Gets called out in canon as well.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
A mortal working for the Reds because they pay well, are blackmailing them, or are merely addicted to their spit, is still a mortal at the end of the day.
Personal opinion: In both exalted and Dresden Files there is a point where biggatons stop and one starts get infinite effects. As in, "I do infinite damage", "this place is infinite in size", etc. In Creation the jump goes at some point above stellar range. You get sizes up to stellar, then you jump immediately to infinite.
In Dresden Files finite sizes and quantities go to galactic sizes.
However, both Primordials and at least White God are absolutely capable of operating on infinite scales.
Uriel is capable of breaking galaxies, but that's meaningless when an exalt can parry his galaxy busting attack with a toothpick. Their combat would not involve biggatons.
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And they are unable to stop the crown at all from getting the information the user's ask?
I think the actual important takeaway from the actul ExWoD book for this debate isn't "2nd Edition Solars can or cannot match 3CD/Primordials/Dresden Archangels in single combat and general potential" but "ExWoD Exalts were purposefully tuned down in order to actually fit into a World of Darkness as a setting."
A lot of people seems to operate as if 2nd Edition rules are in effect, both mechanically and narratively. When in reality we are running in game where all Exaltations are diminished, and Infernals in particular are kind of undertuned compared to Solars.
I'd prefer to return to the "can Molly throw hands with Mab" debate somewhere at the point where she is a 400ish XP established E5 Exalt who is making custom charms, rather than continuously try to fit in the square pegs into round holes. Given this is DP game and XP is pretty plentiful, we might actually reach that point.
A lot of people seems to operate as if 2nd Edition rules are in effect, both mechanically and narratively. When in reality we are running in game where all Exaltations are diminished, and Infernals in particular are kind of undertuned compared to Solars.
I'd prefer to return to the "can Molly throw hands with Mab" debate somewhere at the point where she is a 400ish XP established E5 Exalt who is making custom charms, rather than continuously try to fit in the square pegs into round holes. Given this is DP game and XP is pretty plentiful, we might actually reach that point.
Yes.
The Reds have no trouble employing or coercing mortals.
Remember, Dresdenverse. Everyone can do magic to some extent
Exaltations are wielded by mortals.
And mortal free will is a doctrinal core principle for the White God.
For good or ill.
So they ask.
Its not actually demonstrated that Exalts in this universe can do that.
Nevertheless, you are right they wouldnt need to throw biggatons at an Exalt.
Thus also leading to the expectation that if we ever try to get information on the fallen angels for example, the fallen can prevent the crown from getting the information if they desire to, even if it leads to potential action by the Angel's?
- Location
- washington
I think it would be easier to kill immortals during Halloween. Their notably more fragile then in many ways.
Murder is Meat lets us permanently kill anybody whenever.
- Location
- washington
I said easier as in literally easier.
The White God's rules about free will apply to them too.
And if they try to circumvent it, it attracts corrective action by his agents. Thats why Lasciel manipulating Dresden to commit suicide in Changes had freed Uriel to take counteraction to redress the balance in Ghost Story.
Also, without the White God's backing, and locked into coins, they are much less powerful.
I dont think thats true.
It allows a kill to stick, but it doesnt make them any easier to kill or engage. The Erlking wasnt any easier for Dresden to bind during Halloween of Dead Beat.
We dont know if that works against the major Powers in-setting, who get to resurrect if they somehow get killed outside Halloween.
Defense primacy.
- Location
- Earth
A single bullet killed Maeve on Halloween.
As long as it hits anyway.
A bullet by Maeve, Winter Lady. I would not count on either the bullet or the gun being ordinary.
A better argument would be Aurora, who got stabbed to death, but she was killed by iron at the Stone Table.
- Location
- washington
Artifacts are rare as fuck fairly sure they were ordinary.
- Location
- Earth
Murphy actually. While Maeve shot the Summer Lady, Murphy shot Maeve.
Or they are unable to stop it, and have to ask. If a mundane human encounters Uriel and tries to shank him with a knife, Uriel is not obligated to let the knife penetrate his skin, free will or not. He can tank it without asking the mortal to not try shanking him.
It's far more plausible that our Crown is an absolute effect and can't be blocked.
- Location
- Germany
Speaking of Permakilling, Earthscorpion invented a pretty nice spell for that:
The parts about Gods, even Incarna, having their panoply charms destroyed and not getting a successor should mean in Dresden-terms that we can truly kill a Mantle of any power, not just the person currently wearing it.
It's a bit complicated, and very involved to cast, but very reliable.
The parts about Gods, even Incarna, having their panoply charms destroyed and not getting a successor should mean in Dresden-terms that we can truly kill a Mantle of any power, not just the person currently wearing it.
Fair point. Id have to dig it up and reread.
I dont agree.
This is a shard that got captured and restrained by first forces of the Yomi Kings, and then the Winter Court.
And even absolute defence effects have loopholes where they dont work.
I dont really think its quite that absolute in THIS universe.
Capturing exaltations without hosts is not something unheard of. This was addressed in the story. Exaltation is a weapon, a catalyst of a soul's growth. Without a host it has obpnly one absolute property - being indestructible. Now, if we find evidence that someone like Winter Mother destroyed one, I'll revise my opinion. But so far we have evidence that our Crown could unearth even White God's secrets, and were told that even completely unrestrained by rules fallen's attempts to UMI us would fall flat against IPM.
This is;
1) Homebrew
2) Second Edition homebrew
3) Directly references Great Curse, which isn't a thing anymore
This isn't good.
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- Location
- Germany
Exaltations have been captured before, even in Exalted canon, that does not mean all their Charms are non-absolute.
It's much easier to keep a non-bonded Exaltation captive than an Exalted trying to escape anyway.
To quote a Solar Charm from the book:
The Exalted can do things that are impossible for a lone Exaltation.
- Location
- Germany
I know.
It's just a neat spell I wanted to share with the class.
Earthscorpion and Revlid have a lot of interesting homebrew, particularly for Infernals.
I admit it's not quite relevant for now.
That does not equate to them being at all equal to it in power. Recall that as you specified that the exaltation's are tool which are designed to be wielded by a mortal. Its only innate quality is that it is perfectly indestructible to any attempts to diminish or destroyed it. With direction it is capable of feats that even now that are beyond the powers that exist on this World.
Also the Chapter which contains Maeve's death is Chapter 52 of Cold Days according to the WIki. Hope that helps.
Yeah, sorry, my response was too harsh.
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