Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

1) A big bang windfall looks like an unlikely, but very real event that happens to hundreds of American lottery winners every year.
Lots of smaller cash flows starts to fit the profile of money laundering, and draws attention.

Molly is 17 years old, 18 in 3 months, and hasnt finished high school.
She has no current skills that would legally translate to millions of dollars; she isnt Hannah Montana or a STEM wunderkind that coded Skype in their bedroom and sold it to Microsoft.

Melee 5 is best in the world, but at best it would get her Olympic gold in fencing.
You're going to be hard pressed to find any vaguely plausible way she has lots of smaller cash flows that total up to tens of millions of dollars in a couple months and doesnt peg someone's bullshit meter hard.

2) Structuring financial transactions in an attempt to avoid Federal scrutiny is an actual Federal crime in the US.
www.investopedia.com

What Is a Smurf and How Does Smurfing Work?

A smurf is a colloquial term for a money launderer who seeks to evade scrutiny from government agencies by breaking up large transactions.
We would be risking finessing our way into actual financial crimes that we can actually be charged with. Not that we cant beat them in court, but it would require an investment of time and effort and charms we would otherwise not have to make.



3)I strongly disagree about prereqs for winning a lottery. All you need is a winning lottery ticket and you use that to get a big law firm on contingency. If we wait till we have the financial infrastructure to move large amounts of money, that means we have large amounts of money and we would not need the lottery any longer.

We need a lottery win, or a large gold find, or a large gem find, as a Big Bang move to take us from Resources 0 to Resources 4ish or better.

There are no other legalish ways I can think of for a soon to be 18 year old high school junior/senior to become a multimillionaire in the next three months; we arent inheriting a massive fortune, and everything else that has been suggested, like suddenly becoming a genius daytrader on the stock market, is frankly a lot more ridiculous and eyecatching than suddenly winning the lottery.

Or a lot more illegal, like going Breaking Bad and cooking high grade drugs.



4) Lara Raith de facto runs the White Court. She lives in Chicago, at the Raith family estate.

Her half-brother (and Harry's half-brother)Thomas Raith was on the squad of people who rescued us. I dont think its an actual concern that someone as smart as Lara is going to intentionally go anywhere near enthralling the daughter of a Knight of the Cross and known associate of Harry "Oops I did It Again" Dresden, even before we developed occult superpowers.

Last time that happened, the offending party's estate caught fire, with them inside it.

Besides, Thomas Raith would be my second choice for selling gold safely after Harry Dresden himself.
He's a forty something year old from a rich family, he knows at least the basics of rich family finance, and he wont gouge us.
Plus, we owe him enough that a reasonable commission off a financial transaction is not actually a hardship.



5)Short of a massive organization effort like you see with federal Witness Protection, anonymity is designed to fend off nuisances and harassment, and give you a modicum of protection against scrubs. Its not an iron curtain.

The local IRS office know who is rich. Your financial managers know. Your law firm knows.
The CPA who handles your taxes knows. Your bank branch, and the national dept detailed to handle accounts of high net worth individuals know. Whoever issues your credit card account knows.

The real estate agent selling you a house and checking your credit rating, the car agent selling you a new truck; they all know.
Hell, your barista might be able to tell depending on your credit card.

This stuff is designed to fend off the riff raff.
Its not designed to stop people with connections willing to invest the effort from figuring out who's actually balling.
Worrying about it is a futile endeavor.




You significantly underestimate the world appetite for precious metals, I think. And our ability to move stuff legally.
Faking a find of Confederate gold, or a stash of mined gold that was buried and forgotten, is not all that difficult if you have Tool Constructs and the ability to check what such a find would look like online. For example:

Just pay your taxes on it and the IRS wont care.
But there will definitely be chancers trying to claim it belongs to them or a relative, because people are like that.
Thats why lawyers exist.

Beside, once we have a solid financial base, the major use of gold is for off the books transactions.
Both with supernatural side players, and with grey market humans for things that we might want or need thats not easily accessible on the open market.

And in that case, having enough jewel-quality diamonds for the Resources 5 expense of building a Rating 5 magic robot?
Or enough free gold to bribe some supernaturals for crafting reagents?
Rather useful.
1) It would obviously be stupid to connect all of them to Molly's identity directly. The point would be that they're run by proxy, and largely used for things we don't want or need Molly's name stamped on.

Gathering bribe money, renting office space, purchasing materials, paying contractors, that sort of thing.

2) So is killing vampires, since the law doesn't acknowledge they aren't humans, and half a dozen other things we're considering doing.

We just got done wiretapping the FBI, and almost voted to call and try to intimidate them with a record of their own phone calls.

Done right we wouldn't need to defend ourselves on this, certainly no more so than we already would if someone followed us around and recorded what we're doing anyway.


3) The whole point of any of this would be to avoid being known as a teenage multimillionaire.

On the specifics; we don't own any land out where coins or gold deposits can be found and legally claimed by Molly. One big multimillion dollar find is going to have some people sniffing for their cut, so we'd need a hell of a story. Smaller ones will similarly eventually raise questions.


4) You say this like their internal politics hasn't repeatedly resulted in them playing games that aren't good for the current leadership of the court. For that matter, that the reluctance to mess with Harry will protect us when to the supernatural community at large we basically didn't exist and aren't known to be connected to him.

Micheal might be a shield from attempts, but he's not exactly a public figure to these sort of people.

5) The problem is that unless you have infrastructure and influence to move money around having a lot of it sitting in an account makes you a target. Especially in an a world like the DF. Which is why I'd prefer if it isn't in Molly's name for a large portion of the money, just something we control by proxy.
 
1) It would obviously be stupid to connect all of them to Molly's identity directly. The point would be that they're run by proxy, and largely used for things we don't want or need Molly's name stamped on.

Gathering bribe money, renting office space, purchasing materials, paying contractors, that sort of thing.

2) So is killing vampires, since the law doesn't acknowledge they aren't humans, and half a dozen other things we're considering doing.

We just got done wiretapping the FBI, and almost voted to call and try to intimidate them with a record of their own phone calls.

Done right we wouldn't need to defend ourselves on this, certainly no more so than we already would if someone followed us around and recorded what we're doing anyway.


3) The whole point of any of this would be to avoid being known as a teenage multimillionaire.

On the specifics; we don't own any land out where coins or gold deposits can be found and legally claimed by Molly. One big multimillion dollar find is going to have some people sniffing for their cut, so we'd need a hell of a story. Smaller ones will similarly eventually raise questions.


4) You say this like their internal politics hasn't repeatedly resulted in them playing games that aren't good for the current leadership of the court. For that matter, that the reluctance to mess with Harry will protect us when to the supernatural community at large we basically didn't exist and aren't known to be connected to him.

Micheal might be a shield from attempts, but he's not exactly a public figure to these sort of people.

5) The problem is that unless you have infrastructure and influence to move money around having a lot of it sitting in an account makes you a target. Especially in an a world like the DF. Which is why I'd prefer if it isn't in Molly's name for a large portion of the money, just something we control by proxy.
ehhhh pretty much every faction has rich individuals heck most factions have many rich individuals in them. If we're worried about being a target merely money isn't going to cut it.
 
Winning vote
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Aug 29, 2022 at 4:09 AM, finished with 42 posts and 14 votes.
 
Arc 2 Post 20: Of Cars and Cameras
Of Cars and Cameras

21st of July 2006 A.D.

As you climb the steps out of the laboratory, Clippy's small light throwing odd shadows along the assorted bric a brac you wonder if you sound out various ways to convince Harry to let you back in here. There's all sorts of things Bob could teach you and he certainly seems willing to do so, not to mention all the help you could give him. You're pretty sure a demon in that model of Chicago to make the wires actually carry power and a few of the streetlights turn on would make it a far more potent focus.

"Hey there Mister," you say distracted. Harry's enormous cat graciously accepts a pat on the head as his royal due.

"You take care here Mouse, the charge on Burny should be good foor or five days, I'm going to have to figure some way to get a charging station in here or in Harry's car." Having checked you found that the apartment fuse box was utterly trashed, not that Harry would notice since the only electrical thing he uses in the landline and that has its own power.

Mouse barks a doggy 'yes' then adds with Burny's help: "You take care as well. Get Harry out. Two noses follow the trail better than one."

As you get into the car another electronic voice echoes, this time from the radio: "Notice of Concern. A man attempted to place something on the vessel's underside, though he fled when the alarm activated."

"Something?" you ask alarmed. "What did he looks like?"

"The vessel does not possess cameras so my senses are limited to rough build and gender, 99.1% certainty male, Caucasian, age range 20-60 years. Speculation, either a tracker or a bomb."

A bomb. Holy Mother of God... Deep breath. Calm down Molly, you are a lot more bomb proof that you look, you tell yourself, though you mentally add external cameras for the Beige Wagon to the list of stuff you need to get.

Wait a second you are still here and the Crown can look at a place as well as a person or object.

"Who just fled at the sound of a car alarm?" you cast the question among the light of a thousand eyes.

Lost 1 Essence

Agent John Jenkins, FBI, the answer comes back, coldly mechanical.

"Clippy check Wright's records for John Jenkins," you say as you start up the Beige Wagon and as you had expected you get a match. Probably a tracker then not a bomb, though you are pretty sure that's really illegal. "Keep an eye on his email to see if Jenkins reports the failure."

When you get home to a cold dinner and an even colder look from mom you make no mention of the incident, something tells you that telling her: 'The FBI tried to track my car' would not be helpful in the plan to keep investigating. It's ten thirty by the time you finally get the bathroom to yourself and well past midnight by the time you feel the cup of your Essence running full. Good thing you don't need that much sleep

Gained 9 Essence, now at 12/12

***​

22st of July 2006 A.D.

For once you sleep is empty of dreams, though maybe because it is so brief with Clippy waking you at five AM, the light of false dawn a pale glimmer over Wrigley Field when you drive by. Another advantage of the hour of course is that you could just leave a sticky note on the fridge and claim it was because you did not want to wake anyone up.

On the drive over you look over the evidence from the warehouse of Harry presumably killing Greene. The first surprise is that it's not that at all. The first frame is 'Harry' slamming Greene's clearly dead body dressed in plain clothes onto an old metal table which had once served as part of the meat industry.

"And so it serves again," Usum offers with macabre humor as the fake Harry starts to take the body apart.

Ah right, demon, it's easy to forget that part. Though even thinking that the sight of blood and dismemberment doesn't trouble you on its own. Sure you feel sad and angry to see this happening to someone but your stomach offers not a moment of discomfort.

"Yours is a power meant to fight in wars beyond human imagination my princess, a poor weapon it would be if the sight of blood and death should trouble you so lightly," the demon at the back of your mind continues.

You nod to yourself, still observing the video and the email it came with. Apparently the reason why the cameras had only started rolling when the body hit the table was because the noise had tripped the silent alarm and that had automatically made the camera start recording. Which begs the question why the alarm had not gone off when 'Harry' had gotten in the warehouse with the body. In fact the running theory by the CPD was that Greene had been shot nearby and then sneaked in since apparently the autopsy on the remains showed .44 Magnum wounds.

No gunshot reports that morning from anywhere in the neighborhood, Clippy reports which makes the prospect even more strange. How far after all could someone have carried Greene's body in broad daylight before getting it into the warehouse? It is almost as if they did not get in there by roads that most people could see.

Unfortunately that is all that Wright's phone and his past messages reveal. You would like to know what the cops know about Greene's last movements. Who had last seen him alive and when?

Maybe I could just ask, you muse. You have Wright's account and it's not like it would be hard to imitate his writing style. Eventually it will come out that his account was hacked into when it comes out he did not send the query, but it's not like they would be able to trace the leak.

Do you send a message in Wright's name asking for more information on the case?

[] Yes, that would give you valuable information fast
-[] Write in what and to whom

[] No, it's not worth the risk to your cover


OOC: Next update will be arriving at Menominee, I wanted to catch you up on what information Molly had as fast as possible so you could use it if you want in the next part.
 
Last edited:
[X] No, it's not worth the risk to your cover

Wire tapping too useful to burn here. Lets wait a bit before revealing this particular ability.
 
So we have FBI agents attempting to deploy illegal trackers. Fairs fair.
Clippy should be able to run an internet and social media sweep for John Jenkins as well as looking for him in Wright's records.

VOTE
[X] No, it's not worth the risk to your cover

We got the crime scene address.
Clippy can look up the public property tax records and figure out who owns the place.
When we get back to Chicago, we can drive by the warehouse and just use Crown of Eyes.

Maintaining access to Wright's phone is currently worth more to us than getting a report a couple hours early.
We have plenty enough to fill our time between now and when we get back to Chi-town.
 
ehhhh pretty much every faction has rich individuals heck most factions have many rich individuals in them. If we're worried about being a target merely money isn't going to cut it.
We aren't a faction, and certainly look a lot more vulnerable than we actually are.

The question isn't can we fight off whoever tries to take a bite, it's the consequences of that sort of exposure.
 
So we have FBI agents attempting to deploy illegal trackers. Fairs fair.
Clippy should be able to run an internet and social media sweep for John Jenkins as well as looking for him in Wright's records.
Honestly, it would have been better if they succeeded. We could have possessed it, and got it to send them wrong data.

Though, to be pedantic - we don't know if it was illegal. They could have had a warrant.
 
We aren't a faction, and certainly look a lot more vulnerable than we actually are.

The question isn't can we fight off whoever tries to take a bite, it's the consequences of that sort of exposure.
I mean the point is that there are plenty out there with said resources who aren't targeted specifically due to that resource. We're going to be targeted eventually due to our actions, due to what we radiate, and due to who we associate with inevitably. Some lottery money publicity is the least of our concern.
 
Honestly, it would have been better if they succeeded. We could have possessed it, and got it to send them wrong data.

Though, to be pedantic - we don't know if it was illegal. They could have had a warrant.
1) Not really. Molly is Technology 0, Computer 0.
She couldnt have technically modified it, and using HMP would have displayed a capability we're deliberately keeping sub rosa.
Not to mention that it would have demonstrated an ability to monitor her car thats sus.

2) They didnt. Have a warrant, I mean.
They would have needed to go before a federal judge and get a warrant on a Friday night, and justify why they wanted to put a tracker on the vehicle of a minor.

Not the sort of thing you do at short notice.
Especially if you're arguing before a Federal judge that you have your perpetrator in hand already, and that he was responsible for both the murder and the disposal of the body.
 
Yeah, it's definitely not worth the risk of letting them know we're tapped into their information pipeline.

[X] No, it's not worth the risk to your cover
 
[X] No, it's not worth the risk to your cover
2) They didnt. Have a warrant, I mean.
They would have needed to go before a federal judge and get a warrant on a Friday, and justify why they wanted to put a tracker on the vehicle of a minor.
If you believe cop shows, some judges will sign just about anything, or there could be some creative description of the truth on the part of the person asking. All it takes is some luck with available judges.
 
I mean the point is that there are plenty out there with said resources who aren't targeted specifically due to that resource. We're going to be targeted eventually due to our actions, due to what we radiate, and due to who we associate with inevitably. Some lottery money publicity is the least of our concern.
You're missing my point. Those people aren't targeted because they aren't worth the trouble. A lone mortal 18 year old, and even a supernatural entity capable of stabbing red vampires to death, can very well be.

It wouldn't surprise me if the various factions of the white court snapped up lottery winners as a matter of habit if the winner is in reach.

We aren't a wizard in good standing, vampire nobility, or a nevernever spirit monarch even if we'll eventually be in that league.

It's also relevant to consider what people know and when. A random white court count isn't going to know we're anything but what Molly was three weeks ago.

Someone comes sniffing around and gets an eyeful of Molly's aura and we're exposed to their faction.
1) Not really. Molly is Technology 0, Computer 0.
She couldnt have technically modified it, and using HMP would have displayed a capability we're deliberately keeping sub rosa.
Not to mention that it would have demonstrated an ability to monitor her car thats sus.

2) They didnt. Have a warrant, I mean.
They would have needed to go before a federal judge and get a warrant on a Friday night, and justify why they wanted to put a tracker on the vehicle of a minor.

Not the sort of thing you do at short notice.
Especially if you're arguing before a Federal judge that you have your perpetrator in hand already, and that he was responsible for both the murder and the disposal of the body.
We do have a dot in technology, but fair point.

You're also probably right about them not having a warrant, but it's worth noting who we're dealing with and when it's happening.

These are national security guys in the early 2000s. If there's anyone who can access legal loopholes to cover themselves when doing stuff like this it's them.

[X] No, it's not worth the risk to your cover
 
[X] No, it's not worth the risk to your cover

I do like having these information on tap.
I guess in hindsight HMP is shaping up to be a good investment.
 
1) Not really. Molly is Technology 0, Computer 0.
She couldnt have technically modified it, and using HMP would have displayed a capability we're deliberately keeping sub rosa.
Not to mention that it would have demonstrated an ability to monitor her car thats sus.
From the FBI perspective, there really shouldn't be a difference between us modifying the tracker "mundane" way and HMP.
 
These are national security guys in the early 2000s. If there's anyone who can access legal loopholes to cover themselves when doing stuff like this it's them.

The FISA Court would nod it through immediately for them, any time of day, any day of the week, any week of the year. They may well not even have to ask, given the breadth of the warrants.
 
[X] No, it's not worth the risk to your cover
If you believe cop shows, some judges will sign just about anything, or some creative description of the truth on the part of the person asking. All it takes is some luck with available judges.
Some state judges yes.
Feds are generally a lot more discriminating about what they put their signature to.
Plus, Friday night.

If you're dragging a Federal judge out of his home as the weekend starts for a warrant, it had better not be some chickenshit like this or he/she will eat you alive.
Or so I hear.
We do have a dot in technology, but fair point.

You're also probably right about them not having a warrant, but it's worth noting who we're dealing with and when it's happening.
These are national security guys in the early 2000s. If there's anyone who can access legal loopholes to cover themselves when doing stuff like this it's them.

[X] No, it's not worth the risk to your cover
Cowboys wouldnt bother with a warrant. They'd just lie. Which is what Im guessing is what happening here.

Remember that is still Friday night.
Dresden was arrested maybe an hour and half ago; we've had time to go see Forthill, then return to the apartment briefly to get Mouse a cellphome. They've had no time to even attempt to file any sort of paperwork.



1) It would obviously be stupid to connect all of them to Molly's identity directly. The point would be that they're run by proxy, and largely used for things we don't want or need Molly's name stamped on.
Gathering bribe money, renting office space, purchasing materials, paying contractors, that sort of thing.

2) So is killing vampires, since the law doesn't acknowledge they aren't humans, and half a dozen other things we're considering doing.

We just got done wiretapping the FBI, and almost voted to call and try to intimidate them with a record of their own phone calls.
Done right we wouldn't need to defend ourselves on this, certainly no more so than we already would if someone followed us around and recorded what we're doing anyway.


3) The whole point of any of this would be to avoid being known as a teenage multimillionaire.

On the specifics; we don't own any land out where coins or gold deposits can be found and legally claimed by Molly. One big multimillion dollar find is going to have some people sniffing for their cut, so we'd need a hell of a story. Smaller ones will similarly eventually raise questions.


4) You say this like their internal politics hasn't repeatedly resulted in them playing games that aren't good for the current leadership of the court. For that matter, that the reluctance to mess with Harry will protect us when to the supernatural community at large we basically didn't exist and aren't known to be connected to him.

Micheal might be a shield from attempts, but he's not exactly a public figure to these sort of people.

5) The problem is that unless you have infrastructure and influence to move money around having a lot of it sitting in an account makes you a target. Especially in an a world like the DF. Which is why I'd prefer if it isn't in Molly's name for a large portion of the money, just something we control by proxy.
1)There's this troubling tendency to assume that mortals can just be rolled over.
That Molly, a teenager with zero financial knowledge or charms, can structure cash flows to defeat teams of professionals poolimg dice successes. It just seems self-evidently preposterous.

This isnt the Swiss financial system of the 70s and 80s, optimized to provide maximum deniability for sundry corrupt politicians and shady operators. This is the post 9/11 US banking system, with Uncle Sam's eyes everywhere.

Molly has no bureaucracy charms, no applicable Excellencies, Finance 0, Law 0, Larceny 0.
And you want to go up against teams of feds who do this as a career?
C'mon.

2) The law recognizes a right to self defence and the defense of others in the state of Illnois, anf Molly used entirely legal weapons. Also, both Reds and Blacks are considerate enough that their biology does not leave bodies behind for law enforcement to puzzle over with sunrise. Wiretapping the FBI leaves no evidence either.

No evidence = Didnt happen :V


3)Not going to happen. There is no plausible scenario in which we get to hide our ownership of money in the US.
This is not Switzerland. Financial secrecy has always been much less absolute in the US, and post 9/11 the Federal financial authorities pushed for a lot more tracking and transparency. You do not hide that.

Furthermore, part of the whole point of being Resources 4+ is the deterrent effect it has on other govt agencies and agents.
People are much more careful about harassment when they know you can afford to sue them into penury.
Note how the Feds leave Marcone alone these days.

Part of the reason the Daedalus people were willing to try this shit with Harry is because he looks poor.



4) Harry Dresden burned the last ensemble to try that sort of thing to death in their own estate maybe four years ago.
When Madrigal and Vittorio got the bright idea in White Night to take credit for the Skavis committing serial murder, Dresden showing up to object caused a near fucking panic.

And no, they all know pretty well who and what the bearer of Amoracchius is. Red Court and Black Court vampires from bitter experience, and White Court vampires by hearsay because they live and die on information. Remember that Michael was present and recognized at Bianca's initial party in Grave Peril; a Red touched him and burned.

The Hammer of God, bless his heart, is NOT subtle when he acts, and has been quite active in the ongoing Vampire War.



5)This is the Dresdenverse.
Having blood makes you a target. Having a mind makes you a target.
You are well past reasonable caution and into counterproductive paranoia in my opinion.
 
I think you vastly overestimate the gov the don't track ever little thing nobody could even just read that amount of data. Anybody that tried would go mad form that. They use algorithms to look for problem, if the computer say nothing is wrong then nothing is wrong.
 
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