Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

[uju32]

isn't tracking or thaumaturgy which often involves tracking literally dresdens specialty?

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It is yes.
And its worth trying. But we do have to figure out what Namshiel is doing here.
That means trying to interrogate Peabody or the warlocks.

The text doesn't support your supposition at all.

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I dont agree.But this is not the time for this conversation.

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VOTE
[X] Interrogate one of the warlocks
-[X] The two who surrendered
-[X]Molly: Cha 4 + Empathy 5 + Excellency 9 + Stunt 2 + All Things Betray: 1m, 1WP
-[X]Sophia: Man 4 + Empathy 5 + Sirens Veil 2 + Ubermensch 4 + Secret of Gaia 1: 5WP
-[X]Lydia: Akashic Root Methodology if possible: 1m
-[X]STUNT: "The demon lord was opportunism, Wizard Mai" you interrupt, drawing eyes and attention away from Tiffany. "This entire...."you hunt for a word, before settling on "affair was not. Premature, but premeditated. One of the Thirty would not simply linger in Edinburgh on the off-chance of something turning up." You rise from your seat, wordlessly beckoning the others to follow, as you head for the cells, grabbing a bottle of water with you. "To have a Knight of the Order of the Blackened Denarius" you continue, turning a corner "enter your Halls today of all days? And senior Council members going missing? Doesnt strike me as coincidence." You nod at the guards and wait until Morgan precedes you, then follow, invoking your anima banner as a crown of eyes on your brow."Hello wizards" you address the warlocks inside. "I have questions."



RATIONALE
ATB for -3DC to Perception rolls
Secret of Gaia for +1 to non-combat rolls and -3DC to Perception rolls
BSM for -1DC to rolls for both Molly and Sophia.



I would prefer to interrogate Peabody.
But the problem is that a conscious Peabody could do anything from committing suicide(and potentially getting LaFortier killed) to letting the Hollow Man see through his eyes to activating any number of contingencies.

So its probably better to take the lower risk option and talk to the warlocks while leaving Peabody unconscious.

We can offer inducements like looking out for their families; Warlock 3(Seamus) is supposed to be married according to Morgan, which means a probably living spouse.
Maybe even kids.

 

[Azais]

[X] Yog

[X] uju32

 

[Ivar]

[X] Reveal that you've divined it's him (Opposed Wits Occult rolls to come up with a plausible means you might have done that)
-[X] Obfuscate the means of divination by revealing (edited) version of your investigation into Gorfel's brotherhood over the last half a year
--[X] Use relevant excellency (probably subterfuge)

 

[BoredMan]

@DragonParadox When Molly discovered the Fallen's involvement did that trigger the Urge?

Oh also I really like the idea of not even addressing Mai catching Tiffany in a lie. We aren't obligated to explain anything. Rather than even entertain that line of questioning (Ancient Mai has wits 5 to our 3) I'd rather course correct to the shit show we are currently helping them with and ignore the wizard trying to be nosey about our sources.

It's getting really tiresome.

[X] uju32

 

[Azais]

@DragonParadox When Molly discovered the Fallen's involvement did that trigger the Urge?

Oh also I really like the idea of not even addressing Mai catching Tiffany in a lie. We aren't obligated to explain anything. Rather than even entertain that line of questioning (Ancient Mai has wits 5 to our 3) I'd rather course correct to the shit show we are currently helping them with and ignore the wizard trying to be nosey about our sources.

It's getting really tiresome.

[X] uju32

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I liked this take, I'm also getting tired of having to explain our sources.

[X] uju32

 

[Degorium]

I'd rather course correct to the shit show we are currently helping them with and ignore the wizard trying to be nosey about our sources.

It's getting really tiresome.

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Wait a second, that's completely right.

[X] Pretend like you didn't hear the question. "So what's the plan to deal with the Denerian, Now That we've captured their warlock allies and put down their undead abominations."

 

[BoredMan]

I liked this take, I'm also getting tired of having to explain our sources.

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On that note I've got a lot more respect for McCoy after this.

After hearing Molly say those names of the traitors he didn't ask how we knew. He instead pointed out that we've proven ourselves to be trustworthy, warned us that other people would have questions, then ignored his wizardly urge to inquire about it to instead focus on the task we've been going out of our way and putting our people at risk to help them with.

 

[BoredMan]

Wait a second, that's completely right.

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Yeah.. We should consider the optics here.


Molly is the undisputed Queen of the Five Fold Courts. They shouldn't be aware of that small rebellion of dissenters we haven't addressed yet.


Tiffany is one of the Queen's known close associates. Said Queen is standing right there. If she doesn't want to disclose her sources then she doesn't want to disclose her sources. The reasoning for that could be any number of things but it isn't uncommon in Dresden Files for people to conceal such things even from allies. The WC has plenty of secrets of their own that they don't want getting out to allies or otherwise. The events of late serves as a reminder of the importance of infosec even.

If we mention the word divination however that gives them a much better idea of what's going on as it is in fact a form of divination at play here.

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From a diplomatic perspective it's arguable that she can't afford to make a scene here just to press us on it. Especially considering the current crisis and the fact that we aren't obligated to continue helping them.

They haven't payed or compensated us for this in anyway shape or form. We have our own reasons for being here of course but can fuck off whenever we like.

 

[fictionfan]

[X] Pretend like you didn't hear the question. "So what's the plan to deal with the Denerian, Now That we've captured their warlock allies and put down their undead abominations."

 

[TheGrape]

[X] uju32

Time and place, come on. The time to question the Demon Queen about her knowledge of the 3rd BBEG in your house is not when she's trying to help you guys survive said BBEG.

 

[DragonParadox]

Very nice reference by the QM here.

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I was wondering when someone would catch that when I mentioned Namshiel.

 

[DragonParadox]

@DragonParadox When Molly discovered the Fallen's involvement did that trigger the Urge?

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She did yeah, editing in Essence.

 

[BoredMan]

@DragonParadox From before.

 

[DragonParadox]

@DragonParadox From before.

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Fixed, thanks again.

 

[BoredMan]

@DragonParadox Some things missed and new errors.

Spoiler: In red

Sorry sir, there are vampires in the hall and they have some kind of glamor on them,

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You run though the names on your list

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wrought in the elegant shape of temple dogs built to titanic scale are alive and crawling at you

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That was definitely supposed to be growling.

though her gaze does linger for a moment on Thunder's Silent Arrow for a moment as she does so.

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It does not show itself openly, only to the Sight and it dreadful beyond what the eyes of the children can bear.

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That extra "it" you deleted before "dreadful" was supposed to be "is".

Carlos whispers from beside yo,

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past tense because they had tried to summon something powerful and in succeeding too well become the sacrifice to their own final spell.

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Became.

No wizard knows until the last how long their will might last in the face of death.

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"Until the last" what? Breath?

How likely is that."

"Before today I would have said impossible," Ancient May says.

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Question mark. Tiffany is asking a question.

When the False Dragon had tried to open tear the city asunder by the power of his broken stewardship

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Openly.

 

[uju32]

@DragonParadox When Molly discovered the Fallen's involvement did that trigger the Urge?

Oh also I really like the idea of not even addressing Mai catching Tiffany in a lie. We aren't obligated to explain anything. Rather than even entertain that line of questioning (Ancient Mai has wits 5 to our 3) I'd rather course correct to the shit show we are currently helping them with and ignore the wizard trying to be nosey about our sources.

It's getting really tiresome.

[X] uju32

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Point of order:
Ancient Mai did not catch Tiffany in a lie. Ancient Mai noticed Tiffany trying to distract from the fact that she had dropped more information than she had initially intended to.
Tiffany had wanted to say that there was a Denarian about, but she didnt want to say WHICH Denarian she thought it was.

I liked this take, I'm also getting tired of having to explain our sources.
[X] uju32

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On that note I've got a lot more respect for McCoy after this.

After hearing Molly say those names of the traitors he didn't ask how we knew. He instead pointed out that we've proven ourselves to be trustworthy, warned us that other people would have questions, then ignored his wizardly urge to inquire about it to instead focus on the task we've been going out of our way and putting our people at risk to help them with.

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To be fair, this isnt idle curiosity.

Mai and McCoy are not absolute autocrats, they are elected officials of a governing body acting on behalf of their electorate, and who will answer to them for their choices.Furthermore, they are having to operate alone, without the consensus of the other five members of the Senior Council who are all either missing or out of contact.

They will have to explain their decisionmaking both to their colleagues on the Council, and to wizards in the General Assembly.

Most of whom have no personal knowledge of Molly and only negative associations of the apparent Hell-Queen who has the only son of the White King as her business manager, a bunch of Whamps and ghouls in her retinue, and the only begotten daughter of a Fallen Angel in her Circle. And the infamous Harry Dresden as adviser.

Even assuming Molly's goodwill, they still know that people can be honestly wrong, and noone who is of any intelligence forgets that the White Court of vampires are great at soft influence and social games.
So its entirely reasonable for them to ask for more than just Molly's word before making decisions.

Just as its entirely within Molly's interests to decline to give specifics.
Its just that, if you want a nationstate's govt to make quick decisions, its usually necessary to give them sufficient evidence to make their own judgements/assessments.


Keep it in mind: they arent being nosy just to be dicks.

I was wondering when someone would catch that when I mentioned Namshiel.

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Heh.
I'll note that Thorned Namshiel is an apparent member of Polonessa Lartessa's faction of the Denarians according to Nicodemus, and specifically was/is responsible for teaching her and her lieutenant Denarian!Rosanna sorcery.

Also?
Usually when a major Fallen plot is in play, one or more Swords show up like a bad penny. The lack of either Sanya nor Michael raises one of several possibilities
1) This isnt a major Fallen plot
2) There is a major Fallen plot happening somewhere else drawing the attention of the Swords
3) Heaven decided Molly being on this case means that they can retask the Swords to other duties

Any one of these has troubling implications

 

[BoredMan]

Point of order:
Ancient Mai did not catch Tiffany in a lie. Ancient Mai noticed Tiffany trying to distract from the fact that she had dropped more information than she had initially intended to.
Tiffany had wanted to say that there was a Denarian about, but she didnt want to say WHICH Denarian she thought it was.

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It says she was lying. She was caught in a lie.

Rolls
Lash to Lie

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Edit:

and noone who is of any intelligence forgets that the White Court of vampires are great at soft influence and social games.

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Wait why are you talking about the White Court? They have nothing to do with us.

 

[DragonParadox]

It says she was lying. She was caught in a lie.



Edit:

Wait why are you talking about the White Court? They have nothing to do with us.

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The roll was subterfuge, that is why it's marked lie, but technically she has not spoken any untruths. It depends on how charitable you are feeling.

 

[Goldfish]

[X] uju32

 

[tenchifew]

[X] uju32

 

[Odysseus2099]

Wait why are you talking about the White Court? They have nothing to do with us.

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He's implying people think we're under the influence of the White Court cause we hired the White King's (allegedly!) exiled son to run our mundane businesses and they're reading more into that than there actually is.

 

[uju32]

It says she was lying. She was caught in a lie.

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Like the QM said, subterfuge, not lie.
She unintentionally name-dropped Namshiel when she didnt want to, then tried to distract from it.

Wait why are you talking about the White Court? They have nothing to do with us.

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Look at it from the PoV of an external observer, like any of the adult wizards who has passed through Last Station or been assigned to vet Molly.


Our business manager, the guy who runs the legal and financial side of Molly's Earthside operations, is Thomas Raith, brother of Lara Raith and only living son of the White King. Whampire ruling family.
"Allegedly" an outcast and exile, but still one with a lot of connections on the Whampire side.

One of the members of our entourage, and someone we go to school with, is Isabella Stylgia, who is the daughter of a prominent Skavis noble family. White Court outcasts from the Skavis and Malvora(but noticeably, not Raith) form a significant minority of the community at Last Station.

We are known to have been present at the White Court purge, and to have made a deal with Lara Raith to intervene on the Raith side. We personally killed the White King's nephew Madrigal Raith and were congratulated for it, and even got a movie studio out of the deal. Our associate Lydia Rhi took in the ex-spouse of a prominent White Court functionary as well.


To an external observer, we very much have a lot to do with the White Court, is what Im saying.
And our motivations for being so are unclear. Anyone who has seen Sanctuary or read the reports is going to assume its very much not an issue of our needing their power.

A suspicious wizard is going to wonder if the 18-year old girl is under the influence of a Whampire, whether its vampire magic, or just a Whampire being very charming and personable. Or just being naive about fixing monsters.
Daughter of a Knight or not.

The Merlin will know that Molly isnt sleeping with a sex vampire because he checked when we let him, but while he might tell the Senior Council, he isnt going to be telling Joe Q Random Wizard the confidential specifics of Molly's history, even though it informs his decisionmaking.

 

[uju32]

He's implying people think we're under the influence of the White Court cause we hired the White King's (allegedly!) exiled son to run our mundane businesses and they're reading more into that than there actually is.

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^^^
Its also worth noting that the first supernatural nationstate that Molly/Sanctuary has a formal treaty with is the White Court.
With Las Vegas and the Library being only the second.

We dont have formal treaties with Odin, Winter, Summer, the White Council, the Archive, any of the Yama Kings or the Church, even though most of them could pick up the phone and call, and Molly would respond.
People are definitely going to do their best to read stuff into that.

 

[BoredMan]

Like the QM said, subterfuge, not lie.
She unintentionally name-dropped Namshiel when she didnt want to, then tried to distract from it.

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I read that as her name dropping him on purpose so they'd know what they were getting into then trying to cover her reasoning for using his name in specific as it was Crown sourced. If someone is lying I'm not sure why subterfuge wouldn't be rolled? It means to deceive.

@DragonParadox It's not too important but now I'm wondering if Tiffany actually fumbled it or if she named dropped him on purpose for the reason described then tried to cover her source. Also this.

 

[DragonParadox]

I read that as her name dropping him on purpose so they'd know what they were getting into then trying to cover her reasoning for using his name in specific as it was Crown sourced. If someone is lying I'm not sure why subterfuge wouldn't be rolled? It means to deceive.

@DragonParadox It's not too important but now I'm wondering if Tiffany actually fumbled it or if she named dropped him on purpose for the reason described then tried to cover her source. Also this.

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Oh no, the point was to reveal who it was alongside a few decoys so the wizards would be ready for Namshiel, or as ready as anyone can be for him.