[X] Explain that Harry has been with you all day (Charisma+Empathy can use Excellency)
[X]If they are fake(unreasonable) we can still choose violence!
[X]If they are fake(unreasonable) we can still choose violence!
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
- Location
- washington
this is a pretty bad idea for a lot of reasons debating video evidence is stupid on a lot of fronts.
Note that he did not tell you were Greene died, and you were just on the very edge of the state.
- Location
- washington
we can easily ask the crown for irrefutable evidence we can tell the guy in front of us which will prove harrys innocence. Using one of the agents as a focus.
That messes with free will, Molly is not Contessa from Worm. At most it would give you a clue as to what kind of evidence it would take you to persuade him.
True True… but could we force a demon to edit this "evidence" that is obviously fake?
- Location
- washington
the irrefutable evidence part? that seems more like a law thing than a them thing they could still insist their right even if it wouldn't hold up in court.
'Irrefutable' is in the eye of the beholder, that is why the legal system exists.
- Location
- washington
By the way I'm going to note guys dresden is not going to attack these cops unless their clearly non human. He might run though to find a way to clear his name.
Shouldn't matter. Murder is a federal crime in quite a limited set of circumstances, and just there being some interstate movement doesn't change that.
Unless they're saying the murder happened on a ship?
We should be able to use the scene of Harry's arrest as a focus. @DragonParadox can we use the scene itself as a focus? The crown's wording has "situation" in the list of what we can focus it on.
Can we ask for the list of physical evidence exonerating Harry under the USA law? With the arrest itself as a focus. Or would we need to be more specific, like "the list of video recordings demonstrating Harry to be in the place other than the scene of the crime / providing alibi"?
LIke, I am fairly sure we got caught on some traffic cameras at least. And, if the murder is recent, the videos of some store / ATM security cameras in Menominee should also have Harry in their recordings.
His wife is in the FBI, almost like someone chose him for the purpose...
Last edited:
If such evidence exists as a physical object you could find it that way, if it hinges on getting witnesses to testify you would hit free will.
If this is legitimate then we're in the shut up and get a lawyer zone.
No matter what we say, they're not going to stop arresting him if they've gotten this far; at very least they'll want to take and question him.
With physical evidence an alibi consisting of a 17 year old's word makes him look more suspicious, not less. If it'll help we can give it through a lawyer later.
We should be asking him for McCoy's number so we can get a white council attorney in state, and figuring out how to stab back at whoever framed him.
No matter what we say, they're not going to stop arresting him if they've gotten this far; at very least they'll want to take and question him.
With physical evidence an alibi consisting of a 17 year old's word makes him look more suspicious, not less. If it'll help we can give it through a lawyer later.
We should be asking him for McCoy's number so we can get a white council attorney in state, and figuring out how to stab back at whoever framed him.
- Location
- washington
I mean it kind of has to exist unless someone destroyed all the traffic cam footage somehow which would definitely require some form of intellectus.
I wonder if we get a dashcam could a cyber demon create footage on it with a time stamp of today containing Dresden and Molly?
Also, we should put a cyber demon in the CCTV network asap. So it can make sure that footage of Dresden and Molly on the highway exists, even if it takes it.
Similarly, dropping a cyber demon in the local FBI office's servers and having them delete the footage is a good idea.
Also, we should put a cyber demon in the CCTV network asap. So it can make sure that footage of Dresden and Molly on the highway exists, even if it takes it.
Similarly, dropping a cyber demon in the local FBI office's servers and having them delete the footage is a good idea.
Last edited:
- Location
- washington
good idea though don't buy a dashcam cause that can be tracked. also you know probably insert other people in it as well since harry alone with a teenage girl is not good for images.
Get it second hand from a dodgy shop while in disguise, I guess.
Alone with a teenage girl is better than the FBI gunning for you.
I don't have a vote yet, but something to think about is that while we are a witness who can account for him, the townsfolk who talked to him are also witnesses. He was clearly seen in two places at once, which introduces reasonable doubt into the situation. All we need is a way to prevent anyone from escalating the situating, and for the FBI (assuming they are legit) to actually give him a chance due to reasonable doubt instead of instantly arresting him and throwing away the key because it would easily solve the case.
If as other people are saying they are impostera we have a different issue, but we should play it safe for the moment and assume we are still operating by shadow war rules, where people are trying to take Dresden off the board with legitimate mundanes because he can't conveniently disappear them since they aren't part of the masquerade. We need to treat them as real law enforcement, act respectfully, follow due process, but also try to get them to understand that he's being framed between the previous shooting and the group of witnesses we have. We could provide probable cause for the framing, in that Dresden is getting too close to the truth of a criminal matter in a case he is working on and someone wants him out of the way, they would believe that.
If as other people are saying they are impostera we have a different issue, but we should play it safe for the moment and assume we are still operating by shadow war rules, where people are trying to take Dresden off the board with legitimate mundanes because he can't conveniently disappear them since they aren't part of the masquerade. We need to treat them as real law enforcement, act respectfully, follow due process, but also try to get them to understand that he's being framed between the previous shooting and the group of witnesses we have. We could provide probable cause for the framing, in that Dresden is getting too close to the truth of a criminal matter in a case he is working on and someone wants him out of the way, they would believe that.
Last edited:
- Location
- washington
if we can make fake footage I just said to insert more people in it.
The FBI does have investigative jurisdiction over specifically homicide of state/local police officers, along with a few other things. I think they'd have to bring a state charge though?
Look, from my PoV its fairly simple. When the police go to arrest a suspected murderer, they roll deep.
When they go after an alleged copkiller, its like someone broke out a beehive.
Here, the alleged FBI are showing up with 3 dudes and knocking on the door for a case where they claim they have Dresden on camera and his fingerprints as well(we'll get back to prints, and how they got them from a dead body that got dumped in a lake, in less than a couple hours, given how long it takes forensics)
All feds. No locals. No backup.
Its so patently ridiculous that Im halfway convinced that if we had access to any police database and scanned for the faces of these fellows, they'd have criminal records.
Getting Clippy to search for their faces on Facebook/Myspace/social media and the like might be worth doing.
That immediately limits where it could have allegedly happened, since there arent that many places with electronically recorded video in 2006. And there are no federal lands in and around Chicago for FBI jurisdiction to apply.
And the dead give away here: three men.
Look at any police response to an alleged cop killer in the US; they're literally swarming all over the place, like a gang.
And the FBI would not attempt to arrest a copkiller without more people or more local backup.
Also worth noting that Dresden remembers the FBI hexenwulfen.
EDIT
Basically, its so way outside the normal MO of the Feds that it makes this entire thing ring false.
Thats why I was asking the GM OOC questions.
Based on their presentation, they're either impostors or have all been mindwhammied.
When they go after an alleged copkiller, its like someone broke out a beehive.
Here, the alleged FBI are showing up with 3 dudes and knocking on the door for a case where they claim they have Dresden on camera and his fingerprints as well(we'll get back to prints, and how they got them from a dead body that got dumped in a lake, in less than a couple hours, given how long it takes forensics)
All feds. No locals. No backup.
Its so patently ridiculous that Im halfway convinced that if we had access to any police database and scanned for the faces of these fellows, they'd have criminal records.
Getting Clippy to search for their faces on Facebook/Myspace/social media and the like might be worth doing.
They said they had video.
That immediately limits where it could have allegedly happened, since there arent that many places with electronically recorded video in 2006. And there are no federal lands in and around Chicago for FBI jurisdiction to apply.
And the dead give away here: three men.
Look at any police response to an alleged cop killer in the US; they're literally swarming all over the place, like a gang.
And the FBI would not attempt to arrest a copkiller without more people or more local backup.
Also worth noting that Dresden remembers the FBI hexenwulfen.
EDIT
Basically, its so way outside the normal MO of the Feds that it makes this entire thing ring false.
Thats why I was asking the GM OOC questions.
Based on their presentation, they're either impostors or have all been mindwhammied.
Last edited:
- Location
- Germany
Either he was just a bit clear-sighted, or he was the Summer Knight until a few years ago, after faking his death some decades ago.
