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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Votes as they stand.
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Jul 5, 2022 at 3:24 AM, finished with 122 posts and 21 votes.
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Valkhir said:
[X] To Harry: How do you learn magic?


I feel like there is a situation in which an Exaltation actually makes you better at Dresden magic too.

Since iirc, any human can do magic (at minimum stuff like drawing and will infusing a circle), wizards are merely astronomically more talented.

This leads me to believe its possible Magic isn't the Sorcery but the Thaumaturgy equivalent.

And just like how Thaum is part of the exploitation of the base nature of reality and available to all, so may this. Even more with better Occult and Excellency.

Of course this is just a possibility. To illustrate that it is very much possible imo.
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To my understanding of Dresden Files.
Basically anyone can make use of the magic system. It works similarly for everyone. However, most supernatural beings' natures are intrinsically woven into their magic, which gives them a large advantage along with a limitation.

If its in line with their concept, in essence, its far easier for said supernaturals to wield magic. Even Thomas' undeveloped magical ability is enough to rip a hole into the Nevernever using his Hunger...in places compatible with Lust alone. Conversely, Even the greatest of Winter's power with all the knowledge in the world, is barely any use for healing, it can numb pain, and perservere despite weakness, but it just can't heal for shit.

Most humans don't have enough magical power to do anything with it beyond empowering circles(and even then their blood is basically a sacrifice paying for the cost).
Most supernaturals don't find any point in developing skill with their magic, they can develop strength, they can enhance their finesse, or they can make use of techniques to better wield it tactically, but it will not do anything outside their natures.

Wizards, are special because they have magical power, but no inherent nature. As a result, their magic can do anything, provided they find the strength to fuel it, and they know the method to make it happen. As beings with complete Free Will, they can bypass many of the obstacles that supernatural beings face.
A wizard that becomes a free-willed supernatural creature later would likely find many of their abilities constrained or infiltrated by their new nature, but they ccan still do most of the things they used to.

So how does this apply to Exalts?

Well, ritual magic and thaumaturgy works. They're human enough.
They can be Sorcerors, they have the magical oomph.
They can open the Outer Gates and summon across realms, as they have Free Will.

But I don't think they can be Wizards, because they have a Nature.
All their magic is flavored with it.

For an Infernal I suspect how DF magic would manifest would probably be just a variation on Mind Hand Manipulation and its outriggers. Can do astonishingly complex(for wizards) effects, but limited to those manifestations.
 
veekie said:
So how does this apply to Exalts?
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You are right as going by 2E rules....

This cluster of Charms each grant the shallowest fragments of supernal wisdom, enough to learn and cast spells of the Emerald Circle. Subsequent purchases of the same version unlock higher circles. Spells require the usual costs and spell-shaping actions when cast this way. Each variation of this Charm belongs to one of the Yozis and grants a particular benefit that may be invoked whenever that Charm is used to cast a spell. In addition to these powers, each variant imposes the themes and imagery of the appropriate Yozi upon every spell cast using that initiation. For example, tarnished brass blades with barbed stingers replace obsidian butterflies for the Malfean spell that comes out Death of Brass Wasps. This substitution of imagery never materially alters the effects of a spell except in the slightest of ways and is not optional. The player may select the modified imagery with Storyteller approval.

Spells with any Holy effects represent innovations of Creation's Exalted never dreamed by the Primordials and whose nature is antithetical to Yozi Essence. Such magic can't be learned. Primordial sorcery does not bind demons through the oaths of the vanquished Yozis, but rather in fulfillment of Cecelyne's cruel law. Infernal sorcerers cannot learn conventional demon summoning spells, but they may learn variations that non-Yozi-bound sorcerers cannot hope to understand.

Malfeas: Spells that inflict damage as their primary effect such as Death of Obsidian Butterflies or Total Annihilation resonate with the hate of the Demon City, increasing their base damage by half again before attack successes factor in. For example, Death of Brass Wasps inflicts 12L rather than 8L. Spells that inflict damage over time may be enhanced this way, but only the first instance of damage inflicted against a particular victim gets the boost. Further damage to the same target does not increase, though those the spell has yet to damage are fair game. The Sorcerous Enlightenment of Malfeas cannot cast spells that bring peace or physical calm (however confused and mad). Examples include Mists of Eventide, Paralyzing Contradiction, The Battle's End, Wheel of the Turning Heavens and Winds of Confusion. The only calm that may result from his spells is the stillness that descends upon battlefields in the wake of the devastation he unleashes.
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So a Good rule of thumb would be that our DS Magic would be similarly influenced.
 
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Arc 0 Post 11: Sins of the Past
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    • Sins of the Past ​

    5th of July 2006 A.D.

    "How do wizards learn magic?" you blurt out, looking at Harry. "Properly I mean not..." your words trail off awkwardly since you are not sure what everyone knows.

    Harry shuffles in place and turns his head a little, as though he both wants and does not want to see how your mother is taking this. You know that feeling and then he sort of stretches out his gloved left hand a little, the smallest wince of pain flashing behind his eyes.

    "Usum is there any kind of like... healing spell I could get, that works on other people?" you ask.

    "There are ways for you to soothe the ailments of those who accept your rightful rule my princess, truly your mercy knows no bounds to think of such things so soon after coming into your power."

    You wince at the thought of being a liege lady like that and part of you, the part that is Molly the already screw-up seventeen year old wants to deny it off hand, but you remember the deal and the slow hum of gathering beyond the door of the movie theater reminds you that you are more than just that, that you chose to be more than that. Thus you listen closely indeed when Harry Dresden, the only wizard in the Chicago phone book, you checked, explains how wizards are made.

    "Wizards, proper wizards, those with the talent that goes beyond just one thing, like changing their shapes or floating spoons or a touch of the sight are trained by other wizards, an apprenticeship. That's not to say all wizards can do all things equally, you might have noticed I am a bit better with fire than I am with say water..."

    You giggle at the sheepishness, he had been throwing around fire at those spiders like it was candy at Halloween, the bad kind like candy corn or sweet tarts that you want to get rid of so you don't have to eat them later or feel guilty for throwing them out.

    "But like in principle a proper wizard a least knows the theory for what you can do and... what you shouldn't do."

    The floor isn't any cleaner here than it was in the back room. "That was one of the things the Scarecrow told me... or showed me maybe, it's all blurry, but it wanted me to hurt more and like truth cuts deeper than lies or something philosophical like that." Your attempt at levity lands like a lead balloon.

    He stops and you wonder why... enough to drag your eyes back up the long canvas trench coat and all the way up to his face. His five o'clock shadow looks like it's from five o'clock three days go and that is probably your fault as well, but there is no anger in his blue-grey eyes just sort of confusion which makes two of you, but isn't really comforting.

    "Rose is going to be alright in a few years...."

    That's... that is the best news you have had all day, you can feel the relieved smile suddenly burst on your face with none of the awkwardness, but for some reason Harry does not take it well, his expression darkens to something a lot more judgey.

    "Nelson won't though," he says still watching you carefully.

    "Likely because you were more invested in retribution for his transgression than instruction on how to avoid repeating it in his case," Usum notes lightly, coiled at the root of your mind.

    What do you do?

    [] Pretend to care as much about hurting Nelson as you do Rosie (Manipulation+Subterfuge)
    -[] Stunt: Optional
    -[] Use Excellency

    [] Be honest about your feelings even if they are not flattering

    [] Write in

    OOC: A short one this time because this is an important moment for both Molly and her relationship with some of he people around her.
     
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    • Artemis1992 said:
    What did we do to Nelson and why did he deserve our most rightous judgement?
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    He impregnated our best friend, gave her drugs whilst knowing she's bearing his child, and doesn't seem want to want to expend any modicum of responsibility on the matter.

    Edit: My inner-Defiler wants me to lie and say that we are oh so sorry when in actually we couldn't bother to spare a thought about whatever it is we've done to him.
     
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    Jack vile Ripper said:
    He impregnated our best friend, gave her drugs whilst knowing she's bearing his child, and doesn't seem want to want to expend any modicum of responsibility on the matter.
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    That and as for what you did: used mind magic to invoke terror every time they thought of using, but since Nelson had pissed off Molly more... well he got the worst of it, mind shattered by paranoia and all. Since she did not know what she was doing and the magic went off her feelings, the demon helpfully pointed out those feelings so she cannot lie to herself as she did to an extent in canon when she yelled 'I did not hurt them' at Harry.
     
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    Well, that's a bit harsh, but not completly outside the range of acceptable measures.

    Putting the fear of Us in people is a most important part of our toolkit after all.
     
    Is there any reason why we would pretend to feel remorse rather than just being plain about our feelings that Nelson got what was coming to him? One thing I could see is admitting that using Magic to break his mind was probably a step too far, intentional or otherwise. Not doing so might be a bit worrying I think.
     
    Jack vile Ripper said:
    We have a Charm from Kakuri: "False Springs Beckon" that allows us to suspend all form of harms that others has suffered—the caveat, being that they must subjugate themselves to us.
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    That would help with Nelson and Rosie as well...

    Oh dear sweat Malfeas I just had a thought... that would work for Lawbreakers, the damage warlocks do to themselves is explicitly the same that the victims of mind warping suffer. You could make an army of sane warlocks.

    The White Council is going to love you. /s :V
     
    DragonParadox said:
    That would help with Nelson and Rosie as well...

    Oh dear sweat Malfeas I just had a thought... that would work for Lawbreakers, the damage warlocks do to themselves is explicitly the same that the victims of mind warping suffer. You could make an army of sane warlocks.

    The White Council is going to love you. :V
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    An army of utterly loyal subjects that wants to do nothing more than to please us or die for our approval? That sounds pretty rad to me!
     
    jakjjjj said:
    Is there any reason why we would pretend to feel remorse rather than just being plain about our feelings that Nelson got what was coming to him? One thing I could see is admitting that using Magic to break his mind was probably a step too far, intentional or otherwise. Not doing so might be a bit worrying I think.
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    Just to be clear Molly does feel guilty for what she did to him, just not as guilty as with Rosie.
     
    I guess here we are at another split between Exalted and the local practitioners.

    For Exalted using mind-affected magic to punishor help people is perfectly normal, they have the ability to do it with no unintended side-effects and they are generally considered to have the right to do it too.

    For Dresdeners it's breaking their laws though and has both legal and very directly corrupting/damaging consequences.
     
    Artemis1992 said:
    I guess here we are at another split between Exalted and the local practitioners.

    For Exalted using mind-affected magic to punishor help people is perfectly normal, they have the ability to do it with no unintended side-effects and they are generally considered to have the right to do it too.

    For Dresdeners it's breaking their laws though and has both legal and very directly corrupting/damaging consequences.
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    Keep in mind that the rules for what mind magic does to the one casting that are strictly for mortals, something like a fey (many of which were once mortal) can use magic to twist the minds of others fine.
     
    Dresden Verse is the sort that would look upon a Solar with Appearance 5 and Presence Charm 'Eternal Empress of Love Attitude' and would've condemned the Solar as some world-class criminal huh?

    Besides, the Laws of Magic are only applicable to mortals wizards. Not Divinity, of which the Exalted most surely are.
     
    Yeah. That guy was scum and lets not start off our relation with Harry with a lie. Lets be honest here, even if it is not flattering.

    [X] Be honest about your feelings even if they are not flattering
     
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    [X] Be honest about your feelings even if they are not flattering

    Honestly, if we could take it back we propably would.
    Excellency-fuelled regular Intimidation would be enough to leave a lasting impression without breaking his mind.
     
    @DragonParadox Could we do a write in? Something like this?

    [] Write in: Be honest about your feelings even if they are not flattering, but also accept responsibility. You WILL make things right and may just have the power to do so. This was your mistake and yours to make good on, no matter what you may think of him.
     
    Yeah, fuck Nelson, and not in the fun way.

    [X] Be honest about your feelings even if they are not flattering
    Yzarc said:
    @DragonParadox Could we do a write in? Something like this?

    [] Write in: Be honest about your feelings even if they are not flattering, but also accept responsibility. You WILL make things right and may just have the power to do so. This was your mistake and yours to make good on, no matter what you may think of him.
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    Seems a bit early to make those sorts of declarations, IMO. Let's not get ahead of ourselves or end up obligated to help the shitburger before we're good and ready to actually do it.
     
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