Marcone's interlude is this one, and specifically this part:
Gard did research on Marcone's dime. Was unsuccessful, or at least was pretending to be unsuccessful.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
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Ok, so, another solar-abyssal pair? Cannot be the same one, because the Dawn Solar in Vegas is not under sea. It's not even in the present - it's still in the ancient Egypt, about to leave its dying host as they accomplish one of their great workings.
We can also expect at least some dragonblooded opposition. Maybe take the Arthurian knights with us? And Lydia. Lydia for her likely affinity to Abyssal (not in the sense that she is eligible, but in the sense that her magics are likely close to it in nature), and the knights should have ride / sail abilities, probably.
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BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
I thought about it but if this is going to take place underwater I don't think they'll be of much use. I suppose it could be in an underwater temple of some kind like back in Vegas when we broke into Charon's place.. though back then we had Tiffany give them gills. This is starting to look complicated, I think we should wait to see what the Crown shows/tells us first then decide who to bring if any after. Underwater combat is bad for anyone not Molly, as far as we know the knights don't have anything for that.
I agree with the general point of keeping Odin ignorant, but it's worth remembering that we were a bit more cautious than this implies when dealing with him.
We made deals for specific services, not general favors of whatever he'd like at the time. He could offer to clear our debt with another service, but the point of set terms is that neither of us can unilaterally change them.
What he could do is call all our debt at once and try to tie us up while he rushes for the finish line or something like that.
I'm still very skeptical of our ability to make an exaltation do what we want it to without credentials and tools we don't have. Especially since Molly IC doesn't know as much as we do about how they work, or the IC nitty gritty necessary to play with them. We can't exactly research that before we have something to start with in a plausible way even if we allow for the idea that it's possible.
If it's currently trapped in a weapon we might be able to stick it in Demonreach though. I'd prefer forever, but at minimum until we know how to make the most notoriously contrarian type of celestial exaltation go where we tell it to.
Maybe avoid killing the dragon if it's still alive and kidnap it to serve as additional insulation during transit instead.
It's more about diplomacy. Dragonblooded will probably get a better chance of diplomancing things through than we will, given how we feel.
He might not be able to tell us to stay away directly, but yes, calling us for a different fight is almost certainly an option. Also, note the quote @BoredMan found. We might be looking at a completely different solar-abyssal pair. We might also be looking at elder exalts, not their shards, locked in stasis / eternal combat. Not sure what else qualifies as "a Beast of Gold and a Beast of Night". Sol and Luna? That would be something (to stay very, very far away from).
Silvereagle21
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[X] BoredMan
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On the wizard arch-mage debate. Mostly if the council has multiple WOD arch-mages unaffected by paradox then we we should expect the Red Court to be destroyed within the next month now that they don't have highly placed traitors in their ranks and subtle mind control on all the senior leadership.
That big huge blood ritual the red Court was putting together to kill The black staff and instead killed the red Court? Multiple Arch-mages should be able to put together something similar fairly easy.
A united white council using WOD mage rules without paradox is the most powerful organization on earth.
That big huge blood ritual the red Court was putting together to kill The black staff and instead killed the red Court? Multiple Arch-mages should be able to put together something similar fairly easy.
A united white council using WOD mage rules without paradox is the most powerful organization on earth.
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BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
I suppose I shouldn't assume that it'd inevitably devolve into combat and ideally handle it peacefully before Odin gets involved but when choosing who to bring later we should keep in mind the tactical details in case negotiations break down.
Some kind of experiments or warriors or some equivalent made by Exalted? I think we figured out that Gilgamesh was something like that? Though DP also noted that didn't necessarily mean that Gil wasn't also an exalt.
I don't think the setting we've seen so far matches the idea that multiple significant elements of the age of legends are that close to the surface. If they were more people should know about them.
This includes that thing in Egypt, something screwy is going on besides the obvious because ten thousand years is not long enough for people older than time to forget this much about what Exalts are. If a Dawn caste was running around for more than a few days it wouldn't really make sense for Molly to be so completely out of context for all of the gods we've seen. Even the ones whose faiths are younger than that time period are still older entities wearing younger masks.
Actually having Sol and Luna around in comprehensible form would make that even more nonsensical. An age so distant that it's a mystery to timeless gods should be buried deeper than the bottom of the sea.
If it's imprisoned exalts they should definitely stay in their box. We have no way of stopping them from doing absolutely anything they want to once they're out.
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
We should wait to see what the Crown tells us first before deciding anything. Odin is planning on poking them either way.
Something very, very screwy is going on. Because we also know of at least three Infernals running in Middle East within recorded history, one of whom made Gilgamesh.
Personally, I would start looking at the Tower of Babel accident, and how White God is not that shu about mass memory modifications.
Ok, now, this part here I disagree with. We are an E4 circle. We are not helpless against peer opponents. And unless the exalts in question are E6+ elders, they are going to be peer opponents, not superior beings we can't hope to stop or direct.
Temperance is not a virtue the exalted have ever possessed. I have doubts about the idea that a pair of high essence solaroids from another age let loose on the world would do anything other than build kingdoms for themselves and try to rebuild the world to suit their sensibilities.
Do you have cites on that? Potentially being a thing and actually being a thing are very different.
One or two exaltations briefly brushing the world and getting stuck back in a box is one thing, but upwards of five solaroids all coming out and then quietly going away without anyone* remembering enough to recognize them? That's too ludicrous to make sense.
* Beyond people literally older than the current iteration of linear time.
My assumption is that they'd be 6+ because someone trapped them instead of killing them.
E1-5 are killable for less effort than permanently locking them up, so if they're living humans there's almost certainly something making super jail a better option.
Even if they're not, ExWoD favors solars to a significant degree. We only have two practical ways to measure up; crafting equipment for ourselves and building our custom charm set in such a way that it bridges the gap.
We don't have serious equipment built yet, and even if we had more charms from the current FCF stuff on whole it currently lacks the synergy and/or focus to actually make a difference in this context.
A combat build could trivially drown our entire party in excellency backed attacks in the first turn, and any sort of social build would be lethally dangerous.
Being unreadable, including to the crown given how things have gone in the past, but knowing exactly what Molly's about at a glance is entirely possible.
Even looking right at them we would be unable to tell a good actor from a bad one because a bad actor with any investment in avoiding detection could look like whatever we want to find.
So it comes down to how much you trust someone from the days where "an eye for an eye" was considered a progressive judicial reform with unlimited cosmic power whose nature cannot be known with certainty in advance.
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
Okay. This doesn't have anything to do with what I said though. It literally might not even be exalts in the first place.
I thought you meant we should wait to use the crown to determine if they were okay to release, and not if they were present at all.
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
I was referring to the plan vote I posted which has us use the Crown to find out what they even are.
Thorned Namshiel directly named at least three Infernals. Or, I guess, maybe three incarnations of an infernal:
Those are not Molly's past lives. One of them sas Gilgamesh's midwife, and likely designer /maker.
My guess is that the Tower of Babel happened. The mythological timing is close enough. A reality-wide mindwipe about the subject. It's not like that os impossible to achieve.
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Odin shouldn't be able to exalt a einherjar or Valkyrie as no one dead has ever exalted. Abyssal can only do it as their dying.
This is accurate, death does things to the soul that render it beyond the reach of Exaltation, even the Abyssal. It should be noted though that he does run a mercenary company, he probably does employ some mortals as well and knowing his standards they are likely to be quite impressive.
Edit: Good night guys.
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Yeah and it's not like most can control exaltations that's a feature of the exaltations after all. It's real fickong hard to hold them and basically impossible to plan an exaltation. There's a chance as someone like the unconquered sun lets one go someone in front of them exalts if they were doing something great. But that's near impossible to replicate after all.
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He told us the name of three people he thought were the same thing as us, we have no confirmation he was right and they actually were infernals.
Telling what you think is the truth doesn't necessarily makes it the truth.
As far as my extensive dive into E2 books demonstrated to me, this is wrong. The "exaltations were designed so it's impossible to guide them" is fanon. What is true, is that exaltations have specific requirements for their host souls and situations in which exaltation can happen. Those are very hard if not outright impossible to tamper with. But while operating within those parameters, at least according to canon books, with access to Lytek and/or specific tools, it's entirely possible to a) select specific individuals for specific exaltations, and exalt them immediately b) make it someone's destiny to exalt with a non-specific shard, c) exclude people in specific regions of space from exalting, d) exclude humans of specific lineages from exalting. If you want a detailed list of quotes, proofs and speculations of how this is compliant with lore, I'll PM you, as I have been asked to stop this discussion in the main thread.
Ok, that's a fair point, and one I haven't considered, but it would be the Fallen themselves mistaking us for something else, and they had a chance to really look at us, so I think there's at least a good chance they were able to identify the class of being that we are.
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
Namshiel baited us with that knowledge when we were on our way to him rather than after doing shintai in his face so I wouldn't say that he got a "chance to really look at us". Before then he saw us through a camera phone.
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