[X] Yog
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
If this is the final word then it's the final word, but it does feel like a bit of a retcon given how many conversations about this involved us asking about the this stuff and getting scale and clarity back without additional qualifications:
If there's a time to retcon how it works this is the time to do it since it's the first time it'd be relevant, but I don't think it naturally follows we should have understood it worked that way all along.
It's really late for me right now. I'll sleep on it to come up with a more coherent and brief answer that balances the text of the charm with the difficulty of writing someone who can perceive every point on an ocean at once with perfect clarity
Last edited:
Silvereagle21
Soaring through the Sky
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
[X] Yog
Good night guys.
COMMENTARY
1) So they have infiltration in French and British intelligence. All countries with Arctic/North Sea presence.
Which suggests this isnt about the Abyssal shard in the Pacific, but the comet in the North Sea.
Britain and France, which has a lot of White Council influence but which until recently had the whole Peabody/Hollow Man conspiracy issue. Russia used to have White Council influence until the Reds killed Simon Petrovich.
Significantly, not Chinese, Indian or Japanese intelligence, where Jade Court influence is strong.
Not Scandinavian or German either, where Odin likely retains significant home influence.
Essentially, that looks like your standard botnet strategy.
Still worth noting that we dont know if they have human agency collaborators in the respective countries
Either way, this is still a pretty far-reaching conspiracy.
2) AIS already exists, and the ownership of the Kingfisher is public knowledge.
A scene with the HQ of the corporation that owns the Kingfisher would probably be a focus to determine the ships working area.
Probably 5 minutes work total.
3) Going to note that the Library does not have the influence to do anything about malevolent spirits in the networks of other countries. They have enough trouble getting US politicians and agencies to listen.
Odin, OTOH, probably does. If nothing else, he has access to supernaturals who will take direct action.
VOTE
[X] Ask Odin what he's looking for
This entire tangent started with Evil Bob targeting one of his Valkyries.
The bad guys know what he's looking for, so its not a secret if it ever was.
Might as well cut the bullshit and ask. Use some of that superhuman social to our benefit.
Also, he has influence in nations where the Library does not, whether as Donnar Vadderung or as Odin/Kris Kringle.
So he's probably the only option for tackling, say, the Russian infiltration.
[X] Ask Odin what he's looking for
This entire tangent started with Evil Bob targeting one of his Valkyries.
The bad guys know what he's looking for, so its not a secret if it ever was.
Might as well cut the bullshit and ask. Use some of that superhuman social to our benefit.
Also, he has influence in nations where the Library does not, whether as Donnar Vadderung or as Odin/Kris Kringle.
So he's probably the only option for tackling, say, the Russian infiltration.
Last edited:
We don't want him to know we know he's working on this, or at least I don't want him to.
I think more exalts would be a bad thing for the quest, but I'd rather we get control than anyone else.
He's a on our end of the spectrum, but in this he's also a competitor.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
And he works under Winter at least some of the time with that Kris Kringle Mantle.
[X] Setting Sail
Not especially.
The bad guys already know about this, so the primary goal of secrecy is removed.
And we really dont want it falling into bad guy hands.
Its not like we are about to attempt to try to snipe it out from under Monoc.
Not when we have a working relationship and still want to be taught the Path of Soulfire.
Furthermore, I have argued that this isnt an Exaltation, and fails to bear any of the hallmarks of one.
And if it was, he(and we) would get no say about its choice of host. Thats not how Celestial Exaltations work; a key feature has always been that neither gods nor other Exalts get a say in their choices.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Instead of asking him outright, why not tell him what we've learned about Nega-Bob's operation targeting him? We can always ask him afterward, but telling him what's going on nets us more information and might prompt him to share without us trying to pry it out of him, as unlikely as that might be.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Feel free to make your opinion known but don't try to speak with authority on what "we" will do please. Your vote counts as one, like everybody else's. Notice that people want to use ATP.
I don't really think we can choose the host ourselves, but I don't want anyone else trying either.
I'd absolutely snipe it out from under Odin to make sure of it.
Yeah, thank you, corrected.
Not that I know of, I'll have to look more into this. Because if there's no actual command component to the Geas, this would slot neatly into my own assertion that exaltations can be directed to specific hosts, and were designed like this from the start.
I know that you can't read my answer but... Can someone, anyone finally provide any citations on that? As far as I can see, this is a pervasive fanon with exactly zero basis in the text. Like "Endbringers have exponentially increasing density" (it's actually durability) and other such things.
110% We will be sniping it from out of Odin. Exaltations are too valuable. The more we have aligned in the single circle, the more weight we have to get more. It's a question of amassing an insurmountable advantage.
Even if you don't buy the general rule, if this is a lunar exaltation we'll probably have intense difficulty ordering it around anyway.
The whole thing with the tattoos and obsessive focus on independence wasn't a property of first age lunars, it was an adaptation to the trauma of dealing with how first age solars treated them.
Somehow I don't think a raw lunar spark would react well to a Solaroid trying to screw with it.
That depends very strongly on a number of factors, such as if we are its solar mate. One should also distinguish lunar exalted culture and functions of lunar exaltation shards.
The biggest issue with a lunar shard is that we don't really have any good candidates for it. The Lunar shards prefer the following:
I'm not sure we have anyone like that on standby. Molly herself prior to exalting would have worked. Other than that? Charity maybe, but only a tentative maybe. Murphy would have worked in canon, but not here, where she is in position of power and has support. Rosie is too low WP to exalt. Daniel is an ideal solar candidate, but not a lunar one.
Assuming for a moment we get to choose - who do we choose from?
EDIT: Actually, Susan would work well.
Last edited:
- Location
- Germany
I still think it's hubris even for Exalted to think you can choose who gets an Exaltation.
Why? No, seriously, why? During First Age Solar deliberative barred slave races from exalting by political degree. During the Primordial War it was common for Lytek to directly implant exaltations (and some past life data as XP bonus) into prepared mortal volunteers immediately after the previous host died. Luna selected at least one canon Lunar directly. Whether Sol directly chooses his priest caste exalts or if it's just a vision is left ambiguous - it's quite possible that he's directly choosing specific people. All Abyssals in E2 were hand-picked, no randomness involved at all. To a degree, all Infernals were also hand-picked. You can have Destiny: to exalt as a mechanically relevant background in E2, which grants you bonus dice and generates situations for you to exalt in.
On the other hand, I wasn't able to find even a single bit of canon text that says "you cannot / it is overwhelmingly hard to direct exaltation to a certain person". There's a ton of text that species that only certain people can act as hosts. That's true. Somehow dodging the requirements is an impossible feat, as I understand it. But choosing within the range of people who can catalyze the exaltation? That seems more like the designed way to do so, with random selection being a backup option.
Barring slave races from exaltation is not hard just introduce a mutation that renders their souls incompatible outright with the exaltation.
The reason the blessed races where called that is because despite having mutations they have the same chance of exalting as a regular human. The Exaltation has a known anti-mutation bias, probably to prevent the Primordial creating an offshoot race of human with mutation enforced loyalty/inability to exist without the primordial's blessing, something they could have done.
And it is explicit the gods have no control over who exalted or the primordial's would have simple ordered the gods to exalted people they wanted, something they would have been forced to do if possible. Luna chooses to visit every one of her exaltation's she does not have to. Same as Sol chooses to visit his Zenith, when they exalt, but almost never the Dawn caste.
Abysmal and infernal exaltation's have the same targeting as normal Solar shards. The Yozi and Neverborn are preventing the exaltation from reaching it target when it usually would, not choosing who get the exaltation, the exaltation still has to consider the person worthy in the first place.
The reason the blessed races where called that is because despite having mutations they have the same chance of exalting as a regular human. The Exaltation has a known anti-mutation bias, probably to prevent the Primordial creating an offshoot race of human with mutation enforced loyalty/inability to exist without the primordial's blessing, something they could have done.
And it is explicit the gods have no control over who exalted or the primordial's would have simple ordered the gods to exalted people they wanted, something they would have been forced to do if possible. Luna chooses to visit every one of her exaltation's she does not have to. Same as Sol chooses to visit his Zenith, when they exalt, but almost never the Dawn caste.
Abysmal and infernal exaltation's have the same targeting as normal Solar shards. The Yozi and Neverborn are preventing the exaltation from reaching it target when it usually would, not choosing who get the exaltation, the exaltation still has to consider the person worthy in the first place.
Last edited:
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
We could keep it locked away on Demonreach until we figure that out. DR is holding Exalted so it should manage just fine. I do think that putting it in Molly's soul world would be fine but I understand why people wouldn't want to risk that.
That's not what they did though. They passed a decree and told Lytek: do not exalt those from slave races. Here, citation (Exalted 2E - Dreams of the First Age - Book 2 (Lords of Creation) [revised], page 137):
Please, please, I beg of you - give me a citation!
Opening Scroll of Exalts, let's look at Abyssals. Right from the start:
The youngest member of her Circle, the Maiden of the
Mirthless Smile is also its cruelest and, alone among them,
deliberately sought the unholy power she now wields. The
Maiden was born in the outskirts of Thorns, the pampered
youngest daughter of a wealthy plantation owner. Even as a
toddler, there was something indeterminately wrong about
Shanku Kenda. She would stare at her slave nanny like she
stared at her toys. As soon as she could walk, her parents
began to find small animals she had captured and toyed
with, often still alive with various
organs half removed. First
it was mice and cats. Then her
brother went missing, only six at
the time and scarcely a year older
than her. He was never found.
But she learned. It wasn't
that anatomy itself interested her. She wasn't fascinated by
how things worked. Just by pain.
Kenda's nanny was the next to disappear when the girl
was strong enough by age 12 to carry out the murder. All the
while, Kenda's parents never suspected. They underestimated
her and bought her pretty dresses that she dutifully wore and
learned to clean the bloodstains from. Fooling them became
a game, and she planned a thousand different murders for
them that she managed to avoid only by venting her growing
resentment on other prey. In adolescence, she heard stories of
the conquest of Thorns and the Deathlord who now reigned
there, and in those stories, she finally found a hope bigger
than her next kill.
One night, Kenda decided it was time and butchered
her family. Her mother was the last to die with a look of
astonished horror on her face that makes the Maiden giggle
to this day. After setting fire to her childhood home, the
gawky teenager set out to find the Deathlord who would
become her master. He sensed her from afar, of course, and
was intrigued at this child who strode into darkness unafraid
and unburdened by conscience. And then he found something
else, something remarkable. The Neverborn already spoke to
her. The hissing murmur of their hate echoed in her head,
faintly but undeniably. Her Essence bore no sign of ghost
ancestry or necromantic contamination, leaving him at a loss
to explain her communion, but he was not about to argue
with an obvious sign from his masters. He met her personally
before she reached the edge of his domain, ordering her stop
and speak with him lest she be destroyed.
In the face of this great and terrible horror that was
neither so terrible nor great as she had hoped in her dreams,
Kenda smiled her perfect smile and walked on until his
glance seized her heart and dropped her in a convulsing
heap. Marveling at her dedication, if not so much at her
prudence, the Deathlord rescued her on the brink of her
last heartbeat with the offer of Exaltation. The tainted
power slid into her soul as neatly as if it had been crafted
for the purpose.
Since that night, she has served as the least subtle
instrument of the Mask of Winter's will, his mailed fist to
crush all who would gainsay him. If his Maiden is rash at
times and seldom sees the long-term benefit in postponing
her violence, at least he cannot fault her zeal. The time will
almost certainly come when the Deathlord must punish
her failure with torments even she cannot imagine, but the
withered vestiges of his compassion hope that time is yet far
off. He also fears the Neverborn have plans for the Maiden
that they have not shared with him, plans that may not even
involve him. Such plans cannot be good for anyone.
Mirthless Smile is also its cruelest and, alone among them,
deliberately sought the unholy power she now wields. The
Maiden was born in the outskirts of Thorns, the pampered
youngest daughter of a wealthy plantation owner. Even as a
toddler, there was something indeterminately wrong about
Shanku Kenda. She would stare at her slave nanny like she
stared at her toys. As soon as she could walk, her parents
began to find small animals she had captured and toyed
with, often still alive with various
organs half removed. First
it was mice and cats. Then her
brother went missing, only six at
the time and scarcely a year older
than her. He was never found.
But she learned. It wasn't
that anatomy itself interested her. She wasn't fascinated by
how things worked. Just by pain.
Kenda's nanny was the next to disappear when the girl
was strong enough by age 12 to carry out the murder. All the
while, Kenda's parents never suspected. They underestimated
her and bought her pretty dresses that she dutifully wore and
learned to clean the bloodstains from. Fooling them became
a game, and she planned a thousand different murders for
them that she managed to avoid only by venting her growing
resentment on other prey. In adolescence, she heard stories of
the conquest of Thorns and the Deathlord who now reigned
there, and in those stories, she finally found a hope bigger
than her next kill.
One night, Kenda decided it was time and butchered
her family. Her mother was the last to die with a look of
astonished horror on her face that makes the Maiden giggle
to this day. After setting fire to her childhood home, the
gawky teenager set out to find the Deathlord who would
become her master. He sensed her from afar, of course, and
was intrigued at this child who strode into darkness unafraid
and unburdened by conscience. And then he found something
else, something remarkable. The Neverborn already spoke to
her. The hissing murmur of their hate echoed in her head,
faintly but undeniably. Her Essence bore no sign of ghost
ancestry or necromantic contamination, leaving him at a loss
to explain her communion, but he was not about to argue
with an obvious sign from his masters. He met her personally
before she reached the edge of his domain, ordering her stop
and speak with him lest she be destroyed.
In the face of this great and terrible horror that was
neither so terrible nor great as she had hoped in her dreams,
Kenda smiled her perfect smile and walked on until his
glance seized her heart and dropped her in a convulsing
heap. Marveling at her dedication, if not so much at her
prudence, the Deathlord rescued her on the brink of her
last heartbeat with the offer of Exaltation. The tainted
power slid into her soul as neatly as if it had been crafted
for the purpose.
Since that night, she has served as the least subtle
instrument of the Mask of Winter's will, his mailed fist to
crush all who would gainsay him. If his Maiden is rash at
times and seldom sees the long-term benefit in postponing
her violence, at least he cannot fault her zeal. The time will
almost certainly come when the Deathlord must punish
her failure with torments even she cannot imagine, but the
withered vestiges of his compassion hope that time is yet far
off. He also fears the Neverborn have plans for the Maiden
that they have not shared with him, plans that may not even
involve him. Such plans cannot be good for anyone.
It holds exalted akuma. It's not designed to hold the shards themselves. Something to consider at least, I think, but I would probably trust Molly's worldbody a bit more than Demonreach. If nothing else, her people should be eligible, and there are plenty enough chances in the Courts to exalt as a Lunar in the Wastes.
Vote closed.