Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

You have a cite for that as all the charms I posted exist and work. They also make no mention of being bypassed by anything or anyone.
Yozi are forbidden from giving such orders by the surrender oaths. But a true primordial can, their is no defense against a god being ordered to do their job, because doing their job is a part of their existence, they where designed to obey the primordial's. Even if an order to do their duty went against their motivations they still have to do it.

It why the exalted had to be fully independent of the gods, because the primordial did try and order the gods to stop/control the exalted. This did nothing solely because the gods have zero influence over the exalted.
 
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Arc 15 Post 12: Charting Spirits, Seeking Stars New
Charting Spirits, Seeking Stars

26st of February 2007 A.D.

At the end of the day Von Trier has more than earned some truths here, just maybe not all of it and a weapon on the scale the fey courts take note of. "You guys were a little off the mark. Whomever infiltrated government systems aimed to sabotage Odin through Monoc Securities to disrupt his operations. He's after something that they want but what that is exactly I cannot say. As for the servers, I believe it would be less of a hassle if I went openly under a false guise."

"His operations being...?" The elderly mage, wizard really, you recognize the tone of authority hones over the centuries as much as any elder member of the White Council, asks.

"Not to be found in a stray bone of one of his enemies," you answer, tartly with a hint of humor, sometimes the briefest lies are best.

She sighs. "Of course it wouldn't be that easy, keep me posted if you find something of interest to national security... again."

Lost 1 Essence -> Now at 16/18 (Excellency)

The emphasis on that final word has you snort a laugh into the phone tumbling into a bit of guilt at what you're not saying. Not enough to forget who she answers too though.

Arrangements are quickly made your new identity: Deborah Dvorak, a thirty something with tightly braided hair and an inclination to long sweeping coats trimmed with fake fur, 'she' couldn't be more different from Molly Carpenter in manner or dress and a veil is a common enough skill that it shouldn't trouble the Library to know you can do it. Now if they knew just how hard it's to pierce...

Lost 1 Essence -> Now at 15/18 (BMI)

No sense borrowing trouble, you think two hours later as you slide out of the somewhat ironically named 'Peace River' that flows so close to the nerve center of the greatest military superpower in the world. The agent with your credentials is right where he's supposed to be.

"Ms Dvorak?" It's not really a question.

"Nice," Truth be told you are impressed at the quality of the documents going off a selfie Clippy had send them.

"I'll do the talking ma'am, unless there's something specific you need to do to the servers..." What you had taken more polite reservation on the part of the agent turns out to be weariness, confusion and... curiosity. This isn't someone who works for the Library, you realize.

"Please not ma'am," you raise a hand as though to ward off the unwelcome happening. "That makes me sound like my mother. Deborah will do, it's... accurate enough here and now. I just need a few minutes of access."

There's a kind of weight to the silence and the dust, the twinkling LEDs, like Christmas lights shorn from their trees and cast in bureaucratic drudgery. But more than anything there are a lot of people around, for the size of the rooms it always feels like there's twenty percent more than is comfortable and all of them are curious. I guess you would have to be that way to work here.


"What other locations have been infiltrated by the party responsible for the compromising of these severs," you think... and see more servers, knowing instinctively they are rooms like this one, for all they are smaller and more cramped and in one case have a bit of mold growing on the walls.

French, British and Russian Intelligence. The names come at you in their native languages yet perfectly understandable. That is either Anti-Bob having a specific purpose, or holding a grudge from the War.

Lost 1 Essence -> Now at 14/18 (Crown Question)

Thanking the your hosts you quickly take your leave and return by way of water to Chicago before checking in with Clippy who had found the Kingfisher of your last answer, a Norwegian research ship, blue and white as it said and ask: What prize older and brighter than the stars above does does this vessel seek at her patron's call

Through your mind's eye a 'hairy star passes', from east to west overcoming the setting sun in its brightness. It jolts a memory of the note that Lilly passed you six months ago, the treasure of the doomed Prince Trucc. Checking back on the contents... 'the fields of men turned fallow and where it wept there was hail and famine and where is fell calamity'

Lost 1 Essence -> Now at 13/18 (Crown Question)
Regained 2 Essence (Urge of the Forbidden) -> Now at 15/18


"OK, I'm on a roll here..." you say, encouraging yourself. For once Usum isn't around to cheer you up, doing something for Regina maybe. You pull out your last conversation with Odin and try to use the fact he's looking for the thing to find its location.

The the eyes do not open, the power doesn't burn, not a close enough connection. You are either going to have to find the ship wherever she's sailing or point your crown at the Donnar himself.

What do you do next?

[] Inform the Library that a bunch of intelligence agencies have a malicious spirit in their system

[] Ask Odin what he's looking for

[] Look for the Kingfisher, there should be public data about her course

[] Write in


OOC: I had Molly think about the last question IC because that was a reasonable thing for her to do, try to push the crown, but no luck, too many degrees of separation Recording->Odin-> The treasure-> It's location
 
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a true primordial can, their is no defense against a god being ordered to do their job, because doing their job is a part of their existence, they where designed to obey the primordial's. Even if an order to do their duty went against their motivations they still have to do it.
I was asking do you have a source for that claim I haven't been able to find anything to substantiate that I'm not saying it doesn't exist but some citation would be good and possibly necessary.
 
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If degrees of separation is the issue we could use water travel to get to Kingfisher and ATP with BMI to remain undetected. So we could use the Crown on it to get the location of the comet and not notify Odin.
 
If degrees of separation is the issue we could use water travel to get to Kingfisher and ATP with BMI to remain undetected. So we could use the Crown on it to get the location of the comet and not notify Odin.

Navigation would be tricky since Molly does not have any Survival and you are trying to find a specific ship on the ocean. When you are the ocean per RVD your senses are limited so you have to come out look around and so forth, but yes that is doable.
 
Navigation would be tricky since Molly does not have any Survival and you are trying to find a specific ship on the ocean. When you are the ocean per RVD your senses are limited so you have to come out look around and so forth, but yes that is doable.
Shouldn't the ship have iff? We could try to do sequential approximations. Drop out of rvd, check coordinates via GPS, rvd, move a bit, check GPS, etc. A bit slower, but should be reliable.
 
Shouldn't the ship have iff? We could try to do sequential approximations. Drop out of rvd, check coordinates via GPS, rvd, move a bit, check GPS, etc. A bit slower, but should be reliable.

It should, whether it is still on while they are looking for ancient and terrible treasure Molly does not know, either way that's what the vote to look for the ship would investigate.
 
Navigation would be tricky since Molly does not have any Survival and you are trying to find a specific ship on the ocean. When you are the ocean per RVD your senses are limited so you have to come out look around and so forth, but yes that is doable.
We can see while RVD, and BSM ensures we never have any difficulties seeing things through the water out to 200 yards.

Given that Molly is actually spread across the entire body of water she's in and how RVD works in terms of things nearby to the liquid she's in I think there's an argument to be made that Molly should be able to see everything inside the water and 200 yards out from it.

Literally turning the ocean into one vast eye like the horror movie monster she is. :V
 
We can see while RVD, and BSM ensures we never have any difficulties seeing things through the water out to 200 yards.

Given that Molly is actually spread across the entire body of water she's in and how RVD works in terms of things nearby to the liquid she's in I think there's an argument to be made that Molly should be able to see everything inside the water and 200 yards out from it.

Literally turning the ocean into one vast eye like the horror movie monster she is. :V

Seeing through water requires her to be in the water, when she is dispersed she is the water which makes her senses less acute. To put it another way even though her blood is mostly water Molly does not walk around with perfect perception of everything within 200 yards of her veins.
 
I think you ruled the other way on this previously:

Oh to be clear you can perceive around a body of water you are a part of, all of it, you just can't do it very well hence needing to come up when you transition from one body of water to another in order to make the jump. Molly has always done survival rolls to find places she has not been to before, finding a ship is harder than that, but by no means beyond her
 
Oh to be clear you can perceive around a body of water you are a part of, all of it, you just can't do it very well hence needing to come up when you transition from one body of water to another in order to make the jump. Molly has always done survival rolls to find places she has not been to before, finding a ship is harder than that, but by no means beyond her
Oh. I thought she was making those rolls because seeing something and knowing what it is are different things. Not a lot of navigation tools directly apply to a say a fish eye of the ocean floor. Hence survival to mentally translate what she senses into what she needs to know.

RVD doesn't say anything about diminished senses either that I see:
The Infernal spends a moment in concentration, and then vanishes into her liquid hiding place at the end of the turn. She may see and hear anything that occurs nearby, as though through a pane of thin glass. While hiding, she cannot be detected by any mundane means, even by diving in after her. Nor does she enjoy freedom of movement herself: she is effectively dispersed into her hiding-place at the point of immersion. If her hiding place is disrupted or dispersed (such as by dashing out the contents of a cup of coffee, or someone drinking it), or else evaporates or otherwise vanishes, the Infernal is forcibly ejected.

She can see everything near the water like she's looking through a glass.

BSM gives a general immunity to having her perception reduced while submerged and gives examples of things that it might defend you from, but technically the terms aren't any specific type of obstruction:
The Infernal suffers no penalties or difficulties while attempting to perceive her surroundings while submerged. She can hear and see clearly around herself out to at least 200 yards despite impediments such as churning silt or being in the absolute darkness of the sub-light layers of the ocean.

These seem like directly complementary powers; being dispersed in the liquid is as submerged as you can get and she has a defined omnidirectional viewpoint. BSM would apply to how that viewpoint works.
 
Way back at the start of the quest I interpreted 'a pane of glass' as being wavy or imperfect glass since if she could just see perfectly it would say that, there is no reason to say 'you can see as well as if you are looking though something transparent'.
 
[] Inform the Library that a bunch of intelligence agencies have a malicious spirit in their system

The White Council may have contacts with British and French intelligence.

in the UK, GCHQ is probably unimpressed that someone has messed with their newish building:



And they missed a trick if they didn't make it a set of concentric magic circles.
 
Glories of the Most High: The Unconquered Sun Errata
The Divine Geas
The geas which affects the Celestial Incarnae is not the result of any Charm known to the Yozis—their power is too great to be constrained by Cecelyne's law in the manner of lesser
beings—but rather a limitation built directly into the Incarnae to prevent them from attacking their masters. The geas was considered particularly crucial in the case of the Unconquered Sun, whose power the Primordials were right to fear. However, the geas is not entirely paralytic. The Holy Tyrant demanded that the Celestial Incarnae be weapons with which he could threaten and terrify his brethren, and so he may reflexively declare any of the Incarnae free of the geas from anywhere in existence. However, the geas naturally reinstates itself at the end of the scene, unless the Primordial King declares that it should not be. This allows the Incarna in question to attack any Primordial in existence. Once revoked, the geas may not be verbally reinstated. Only a scene change will serve to shackle the Incarna once more. In the Age of Sorrows, Malfeas retains the power to revoke the great geas.

The geas will also recede if the Incarna is attacked by any Primordial with the intent to do harm to the god. When this happens, the Incarna instinctively realizes the geas has temporarily been lifted, and may attack any Primordial in existence. The geas naturally reasserts itself one hour from the point at which the Incarna was last attacked by a titan; in this way, the Empyreal Chaos need not continually declare the geas null after unleashing the Unconquered Sun on one of his enemies.
Exalted 2E - Books of Sorcery Vol. 4 - Roll Of Glorious Divinity
HISTORY
When the Primordials brought Creation out of chaos, they anchored the world in the influence of the shinma, and they chose five shinma to support the power of their servants. In Dharma, the Cup and the shinma of corrosion, ignorance and desire, the Primordials rooted the Virtue of Compassion. In Nirvikalpa, the Staff and the shinma of communication, they rooted the Virtue of Conviction. In Nirvishesha, the Ring and the shinma of identity, they rooted Temperance. In Nishkriya, the Sword and the shinma of conflict, they rooted Valor. In Nirguna, the Heart and the shinma of existence, they rooted not a Virtue but the principle the Virtues define. In existence, the Primordials anchored will.

In the time before the Primordial War, Creation was a machine of clockwork efficiency. The Bureaus of the gods were absolute, and each god knew its task. Each god knew how to maintain the world, and how to fix the faults introduced when the Primordials broke from the Games of Divinity and took amusement in Creation.
The will of the gods, stemming from existence and upheld by desire, communication, identity and conflict, was the Primordials' downfall. Will abhors its own absence. Will defies unwilling servitude. From will springs ambition. Because of will, the gods detested their slavery. Though it took aeons for rebellion to blossom fully, the Primordials planted its seed at the beginning and in the heart of their great work.
In secret, the Unconquered Sun, highest and most virtuous of the gods, to whom the Primordials had granted the greatest will that he might form an invincible bulwark against the Wyld, made plans for a coming war.
MOTIVE
With the possible exception of the Incarnae, the Five Elemental Dragons and certain prehistoric gods who survive from when the Primordials still ruled Creation, gods are not so unlike human beings as to be total ciphers. Gods act from motivations that humans can
understand. Even the most strange and incomprehensible god is no more irrational than an insane human being, and gods as enigmatic as that are rare.

Similar to people, gods want things. They want to survive. They want comfort and pleasure. Gods with forms capable of eating want to eat delicious food, though what they find delicious may vary. Gods with forms capable of intercourse want to have sex with entities
they find attractive, though what they find attractive may likewise vary (and doesn't necessary depend on physical traits). Gods with forms capable of sleep or relaxation want to find repose in comfortable places, though a volcano god may be comfortable in a place
that would kill a mortal in an instant.

Gods want fulfillment. All want to feel comfortable with themselves and their nature. Many want the validation of their peers, pleasant company and enjoyable conversation. Many are ambitious, especially powerful gods—in prehistory, all gods did the jobs they were assigned, but in the time since the Primordial War, gods with desire for power have risen in status, while complacent gods have fallen in rank.
The degree to which any god feels any one of these motives varies. In this, they are once again much like humans. But gods aren't human. Their human-like motives and ambitions often manifest in inhuman ways
NATURE
A god's nature is the trait or set of traits that define the god and set him apart from mortality and other gods, such as incorruptible devotion to an ideal or fanatical
obsession with a sensation. In prehistory, each god's nature aligned as perfectly with the god's responsibilities as the Primordials could ensure. As Creation has changed over time, and as the Primordials no longer create gods to maintain the world, the divinities of Creation have assumed new duties. In addition, gods reproduce amongst themselves, and a child god's nature is usually linked to the nature of his parents, but unpredictably so.
Yeah everything I've seen on the Geas on every creature including the Gods in the prehistory seems to suggest it is only against violence against the primordials, their second and third circle souls and that's it. The Binding only stops people(Gods, Dragon kings, the Great Elementals) from attempting to fight/injure the primordials it doesn't actually stop any God from protecting themselves against injury that is actually one of the conditions that could be met to temporarily release that restriction for a scene but nothing about command or obedience.

If any one has anything that contradicts that I would love to see it
And yet the worry that they would be ordered to order Exalted to stand down, was real. Very interesting and insightful thought about Maidens. Thank you.
Gods can be ordered to preform their duty as gods, and they have to obay the primordial's. This is true of all gods as an innate property of a gods existence.
 
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Way back at the start of the quest I interpreted 'a pane of glass' as being wavy or imperfect glass since if she could just see perfectly it would say that, there is no reason to say 'you can see as well as if you are looking though something transparent'.
Why would it say thin instead of cloudy then? It just seems like flowery prose to me.

Even then BSM does act as a proverbial pair of glasses. Given how incredibly narrow 90% of the situations that charm applies to cutting it off from other charms that directly play into the same conditions seems like an unnecessary and counterintuitive restriction.
 
If any one has anything that contradicts that I would love to see it
Exalted 2E core, page 32:
It is important to understand that although the Exaltation
springs from a divinity and is clearly aligned with that god's
influences, its maker has no natural control over it. Had this
been otherwise, the gods would have merely been ordered by
their Primordial overlords to gather the power of the Exalted

back up and forced to crush their own uprising. Exaltation is a
fire passed into the hands of man, a gift that cannot be taken
back, and what the Exalt does after receiving it is governed
by his will and vision alone.
Though I generally agree that the geas has to have some limits, and was mostly about "you can't harm Primordials", there were some means by which Primordials could actually order gods around.
 
Ok, so, for the actual vote. The reasonable plan of action seems to be:

[X] Setting Sail
-[X] Inform the Library that a bunch of intelligence agencies have a malicious spirit in their system
--[X] STUNT: "You asked to call if I find something pertinent to national security. Would allied national security count? Allied as in "someone might not consider World War 2 ended" allied" you say into the phone, a little bit of levity to alleviate the foul news, even as you keep moving towards your next destination, the waters already in sight.
-[X] Look for the Kingfisher, there should be public data about her course
--[X] Have your spirits look for the records from when the ship was docked: crew manifests, shipment records of stuff like food and fuel, maintenance logs by the dock personnel.
--[X] Use one of the things you find to ask a question of how to find the ship
---[X] RVD towards the ship, apply ATP beforehand
----[X] Use the ship as a focus to find the location of the treasure
 
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Though I generally agree that the geas has to have some limits, and was mostly about "you can't harm Primordials", there were some means by which Primordials could actually order gods around.
Sorry to dig at you is there anything to suggest that it's the primordial Geas doing that and not just being ordered by the primordials to do something because they all have unnatural influence charms and outright do what I say or die charms and a lot of them scale off of essence level and only the incarna and the elemental dragons are Essence 10.

[X] Yog
 
Why would it say thin instead of cloudy then? It just seems like flowery prose to me.

Even then BSM does act as a proverbial pair of glasses. Given how incredibly narrow 90% of the situations that charm applies to cutting it off from other charms that directly play into the same conditions seems like an unnecessary and counterintuitive restriction.

It's how I've been running this for the length of the quest, partially because it would be hard to write perfect insight over the whole Atlantic or something

@DragonParadox does this count as a supernatural secret?

Yes, I'd say it does, one moment
 
Ok, so, for the actual vote. The reasonable plan of action seems to be:

[X] Setting Sail
-[X] Inform the Library that a bunch of intelligence agencies have a malicious spirit in their system
--[X] STUNT: "You asked to call if I find something pertinent to national security. Would allied national security count? Allied as in "someone might not consider World War 2 ended" allied" you say into the phone, a little bit of brevity to alleviate the foul news, even as you keep moving towards your next destination, the waters already in sight.
-[X] Look for the Kingfisher, there should be public data about her course
--[X] Have your spirits look for the records from when the ship was docked: crew manifests, shipment records of stuff like food and fuel, maintenance logs by the dock personnel.
--[X] Use one of the things you find to ask a question of how to find the ship
---[X] RVD towards the ship, apply ATP beforehand
----[X] Use the ship as a focus to find the location of the treasure
One small thing: I think you mean "levity", not "brevity", given the context. Aside from that...

[X] Setting Sail
 
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