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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Note that while this is interesting and potentially useful, we've still failed to bring up one of the significant points we wanted to cover and made a much more expansive promise for free because @Yog keeps toggling Primordial speak on as a social hammer.
 
Yog said:
I am unsure if there will be the next part of the discussion
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That's not normally how that works.

Anyway I think some are overthinking it. We used an Ebon Dragon charm in a place where reality was weak and nothing bad happened. An Angel showed up because they were summoned by an enemy. We should be able to say whatever we want here.

[x] I am of the Essence of Theion-Who-Was
 
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Ivar said:
I honestly don't think the Yozis are dead. They may be in cacatonia, but they're not dead. Because there are mechanisms that link them to the Infernal Exaltations. At least I've heard speculation that as long as there are Yozi charm backups in the exaltations, they can't be killed like the Neverborn were.
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Yes, very much so. And we know that at least Ebon Dragon's Neverborn is around.
BronzeTongue said:
Note that while this is interesting and potentially useful, we've still failed to bring up one of the significant points we wanted to cover and made a much more expansive promise for free because @Yog keeps toggling Primordial speak on as a social hammer.
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I assume we'll still mention both the dragon powering the bloodline and the promise of strengthening the dragon nest. That was voted for.
 
Ivar said:
I honestly don't think the Yozis are dead. They may be in cacatonia, but they're not dead. Because there are mechanisms that link them to the Infernal Exaltations. At least I've heard speculation that as long as there are Yozi charm backups in the exaltations, they can't be killed like the Neverborn were.
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More that Primordial definitions of self and personhood makes their definitions of dead even more wobbly then usual. You can even say that Molly is Theion.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Note that while this is interesting and potentially useful, we've still failed to bring up one of the significant points we wanted to cover and made a much more expansive promise for free because @Yog keeps toggling Primordial speak on as a social hammer.
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I will honestly say that this is not the first time that DragonParadox has ignored the exact words of the vote and not mentioned all of our points. The last time was during Molly's speech to the assembly of wizards where parts of the vote were ignored as I recall.
 
Ivar said:
I will honestly say that this is not the first time that DragonParadox has ignored the exact words of the vote and not mentioned all of our points. The last time was during Molly's speech to the assembly of wizards where parts of the vote were ignored as I recall.
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The rest will come later, a conversation means you may be asked questions before you get your full point out since it involves more than one person getting their word in.
 
I am sorry to say, but although I would rather that the Exaltation went unfound we simply can't just leave it be at this point. Even if we stop Odin from going for it. It is in the middle of the ocean. The Formor will go for it soon.
 
Ivar said:
The last time was during Molly's speech to the assembly of wizards where parts of the vote were ignored as I recall.
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Also on this. The only part I can think of would've been Yog wanting primordial speech to be used for Molly's speech. She ended up speaking in Latin anyway which is the language the White Council decided on to facilitate a global organization.

That said if we had used SCCP like Yog asked Molly would've blew through her essence so other people can speak back to her without their ears bleeding. As a result, BMI would've fallen, the burnings eyes and Infernal aura would've come out and everything would've went to shit. On top of that the beautiful stunt that was written would've come out weird if we were using the "let's start speaking in something other than plain English and see how well the readers keep up!" charm.

So it's a good thing that it either was forgotten or ignored.

fictionfan said:
The Formor will go for it soon.
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It's been sitting their for a long time and they haven't though.. or they have and the dragon has been getting rid of them. Not saying we should leave it if we have another option but this logic is strange.
 
BoredMan said:
It's been sitting their for a long time and they haven't though.. or they have and the dragon has been getting rid of them. Not saying we should leave it if we have another option but this logic is strange.
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I agree that it doesn't actually make much logical sense, but it feels like a narrative magnet. Where when the QM does go for it and we complain he just says "What did you think that they were going to just ignore the world shattering weapon on their doorstep?"
 
BoredMan said:
It's been sitting their for a long time and they haven't though.. or they have and the dragon has been getting rid of them. Not saying we should leave it if we have another option but this logic is strange.
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In story, Molly's exaltation clearly set off the change of Ages, and put a lot of things in motion. Things that remained static and forgotten in the hidden corners of the world are no longer such. I wonder if Uriel actually realized what he was doing. We know that he wasn't fully cognizant of what Molly's Crown was, but was he intentionally setting off the Apocalypse when getting Molly to exalt?
 
fictionfan said:
I agree that it doesn't actually make much logical sense, but it feels like a narrative magnet. Where when the QM does go for it and we complain he just says "What did you think that they were going to just ignore the world shattering weapon on their doorstep?"
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In all seriousness the Formor are in the ocean, the entirety of it isn't their proverbial doorstep. This was pointed out by DP when we were talking about letting the airplane we killed Arianna in fall into the ocean or not, people were concerned that it'd get raided by Formor or something. In this case they would have to somehow figure out that the Dragon swallowed something of importance then decide that it's worth fighting a sleeping Dragon over or they would not know of that and just decide to fight a Dragon when they could go around.

There are limits to what can plausibly happen for narrative reasons so I don't think the Formor are a real concern here. We should be more concerned with the Abyssal shard on that front if anything since we don't know it's status just that it's in the ocean.

Though now that I'm thinking about it I'm not sure how that works since the solar shard isn't actually here but in the past.

Yog said:
In story, Molly's exaltation clearly set off the change of Ages, and put a lot of things in motion. Things that remained static and forgotten in the hidden corners of the world are no longer such.
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Yes but this doesn't mean that everyone is suddenly going to get long lost lore of Exaltations and their locations. That knowledge can't spawn out of nowhere. Though it does mean that people may go looking for such things if they know of Molly's relation to them, those people would already have some lore, like Odin, and would need context on Molly's relation.

Being realistic here, I don't think the Formor are a concern with the Dragon in particular.
 
Nyarky said:
Maybe not the Formor, but Evil bob is still there and trying to work on it himself, so we do have to do things about that at the very least.
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It would be funny if after all of this Evil Bob still got off scott free because we got distracted when we started this with the intention of finally wrapping up that loose end. Hopefully we have the time though once this is done, one way or the other. Evil Bob first showed up when we were E1 in one of the very first Arcs when we fought the rogue Valkyrie.

Edit: Also Molly drew a connection between the guy who tried to pull out the Blampire who went after the Exaltation statue in Vegas that we ate and the guy who pulled Evil Bob out, so whatever Evil Bob knows probably came from some super old Blampire. Like Dracula or something.
 
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We should probably consider that there are two layers and motivations here: external and internal. Externally, the choice is about what and how to tell the dragonblooded elder. Green-Sun-Fire is a simplification, and relying on lore that is of this age. It's something Mab could tell her. Theion-that-Was will probably have to rely on Occult excellency, is deep lore, and would be stuff that Uriel hesitates to speak about. But it would be much clearer, I think, and also might face less prejudice.

The internal stuff is about legacy. This is referenced in the update. What sort of Legacy Molly is claiming? This is directly referenced in the update
DragonParadox said:
Such a simple question, so reasonable coming from one whose kinship to the Dragon of Fire is so clear. Until that very moment it didn't occur to you to wonder at the question. No, you admit, better to say I did not like to ponder it, you admit. All the answers are as twisted and uncanny, born of feverish dreams or the mouths of Outsiders. If anyone would recognize the names it would be this woman, in this place, the hot breath of the earth blowing all around you. But do you want to claim those names, that half understood history of war and dominion under a shade-less sky?
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Molly doesn't fully understand the legacy of the Crown she bears, her information comes to her as fevered dreams and taunts of the Enemies of Creation, whose words are always poison. Yet, she is guessing that hers is a legacy in need of redemption, I think. She probably realizes that it isn't necessarily a good one. There's a risk here, if the dragonblooded recognizes the name as that of the enemy of her kind. I doubt it, but it's possible. But there's also a question of how much distance Molly herself wants to put between herself and the being who Exalted her.
 
There is some nuance to our answer here.

The chains are broken and Molly is advancing in her own name to build a primordial self which is unique to her as a heretic. She's not a full devil tiger, but she's not an orthodox infernal either and the Yozi didn't choose her for anything. Not on purpose.

Replying to "who chose you" with an unvarnished "Theion" implies things about the relationship.

[X] Plan Stolen Fire:
-[X] Drawing herself up, Molly allowed the dream that was a world to play across her thoughts. The place that was hers alone, as much as any power she had claimed. In a tower impossibly distant and as close as her own heart a name burned with poisonous radiance, casting long shadows of a throne.
—[X] [Knowledge Fragmented. Meaning Unclear]. [Fact: Unbound. Unchained.] [Fact: Ambition-To-Nature-Turning. World-Soul Manifest: The Queen Is Her Queendom]
—[X] [Theory: Essence of Theion-Who-Was, of Green-Sun-Fire Involved. Unknown, Unintended, Inheritor]

This primordial speak stuff is a pain. The point here is to give a more accurate IC answer to avoid unfortunate implications.

As I understand it Molly is a heretical infernal well on her way to being her own primordial from the perspective of a cosmic timescale. Uriel might have lined this up, but he didn't really know what he was setting in motion and neither did anyone else. The important part is that she's the primordial version of an accidental pregnancy and not a sign that hell is choosing champions again or that someone downstairs might find Creation's most dangerous remote control one day.

I went with presenting both names in the framing of that theory because I don't think Molly technically knows for a fact how she's related to Theion, or even that both those titles belong to the same guy. She's heard those names without full context from people she doesn't fully trust in various ways.

You could accurately refer to Hercules as of the line of Kronos if you wanted to make some obscure point, but it would leave a great deal of ambiguity as to who his parents were. Same deal here.

So this translates to:
" Not really sure, I know I don't answer to anyone and that I'm growing into something of my own. I think that Theion and the Green Sun are involved, but I don't actually know what either of those names invoke or what part they play".
 
Theion was obscure even in the First Age where people were alive that fought him.

Malfeas and the Green Sun would be better remembered but still unlikely.

Although didn't that Yama King want to be the Green Sun? It might be misunderstood. (Also the old Exalted would probably laugh their asses off.)
 
[X] Plan Stolen Fire:
-[X] Drawing herself up, Molly allowed the dream that was a world to play across her thoughts. The place that was hers alone, as much as any power she had claimed. In a tower impossibly distant and as close as her own heart a name burned with poisonous radiance, casting long shadows of a throne.
—[X] [Knowledge Fragmented. Meaning Unclear]. [Fact: Unbound. Unchained.] [Fact: Ambition-To-Nature-Turning. World-Soul Manifest: The Queen Is Her Queendom]
—[X] [Theory: Essence of Theion-Who-Was, of Green-Sun-Fire Involved. Unknown, Unintended, Inheritor]
 
BronzeTongue said:
So this translates to:
" Not really sure, I know I don't answer to anyone and that I'm growing into something of my own. I think that Theion and the Green Sun are involved, but I don't actually know what either of those names invoke or what part they play".
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Thanks for the translation. This does seem like the most honest and correct Molly like answer.

[X] Plan Stolen Fire:
 
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