last of those companies Polku Pharmaceuticals is registered in the Cayman Islands...?"

"Tax heaven," Lydia confirms

"Well that's a dead end then," you sigh. "The company is a ghost online, all I know is that they own Half-moon Ohio Limited which owns Soul's Rest."

"Polku... that is a weird one, what language is that?" Lydia asks.

"No, idea, Clippy look for a translation site."

The phone hums for a bit then comes back with an answer from an online dictionary. Apparently it's Finnish and it means 'Pathways'. Looking up Pathway Pharmaceuticals gets you a weird result. There had been a company by that name headquartered in Cleveland Ohio which had been shut down by the Food and Drug Administration in 1953, but you cannot figure out what for because the rather bare bones website doesn't have records online for why it shut down a company more than half a century ago, but the coincidence is surely too great.

What do you suggest the three of you do when you reach Cleaveland?

[] Stake out Soul's Rest

[] Break into Soul's Rest at once

[] Try to find local records of the 1953 shut down of Pathway Pharmaceuticals

[] Trail some of the staff home

[] Write in

OOC: I'm going to give you guys the full sheet for Lydia at the end of the arc, but so far you discovered she has both a bit of finance and investigation as abilities.

 

[DragonParadox]

Rolls
Hacking Soul's Rest
Lydia Hunch
Lydia Finance Advice

 

[Goldfish]

I wonder if Michael's acting chops are up to the task of pretending to be the son of a prospective resident who wishes to tour the place before trying to get a parent setup there?

@DragonParadox, do we know what skills Michael has beyond carpentry and being a superhero?

 

[DragonParadox]

I wonder if Michael's acting chops are up to the task of pretending to be the son of a prospective resident who wishes to tour the place before trying to get a parent setup there?

@DragonParadox, do we know what skills Michael has beyond carpentry and being a superhero?

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You know he is bad at lying, really bad. Molly could read him by the time she was seven on the rare occasions when he actually tried.

 

[BronzeTongue]

We should probably be careful with the stakeout option. Molly's continuous darkhallow aura isn't stealthy; anyone with magical sensitivity nearby will probably see it as something like this:

Spoiler

Do we know if Lydia is as profoundly unsubtle as Molly is?

 

[DragonParadox]

We should probably be careful with the stakeout option. Molly's continuous darkhallow aura isn't stealthy; anyone with magical sensitivity nearby will probably see it as something like this:

Spoiler

Do we know if Lydia is as profoundly unsubtle as Molly is?

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She is probably more subtle, not as powerful or as alien to the magical background.

 

[Goldfish]

You know he is bad at lying, really bad. Molly could read him by the time she was seven on the rare occasions when he actually tried.

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Haha, good to know. Makes sense that he didn't get the sword because of his socials skills.

Considering that it was a local company, if one from quite a long while back, this seems like a good place to start, IMO. It's more likely to have been owned directly by someone rather than through half a dozen shell companies, and a name gives us a lot more to work with. Given how long most supernatural creatures live, 53 years is nothing to them, but it might be enough time for them to consider returning to an area they were previously setup in after enough time has passed for all of the relevant muggles to have died or forgotten about them.

If we're lucky, we might find a good name or two with associated photographs, then we can turn Clippy lose on the internet looking for modern pictures of those individuals.

[X] Try to find local records of the 1953 shut down of Pathway Pharmaceuticals

 

[Yog]

[X] Try to find local records of the 1953 shut down of Pathway Pharmaceuticals
-[X] Call Harry. Ask who the local Warden is. Contact them. After checking that they are not being paid off with Clippy.

 

[Goldfish]

[X] Try to find local records of the 1953 shut down of Pathway Pharmaceuticals
-[X] Call Harry. Ask who the local Warden is. Contact them. After checking that they are not being paid off with Clippy.

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Should we do a drive-by HMP'ing of the facility, too? There are bound to be security cameras in the place, especially if it's fairly upscale. Nursing homes use cameras and alarms not so much to keep people out but to keep them inside and to alert them to when patients with dementia and other cognitive issues wander off.

@DragonParadox, if we used HMP on a security camera that's linked to a larger overall security system, would the Cyber-Devil inhabit that whole system or would it be limited to the camera we targeted?

 

[BronzeTongue]

[X] Try to find local records of the 1953 shut down of Pathway Pharmaceuticals
-[X] Call Harry. Ask who the local Warden is. Contact them. After checking that they are not being paid off with Clippy.

Click to shrink...

Do we want more attention from the council? Shady doesn't even begin to describe us; Micheal's pretty much the only thing stopping us from being a problem by default from the perspective of your average wizard.

Even then it only goes so far, especially if the wizard isn't religious and views the swords with less deference.

We'd almost certainly end up named in a report to the council. I'm not sure we want to deal with that without the buffer of our insider friends.

 

[DragonParadox]

Should we do a drive-by HMP'ing of the facility, too? There are bound to be security cameras in the place, especially if it's fairly upscale. Nursing homes use cameras and alarms not so much to keep people out but to keep them inside and to alert them to when patients with dementia and other cognitive issues wander off.

@DragonParadox, if we used HMP on a security camera that's linked to a larger overall security system, would the Cyber-Devil inhabit that whole system or would it be limited to the camera we targeted?

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It would be limited to the camera. If you want the whole system you need to hit the control room and whatever computers are in there.

 

[BronzeTongue]

We could always try the direct approach and show up in full archfiend swagger asking if they have any souls for sale.

If nothing else we'll almost certainly figure out what sort of supernatural entity is behind this.